In a matter of char ofc, we see that in all games. But theres allways the silence "rude" ppl and silence "nice" ppl  

Anyway, i still dont think this will make the game community more or less mature. Will have to wait for release and then we shall see.

Just some points:

1- PvP: everyone is level 80 with max gear, blue, red and green teams cannot talk one another (to be true, they cannot see enemy players names) - I am sure we will not see kids screaming "i owned you", the game mechanics don't permit it.

2- WvWvW PvP - people will need learn to work with everyone from same world

3- cohoperative PvE - no loot stealing, no mob stealing, no holy trinity (sorry, no healers... or tanks... learn to dodge), everyone can rez,  players need learn to cohoperate.

4- GW2 don't spoon feed you - from level 2, after tutorial, you are free to go where you want go.

I am sure we will see kids playing the game, but I am too sure they will not be a problem for mature players....

I can see where the OP is coming from and i also believe that a lot of players will be thinking like the OP BUT by his logic that would mean the most Mature community would be found in the F2P games and well everyone who played some of them knows its far from that.

I think it will attract more immature players than mature one due to the fact that it does not charge monthly fees after all Mommy and daddy would prolly like to save the 15$ a month and if you are tight on money and still studying you prolly would not mind saving the 15$ as well so it really is very attractive for the immature crowd.

Now when i say mature i am only referring to age but age is a very bad indicator as to how the ppl behave.

Originally posted by Meleagar

They can't grief you; they can't kill-steal

Yes they can. Troll army of 15 players making DE scale to max not being able to get participation.

On topic: OP your point aren't really valid at all. It's impossible to determine how a community will be like. There's to many factors.

SPVP is going to be Esports, FPS, MOBA style and those communties are among the worst possible. WVWVW can bring how some really competative drive in players which leads to a-hole mode. Those types of players you meantion might also just leave after 6 months and go to teh next big, shiny new mmo.

Your idead that because there's no sub the world will alwasy be populated can go both ways too. Players may just log in 1 hour a week, leaving the world empty most of the time.

Also, TSW playersbase was annoying with the whole "this game is the thinking mans mmo and is for smart people", but that seems to be going down (hope so). Now GW2 is about "skill". There's no gear grind (which i very much agree) so now to replace that it's teh skill excuse. There'll be cookei-cutter builds and players will force others to use them in dungeons. But now, a whole new dimension of troll can be added.

Imagine- A new players comes from WOW and plays a Paladin. He's not very good but is very nice and friendly. He keeps failing has a guardian so asks for help. The response is "OMG Guardians aren't paladins. there's no tanks and your gear won't save you. This isn't a game for the PWNS people. This games about skill, which you don't have. Go back to WOW noob"

Apperently, pressing a dodge button and kiting while moving means you have "mad skillz yo". BTW this isn't the attitude of all GW2 fans, but it's just a simple (and long) way to show you that a good or bad community can com from anywhere. Let's wait a few months after launch to see what community is like.

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Yes they can. Troll army of 15 players making DE scale to max not being able to get participation.

What does this mean?  I can't be locked out of participating in any DE regardless of what any other players do.

And yes, I'm sure there will be immature people, but the question is if the GW2 game pay system (and further argued, the game design itself) will attract - in general - a more mature community.  IMO, it will on average, simply because it offers virtually no mechanisms by which associated in-game immature behavior can be actualized in any quantifiable way. I imagine that immature players would prefer to have in-game, mechanical opportunities to coerce their behavior onto others, and they already have plenty of games for that.

Why would an immature player -  meaning one who enjoys inflicting their immaturity on others - even want to play GW2?  There may be ways to annoy other players in GW2, but not nearly the opportunity that so many other games offer.

Originally posted by Meleagar

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Yes they can. Troll army of 15 players making DE scale to max not being able to get participation.

What does this mean?  I can't be locked out of participating in any DE regardless of what any other players do.

And yes, I'm sure there will be immature people, but the question is if the GW2 game pay system (and further argued, the game design itself) will attract - in general - a more mature community.  IMO, it will on average, simply because it offers virtually no mechanisms by which associated in-game immature behavior can be actualized in any quantifiable way. I imagine that immature players would prefer to have in-game, mechanical opportunities to coerce their behavior onto others, and they already have plenty of games for that.

Why would an immature player -  meaning one who enjoys inflicting their immaturity on others - even want to play GW2?  There may be ways to annoy other players in GW2, but not nearly the opportunity that so many other games offer.

This is true for the most part. Though I don't necessarily think GW2 will attract a different overall audience than say WoW mainly because I think it will sell at least 3 million copies in the first year. You are bound to get a decent slice of immature players but I think the game mechanics will at least tone down the douchery of those immature players. I still think we will have the barrens chat SOMEWHERE. Luckily we can just turn off zone chat and read only guild chat.

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Originally posted by Meleagar

They can't grief you; they can't kill-steal

Yes they can. Troll army of 15 players making DE scale to max not being able to get participation.

i hope you are joking. if not this is Misinformation if any thing it will give you more exp and loot and not take it away from you. i did lots of DE with 20+ players and still got gold level for the event.

on topic i think the only place you will have asshole players is in chat. they may try and do thing in the game world but it will fail

I'm looking forward to GW2, but I'm not seeing how it will bring in just mature people. If it's a hit, all types of people will be all over it, Like a bum on a bologna sandwich.

I've been playing GW1 lately, I see chatter of a lot of them going to GW2, and honestly, some of the most immature, rudest, people in an mmo have been from GW1(from those I've encountered,at least 1 whole alliance of people), though WoW comes in at number 1 with the most immature/rude people I've met, and SWTOR coming in 3rd, hehe.

I wish you were right though and it brought in the more mature crowd, but a new mmo, and it being a huge hit, always seem to bring in the most horrible people along with the most pleasant.

No matter how you twist the words:

GW2 is a B2P game without monthly subscription.

It's rated TEEN.

It's really _EASY_ to pick up and play.

The game will be infested with kiddoes who don't even have a CC.

These kiddoes have no idea how online games work so they'll act like they wish without paying any attention to others.

Sure about 10% of the population will be smart, friendly and (all the positive ways to describe a human) but the masses are going to be something different, completely different.

GW2 is the next big thing, just like WoW was and the communities will be really close to each other.

TSW will have a great yet SMALL community because it takes an hour to get to the first "levelling area" & real combat.

Originally posted by MercAngel

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Originally posted by Meleagar

They can't grief you; they can't kill-steal

Yes they can. Troll army of 15 players making DE scale to max not being able to get participation.

i hope you are joking. if not this is Misinformation if any thing it will give you more exp and loot and not take it away from you. i did lots of DE with 20+ players and still got gold level for the event.

 

on topic i think the only place you will have asshole players is in chat. they may try and do thing in the game world but it will fail

I think what he is trying to say is a group of whatever number of people could troll others by going in the area of a DE to make it harder, while not doing anything to help.

Originally posted by AvatarBlade

Originally posted by MercAngel

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Originally posted by Meleagar

They can't grief you; they can't kill-steal

Yes they can. Troll army of 15 players making DE scale to max not being able to get participation.

i hope you are joking. if not this is Misinformation if any thing it will give you more exp and loot and not take it away from you. i did lots of DE with 20+ players and still got gold level for the event.

on topic i think the only place you will have asshole players is in chat. they may try and do thing in the game world but it will fail

I think what he is trying to say is a group of whatever number of people could troll others by going in the area of a DE to make it harder, while not doing anything to help.

if possible, not sure why people would do that... what benefit is there to increase the difficulty level of a DE and not participate? Trolls will always find a way to be trolls, however insignificant their trolling may end up being. Case in point, GW2 not only discourages this kind of behavior, through their gameplay, but just as much encourages players to cooperate and work together. If there are any trolls out there, if you're gonna be a troll, please stick with wow.

Originally posted by AvatarBlade

Originally posted by MercAngel

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Originally posted by Meleagar

They can't grief you; they can't kill-steal

Yes they can. Troll army of 15 players making DE scale to max not being able to get participation.

i hope you are joking. if not this is Misinformation if any thing it will give you more exp and loot and not take it away from you. i did lots of DE with 20+ players and still got gold level for the event.

 

on topic i think the only place you will have asshole players is in chat. they may try and do thing in the game world but it will fail

I think what he is trying to say is a group of whatever number of people could troll others by going in the area of a DE to make it harder, while not doing anything to help.

They'd be trolling themselves harder than anyone else.  Even if the DE fails, everyone else who participates will still get their karma/exp/gold/loot.  And they'd probably get a gold rating.  Meanwhile the "trolls" will get bronze and a sinking feeling of disappointment that they didn't really bother anyone around them.  

Originally posted by garretth

Originally posted by Meowhead

Originally posted by palulalula

Well wrong! Bzzzzzzzzzz. It is harder for kids to pay sub and to own credit cards but free to play will atract kids and it was always like that. If you think that serious behaving has to do something with age you are again wrong, bzzzzzz. People start to troll when they get bored after some time and that is in every mmo.

Well, misbehaving has nothing to do with age a lot of the time.

Perfectly possible to be 47 years old and less than polite. :)

That's for sure!   heheh   

 

 

I've always wanted to use that emote!

Dude...where did you get that emote...haha I call call him donkay! So cool and when if ever would you get the opportunity to use that. Further more what is that emote for lol.

I'm not sure who will join GW2, during the beta I noticed people were generally helpful. You could argue that it's because it's beta but I also tried the Tera beta...like night and day those two. Played on a pvp server, of course every racist, sexist, etch word flying all about. Adult or kid I really don't care, but manners should be universal.sadly this is the only emote i could find that competes with Donkay!!

Or we could look at existing non-sub games and see the reality for what it is. Out of all the proposterous claims made about this game, I'm trying to think of one that would be more adverse to logical reason using the facts.

I think it will attract enough immature players to make your gaming experience annoying as hell if you let them. Just like in any other online game imo. Unless you chose to ignore those kind of players. Fortunately though, PVE doesn't give a lot of room for griefing in GW2. But PVP will have a lot of sore losers and spineless winners though. That can't be avoided and I see it as part of PVP. It just brings out the worst in some ppl.

Anyway, I don't see what the payment model has anything to do with how mature the players will be. Sub fee or not, you will always have asshats ingame. Also, being immature is not age restricted like some believe. Also has nothing to do with the amount of money you can spend.

Unfornately I am not a fan of either B2P or F2P mmo. They are B2P and F2P for a reason.

These types of mmo's attract even more unique individuals (just hope the 'block' feature is large enough).

I do however understand as we get older we have more responsibilty that life serves us, but it still comes to the mmo itself.

Is it fun enough to keep me playing for months on out (whether paying a monthly sub or not).

I look at mmo gaming as a hobby and have no problem paying for entertainment that is worth it.

Can't say that I agree with the statements in the OP.

I've gotten past the sub problem very quickly. I consider games insanely cheap, the most cheap hobby you could have, really. MMO subs don't put a dent in my budget at all. Granted, I very often buy games late and get deals and the like (I got stupidly awesome deals on WoW and Rift), but still. Never had an issue quitting the moment I want to quit.

I find it much more likely to have a large amount of a younger playerbase in a B2P MMO because that's far more accessible than a P2P MMO. Then again, I do not believe age is that significant. We've seen plenty of immaturity in P2P MMO's by now.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

What I think will affect maturity is the structure of the game itself.

The most immature crowd in my opinion is the competitive min-maxer crowd. Part of that is going to get attracted by PvP, but, hopefully, that is where they're going to stay. Generally, specialized PvP doesn't cause a problem because most people are more or less concerned about the same thing. There may be issues in WvWvW, though.

PvE, on the other hand, is not structured very well for that mindset. You can't even steal someone's mob or resource node. Hopefully, Arena.net will permit a lot of build variety, as well, since the game's overall design seems to incentivize balanced builds, what with water combat and all. Gear is in large part for looks, so there's that. You can't gank and all the factions are united. Getting to max level doesn't seem to matter much.

In fact, I think GW2 is going to have a Diablo III style backlash, actually. DIII wasn't aimed at min-maxers, and GW2 doesn't look like it is, either. There's no gear threadmill, no proper endgame from what I've seen, they're going to go ballistic.

Originally posted by Irus

... I consider games insanely cheap, the most cheap hobby you could have, really. MMO subs don't put a dent in my budget at all. ...

 

Not everyone have your budget. 60€ for a game here in Portugal are not cheap, in fact its trully expensive.

13 - 15€ per month is ok if the game is really good but the box prices i found them really expensive.

Originally posted by Irus

Can't say that I agree with the statements in the OP.

I've gotten past the sub problem very quickly. I consider games insanely cheap, the most cheap hobby you could have, really. MMO subs don't put a dent in my budget at all. Granted, I very often buy games late and get deals and the like (I got stupidly awesome deals on WoW and Rift), but still. Never had an issue quitting the moment I want to quit.

I find it much more likely to have a large amount of a younger playerbase in a B2P MMO because that's far more accessible than a P2P MMO. Then again, I do not believe age is that significant. We've seen plenty of immaturity in P2P MMO's by now.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

What I think will affect maturity is the structure of the game itself.

The most immature crowd in my opinion is the competitive min-maxer crowd. Part of that is going to get attracted by PvP, but, hopefully, that is where they're going to stay. Generally, specialized PvP doesn't cause a problem because most people are more or less concerned about the same thing. There may be issues in WvWvW, though.

PvE, on the other hand, is not structured very well for that mindset. You can't even steal someone's mob or resource node. Hopefully, Arena.net will permit a lot of build variety, as well, since the game's overall design seems to incentivize balanced builds, what with water combat and all. Gear is in large part for looks, so there's that. You can't gank and all the factions are united. Getting to max level doesn't seem to matter much.

In fact, I think GW2 is going to have a Diablo III style backlash, actually. DIII wasn't aimed at min-maxers, and GW2 doesn't look like it is, either. There's no gear threadmill, no proper endgame from what I've seen, they're going to go ballistic.

You might be right, but people should already know that pretty well since GW1 is the same way there. The big difference is that they had 10 times the money and crew to make it so they could afford to make a MMO instead, and improve a lot of mechanics.

Still, I did predict a lot of whiners from the classic gear grinders a few years back.... It will happen.

Originally posted by Jabas

Not everyone have your budget. 60€ for a game here in Portugal are not cheap, in fact its trully expensive.

13 - 15€ per month is ok if the game is really good but the box prices i found them really expensive.

I know people in Europe buying a 5k motorcycle every so often, so, yeah. Or a camera. Or going to expensive restaurants where you leave $100+.

Tight budget is kinda irrelevant since I have seen some poor people pay stupid prices for things like cars and the like (I knew a guy who worked at McDonalds who bought a 13k car that wasn't even good). In US you got ultra-poor college students with debt paying tons of money to travel to weddings. Ridiculous. It's just bad money management.

But what you do with your money is your business. My point is that, comparatively, gaming is horrendously cheap. The amount of entertainment you get for $15 or Euros (not that I support this lopsided pricing) is ridiculous compared to, well, pretty much anything else I can think of... even more so in case of $60 one-buy games, and people complain about the price of those, too.

If you're poor, you're poor, but don't tell me gaming is expensive.

Originally posted by seridan

My "biggest" complain against the OP's argument is that the game is rated T

That means we won't see any dark/moody content in the game like for example in Dragon Age. I can understand why and I'm ok with it, but it could've been "better" imo

In my experience, mature games are often the most immature...

"Oh, look, blooooooooooooooood and gore!" - wtf?

"Ooooh, boobies!" - this sound mature to you?

Originally posted by StrangeEyes

Im NOT in the camp of i hope for more mature players, im in the CAMP of  ALL AGES having fun with Guild Wars 2.

Maturity and age are different things. I don't care, and won't know, how old someone is. But if they're insufferable to be around, there's that.

Originally posted by johaocarl

2- WvWvW PvP - people will need learn to work with everyone from same world

Hmm. I haven't considered that. This will probably be a really nice way to get to know people from your world.

Originally posted by Loke666

You might be right, but people should already know that pretty well since GW1 is the same way there. The big difference is that they had 10 times the money and crew to make it so they could afford to make a MMO instead, and improve a lot of mechanics.

Still, I did predict a lot of whiners from the classic gear grinders a few years back.... It will happen.

Haha, well, Diablo III has given people plenty of warning, as well. I mean, how much whine have we seen on online play when that was revealed ages ago?

GW2 spent a lot of effort explaining how despite being a GW1 sequel, it's an MMO now. To a lot of people, that implies a lot of stuff. Like the gear grind.

Whining will happen, indeed.