Some might find this article interesting:

"MMOs are the third rail of the industry. Even established publishers get into trouble with MMOs," he says. "The latest good product, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Electronic Arts spent $200 million to develop plus $80 million for post-launch content and support. Then they spent $50 million on marketing. You cannot make a MMO for $75 million. Rhode Island didn't do their due diligence."

http://money.cnn.com/2012/05/28/technology/38-studios/index.htm?source=cnn_bin

hahahah...

While its true someone at the state didnt do their homework, it isnt because 38studios wanted to make an MMO...its because 38studios were run by people that did not know the industry. They were spending tons of money on things they didnt need to spend it on...and they were in no position to be buying out other companies. Proper management was the only thing that could have made that company work.

"The latest good product?" By whose standards is "good" being defined? Where's the objectivity? If there was an objective measure to determine good versus bad, I doubt very much SWTOR would land good-side up. How is this even considered competent journalism?

BOT: Oh hubris. Oh Rhode Island, even when you're trying a cutting-edge approach to raising tax revenue, you still come across as imcompetent if not, at the very least, obviously and basely corrupt.

Don't think that analyst should have used SWTOR as an example.  Whether the game is good or bad I leave that to you, however it's pretty clear the game is not as sucessful as EA had hoped.  It's what NOT to do.  Spend 200+ million dollars on a game that is losing subs faster than any MMO in history. 

It's not that the 75 million may have not been enough, it's what the studio did with the money.  You can throw money at problems all day, however you can't fix bad management and incompetent accountants.

Wow. That sucks. Someone needs to find a way to cut cost for MMO's. It's crazy all this money is blown and all new MMOs suck.

Originally posted by sartok

Wow. That sucks. Someone needs to find a way to cut cost for MMO's. It's crazy all this money is blown and all new MMOs suck.

I thnk people still need to learn the lesson from the mytical man month.  Throwing more programmers at a project doesn't give the imagined benefit.

The age old problem where people think money > everything. Including money > talent, passion, ingenuity...

Thats a tough article to swallow for the 38 crew.  Something tells me Curt Shilling is going to be in a lot of trouble soon. And, 400 employees for a startup company? WTF!

This is the kicker:  "Rhode Island now effectively owns all of 38 Studios' intellectual property and the rights to Kingdom of Amalur: Reckoning and Project Copernicus. "

Well, I disagree with the article, Rift was made on a budget near that, but 38 studios did buy a another company, released another game and such, so not sure how much of the money was eaten by those things, but I mean that is their problem....If those things were going to cost too much, it falls on them.

I am not saying I thought Rift was great, but it was decent, but it is what it is, and it was too small/railed/dailyed for me, but Trion seems like one of the top gaming companies out there.  They seem to be doing things in their model at a great pace and with quality.  I wished the game were more to my liking, as they are a quality company. 

Unless Trion lied about how much things did cost (I know they had like 100-150 million in cash, but they have more projects also), I would say 38 studios mismanaged the money....A shame too, I was hoping to see what they were going to come up with, probably just to get presented with another WoW clone, but I had hopes....

And the plot thickens?

Another obvious case of a reporter only doing HALF a story with HALF the facts. Ken if you gonna take money for smear story atleast get the facts right.
1) Governor Chafstick broke the NDA releasing information that should have not have been public
2) that payment was an extortion payment to get tax credits that would have kept 38 afloat for external funding to kick in next month.. Instead GOv. Chafstick humiliated 38 by backing out of a verbal deal made by the previous adminstration.
3) the game was 90% complete if you need a source google moorguard and read any forum posts he made
4) the layoff were in actuality a protest of the corrupt Rhode Island government backing out of agreements in the name of greed, this is proven by the two-faced statements of Gov. Chafstick. If you can see them ask someone who can read.
5) The corrupt RI govt. knew this game would be a huge success if it was competed and wanted a bigger share of the profits for personal gains but disguised at as something else. They were advised by "un-named experts", who had no clue about the game and proven via conflicting story directions by the Governor corrupt-afee.
6) John Savage is useless in the gaming industry and has proven that he is as corrupt at the RI Gov. and giving false and wrong information. dig deeper and you will see the motives for his shady behavior.

Lastly, Why on earth would a reporter not talk to ANY employee from 38 and write as bad a story as this on such limited information? The editor must be rubber stamping half baked stories AGAIN.

There are fans that dig deeper into news than whats been reported on 38 Studios so far, I've made the conclusion that WPRI News, where majority of these stories started is connected to Gov Chafstick's corruption.

Originally posted by thinktank001

And the plot thickens?

 

Another obvious case of a reporter only doing HALF a story with HALF the facts. Ken if you gonna take money for smear story atleast get the facts right.
1) Governor Chafstick broke the NDA releasing information that should have not have been public Do you have a copy of the NDA or have proof?
2) that payment was an extortion payment to get tax credits that would have kept 38 afloat for external funding to kick in next month.. Instead GOv. Chafstick humiliated 38 by backing out of a verbal deal made by the previous adminstration. It was a bit back-handed. But not extortion. The credits are only available under special conditions that 38 Studios didn't meet. That condition is that the company had to be incorporated in the state. 38 Studios is incorporated in Delaware. So I'm not sure what you mean by backing out of any verbal agreement. 
3) the game was 90% complete if you need a source google moorguard and read any forum posts he made This is irrelevant. 90%, 2%, 99.99% or even if it had gone gold, the money isnt there.
4) the layoff were in actuality a protest of the corrupt Rhode Island government backing out of agreements in the name of greed, this is proven by the two-faced statements of Gov. Chafstick. If you can see them ask someone who can read. Funny... I thought the layoff was a lack of funding. It would seem rather extreme to not pay your employees to "protest"
5) The corrupt RI govt. knew this game would be a huge success if it was competed and wanted a bigger share of the profits for personal gains but disguised at as something else. They were advised by "un-named experts", who had no clue about the game and proven via conflicting story directions by the Governor corrupt-afee. This makes no sense.
6) John Savage is useless in the gaming industry and has proven that he is as corrupt at the RI Gov. and giving false and wrong information. dig deeper and you will see the motives for his shady behavior. Cool story bro

Lastly, Why on earth would a reporter not talk to ANY employee from 38 and write as bad a story as this on such limited information? The editor must be rubber stamping half baked stories AGAIN.

There are fans that dig deeper into news than whats been reported on 38 Studios so far, I've made the conclusion that WPRI News, where majority of these stories started is connected to Gov Chafstick's corruption.

The problem here is that I give this post less credit and sway than the article because of how much opinion and propaganda is injected.

Regardless of the quality of the reporter, this type of response does nothing to bring light to the shortcomings of the article or provide much in the way of additional information/facts/evidence to weigh against the article for comparision.

38 studios went under. They failed not because an MMO cant be made with 75MM but failed because the company management failed. They wasted funds. They agreed to unsustainable staffing requirements for the deal. They over-spent and under-delivered on KOA.

As far as corruption? Its easy to find. Just release the info on who bought the bonds that funded the loan. If there isn't corruption there, then really the state doesn't stand to gain much of anything but a very unhappy constituency.

I wonder how a company that has not released any game and is working on two title with a new IP, one of them an MMo, gets $75 million in the first place, especially when RI suffered from a high unemployment rate already.

A publisher, okay. Thats their business after all.  They should not whether or not the game can be sucessful, and as a private company, are looking after their money. But a state..usually not a good idea.

And 400 people? Including those that worked on Kingdom of Alamur, or without? Even if it's with.. TSW and GW2 are develop by ~270 people now. Funcom recuded their stuff some years ago, so it was more around 330 for them, but still, they got somethign done, with TSW it will be two MMOs. And ArenaNet surely isn't short on money. Infact, they explicitly mention it on their jobs page "Sustained, long-term financial backing; no “funding milestones”.

Not having released a single game, at least no key member with real experience, and then collection $75 million for 450 jobs? Someone must have had quite an interest in getting this done, or several key people where literally sleeping on the job.

Starting a business in the north east is a nightmare, that was his first mistake, especially such a large corporation, Schills should have opened it in Florida, Texas, or some other business friendly state. And wasn't Reckoning relatively sucessful, if so wouldn't that have made up some of the aquisition cost of BHG, unless they way over paid for it. 

Not sure I am buying the 90% done mantra, if that were the case they could have gotten an outside investor to kick in a bridge loan. It is either not that close to done, or when showed to potential investors they thought it sucked.

using the *most expensive* mmo ever made as an example doesnt help to prove any points

the vast majority of mmos cost under 100 million

Originally posted by Worstluck

Don't think that analyst should have used SWTOR as an example.  Whether the game is good or bad I leave that to you, however it's pretty clear the game is not as sucessful as EA had hoped.  It's what NOT to do.  Spend 200+ million dollars on a game that is losing subs faster than any MMO in history. 

 

It's not that the 75 million may have not been enough, it's what the studio did with the money.  You can throw money at problems all day, however you can't fix bad management and incompetent accountants.

I agree. the SWTOR example is misleading, since it was a poor quality product that used most of its money on non gameplay related stuff like voiceovers. Imagine a game like Rift that had 200million dollars to make. it would have been the greatest MMo ever!!!