Something I only became aware of only the past few weeks. The more I started visiting this site, the more I realised how odd mmorpg.com is in community compared to some other gaming sites and forums I visit.

For one, I don't think I've seen a site where WoW is so much and heavily detested as here. Let alone other themepark MMO's, which are despised, hated and trashed even worse.

At the same time there's the non-stop consistent, almost ecstatic praise and love for sandbox MMO's and that's when it hit me: mmorpg.com is where the sandbox MMO gamers gather, in far larger numbers than any other gaming or MMO site!

Not completely what I'd expected, I assumed the mmorpg.com community would be more like on other forums and sites or the general MMO playerbase, but seeing as how WoW is reviled here yet still played by millions and millions, that doesn't seem to be the case.

But in a way it makes sense: after all, many people come here who're bored and don't really have an MMO to play, and if there's one group who're most likely out of MMO's to play or have fun in, then it's the pure sandbox MMO crowd. So it stands to reason that those are most likely to not be playing MMO's but to hang around MMO forums.

Heck, it's how I ended up here myself, I knew of mmorpg.com for a long while, but it's only when I was inbetween MMO's and was looking around for MMO news and bored that I started visiting this site more actively.

But what do you people think, do you think that sandbox fans make up the majority of the mmorpg.com visitors/posters? I think it's larger, maybe even far larger, percentage than on other game and MMO sites, but that's just my impression.

Most of people posting around here doesn't even know what sandbox is.

So my conclusions would be different.

"Haven" would imply that relief is being offered. This is just a talking shop.

Originally posted by Leethe

"Haven" would imply that relief is being offered. This is just a talking shop.

Talking for bored, MMO-less gamers that are also frustrated with the MMO scene can be a relief too. Heck, a lot of women are built like that, talking to you not as a means of finding a fix to a problem, but as a way to unload and feel relieved

Well, when did this site begin? I think the site was around back before the dust bowl came and removed the topsoil from games. I suspect the average user here is older too. Not more mature, but older.

I've been following these forums for years and I'm with you. The community here is heavily skewed towards many minority views. Unlike what some posters might claim, it does not represent the opinion of the larger MMO community. You are free to openly ridicule anyone who says so. Except that you aren't - which is partly why those minority views rise up.

Originally posted by Quirhid

I've been following these forums for years and I'm with you. The community here is heavily skewed towards many minority views. Unlike what some posters might claim, it does not represent the opinion of the larger MMO community. You are free to openly ridicule anyone who says so. Except that you aren't - which is partly why those minority views rise up.

what is the source for the "Opinion of the larger MMO community"  ?    How do you know this besides quoting WoW sales figures? I own a Jeep so I can be counted on those rolls, but that doesn't mean I don't also own a ford. My next car may be a motorcycle.

Even if it is a minority, doesn't really matter because there is no democracy in the game industry. It's an oligarchy of the developers. Even if you're in the majority you have no influence, your tastes just happened to put you in the popular group of users in a given period.

Originally posted by ignore_me

Originally posted by Quirhid

I've been following these forums for years and I'm with you. The community here is heavily skewed towards many minority views. Unlike what some posters might claim, it does not represent the opinion of the larger MMO community. You are free to openly ridicule anyone who says so. Except that you aren't - which is partly why those minority views rise up.

what is the source for the "Opinion of the larger MMO community"  ?    How do you know this besides quoting WoW sales figures? I own a Jeep so I can be counted on those rolls, but that doesn't mean I don't also own a ford. My next car may be a motorcycle.

Even if it is a minority, doesn't really matter because there is no democracy in the game industry. It's an oligarchy of the developers. Even if you're in the majority you have no influence, your tastes just happened to put you in the popular group of users in a given period.

For one, the amount of players playing FFA PvP is disproportional to the amount of threads about FFA PvP in MMORPG.com. And I use the term FFA PvP loosely.

I think that there is maybe some truth in what you are saying because to me a great number of posts read like the talk of an oppressed population. That lends creedence to the idea of a vocal minority. But as gamers exist in a powerless state, all talk is essentially coming from the plebes.

It would be cool to actually see the pop of the site by design preferences, but I don't think anyone would cooperate with that.

Originally posted by cutthecrap

 I think it's larger, maybe even far larger, percentage than on other game and MMO sites, but that's just my impression.

Sanbox or virtual-world or old more demanding, etc mmorpg fans are very strong on most mmorpg's forums&sites  beside those forums & sites that were build years ago on F2P Asian games crowd like Mu Online or Tibia and similar. 

On those pages they are less visible and on 'old pages' that were 'build' based on popularity of western P2P games like UO, EQ, DaOC, SWG, etc  - they are much stronger in numbers.

Mmorpg.com is not unique in this regard.

I see similar discussions about 'sandboxes' or 'virtual worlds' or about too big streamlining, tunneling in some of themeparks on other general mmorpg forums as well.  Also non-english ones.

Originally posted by cutthecrap
...

But what do you people think, do you think that sandbox fans make up the majority of the mmorpg.com visitors/posters? I think it's larger, maybe even far larger, percentage than on other game and MMO sites, but that's just my impression.

MMORPG.com is an old site, from years before WoW changed the MMORPG landscape. As such you have many people here (amongst them me)  that joinded the genre and this site before the genre went into mainstream.

The genre has changed so much in the last 8 years that it's a completely different experience now. What you perceive as "sandbox fans" are really not only sandbox fans but equally people that want the gameplay of older MMORPGs back.

Just seems there's more imagination possible with sandbox mmorpgs discussion, whereas with themepark mmorpgs discussion is often a case of: Computer says: "No". More about what the player can bring to the game than what the dev has designed/included. ^_^

Originally posted by Larsa

Originally posted by cutthecrap
...

But what do you people think, do you think that sandbox fans make up the majority of the mmorpg.com visitors/posters? I think it's larger, maybe even far larger, percentage than on other game and MMO sites, but that's just my impression.

MMORPG.com is an old site, from years before WoW changed the MMORPG landscape. As such you have many people here (amongst them me)  that joinded the genre and this site before the genre went into mainstream.

The genre has changed so much in the last 8 years that it's a completely different experience now. What you perceive as "sandbox fans" are really not only sandbox fans but equally people that want the gameplay of older MMORPGs back.

I tend to agree with this. I joined MMORPG a long time ago, when the genre really was clearly defined. The MMO landscape today seems blurred with a variety of genre's and far less clearly defined than their MMORPG roots.  Even WoW (IMO) still fits the original MMORPG definition.  Since then however, the MMO new comers seem to value financial interests over the core concept of what truly makes a MMORPG. This shift is what draws me to value what a true sandbox game has the potential to offer.

I think people here are just more interested in the MMORPG genre overall, and think a lot more about it specifically.  On other gaming sites, you see a lot more people who don't know or care why they can't be bothered with most MMOs.  They don't care about longevity, they're fine just playing an MMO for a few weeks, the same way they play most other games.  That doesn't mean more can't be done to keep them playing longer, but that isn't somethingt they're inclined to worry about so much, the way people do on a site like this.

I wouldn't say it's all SB gamers, rather fans of the older IMO deeper MMORPGs. Which is why it makes sense we see so much hostility to newer MMO trends here. It's no secret that it's hard to replicate your first MMO experience, now consider if those who started out with WOW can't do it with these new mmos, where do you think that leaves those who started out in deeper more complex games?

I don't really think it's a sandbox refuge alone. There are a lot of people around here with a taste for everything. It can border on  some very negative opinions sometimes but (for the most part) there really hasn't been a lot to shout about over the last few years. Despite all the money beeing invested into the recent game releases they all seem kind of shallow and soulless for alot of people. A lot of posters (not everybody) seem to shout the name "sandbox" like it is the answer to everything, It isn't and I don't belive these particular posters know what they are talking about. I don't mean everybody but you know the type I mean. The kind that shouts down or dismises anybody who say they enjoy playing wow for example as lesser gamers, like it's a slur on their character. That seems to have died down a little in the wake of Swtor but I digress. If I had to make some generalisations about the users I would say a lot of people are just looking for something that takes the industry forward rather than the continuing stream of new releases that just seem to be the same game with new trousers on. A lot of people want a triple A title that follows the traditions set down in SWG and UO. I really think there is room for everybody on this site but for whatever reasons they stick around or contribute, most people tend to share the same kind of idiom. Just my thoughts on this.

No it's refuge for MMO gamers since these are all mmo's. why are people so threatened by the word sandbox?

Because mmorpg.com is old school.

All I can say is I'm here because there's no game for me right now. I want a game with enjoyable combat, it might be a really simple system, as long as it's fast paced (That's why I never got over lv30 in WoW but did enjoy SWTOR). Next to that I want a world to explore. I don't care about the ride to max level where you get your hands tied to the geargrind, but I can't say I mind it. Going to max level easymode is not that bad. With themeparks you get a steady addition of skills, it doesn't become too repetitive and after a while I even want to level up an alt.

The problem I do have is that when I do that themepark ride I have seen all of the game except for some instances. I don't like the geargrind. I do them to see the content (with minimum gear requirements) or just to play with friends, but my heart really lies in RP and exploring vast worlds with hidden stuff, places only a few people have seen and beautiful environments.

Currently I'm sticking to swtor because of my guild and I do enjoy playing with them, but the lack of things to do for me in the endgame (playing since launch) is slowly breaking me up, because aside from getting way too easy attainable gear, there's nothing to do but RP and level alts all the time.

So basically what I miss is a combination of fun combat and a huge world. If (to take swtor as my example) they would add a planet with a quest line going through the main 2 hubs and leaving 90% of the planet unexplored, with for example quests or quest chains that pop when you enter certain areas I would be more than content exploring said planet for a long time until I would've seen every nook and cranny.

There's also concepts that I really like, such as player housing/customisable ships which can be done by working with others for materials/item crafting/etc. This creates a better community as well as something to do for hours and hours and hours. The problem is I never found a fun game with this feature. (And I'm not interested in getting into old games like EQ).

All of this makes me even sadder that I missed out on SWG (which at the time didn't stroke with my interests)

Someone could make a sandbox mmorpg forum.

With only players that want it instead of the so called carebears.

So, you dont have gamers complaining about open pvp and stuff like if needed to be removed from existence. Sometimes complaining even when the game have 2 servers 100% identical, one with permadeath and the other with it.