Originally posted by p_c_sousa

Originally posted by Fusion

Originally posted by letsxhat

I don't think there is any question gw2's cash shop blurrs if not crosses the line. I expect there will be many systems in place and added that steers people to the shop pretty aggressively.  At the same time, it's what you should expect from a B2P game. They have to keep make money to keep making content.

And this is what makes p2p games lot more appealing to me, they cost a steady amount monthly and i know i get everything for that same price.. cash shops can and will escalate to hundreds of dollars a month if you want everything there is to be have..

you obvious dont know the diference between B2P game and F2P game. on B2P game you pay the game and have acess to everything on game, dont understand your point

btw, even P2P have cash shop and still have to buy expansions....

Some have (but most don't) and the items there are pure fluff, like clothing, sparkling ponys etc. unlike here, these are gameplay affecting items to the core

ps. you don't have access to everything for the box price in GW1 or 2 which are both B2P games... maybe you should think before blurting stuff outta your mouth..

pps. don't start with the "gem <-> gold" stuff, someone STILL has paid for those gems in the first place.

Originally posted by friednietz

 That is worrisome. Now that GW2 is built side-by-side with the cash shop, Anet is pushing the boundary.

At the end of the day everyone thinks that they will just do so well in the game that they can accumulate tons of gold to trade for gems regularly. I don't think there will be a large gem supply. Those that do lay down the cash will be winning in leveling, in crafting, in karma rewards, in acquiring rare stuff and thus a lot of gold.

So what does the person who doesn't pay for gems have to offer the spenders? Nothing imo and there goes any daydreams of everyone having an oppurtunity to access everything.

Fortunately in all competative aspects of the game (PvP) have level and ability normalization making any PvE advantage pointless. Players can at level 1 enter the mists, get PvP equipment, and play instanced PvP at the same exact level and gear quality as someone who has spent 6 months gearing up in PvE. In WvW a lv 1 can instantly turn into lv80... However, they will have to take some time (maybe 4 - 10 hours) opening up their weapon abilities to the point they are competative. They can then spend every second of their game experience in WvW until they reach lv 80, max traits, and get some of the best gear in the game which will give them minor boosts, but not huge competative advantages from when they first entered WvW. 

So other than PvP... what exactly are you complaining about? Someone can max out crafting faster? Someone can hit lv 80 slightly faster in PvE (pointless in PvP)? How is the sky falling again?

Originally posted by Fusion

Originally posted by p_c_sousa

Originally posted by Fusion

Originally posted by letsxhat

I don't think there is any question gw2's cash shop blurrs if not crosses the line. I expect there will be many systems in place and added that steers people to the shop pretty aggressively.  At the same time, it's what you should expect from a B2P game. They have to keep make money to keep making content.

And this is what makes p2p games lot more appealing to me, they cost a steady amount monthly and i know i get everything for that same price.. cash shops can and will escalate to hundreds of dollars a month if you want everything there is to be have..

you obvious dont know the diference between B2P game and F2P game. on B2P game you pay the game and have acess to everything on game, dont understand your point

btw, even P2P have cash shop and still have to buy expansions....

Some have (but most don't) and the items there are pure fluff, like clothing, sparkling ponys etc. unlike here, these are game affecting items to the core

ps. you don't have access to everything in GW1 or 2 which are both B2P games... maybe you should think before blurting stuff outta your mouth..

Please, enlighten us. What do we not have access to in GW1 and to what will we not have access in GW2.

Originally posted by udon

Originally posted by gaeanprayer

Originally posted by udon

Originally posted by gaeanprayer

Originally posted by colddog04

*snip*

I would 100% agree with you if it wasnt for a few items in the GW2 item mall.  I don't like the keys you can buy for gems that open chests that drop in game.  Noboby but Anet knows what the drop ratio of keys to chests in game will be but I would bet it's not 1 to 1 and even if it is for beta it's a very simple change to make.  The crafting stuff also bothers me a bit but again it depends on the ratio of in game to cash shop drop rates are set.  Finally a few of the potions bug me.

I have seen what cash shops do to games.  Can you honestly sit there and say that the GW2 cash shop has not influanced design decisions in the game from zones layout, leveling speed, drop rates, to monster design?  And do you honestly believe those decisions where based on whats best for you or whats best for Anet's bottom line?

Yes, I can honestly say that.

Keys - bunch droped, bought more in beta cuz I had left-over money, never got a single thing from those chests worth having. They're temporary food buffs that more often than not, I threw away because they were clogging my inventory.

Crafting - Didn't need the cash shop at all the end up the most overpowered person there in WvWvW, because I took the time to level my character and craft myself full mastercraft level 30 gear, which is better than ~anything~ that dropped.

Leveling speed - nearly 31 in 2.5 days with a flat leveling curve = me laughing hysterically at anyone impatient enough to buy an EXP potion.

Drop rates - Already mentioned, but I ended up with more than enough drops (if anything, too many, which is why the first thing I crafted were larger bags) to craft everything I needed and still more money than I knew what to do with at the end of the beta, which is why I threw it at the gems. I bought a Tophat <3

Monster design/zone layout - No clue where you're going with this one.

Best for the bottom line - I'd be a fool to think Anet doesn't care about the bottom line. However, many of the things that WOULD have helped their bottom line were removed at the request of players, everything from world shouts to ress stones. Do you have any idea how much money they could have made off of them? Gone, players didn't like them. Anet cares about the bottom line, but they're also smart enough to realize that people will spend MORE money if they actually like the company. The less pressured you feel to spend money, the looser you are with your wallet.

At the moment, at the very least,  they are attempting to have a legit item mall and, considering other games are trying and succeeding at it (Lineage 2, Aion, etc) it seems there's precedent for it. Have their been item malls that destroyed a game? Absolutely. I played Perfect World and Rappelz for years, I know how bad item malls can be. And because of that, I can see how bad GW2's item mall is not. Could it get to that point eventually? Yes, and I hope it never does, but I can't nor am I going to attempt to crucify a company on what they could do in the future as opposed to what they're doing right now.

-where's my delete reply button-

Originally posted by Connmacart

Originally posted by Fusion

Originally posted by p_c_sousa

Originally posted by Fusion

Originally posted by letsxhat

I don't think there is any question gw2's cash shop blurrs if not crosses the line. I expect there will be many systems in place and added that steers people to the shop pretty aggressively.  At the same time, it's what you should expect from a B2P game. They have to keep make money to keep making content.

And this is what makes p2p games lot more appealing to me, they cost a steady amount monthly and i know i get everything for that same price.. cash shops can and will escalate to hundreds of dollars a month if you want everything there is to be have..

you obvious dont know the diference between B2P game and F2P game. on B2P game you pay the game and have acess to everything on game, dont understand your point

btw, even P2P have cash shop and still have to buy expansions....

Some have (but most don't) and the items there are pure fluff, like clothing, sparkling ponys etc. unlike here, these are game affecting items to the core

ps. you don't have access to everything in GW1 or 2 which are both B2P games... maybe you should think before blurting stuff outta your mouth..

Please, enlighten us. What do we not have access to in GW1 and to what will we not have access in GW2.

 

For the box price.

All available bank tabs and bagslots for starters.

-Would you like to know more?-

Originally posted by Fusion

Some have (but most don't) and the items there are pure fluff, like clothing, sparkling ponys etc. unlike here, these are gameplay affecting items to the core

ps. you don't have access to everything for the box price in GW1 or 2 which are both B2P games... maybe you should think before blurting stuff outta your mouth..

pps. don't start with the "gem <-> gold" stuff, someone STILL has paid for those gems in the first place.

As had been stated before a large number of P2P games either went completely to a CS model or incorporated one while still requiring a sub. What exactly in the GW1 and GW2 CS is not fluff?

edit* as you have responded. Bank slots and bag slots are nice to have, but not necessary. 

right click on crafting material to send them to your bank craft tab anywhere in the world. 

Instantly transport anywhere in the world right to a city bank for not craft items.

The number of bag slots allow for well over 60 spaces when you add top tiered crafted bags (which can be done at no additional cost).

So the bag and bank space is a convenience not a must have. Try again.

Originally posted by Fusion

Originally posted by Connmacart

Originally posted by Fusion

Originally posted by p_c_sousa

Originally posted by Fusion

Originally posted by letsxhat

I don't think there is any question gw2's cash shop blurrs if not crosses the line. I expect there will be many systems in place and added that steers people to the shop pretty aggressively.  At the same time, it's what you should expect from a B2P game. They have to keep make money to keep making content.

And this is what makes p2p games lot more appealing to me, they cost a steady amount monthly and i know i get everything for that same price.. cash shops can and will escalate to hundreds of dollars a month if you want everything there is to be have..

you obvious dont know the diference between B2P game and F2P game. on B2P game you pay the game and have acess to everything on game, dont understand your point

btw, even P2P have cash shop and still have to buy expansions....

Some have (but most don't) and the items there are pure fluff, like clothing, sparkling ponys etc. unlike here, these are game affecting items to the core

ps. you don't have access to everything in GW1 or 2 which are both B2P games... maybe you should think before blurting stuff outta your mouth..

Please, enlighten us. What do we not have access to in GW1 and to what will we not have access in GW2.

 

 

All available bank tabs and bagslots for starters.

-Would you like to know more?-

All bank tabs are available as was the standard for YEARS in GW1. The additional, purchaseable bank tabs weren't added until after Nightfall, years after everyone had been living with the same amount of bank space. The expansions are already covered, and other than costumes, everything else is available in-game. So sure, keep going.

Originally posted by Fusion

All available bank tabs and bag slots for starters.. and they don't come cheap, want more?

ROFL you get a similar amount to any competative MMO out there, the extra slots are just that extra. It's fluff nothing more, try harder. You are grasping at straws and you know it.

Originally posted by Connmacart

Originally posted by Fusion

All available bank tabs and bag slots for starters.. and they don't come cheap, want more?

ROFL you get a similar amount to any competative MMO out there, the extra slots are just that extra. It's fluff nothing more, try harder. You are grasping at straws and you know it.

There's 7 bagslots in the game, but 3 are locked, thus not accessible by box price only, same with 1 banktab (30 slots for the entire account really?) 7 unlockable.

I don't see why you're defending the cash shop so furiously.

Originally posted by Fusion

There's 7 bagslots in the game, but 3 are locked, thus not accessible by box price only, same with banktab (30 slots really?)

I don't see why you're defending the cash shop so furiously.

Perhaps you have not heard about the collections tab which stores (free up your banks slots)

• Common crafting materials
• Cooking materials
• Mini Pets Alpha
• Heavy PvP Armor Rewards
• Light PvP Armor Rewards
• Medium PvP Armor Rewards
• Creature Codex Library

Originally posted by gaeanprayer

Originally posted by udon

Originally posted by gaeanprayer

Originally posted by udon

Originally posted by gaeanprayer

Originally posted by colddog04

*snip*

I would 100% agree with you if it wasnt for a few items in the GW2 item mall.  I don't like the keys you can buy for gems that open chests that drop in game.  Noboby but Anet knows what the drop ratio of keys to chests in game will be but I would bet it's not 1 to 1 and even if it is for beta it's a very simple change to make.  The crafting stuff also bothers me a bit but again it depends on the ratio of in game to cash shop drop rates are set.  Finally a few of the potions bug me.

I have seen what cash shops do to games.  Can you honestly sit there and say that the GW2 cash shop has not influanced design decisions in the game from zones layout, leveling speed, drop rates, to monster design?  And do you honestly believe those decisions where based on whats best for you or whats best for Anet's bottom line?

Yes, I can honestly say that.

Keys - bunch droped, bought more in beta cuz I had left-over money, never got a single thing from those chests worth having. They're temporary food buffs that more often than not, I threw away because they were clogging my inventory.

Crafting - Didn't need the cash shop at all the end up the most overpowered person there in WvWvW, because I took the time to level my character and craft myself full mastercraft level 30 gear, which is better than ~anything~ that dropped.

Leveling speed - nearly 31 in 2.5 days with a flat leveling curve = me laughing hysterically at anyone impatient enough to buy an EXP potion.

Drop rates - Already mentioned, but I ended up with more than enough drops (if anything, too many, which is why the first thing I crafted were larger bags) to craft everything I needed and still more money than I knew what to do with at the end of the beta, which is why I threw it at the gems. I bought a Tophat <3

Monster design/zone layout - No clue where you're going with this one.

Best for the bottom line - I'd be a fool to think Anet doesn't care about the bottom line. However, many of the things that WOULD have helped their bottom line were removed at the request of players, everything from world shouts to ress stones. Do you have any idea how much money they could have made off of them? Gone, players didn't like them. Anet cares about the bottom line, but they're also smart enough to realize that people will spend MORE money if they actually like the company. The less pressured you feel to spend money, the looser you are with your wallet.

At the moment, at the very least,  they are attempting to have a legit item mall and, considering other games are trying and succeeding at it (Lineage 2, Aion, etc) it seems there's precedent for it. Have their been item malls that destroyed a game? Absolutely. I played Perfect World and Rappelz for years, I know how bad item malls can be. And because of that, I can see how bad GW2's item mall is not. Could it get to that point eventually? Yes, and I hope it never does, but I can't nor am I going to attempt to crucify a company on what they could do in the future as opposed to what they're doing right now.

Originally posted by atziluth

Originally posted by Fusion

There's 7 bagslots in the game, but 3 are locked, thus not accessible by box price only, same with banktab (30 slots really?)

I don't see why you're defending the cash shop so furiously.

Perhaps you have not heard about the collections tab which stores (free up your banks slots)

 

• Common crafting materials
• Cooking materials
• Mini Pets Alpha
• Heavy PvP Armor Rewards
• Light PvP Armor Rewards
• Medium PvP Armor Rewards
• Creature Codex Library

Yes but the bagspace and storage that is locked you have to buy that...

If me making 2 posts, now 3, is defending it furiously than I don't want to know what you call it if I was actually doing it.

You can buy gems with gold so anything in the CS is available to anyone that plays. How is that so hard to understand. I'm not going to spend a cent in the CS and if lucky will be able to buy expansions from it. You are the one furiously trying to find flaws where there are none, Fusion.

Originally posted by atziluth

Originally posted by Fusion

There's 7 bagslots in the game, but 3 are locked, thus not accessible by box price only, same with banktab (30 slots really?)

I don't see why you're defending the cash shop so furiously.

Perhaps you have not heard about the collections tab which stores (free up your banks slots)

 

• Common crafting materials
• Cooking materials
• Mini Pets Alpha
• Heavy PvP Armor Rewards
• Light PvP Armor Rewards
• Medium PvP Armor Rewards
• Creature Codex Library

I've heard (and witnessed), but that doesn't help when you got half-done cooking stuff you need to prepare for later use and so on, like tangy sautee mix etc.

Originally posted by Connmacart

Originally posted by atziluth

Originally posted by Fusion

There's 7 bagslots in the game, but 3 are locked, thus not accessible by box price only, same with banktab (30 slots really?)

I don't see why you're defending the cash shop so furiously.

Perhaps you have not heard about the collections tab which stores (free up your banks slots)

 

• Common crafting materials
• Cooking materials
• Mini Pets Alpha
• Heavy PvP Armor Rewards
• Light PvP Armor Rewards
• Medium PvP Armor Rewards
• Creature Codex Library

Yes but the bagspace and storage that is locked you have to buy that...

If me making 2 posts, now 3, is defending it furiously than I don't want to know what you call it if I was actually doing it.

You can buy gems with gold so anything in the CS is available to anyone that plays. How is that so hard to understand. I'm not going to spend a cent in the CS and if lucky will be able to buy expansions from it. You are the one furiously trying to find flaws where there are none, Fusion.

Good luck with buying gems for ingame gold, amuses me to know that some of you really think that people will sell their gems (bought with RL currency) cheap, you'll be still grinding gold when im already in the ground :)

Originally posted by Fusion

Originally posted by Connmacart

Originally posted by Fusion

All available bank tabs and bag slots for starters.. and they don't come cheap, want more?

ROFL you get a similar amount to any competative MMO out there, the extra slots are just that extra. It's fluff nothing more, try harder. You are grasping at straws and you know it.

There's 7 bagslots in the game, but 3 are locked, thus not accessible by box price only, same with 1 banktab (30 slots for the entire account really?) 7 unlockable.

I don't see why you're defending the cash shop so furiously.

you could even had only 5 bags that dont matter on GW2.  loool. do some research before talk, see how bag and bank slots work on GW2. 

you can sell stuff from bad imediatly on market, you can send craft materials imediatly to a special section on your bank, you can spend 5s and do a instant travel and sell everything you have on your bags....

Originally posted by Connmacart

Originally posted by atziluth

Originally posted by Fusion

There's 7 bagslots in the game, but 3 are locked, thus not accessible by box price only, same with banktab (30 slots really?)

I don't see why you're defending the cash shop so furiously.

Perhaps you have not heard about the collections tab which stores (free up your banks slots)

 

• Common crafting materials
• Cooking materials
• Mini Pets Alpha
• Heavy PvP Armor Rewards
• Light PvP Armor Rewards
• Medium PvP Armor Rewards
• Creature Codex Library

Yes but the bagspace and storage that is locked you have to buy that...

If me making 2 posts, now 3, is defending it furiously than I don't want to know what you call it if I was actually doing it.

You can buy gems with gold so anything in the CS is available to anyone that plays. How is that so hard to understand. I'm not going to spend a cent in the CS and if lucky will be able to buy expansions from it. You are the one furiously trying to find flaws where there are none, Fusion.

This has been said many times before.  Do you think ANET gives a rat's ass if you buy Gems for cash or for gold from another player that bought them for cash?  Every GEM you buy is either for real cash direct from you or real cash from another player.  The cash is the same for ANET and as long as you keep buying stuff off the gem store regradless how you get the gems you are encouraging more and more powerful items being added to it.  How long before we end up with a Feringi battle cruiser exclusivly in the cash shop?  Or at least it's GW2 equivilent.

Originally posted by Fusion

Originally posted by Connmacart

Originally posted by atziluth

Originally posted by Fusion

There's 7 bagslots in the game, but 3 are locked, thus not accessible by box price only, same with banktab (30 slots really?)

I don't see why you're defending the cash shop so furiously.

Perhaps you have not heard about the collections tab which stores (free up your banks slots)

 

• Common crafting materials
• Cooking materials
• Mini Pets Alpha
• Heavy PvP Armor Rewards
• Light PvP Armor Rewards
• Medium PvP Armor Rewards
• Creature Codex Library

Yes but the bagspace and storage that is locked you have to buy that...

If me making 2 posts, now 3, is defending it furiously than I don't want to know what you call it if I was actually doing it.

You can buy gems with gold so anything in the CS is available to anyone that plays. How is that so hard to understand. I'm not going to spend a cent in the CS and if lucky will be able to buy expansions from it. You are the one furiously trying to find flaws where there are none, Fusion.

Good luck with buying gems for ingame gold, amuses me to know that some of you really think that people will sell their gems (bought with RL currency) cheap, you'll be grinding gold when im already a grandad :)

loool. forget i give up with this guy...

Hold on, that's only the second best salvage kit, while the best is currently only available for purchase at the cost of 25 silver in game, no? All subject to change of course.

This is an item currently available for 35 gems (while most other items are between 100-800 gems), valued snugly between an item for 15 silver and the better one for 25 silver, and people are really that concerned? 

Step back, look at the whole picture, if you truly feel you comprehend how the gem store works and what ArenNet are aiming for as a balance point and still really feel this is truly scandalous, simply find a game that suits you better. 

I've yet to see anything that outright gives a statistical advantage and that can't be gained through in game play as well as through gems, their gem shop is incredibly reserved.

I see convenience, fluff, and some pretty sensationalist stretches to paint them as pay to win.

I couldn't receive my gems in the 1st BWE due to a mail bug while my friend was able to claim the free 2000 gems and spent them all, if that was giving him an advantage it's not worth paying for as he still couldn't beat me 1v1.

Nah, this is another example of people attempting to turn the mundane into something more.

It might be slightly noteworthy at best if the best kit could only be bought by spending real cash, that isn't the best kit and you can get it without spending cash. What else is there to say about it (that's actually worth saying)?

Originally posted by p_c_sousa

Originally posted by Fusion

Originally posted by Connmacart

Originally posted by Fusion

All available bank tabs and bag slots for starters.. and they don't come cheap, want more?

ROFL you get a similar amount to any competative MMO out there, the extra slots are just that extra. It's fluff nothing more, try harder. You are grasping at straws and you know it.

There's 7 bagslots in the game, but 3 are locked, thus not accessible by box price only, same with 1 banktab (30 slots for the entire account really?) 7 unlockable.

I don't see why you're defending the cash shop so furiously.

you could even had only 5 bags that dont matter on GW2.  loool. do some research before talk, see how bag and bank slots work on GW2. 

you can sell stuff from bad imediatly on market, you can send craft materials imediatly to a special section on your bank, you can spend 5s and do a instant travel and sell everything you have on your bags....

 

What are you on bro? I have the pre-purchase, i have been in the game. So you don't need to tell me what i know and don't know.