Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by MumboJumbo

This Thread: MMORPGs in diagrams

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Reference: User: Rokoto

That's a crazy weird way to look at things. For one, what does he mean by open World Interaction? Two, since this is social spheres, is he saying that the auction house crowd is a different social sphere from the PvE crowd? Three, if it's the social spheres, where do roleplaying, politics and metagaming fall into that?

Ahhh, have to drag my brain back to when last considering this. Off top of my head, I think it's mostly illustrative/top-level: Proportions, relationships between spheres of activity/interaction that are self-contained game systems but which also link to others (if sandbox). OWI, would be events or combinations of events from other spheres interacting with their sub-sets. Politics would be like this

eg Dungeons around the map and who owns this territory so who has access: Affects PvE, Crafters after rare materials and RP'ers adventuring?

Originally posted by MumboJumbo

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by MumboJumbo

This Thread: MMORPGs in diagrams

...

Reference: User: Rokoto

That's a crazy weird way to look at things. For one, what does he mean by open World Interaction? Two, since this is social spheres, is he saying that the auction house crowd is a different social sphere from the PvE crowd? Three, if it's the social spheres, where do roleplaying, politics and metagaming fall into that?

Ahhh, have to drag my brain back to when last considering this. Off top of my head, I think it's mostly illustrative/top-level: Proportions, relationships between spheres of activity/interaction that are self-contained game systems but which also link to others (if sandbox). OWI, would be events or combinations of events from other spheres interacting with their sub-sets. Politics would be like this

eg Dungeons around the map and who owns this territory so who has access: Affects PvE, Crafters after rare materials and RP'ers adventuring?

Interesting approach. Thanks for the info, Mumbo

TSW blurs the lines with sandbox crafting, leveless progression, and a classless system. You can't alter the game world, but they went a long way towards the middle ground. Further than what's been done before.

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Originally posted by learis1

My question is: Are they mutually exclusive?

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Yes, they are.

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Originally posted by Uhwop A real sandbox game will offer you everything that a themepark game offers. No, they aren't mutually exclusive.  One is just about giving you the freedom to exist in a virtual world, the other is about  moving through the virtual world on your way to "endgame".

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That's not true a sandbox is supposed to create the background so the players could create content that are not coded by the original developers, which is the difference with usual mmo where everything a player/user can do must be coded to begin with. This is how work the concept of sandbox in software development, you have a core any one can use or extend and change freely depending on his needs. Thus the name "sand box", the core is a box full of sand where the kids can do their own stuff.

In Uo to give a specific example they were a lot of class that were never coded by the developers like treasure hunters, there is no way that you would find "player made" class in a themepark is it, they have to be coded by the developers? There is a treasure hunter class class in lineage 2too  that is a themepark game, but the class is hard coded by the developers. In Uo players mixed the skills they could use and create a treasure hunter class because it was meant to hunt treasures. In L2 treasure hunter was not meant to hunt treasures at all, it was just the name given to a rogue kind of class.

This page is not very informative and probably a bit hard to understand but it still give you hint on what is a sandbox from a developer point of view rather than aplayer point of view that don't know much about those things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandbox_%28software_development%29

As you see in this article they use Wikipedia as an example of sandbox because the users can make or change the articles themselves, a non sandbox online encyclopedia forbid that. So there is no chance a non sandbox game offer the same things a normal game do, even if both are games, or both are encyclopedia. It is a question of concept behind the software, do you allow your players to change your game or not, so it is an on off switch from that point of view, and that is why they are considered as exclusive.

Originally posted by Requiamer

That's not true a sandbox is supposed to create the background so the players could create content that are not coded by the original developers, which is the difference with usual mmo where everything a player/user can do must be coded to begin with.

 That is 100% false.

A game can have a storyline you must follow while in an open world with plenty of tools for players to create their own content. That storyline CAN be done in a way without levels or even without streamlining the world to FIT only that story. A game having a...phase or instanced raid/dungeon...does not mean the game cannot also have sandbox open features.

City of Heroes could very well be called sandbox because you are free to level as you please as well as use their tools to create your own quests and even a character or guild driven storylines that anyone can play.

By your definition, SWG did not actually become a sandbox until they added the guild tools to create content....because afterall you did say "a sandbox is supposed to create the background so the players could CREATE content that are NOT CODED BY THE DEVELOPERS".

Wow, thanks for all the informative responses, definitely opened my eyes up to more of the differences between sandbox and theme park. 

I guess, I'm gonna try and hit the nail on the head now with my question:

Is there any aspects/rules that define a sandbox that a theme-park is incapable/not allowed at having? Vice versa? 

Try this sticked thread above: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/317478/Sandbox-vs-Themepark-Discussion-Thread.html