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5/27/12 2:44:43 PM#81
Originally posted by Gdemami So people who invest their own time and money feel less pressure if a part of the money isn't theirs? You must live in a world populated mostly by assholes because that's not the way it works on my planet. "Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice." ~Greys Law |
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5/27/12 2:48:40 PM#82
Of course, they don't feel the same pressure. That is what whole Kickstarter is about. You do not think much about throwing 5USD donation but you would think hell a lot if you had to donate 10k USD. And that is what Kickstarter and projects on there rely on - people not thinking too much about their money... |
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Loktofeit
 Elite Member
Joined: 1/13/10
EVE in 2013 - DUST 514, CSM8, Fanfest, 10th Anniversary, Uprising, Odyssey. Gonna be a good year :) |
5/27/12 3:23:55 PM#83
Originally posted by AticusWelles It's neither. It's that there are a lot of posters who think that because they scribbled something in Word and called it a Design Document they are now a 'Game Designer' or 'Game Developer'. It's an amazing level of arrogance. I played Minecraft a lot, so I probably should start calling myself an Architectural Engineer.
filmoret: One thing I have never figured out is why the game devs hardly ever fix simple problems that arise. It is like they don't care about the pvp community. Nitth: What makes you so sure its a simple fix? filmoret: Because most of them are. Sometimes its just changing a number in a code string other times its creating a few variables. However none of them should take over a few hours of coding. |
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5/27/12 3:31:32 PM#84
Originally posted by Unkillable It's not like a single person wrote them a check for $100,000. Paying a small amount of money to see created that seems like it might be cool isn't that big of a deal unless you pinch every penny you earn. |
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5/27/12 3:35:33 PM#85
Originally posted by Loktofeit If you design something, I'm pretty sure that makes you a designer, by its very definition. If you develop a game, that makes you a game developer. It's kindof in its very definiton as well.
Perhaps you're confused and don't understand the use of adjectives? "Expert Game Designer" or "Amateur Game Developer." To be a Game Designer, you need only to design something related to gaming. To be a Game Developer, you need to develop some type of game.
Despite what your arrogance wants you to believe, scribbles in Word called a Design Document DOES make them a Game Designer. I'm amazed at the level of arrogance you have to think otherwise. Once you familiarize yourself with the purpose of Adjectives, perhaps by attending an English 101 course at your local community college, then you will understand it would only be arrogant to call one's self an "Expert Game Developer" or "Experienced Game Designer" or Arrogant Adjective + Correct Noun.
TLDR: Herp Derp once again you're wrong, and it is YOU who is arrogant, thinking little of others who are actually correct. |
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Loktofeit
Elite Member
Joined: 1/13/10
EVE in 2013 - DUST 514, CSM8, Fanfest, 10th Anniversary, Uprising, Odyssey. Gonna be a good year :) |
5/27/12 3:37:06 PM#86
Originally posted by LeegOfChldrn So, you agree that I'm an Architectural Engineer. Thanks! I don't think other Architectural Engineers will agree, but I value your input more. Cheers!
filmoret: One thing I have never figured out is why the game devs hardly ever fix simple problems that arise. It is like they don't care about the pvp community. Nitth: What makes you so sure its a simple fix? filmoret: Because most of them are. Sometimes its just changing a number in a code string other times its creating a few variables. However none of them should take over a few hours of coding. |
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5/27/12 3:42:06 PM#87
Originally posted by Loktofeit Horrible comparison, as always, since they actually have schools for Architectural Engineering, counselrs and board members who license people. Contrary to your belief, they do not have a Game Design Board at prestigious univeristies who dictate who is licensed as a designer.
You are also mixing Science and Art. Also yes, if you engineer architecture, then that makes you an architectural engineer. Are you a licensed or qualified one? Those are adjectives, once again! However, you have to look into the definition. To design something, you need only dribble on paper. To actually build it, is something else. If Architectural Designer is different from Architectural Engineer, then perhaps you're only a designer. If you were to add an appropriate ADJECTIVE to your "Architectural Engineer" then yes, most will agree. You do not have to be licensed or qualified to be a "Unskilled Architectural Engineer" or "Amateur Architectural Engineer".
TLDR: Architecture and Game Development aren't the same things, despite how you're so arrogant you think they are. Changing the subject only brings more herp to your derp. TLDR 2: Adjectives seem to give you a lot of trouble. |
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5/27/12 3:43:48 PM#88
Originally posted by Loktofeit That's nothing, I just graduated the Hannibal Lector School of Brain Surgery. Hop on the table, please? |
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5/27/12 3:45:59 PM#89
Originally posted by Icewhite Even the greatest of surgeries couldn't fix Loktofeit's brain. Arrogance and blindness lie in the heart, not the brain! We need a heart surgeon...and preferably one that doesnt eat him. |
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5/27/12 3:49:08 PM#90
Originally posted by Gdemami I'm the most cynical curmudgeon I know but that far surpasses anything I could imagine. It would be a poorer world indeed if everyone felt that way. In my experience when people are trusted they will usually step up to try and justify that trust. The ones that won't are pretty obvious about it. "Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice." ~Greys Law |
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5/27/12 3:49:21 PM#91
Originally posted by LeegOfChldrn Oh, you're both flexing your condescension muscles, and doing that calling each other poopoohead thing. Sorry we tried to derail it into something less toxic. Carry on. |
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5/27/12 3:51:34 PM#92
Originally posted by zymurgeist People definitely feel responsibility when part of the money isn't theres and they're held to a social obligation to finish their work or spend the money properly. Unless the team's original goal was to scam people and take their money for their own use, then the people ARE obligated to act appropriately and DO feel responsibility. Whether or not that act on those feelings is more or less their reality, but you are certainly right-- they do try to justify the trust. |
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5/27/12 3:54:07 PM#93
Originally posted by Icewhite That's merely your opinion that we're both being condescending. In reality Loktofeilt is ragging on people who technically ARE game designers or game developers, simply because they aren't funded by multi-million dollar budgets or have tons of experience in the field. It isn't condescending to defend someone from a user who is consistently wrong and irrational.
What part of game design requires someone to do more than design in relation to gaming? Exactly. He is wrong, and should be shunned for it. SHUNNNN!!!!!!!!!! |
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5/27/12 3:59:00 PM#94
Originally posted by LeegOfChldrn I don't think Loktofeit is the one being arrogant. Only because they, per your expression, scribbled something in word does not makes them designers. You actually need to design a finished game, not lie on your sofa and theorycraft some bunch of nonesense. The fact that you even suggested otherwise shows how little you value actual effort of real designers from those who never get any further than Word docs, the difference between the two is as big as kids playing with a firetruck and actual firemen. Now, I am not saying anything about those behind pathfinder, just responding to your Word argument. |
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Loktofeit
Elite Member
Joined: 1/13/10
EVE in 2013 - DUST 514, CSM8, Fanfest, 10th Anniversary, Uprising, Odyssey. Gonna be a good year :) |
5/27/12 4:03:04 PM#95
Originally posted by Icewhite Word. That would be a rather badass looking certificate to have on one's wall. :)
To get back to my original point, when assessing projects to fund, the accomplishments and actual industry knowledge of the team can provide a strong indication of the chance of the project to come to fruition. What teams have they worked on in the past? What titles have they brought to market? What kind of following do they have?
filmoret: One thing I have never figured out is why the game devs hardly ever fix simple problems that arise. It is like they don't care about the pvp community. Nitth: What makes you so sure its a simple fix? filmoret: Because most of them are. Sometimes its just changing a number in a code string other times its creating a few variables. However none of them should take over a few hours of coding. |
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5/27/12 6:13:18 PM#96
Originally posted by Gdemami Irrespective of the reason why, if they pull off a game I enjoy, then it was money well spent. If not, then I'm not out any amount that I could take with me to the grave. One thing you are forgetting with respect to these two titles. Especially in the case of those of us who have wanted a sandbox game since SOE took the real SWG away, is that we haven't been playing the themeparks we "loved the sound of". We have been playing themparks because that's all that was being made with any measure of polish. It's like buying a Pepsi when what you really wanted was a Coke and that Pepsi turned out to be flat. "Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..." |
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5/27/12 6:28:56 PM#97
Originally posted by Unkillable
Yes, I saw your apology. Good for you. I didn't read it before I made my response as it was below the post I was responding too. As for flaming, I'm not flaming. I'm just pointing out facts. You'd really know if I was flaming. And I'd be banned. Very rough criticism? Sure. Flaming? No. No, they don't. Any fool that would not go the the actual freaking website of the company they are about to give money to for information gathering...well...they deserve the dunce cap they get. As I said, if you had read all of the developer blogs that are available on www.goblinworks.com/blog plus the information on KS all your concerns you listed in the first post would have been answered. Now, I can't speak for EoC as I am not following it. However, if I were going to make a post about them I would certainly read their ENTIRE website so that I wouldn't look like an uninformed muckraker. I never said you couldn't have an opinion. Just know that if you post a half-arsed researched opinion that people who are informed are going to call you on it. It's nothing personal. "Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..." |
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5/27/12 6:58:28 PM#98
Irrespective of the amount you donate, principle remains the same. Donating is bad for the business. Irrespective of the reason why, you still find said themeparks worth your money. And that is all what matters in the business. |
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5/27/12 7:11:23 PM#99
Originally posted by Royalkin This in Green. Id much rather throw $100 or more at The Repopulation than $60 +$15mo at SWTOR. Why? Because A&B are at least trying to be innovative and expand the genre as opposed to just milking it. Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR |
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5/27/12 8:50:47 PM#100
The amounts being donated and used on Kickstarter are not having any impact on the industry. The smallest MMORPG's budget dwarfs nearly every project on Kickstarter. The only thing it might have an impact on is getting smaller scale games built by people who otherwise would not even attempt such projects because of the funding. As far as donating being bad for the overall business, what is the historical precedent you're using to determine this? Join the League For Gamers. |
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