Originally posted by Ecoces

Originally posted by TruthXHurts

Originally posted by Ecoces

many people don't enjoy the stress or tension that comes with playing a permadeath game. grats on being one of the few people that do good for you but a permadeath MMO will never be mainstream.

Name one thing that is mainstream that is truly good please. 

good is subjective I would think everyone would be aware of this by now. what i think is good you will probably hate, or someone will.

This ^^^^

To me, MANY things in the mainstream are good. Diablo 3, WOW are great games. The Avenger is a great movie. I hate Harry Potter though.

Originally posted by BigHatLogan

Originally posted by AvatarBlade

Thing is that permadeath in this game is not so harsh as it would be in an MMO. Here you lose your gear, but even with a newly made char you have the chance of killing someone that has been alive for 2 hours, for example. In an MMO, there is more advancement beside gear and starting over is a lot harder. You usually don't stand much of a chance against someone that has been playing longer, because he doesn't only have a weapon that is somewhat more powerfull, he also has skills and a lot more powerfull armor than you. That's how it usually is at least.

A permadeath mmorpg would need to get rid of a lot of the pointless and boring "Advancement" that they throw in to keep people running on the subscription treadmill.  The developers just need to go back to the Sword is a sword is a sword mentality instead of +5 Sword of Instant Monster Destructions you get for killing 10000 plague bats. 

They would also have to get rid of skill advancement, or only make it so you earn sidegrades in time, no upgrades. Like that, yes it could probably be done without much inconvenience. But won't that take from the permadeath mechanic? I don't know, only asking because I never played an MMO with permadeath. In an FPS it's fine, but I think people approach an MMORPG differently.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Ecoces

Originally posted by TruthXHurts

Originally posted by Ecoces

many people don't enjoy the stress or tension that comes with playing a permadeath game. grats on being one of the few people that do good for you but a permadeath MMO will never be mainstream.

Name one thing that is mainstream that is truly good please. 

good is subjective I would think everyone would be aware of this by now. what i think is good you will probably hate, or someone will.

 

This ^^^^

To me, MANY things in the mainstream are good. Diablo 3, WOW are great games. The Avenger is a great movie. I hate Harry Potter though.

Is it great or is it just so full of CGI and explosions that you can't take time to worry about character development and how they butcher the marvel mythology?

Originally posted by TruthXHurts

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Ecoces

Originally posted by TruthXHurts

Originally posted by Ecoces

many people don't enjoy the stress or tension that comes with playing a permadeath game. grats on being one of the few people that do good for you but a permadeath MMO will never be mainstream.

Name one thing that is mainstream that is truly good please. 

good is subjective I would think everyone would be aware of this by now. what i think is good you will probably hate, or someone will.

 

This ^^^^

To me, MANY things in the mainstream are good. Diablo 3, WOW are great games. The Avenger is a great movie. I hate Harry Potter though.

Is it great or is it just so full of CGI and explosions that you can't take time to worry about character development and how they butcher the marvel mythology?

lol my point exactly.

Originally posted by Caldrin

Its great for this game as all you have to loose is your gear, so yeah it works well for fps survial games thats for sure..

 

Would it work well in a MMORPG where you have spent a lot of time developing your character? unless they made the character lvling/skill rate really fast then it would suck.. but if they made the lvling/skill rate that fast what would be the point may as well remoe the lvls and your left with an MMOG... still as Dayz has shown that can be great fun..

 

Its hard to bring perma death into MMORPG, I guess EVE did a good job as you could clone yourself and it would be your fault if you forgot..

 

now on the other hand full loot in a MMORPG works really well :) and i think more should go down that route..

 

 

Why do we always have to develop a character in an MMO? Why can't we just have MMOs without this boring progression?

Originally posted by TruthXHurts

Originally posted by BigCountry

Only thing that needs balanced perhaps is bandits. There needs to be consequences for killing someone in Day Z outside a cosmetic skin. When I first started playing few weeks ago I noticed the player killing was more black and white, and balanced. This weekend it was simply brutal. People were treating it like a Quake arena or something...

Ya that's why I don't really care for it. It's just a deathmatch. Now if they made it more of a sandbox I'd play it. I'm too busy on the Arma Life RP servers to spend days running in the dark on DayZ.

It's early days yet.

Originally posted by tixylix

Originally posted by Caldrin

Its great for this game as all you have to loose is your gear, so yeah it works well for fps survial games thats for sure..

 

Would it work well in a MMORPG where you have spent a lot of time developing your character? unless they made the character lvling/skill rate really fast then it would suck.. but if they made the lvling/skill rate that fast what would be the point may as well remoe the lvls and your left with an MMOG... still as Dayz has shown that can be great fun..

 

Its hard to bring perma death into MMORPG, I guess EVE did a good job as you could clone yourself and it would be your fault if you forgot..

 

now on the other hand full loot in a MMORPG works really well :) and i think more should go down that route..

 

 

 

 

Why do we always have to develop a character in an MMO? Why can't we just have MMOs without this boring progression?

I agree. Why can't I use my skills as a thinking human being instead of unlocking a magic button at a certain level? Oh I know why because that's "too hard" for most of the mainstream casual players of today. Thye can't be bothered to be good. They have to have that carrot dangling in front of them at all times and big soft pillow strapped to their ass so it doesn't hurt when they fall off their high horses.

Originally posted by tixylix

Originally posted by Caldrin

Its great for this game as all you have to loose is your gear, so yeah it works well for fps survial games thats for sure..

 

Would it work well in a MMORPG where you have spent a lot of time developing your character? unless they made the character lvling/skill rate really fast then it would suck.. but if they made the lvling/skill rate that fast what would be the point may as well remoe the lvls and your left with an MMOG... still as Dayz has shown that can be great fun..

 

Its hard to bring perma death into MMORPG, I guess EVE did a good job as you could clone yourself and it would be your fault if you forgot..

 

now on the other hand full loot in a MMORPG works really well :) and i think more should go down that route..

 

 

 

 

Why do we always have to develop a character in an MMO? Why can't we just have MMOs without this boring progression?

Thought they were called FPS games?

Originally posted by AvatarBlade

Originally posted by BigHatLogan

Originally posted by AvatarBlade

Thing is that permadeath in this game is not so harsh as it would be in an MMO. Here you lose your gear, but even with a newly made char you have the chance of killing someone that has been alive for 2 hours, for example. In an MMO, there is more advancement beside gear and starting over is a lot harder. You usually don't stand much of a chance against someone that has been playing longer, because he doesn't only have a weapon that is somewhat more powerfull, he also has skills and a lot more powerfull armor than you. That's how it usually is at least.

A permadeath mmorpg would need to get rid of a lot of the pointless and boring "Advancement" that they throw in to keep people running on the subscription treadmill.  The developers just need to go back to the Sword is a sword is a sword mentality instead of +5 Sword of Instant Monster Destructions you get for killing 10000 plague bats. 

They would also have to get rid of skill advancement, or only make it so you earn sidegrades in time, no upgrades. Like that, yes it could probably be done without much inconvenience. But won't that take from the permadeath mechanic? I don't know, only asking because I never played an MMO with permadeath. In an FPS it's fine, but I think people approach an MMO differently.

In my opinion, if you die on a permadeath mmorpg, you should be able to get back to a competetive level within 2 to 3  hours.  Perhaps you might not have quite as good of stuff, but at least have equipment and skill advancements if those are in the game.    Dying will still be very scary, since 2 hours is a significant amount of playtime.  But it won't be such an atrocity that people will just quit the game. 

Originally posted by BigHatLogan

Originally posted by AvatarBlade

Originally posted by BigHatLogan

Originally posted by AvatarBlade

Thing is that permadeath in this game is not so harsh as it would be in an MMO. Here you lose your gear, but even with a newly made char you have the chance of killing someone that has been alive for 2 hours, for example. In an MMO, there is more advancement beside gear and starting over is a lot harder. You usually don't stand much of a chance against someone that has been playing longer, because he doesn't only have a weapon that is somewhat more powerfull, he also has skills and a lot more powerfull armor than you. That's how it usually is at least.

A permadeath mmorpg would need to get rid of a lot of the pointless and boring "Advancement" that they throw in to keep people running on the subscription treadmill.  The developers just need to go back to the Sword is a sword is a sword mentality instead of +5 Sword of Instant Monster Destructions you get for killing 10000 plague bats. 

They would also have to get rid of skill advancement, or only make it so you earn sidegrades in time, no upgrades. Like that, yes it could probably be done without much inconvenience. But won't that take from the permadeath mechanic? I don't know, only asking because I never played an MMO with permadeath. In an FPS it's fine, but I think people approach an MMO differently.

In my opinion, if you die on a permadeath mmorpg, you should be able to get back to a competetive level within 2 to 3  hours.  Perhaps you might not have quite as good of stuff, but at least have equipment and skill advancements if those are in the game.    Dying will still be very scary, since 2 hours is a significant amount of playtime.  But it won't be such an atrocity that people will just quit the game. 

Salem and Haven and Hearth handle permadeath in a very good way. You character dies, and you lose a large portion of your skills. Your heir still retains all of your stuff that you have stored, and a portion of your skill points to redistribute. It's not actual perma death, but more of an inheiretence system on death.

I think I'd like it better if there were actual factions fighting instead of a killing anyone gank-fest. For instance if there were the Civilians vs Military vs Evil Corporation that caused this mess...then player interations would be a lot better because what I've seen is people generally avoid or shoot on sight other players. Factiuon fighting would encourage players to group more, without getting shot in the back by their group-mate.

Then again, maybe the gank-fest is what makes it popular to most people.

Originally posted by TruthXHurts

Originally posted by tixylix

Originally posted by Caldrin

Its great for this game as all you have to loose is your gear, so yeah it works well for fps survial games thats for sure..

 

Would it work well in a MMORPG where you have spent a lot of time developing your character? unless they made the character lvling/skill rate really fast then it would suck.. but if they made the lvling/skill rate that fast what would be the point may as well remoe the lvls and your left with an MMOG... still as Dayz has shown that can be great fun..

 

Its hard to bring perma death into MMORPG, I guess EVE did a good job as you could clone yourself and it would be your fault if you forgot..

 

now on the other hand full loot in a MMORPG works really well :) and i think more should go down that route..

 

 

 

 

Why do we always have to develop a character in an MMO? Why can't we just have MMOs without this boring progression?

I agree. Why can't I use my skills as a thinking human being instead of unlocking a magic button at a certain level? Oh I know why because that's "too hard" for most of the mainstream casual players of today. Thye can't be bothered to be good. They have to have that carrot dangling in front of them at all times and big soft pillow strapped to their ass so it doesn't hurt when they fall off their high horses.

and the Casuals are on high horses?

Even the earliest RPGs i have played, games like Dragon Warrior 1 and Fina Fantasy 1 (and probably earlier ones that i have forgotten) have always been about character progression. no one fought their way through a dungeon to get a basic sword.

Originally posted by BigHatLogan

Originally posted by AvatarBlade

Originally posted by BigHatLogan

Originally posted by AvatarBlade

Thing is that permadeath in this game is not so harsh as it would be in an MMO. Here you lose your gear, but even with a newly made char you have the chance of killing someone that has been alive for 2 hours, for example. In an MMO, there is more advancement beside gear and starting over is a lot harder. You usually don't stand much of a chance against someone that has been playing longer, because he doesn't only have a weapon that is somewhat more powerfull, he also has skills and a lot more powerfull armor than you. That's how it usually is at least.

A permadeath mmorpg would need to get rid of a lot of the pointless and boring "Advancement" that they throw in to keep people running on the subscription treadmill.  The developers just need to go back to the Sword is a sword is a sword mentality instead of +5 Sword of Instant Monster Destructions you get for killing 10000 plague bats. 

They would also have to get rid of skill advancement, or only make it so you earn sidegrades in time, no upgrades. Like that, yes it could probably be done without much inconvenience. But won't that take from the permadeath mechanic? I don't know, only asking because I never played an MMO with permadeath. In an FPS it's fine, but I think people approach an MMO differently.

In my opinion, if you die on a permadeath mmorpg, you should be able to get back to a competetive level within 2 to 3  hours.  Perhaps you might not have quite as good of stuff, but at least have equipment and skill advancements if those are in the game.    Dying will still be very scary, since 2 hours is a significant amount of playtime.  But it won't be such an atrocity that people will just quit the game. 

Something along those lines might work. It should also have random spawn points so someone who is an older player can't just stand in the starting zone just killing everyone making a new char. AI enemies would also have to be leveless. Maybe make combat something along the lines of "War of the Roses" upcomming game if you know it. Thing is don't know how many people would like such short advancement of their avatar in an MMO enviroment.

Originally posted by Ecoces

Originally posted by TruthXHurts

Originally posted by tixylix

Originally posted by Caldrin

Its great for this game as all you have to loose is your gear, so yeah it works well for fps survial games thats for sure..

 

Would it work well in a MMORPG where you have spent a lot of time developing your character? unless they made the character lvling/skill rate really fast then it would suck.. but if they made the lvling/skill rate that fast what would be the point may as well remoe the lvls and your left with an MMOG... still as Dayz has shown that can be great fun..

 

Its hard to bring perma death into MMORPG, I guess EVE did a good job as you could clone yourself and it would be your fault if you forgot..

 

now on the other hand full loot in a MMORPG works really well :) and i think more should go down that route..

 

 

 

 

Why do we always have to develop a character in an MMO? Why can't we just have MMOs without this boring progression?

I agree. Why can't I use my skills as a thinking human being instead of unlocking a magic button at a certain level? Oh I know why because that's "too hard" for most of the mainstream casual players of today. Thye can't be bothered to be good. They have to have that carrot dangling in front of them at all times and big soft pillow strapped to their ass so it doesn't hurt when they fall off their high horses.

and the Casuals are on high horses?

Even the earliest RPGs i have played, games like Dragon Warrior 1 and Fina Fantasy 1 (and probably earlier ones that i have forgotten) have always been about character progression. no one fought their way through a dungeon to get a basic sword.

Oh well by all means let's not try to innovate on a 30 year old system. Let's just use aqueducts instead of plumbing to dispose of our crap. Why do you think that gaming should be the only industry in the world that doesn't innovate?

I would love to see a game specifically built for this type of thing (i am actually a huge survival horror fanboy) but allow me and my guild to purchase our own server like you can in minecraft.

this way i can play with friends only.

Originally posted by Ecoces

Originally posted by TruthXHurts

Originally posted by tixylix

Originally posted by Caldrin

Its great for this game as all you have to loose is your gear, so yeah it works well for fps survial games thats for sure..

 

Would it work well in a MMORPG where you have spent a lot of time developing your character? unless they made the character lvling/skill rate really fast then it would suck.. but if they made the lvling/skill rate that fast what would be the point may as well remoe the lvls and your left with an MMOG... still as Dayz has shown that can be great fun..

 

Its hard to bring perma death into MMORPG, I guess EVE did a good job as you could clone yourself and it would be your fault if you forgot..

 

now on the other hand full loot in a MMORPG works really well :) and i think more should go down that route..

 

 

 

 

Why do we always have to develop a character in an MMO? Why can't we just have MMOs without this boring progression?

I agree. Why can't I use my skills as a thinking human being instead of unlocking a magic button at a certain level? Oh I know why because that's "too hard" for most of the mainstream casual players of today. Thye can't be bothered to be good. They have to have that carrot dangling in front of them at all times and big soft pillow strapped to their ass so it doesn't hurt when they fall off their high horses.

and the Casuals are on high horses?

Even the earliest RPGs i have played, games like Dragon Warrior 1 and Fina Fantasy 1 (and probably earlier ones that i have forgotten) have always been about character progression. no one fought their way through a dungeon to get a basic sword.

If you really want to go chase carrots, there are tons of grinding games out there for you.  Games use this "character advancement" system to keep a player interested.  There are other ways to do this.  Maybe some people find something a little more creative to be more fun.  The MUDs I played let you equip very easily.  Go punch something that had a sword to death, and take the sword.  Now you are armed and dangerous.  The idea is simple, take out the grind for the most part, but make you start over when you die.  This makes for an amazing open world pvp game.

Originally posted by TruthXHurts

Originally posted by Ecoces

Originally posted by TruthXHurts

Originally posted by tixylix

Originally posted by Caldrin

Its great for this game as all you have to loose is your gear, so yeah it works well for fps survial games thats for sure..

 

Would it work well in a MMORPG where you have spent a lot of time developing your character? unless they made the character lvling/skill rate really fast then it would suck.. but if they made the lvling/skill rate that fast what would be the point may as well remoe the lvls and your left with an MMOG... still as Dayz has shown that can be great fun..

 

Its hard to bring perma death into MMORPG, I guess EVE did a good job as you could clone yourself and it would be your fault if you forgot..

 

now on the other hand full loot in a MMORPG works really well :) and i think more should go down that route..

 

 

 

 

Why do we always have to develop a character in an MMO? Why can't we just have MMOs without this boring progression?

I agree. Why can't I use my skills as a thinking human being instead of unlocking a magic button at a certain level? Oh I know why because that's "too hard" for most of the mainstream casual players of today. Thye can't be bothered to be good. They have to have that carrot dangling in front of them at all times and big soft pillow strapped to their ass so it doesn't hurt when they fall off their high horses.

and the Casuals are on high horses?

Even the earliest RPGs i have played, games like Dragon Warrior 1 and Fina Fantasy 1 (and probably earlier ones that i have forgotten) have always been about character progression. no one fought their way through a dungeon to get a basic sword.

Oh well by all means let's not try to innovate on a 30 year old system. Let's just use aqueducts instead of plumbing to dispose of our crap. Why do you think that gaming should be the only industry in the world that doesn't innovate?

because people enjoy that style a game so apparently its not broken, YOU just don't like it, sounds like you should be looking at FPS games instead of RPGs, again we are going back to the first lesson i taught you ... that "good is a subjective term"

RPGs - character developement through items, levels and skills

FPS - pure player skill little to no character progression

Originally posted by Ecoces

Originally posted by TruthXHurts

Originally posted by Ecoces

Originally posted by TruthXHurts

Originally posted by tixylix

Originally posted by Caldrin

Its great for this game as all you have to loose is your gear, so yeah it works well for fps survial games thats for sure..

 

Would it work well in a MMORPG where you have spent a lot of time developing your character? unless they made the character lvling/skill rate really fast then it would suck.. but if they made the lvling/skill rate that fast what would be the point may as well remoe the lvls and your left with an MMOG... still as Dayz has shown that can be great fun..

 

Its hard to bring perma death into MMORPG, I guess EVE did a good job as you could clone yourself and it would be your fault if you forgot..

 

now on the other hand full loot in a MMORPG works really well :) and i think more should go down that route..

 

 

 

 

Why do we always have to develop a character in an MMO? Why can't we just have MMOs without this boring progression?

I agree. Why can't I use my skills as a thinking human being instead of unlocking a magic button at a certain level? Oh I know why because that's "too hard" for most of the mainstream casual players of today. Thye can't be bothered to be good. They have to have that carrot dangling in front of them at all times and big soft pillow strapped to their ass so it doesn't hurt when they fall off their high horses.

and the Casuals are on high horses?

Even the earliest RPGs i have played, games like Dragon Warrior 1 and Fina Fantasy 1 (and probably earlier ones that i have forgotten) have always been about character progression. no one fought their way through a dungeon to get a basic sword.

Oh well by all means let's not try to innovate on a 30 year old system. Let's just use aqueducts instead of plumbing to dispose of our crap. Why do you think that gaming should be the only industry in the world that doesn't innovate?

because people enjoy that style a game so apparently its not broken, YOU just don't like it, sounds like you should be looking at FPS games instead of RPGs, again we are going back to the first lesson i taught you ... that "good is a subjective term"

 

RPGs - character developement through items, levels and skills

FPS - pure player skill little to no character progression

I play pen and paper RPG still son so don't tell me what I like and dislike. What I dislike is being lumped into a pot and told that this is what an MMO is and I will like it or I will starve.

Originally posted by BigHatLogan

Originally posted by Ecoces

Originally posted by TruthXHurts

Originally posted by tixylix

Originally posted by Caldrin

Its great for this game as all you have to loose is your gear, so yeah it works well for fps survial games thats for sure..

 

Would it work well in a MMORPG where you have spent a lot of time developing your character? unless they made the character lvling/skill rate really fast then it would suck.. but if they made the lvling/skill rate that fast what would be the point may as well remoe the lvls and your left with an MMOG... still as Dayz has shown that can be great fun..

 

Its hard to bring perma death into MMORPG, I guess EVE did a good job as you could clone yourself and it would be your fault if you forgot..

 

now on the other hand full loot in a MMORPG works really well :) and i think more should go down that route..

 

 

 

 

Why do we always have to develop a character in an MMO? Why can't we just have MMOs without this boring progression?

I agree. Why can't I use my skills as a thinking human being instead of unlocking a magic button at a certain level? Oh I know why because that's "too hard" for most of the mainstream casual players of today. Thye can't be bothered to be good. They have to have that carrot dangling in front of them at all times and big soft pillow strapped to their ass so it doesn't hurt when they fall off their high horses.

and the Casuals are on high horses?

Even the earliest RPGs i have played, games like Dragon Warrior 1 and Fina Fantasy 1 (and probably earlier ones that i have forgotten) have always been about character progression. no one fought their way through a dungeon to get a basic sword.

If you really want to go chase carrots, there are tons of grinding games out there for you.  Games use this "character advancement" system to keep a player interested.  There are other ways to do this.  Maybe some people find something a little more creative to be more fun.  The MUDs I played let you equip very easily.  Go punch something that had a sword to death, and take the sword.  Now you are armed and dangerous.  The idea is simple, take out the grind for the most part, but make you start over when you die.  This makes for an amazing open world pvp game.

and apparently there are a lot of players who don't like the idea of losing their "sword of death". they don't like the tension and stress it brings on them. neither is right or wrong but you have to understand that the most popular full loot game only has 300k subscribers, they are very niche so thus AAA MMO companies aren't going to touch them.

Some people in here really don't have a clue about what is an RPG & I wander why they are actually here on MMORPG.com.