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News & Features Discussion  » The Elder Scrolls Online: Targeting the MMO Market

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105 posts found
  PyrateLV

Tipster

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 1118

5/28/12 11:13:28 AM#81
Originally posted by Brenelael
Originally posted by Comaf
Originally posted by dimasok
As long as its not a WoW clone like SWToR ill be happy. Give me DAOC type RvR as well as decent dynamic combat quests, good combat (mounted too) and a live community and ill be all over it

Absolutely!  I'll agree to that.  I'll happily ignore the morons that call this a theme park clone, yet ignore (a) the classes are different in each faction - ever seen that before? (b) there are three factions - other than Dark Age, where have you seen that in a medieval fantasy mmorpg?

 

All these people complaining here are the same folks who put SW:TOR and GW2 on a pedestal.  They are the first to overhype a cheese mmorpg project that has nothing new to offer the genre.  Then, along comes ESO, and suddenly these folks become a vocal community.  What are you all afraid of?  Afraid that three faction mmorpg with NO mirrored classes will kick the living crap out of all the other titles?

 

Get used to it.  Dark Age of Camelot has 24 races and 44 classes across three uniquely different realms.  They lifted the bar higher than the theme parked Rift, or video game designed GW2 could ever imagine.  Now ESO will fulfill what many of us knew could be done in 2001.

 

 

People have a habbit of remembering DAoC with slightly rose tinted glasses however. The fact is even in a time when populations where counted in the hundreds of thousands DAoC was a niche game at best. At it's peak it only managed 250k subs which although profitable was still low when compared to other games of the period. Everquest alone had easily twice that or more. Using a game to model a modern MMO after that was one of the lower population games of it's time is a recipe for disaster in my honest opinion.

 

I liked DAoC as much as anyone here but I don't put it on a pedestal. They had a chance to come up with something truly unique here and they squandered it. DAoC with an Elder Scrolls paint job will not be as successful as you may think if at the most 250k DAoC fans are going to save it.  Elder Scrolls fans expect a MMO that is at it's core what made the single player games great only modified to allow for more players. A DAoC framework is the polar opposite of what fans expect. I honestly can't see how this game will be successful in a modern MMO market.

 

Bren

THIS

 

DAOC was not that great a game.

The balance issues were extreme.

Anyone remember the sweeping nerfs that went through that game? EVERY PATCH!

WooHoo! They hade 44 Classes!

And they couldnt EVER balance them for $#@!

 

Oh and BTW.. Elder Scrolls games arent supposed to have Classes

Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

5/28/12 11:19:38 AM#82
Originally posted by Brenelael

 DAoC with an Elder Scrolls paint job will not be as successful as you may think if at the most 250k DAoC fans are going to save it.  Elder Scrolls fans expect a MMO that is at it's core what made the single player games great only modified to allow for more players. A DAoC framework is the polar opposite of what fans expect. I honestly can't see how this game will be successful in a modern MMO market.

 

Bren

 Take a look at how long this group has been sitting around waiting for funding to get a project actually going...you know damn well that they were pushing for a DAOC2, since the heads of the company are from DAOC...it has been so long since DAOC dropped in popularity that the corporate dogs in charge felt they wouldnt make as much money as they could if they took the TES name instead.

Gawd, the very idea of a TES MMO made by someone other than Bethesda pisses me off to no end...

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  Beiloch

Novice Member

Joined: 2/01/12
Posts: 74

5/28/12 11:19:55 AM#83
Originally posted by PyrateLV

The thread Title should be - The Elder Scrolls Online: Tab Targeting the MMO Market

 

Tab targetting and copying GW2/TSW combat/hotbars. All I need to hear to write this off until well after its released. I can't imagine anything that could redeem it.

When are people going to copy DCUO/TERA combat and add some good content to it so we can make a decent MMO? Does it really have to be one or the other? Whats sad is a tab targetting game could be fitted to have decent targetting system: Get rid of ALL target keys and force the player to 'maintain' their target with a reticle. Then you just need some overt telegraphing for attacks and ways to dodge them.

Tab targetting is ancient.

GW2 and TSW absolutely DO NOT have action combat.

  GreenishBlue

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/12
Posts: 266

5/28/12 11:20:57 AM#84
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc

the great politicians bretons, allied with the proud and strong redguards to put an ORC as a emperor is enough for me.....

 

... not as bad as having a Khajiit as the emperor :b

  TsaboHavoc

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/11
Posts: 340

5/28/12 11:22:35 AM#85
Originally posted by GreenishBlue
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc

the great politicians bretons, allied with the proud and strong redguards to put an ORC as a emperor is enough for me.....

 

... not as bad as having a Khajiit as the emperor :b

lol legalization of moon sugar ;p

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

5/28/12 11:24:52 AM#86
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
Originally posted by GreenishBlue
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc

the great politicians bretons, allied with the proud and strong redguards to put an ORC as a emperor is enough for me.....

 

... not as bad as having a Khajiit as the emperor :b

lol legalization of moon sugar ;p

 Maybe if more of us were using moon sugar we would like the idea of TESO...

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  PyrateLV

Tipster

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 1118

5/28/12 11:26:13 AM#87
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
Originally posted by GreenishBlue
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc

the great politicians bretons, allied with the proud and strong redguards to put an ORC as a emperor is enough for me.....

 

... not as bad as having a Khajiit as the emperor :b

lol legalization of moon sugar ;p

 Maybe if more of us were using moon sugar we would like the idea of TESO...

The Devs at Zenimax must be just spun on the stuff then

Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  TsaboHavoc

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/11
Posts: 340

5/28/12 11:29:23 AM#88
Originally posted by PyrateLV
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
Originally posted by GreenishBlue
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc

the great politicians bretons, allied with the proud and strong redguards to put an ORC as a emperor is enough for me.....

 

... not as bad as having a Khajiit as the emperor :b

lol legalization of moon sugar ;p

 Maybe if more of us were using moon sugar we would like the idea of TESO...

The Devs at Zenimax must be just spun on the stuff then

not even all moon sugar present in Elsweyr could make me buy this game

  GreenishBlue

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/12
Posts: 266

5/28/12 11:32:19 AM#89
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
Originally posted by GreenishBlue
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc

the great politicians bretons, allied with the proud and strong redguards to put an ORC as a emperor is enough for me.....

 

... not as bad as having a Khajiit as the emperor :b

lol legalization of moon sugar ;p

 Maybe if more of us were using moon sugar we would like the idea of TESO...

That would be a nice perk if a Khajiit is crowned the emperor: make moonsugar trade legal.

  PyrateLV

Tipster

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 1118

5/28/12 11:39:04 AM#90
Originally posted by GreenishBlue
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
Originally posted by GreenishBlue
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc

the great politicians bretons, allied with the proud and strong redguards to put an ORC as a emperor is enough for me.....

 

... not as bad as having a Khajiit as the emperor :b

lol legalization of moon sugar ;p

 Maybe if more of us were using moon sugar we would like the idea of TESO...

That would be a nice perk if a Khajiit is crowned the emperor: make moonsugar trade legal.

It will never happen.

Zenimax will want a Teen rating from ESRB. Remember, they are "targeting" the mainstream MMO "Fun for the whole Family Elder Scrolls!" audience.

That means No Drugs. Alcohol will probably be out too

No Skooma For You!

Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  Uhwop

Elite Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1656

5/28/12 12:08:22 PM#91
Originally posted by Comaf
Originally posted by dimasok
As long as its not a WoW clone like SWToR ill be happy. Give me DAOC type RvR as well as decent dynamic combat quests, good combat (mounted too) and a live community and ill be all over it

Absolutely!  I'll agree to that.  I'll happily ignore the morons that call this a theme park clone, yet ignore (a) the classes are different in each faction - ever seen that before? (b) there are three factions - other than Dark Age, where have you seen that in a medieval fantasy mmorpg?

 

All these people complaining here are the same folks who put SW:TOR and GW2 on a pedestal.  They are the first to overhype a cheese mmorpg project that has nothing new to offer the genre.  Then, along comes ESO, and suddenly these folks become a vocal community.  What are you all afraid of?  Afraid that three faction mmorpg with NO mirrored classes will kick the living crap out of all the other titles?

 

Get used to it.  Dark Age of Camelot has 24 races and 44 classes across three uniquely different realms.  They lifted the bar higher than the theme parked Rift, or video game designed GW2 could ever imagine.  Now ESO will fulfill what many of us knew could be done in 2001.

 

 

 It's interesting.  I keep seeing some of you repeat the exact same thing over and over, and I'm not talking about the part were you call everyone morons; good job with that.

A few of you keep saying that the same people who are upset with what they're reading about TESO are the same peopel that hype every other game.

Strange how all these other games are hyped, and here comes a TESO game that the devs have openly said will play just like all  these other games, you would expect all these people who hyped those games would be hyping this one? 

I"m not sure how you guys come to this oh so profound logical conclusion that people who would hype all those other games are the ones not hyping this one.

Or how every new MMO that gets released always manages to get a bunch of hype behind it, yet here we have an MMO announced and NO ONE, but like a whopping half dozen of you here are hyping it.

It's a boggling reality that some people live in if they're following the reaction to the announcment of this game, and think that the magority of people want to play an ES mmo that plays like a DAoC/ WoW/ GW/ ToR mashup.

I have to wonder why you don't just go and play that game you keep telling us it he best MMO ever made.  I don't know who told you that DAoC is no longer running, but they lied to you.  Why do you need a new one if that one is so good?

BTW, Firor is responcible for every expansion that all the DAoC fans claim ruined the game. He's responcible for bringing all the EQ gameplay in order to attract more people to the game.  Why  would he do that?  Because DAoC was never able to even surpas UO in subscriptions.  Even SWG got more players then DAoC.

You guys have a very strange way of remembering things. 

Oh, and Paul Sage?  Yeah, he became a designer for UO, and then UO had expansions that did things like created a Felluca, and classes.  I absolutely want this guy working on my sandbox game.  You know, a guy who was responcible for basically all the stuff that the original UO fans didn't like. 

It's intersting that these two guys are responcible for TESO, and these two guys are being hpyed by a few of you for why this game will be the bestest ever, and yet they're the two guys responcible for all the things people disliked about the last games they worked for. 

Yup...

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/28/12 12:14:23 PM#92
In these very threads you see the likes of "lol TESO will suck, swtor 2.0, nothing like gw2 the harbinger of world peace and the cure for cancer"

Then you actually read what TESO us doing and it sounds like a BETTER gw2.
Non gameyfied pvp with wow kiddie friendly 2 week reset
Huge open world not all zoned up.
3 times the pve content
Open dungeons
The guilds you can join
Etc..
  Xstatic912

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/20/11
Posts: 367

5/28/12 12:26:13 PM#93
I'll pass pre-judgement in open beta, because you know they can't change much afterwords...
  Benthon

Novice Member

Joined: 1/11/07
Posts: 2132

Even if you can't hear me, you're still wrong.

5/28/12 1:14:38 PM#94

I can't really say I'm excited for this due to the combat nature, exploration, and whatnot. This was probably one of the best opportunities to deviate away from the norm and create something similar to all the other TES games.

Seems like it's going to be a coating of TES with just-another-mmo elements for everythign else.

He who keeps his cool best wins.

  Larsa

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/04
Posts: 992

5/28/12 2:00:24 PM#95
Originally posted by ShakyMo
In these very threads you see the likes of "lol TESO will suck, swtor 2.0, nothing like gw2 the harbinger of world peace and the cure for cancer"

Then you actually read what TESO us doing and it sounds like a BETTER gw2.
Non gameyfied pvp with wow kiddie friendly 2 week reset
Huge open world not all zoned up.
3 times the pve content
Open dungeons
The guilds you can join
Etc..

I would have said it differently, but yes, you are right. Here we have two games to come out in 2012 and 2013 with very comparable feature sets, one gets flamed to hell and the other hyped to heaven. Those are the times ...

I'm a sandbox gamer (like some of you know) and had hoped for more than a themepark but TESO will very probably be the first themepark game I'll buy and play in many, many years. But then I fully expect that a large majority of the posters critical to TESO will buy it too. Many will even pre-order or pre-purchase it to enjoy the marketing campaign Zenimax will call beta-weekend. :)

 

I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

5/28/12 2:20:24 PM#96
Originally posted by Larsa
But then I fully expect that a large majority of the posters critical to TESO will buy it too. Many will even pre-order or pre-purchase it to enjoy the marketing campaign Zenimax will call beta-weekend. :)

 

 Dont hold your breath...You sure dont see Tera selling like hot cakes do you? Yet that game also had a lot of people talking bad about it...and it wasnt a name being bastardized for money so those talking about it werent ardent fans that were pissed.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  heartless

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

5/28/12 2:28:26 PM#97
Originally posted by Larsa
Originally posted by ShakyMo
In these very threads you see the likes of "lol TESO will suck, swtor 2.0, nothing like gw2 the harbinger of world peace and the cure for cancer"

Then you actually read what TESO us doing and it sounds like a BETTER gw2.
Non gameyfied pvp with wow kiddie friendly 2 week reset
Huge open world not all zoned up.
3 times the pve content
Open dungeons
The guilds you can join
Etc..

I would have said it differently, but yes, you are right. Here we have two games to come out in 2012 and 2013 with very comparable feature sets, one gets flamed to hell and the other hyped to heaven. Those are the times ...

I'm a sandbox gamer (like some of you know) and had hoped for more than a themepark but TESO will very probably be the first themepark game I'll buy and play in many, many years. But then I fully expect that a large majority of the posters critical to TESO will buy it too. Many will even pre-order or pre-purchase it to enjoy the marketing campaign Zenimax will call beta-weekend. :)

 

TESO gets flamed because it's deviating too far from what people come to expect from a TES game.

it may have some interesting ideas but it's not a true TES game. That's why I have an issue with it. Even the art style is not TES.

  Netspook

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/01/07
Posts: 1440

5/28/12 8:26:07 PM#98
Originally posted by Comaf

Matt Firor
 

 

For all you Dark Age of Camelot fans (including myself), this name should ring a bell.  The very fact that the man who helped developed the first few years of Dark Age of Camelot, Matt Firor, is here as lead producer on this project -  just floors me.  I never could have imagined that this would come to pass.

 

Many of us in the daoc community over the years have even joked about how amazing it would be to see DAoC with Elder Scrolls concepts and graphics.  And lo and behold, here we are.

 

I can only imagine the stacks of folks who work for other mmorpg titles who are shaking in their boots right now.  Remember, true believers, Dark Age of Camelot was such a threat to the industry (because of how it was conceptualized), that it had to be bought and buried by Electronic Arts.  There was such a worry that Dark Age gamers would leave Warhammer (if there was even so much as an ounce of improvement on the old venerable title), that even when Mythic announced that Dark Age of Camelot would have  a new server (Origin), even THAT got shut down.  There was never any mention later on and since, as to why a server that a majority of the player base voted for, was not put into effect.  Disgusting, really. 

 

By 2009, shortly after the EA buyout of Mythic, a number of Mythic staff were canned.  Warhammer heralded in, with its investors thinking that with Dark Age swept under a rug, there would be plenty of fans shifting to this title.  That of course, happened for just long enough for the DAoC'ers to see that Warhammer was not up to DAoC expectations. 

 

WIth ESO, we will finally get what all of us Dark Age gamers knew was possible all along: a graphically detailed, immersive world, set in Bethesda's Elder Scrolls lore, with the same level of intelligence that formed the varying classes and races of the 3 faction ground breaker that was Dark Age.

 

For folks who are bashing this title (boggles me), why not support the fact that so few developers have the vision and intelligence to go three faction with unique (and here's the key, this isn't just server v server v server pvp), there are unique classes and races in EACH faction.  This alone is never done. 

 

The entire problem with the industry has been its slip into mediocrity.  Why play Rift, when I can play WoW?  Why play GW2 when I can play WoW?  Why play any "new" release, when I can play an mmorpg that offers the same + more and has a far better population? 

 

Now I can say, why play WoW, if we have Elder Scrolls Online.   At last.

 

This means nothing at all. Check up on ie Richard Garriott and Brad McQuaid.

No matter how great a dev was in the past, that may not mean anything at all for their next projects. I suggest you hype the game for what the game may offer, not for who's behind it.

  PyrateLV

Tipster

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 1118

5/28/12 8:57:51 PM#99
Originally posted by Netspook
Originally posted by Comaf

Matt Firor

 

This means nothing at all. Check up on ie Richard Garriott and Brad McQuaid.

No matter how great a dev was in the past, that may not mean anything at all for their next projects.

IE- Mark Jacobs. Lead Dev for Mythic on DAOC and.........Warhammer Online

Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  Brenelael

Guide

Joined: 10/19/06
Posts: 3953

Pointing out the Obvious to the Oblivious since 2006

5/28/12 9:19:49 PM#100
Originally posted by Netspook
Originally posted by Comaf

Matt Firor
 

 

For all you Dark Age of Camelot fans (including myself), this name should ring a bell.  The very fact that the man who helped developed the first few years of Dark Age of Camelot, Matt Firor, is here as lead producer on this project -  just floors me.  I never could have imagined that this would come to pass.

 

Many of us in the daoc community over the years have even joked about how amazing it would be to see DAoC with Elder Scrolls concepts and graphics.  And lo and behold, here we are.

 

I can only imagine the stacks of folks who work for other mmorpg titles who are shaking in their boots right now.  Remember, true believers, Dark Age of Camelot was such a threat to the industry (because of how it was conceptualized), that it had to be bought and buried by Electronic Arts.  There was such a worry that Dark Age gamers would leave Warhammer (if there was even so much as an ounce of improvement on the old venerable title), that even when Mythic announced that Dark Age of Camelot would have  a new server (Origin), even THAT got shut down.  There was never any mention later on and since, as to why a server that a majority of the player base voted for, was not put into effect.  Disgusting, really. 

 

By 2009, shortly after the EA buyout of Mythic, a number of Mythic staff were canned.  Warhammer heralded in, with its investors thinking that with Dark Age swept under a rug, there would be plenty of fans shifting to this title.  That of course, happened for just long enough for the DAoC'ers to see that Warhammer was not up to DAoC expectations. 

 

WIth ESO, we will finally get what all of us Dark Age gamers knew was possible all along: a graphically detailed, immersive world, set in Bethesda's Elder Scrolls lore, with the same level of intelligence that formed the varying classes and races of the 3 faction ground breaker that was Dark Age.

 

For folks who are bashing this title (boggles me), why not support the fact that so few developers have the vision and intelligence to go three faction with unique (and here's the key, this isn't just server v server v server pvp), there are unique classes and races in EACH faction.  This alone is never done. 

 

The entire problem with the industry has been its slip into mediocrity.  Why play Rift, when I can play WoW?  Why play GW2 when I can play WoW?  Why play any "new" release, when I can play an mmorpg that offers the same + more and has a far better population? 

 

Now I can say, why play WoW, if we have Elder Scrolls Online.   At last.

 

This means nothing at all. Check up on ie Richard Garriott and Brad McQuaid.

No matter how great a dev was in the past, that may not mean anything at all for their next projects. I suggest you hype the game for what the game may offer, not for who's behind it.

Not to mention that Dark Age of Camelot was not as popular as he remembers it. Like I said before Elder Scrolls fans want an Elder Scrolls like game. DAoC while a great game for it's time is the polar opposite of everything that makes a TES game what it is at it's core. Which fan group should they be looking to attract? The barely 250 thousand DAoC fans or the well over 10 million fans that bought TES V: Skyrim? To me this should be a no brainer.

 

Edit: Oh and on a side note... After the Devs at Zenimax Online have been reading threads like this one for a couple of weeks now on their own forum and others I can picture Todd Howard with a big ass grin on his face telling them, "I tried to tell you but you just wouldn't listen"... LOL

 

Bren

while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}

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