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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Replace the responsibles Asap....500k+ lost subs and counting ? Bye Zoeller..

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82 posts found
  busdriver

Novice Member

Joined: 5/17/06
Posts: 923

5/25/12 5:05:27 AM#21
Originally posted by Chrome1980
Originally posted by busdriver
Originally posted by Chrome1980
Originally posted by mindw0rk

Honestly I dont feel sorry for ToR. Bioware had all the power and resources to make a huge splash in MMO genre. And what we've got? Another "same old shit" theme park? Now TES Online going same path.

I want all those big companies who choose cloned template  for their big MMOs to fail miserably. Maybe then we'll see some good experiments and genre moving forward

TES has more in common with GW2 and has no resemblance to SWTOR. I have no idea from where you got the idea that TES is goign the same path.

Total solo main story line for one.

So does GW2 and TSW, does that mean both these games are going down the same path as SWTOR?


GW2 is pretty much what the public/fans were expecting/hoping for from a Guilds War game. No idea what TSW is, don't care either.

TESO is, in spirit, the total opposite of Elder Scrolls games. It completely ignores everything that makes TES series great. TESO had a golden opportunity to show what MMO's can be if done right. Instead, they chose to make yet another fucking themepark grinder.

  MosesZD

Novice Member

Joined: 2/10/12
Posts: 1407

5/25/12 6:13:44 AM#22
Originally posted by Shazknee

It's too late for SWTOR tbh, no mmo ever made as strong a comeback, as SWTOR need to do to satisfy the investors.

 

The game won't change muh from what it is now, sure you'' get new raids, new warzones, some new gear and more legacy fluff etc. etc. they might aslo change the space part of it, but in the end, it'll take them so much time, that they'll have lost more subs by then.

 

In all honesty, the makers of Rift should have gotten the franchise, it's simply a better game and the crew behind it are vastly superior, and I didnt even like Rift that much.

 

Look at WoW, alot has changed but then again it hasnt, classes have been tweaked a million of times, new raids levels and so on, but in the end, you're doing the same stuff you did 1 year after release, with a twist, it's the same deal with SWTOR, you'll be doing the same stuff for years, perhaps with a twist, there won't be any fundemental changes to the game, which is where the game really has it's issues, the terrible server population is just a symptom of the issues the actual game has got.

 

Sorry, dude.   But Rift did the same thing.   It's player base is a fraction of what it was when it opened.    You don't go from the #4 most played game on XFire to the #75 most played game unless there are problems with player retention.

  MosesZD

Novice Member

Joined: 2/10/12
Posts: 1407

5/25/12 6:19:03 AM#23
Originally posted by DeniZg

Although I would like to see it happen, it won't. Even if you replace lead game designer, PVP designer etc., what can be saved?

Current game systems just don't allow any radical changes to the game. You will not see massive world PVP batlles due to engine limitations. They are still struggling with character transfers and I'm not even sure they can transfer lvl50 chars on PTR. LFG system is still not implemented and even if it was in right now, who can you find on empty servers? Still no ranked warzones and no news on them.

Personally, I would like to see something happen with this game, preferably some magical fix, but it's not going to happen. Alternatively, it would be better for players to let it completely sink ASAP, beacuse current state of the game will just leach the subs from active subscribers with no long term future for the game.

 

Yeah, I thought that was a colossal failure.    Over 50% of the servers do not get out of light.    Not light most of the time, thats another 35% or so.   But never out of light.

 

Yet a single-server LFG is going to help?    I just laughed.   The SWTOR devs are just plain stupid...   Everytime they try to do something, it blows up in their faces.

  MosesZD

Novice Member

Joined: 2/10/12
Posts: 1407

5/25/12 6:46:52 AM#24
Originally posted by Portland

Yes, thats what i want, the main  $cash$ investors of SWTOR should replace the complete lead staff of SWTOR´s marketing and design team.

The "money givers" should do that as fast as possible because with the current marketing, design and developement responsibles they have people that all go into the wrong direction and in addition dont even see that. These responsibles fail completly  to accept reality and that they have already lost more than 500k++ sub´s.

This game needs fresh meat on the top of the leading positions, they current leading persons are already burned out and blind, not realizing the reality and that they better take part in the team some stairs lower.

This game is good and can be turned into a cash cow, even an 18 year old student would know better what to do to safe this game..

 

My guess is that the current loss isnt 400k anymore its more like 600k-800k+ considering that BW already fires some persons.

In the company i work for , the consquences would be 100% clear... i would dare to say that our lead employees would take their hats and leave by themselfs....

 

Sigh....   You guys are so not accountants...     And it's kind of cute...   But then it's the war of correcting perceptions...

 

'Decline in subs -- EA's soft sell of the their huge contraction:'  

Prior-period ending subs - current period ending subs = delcine in subs.   1.7 million - 1.3 million = 400K.

 

This is what they want you to see.  Because it hides the truth of the churn.   What is actually going on:

 

Total quarterly loss in subscriptions:  Prior-period ending subs + new subs - current period ending subs = total quarterly loss in subs.    1.7 million + 500K new units - 1.3 million = 900K.

 

They lost 900K of 2.2 million accounts.     But no manager or executive wants to go the board and say we lost 900k customers, which was 43% of our total base, in 70 days.    So they manipulate the perceptions...    400K sounds a crap-load better than losing 900K.   And having smaller drop (400k/1700k (24%))  looks a lot better than a big drop (900k/2200k (43%)).

 

Sadly, most of the people on the board of directors will be fooled by that.   Most of the public will be fooled by that.  Most of the analysts will be fooled by that.  And to the embarrasment of my profession, most of the CPAs will be fooled by that as well even though we spent years in college learning and applying the second way....   People just do not dig into the details like they should.    And this lack of curiosity...    Well, that's how get Ponzi schemes, Enron and all the rest.   The information is there, but you have to look...   And people don't...

 

 

 

 

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 9944

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

5/25/12 6:54:39 AM#25


Originally posted by MosesZD

Originally posted by Portland Yes, thats what i want, the main  $cash$ investors of SWTOR should replace the complete lead staff of SWTOR´s marketing and design team. The "money givers" should do that as fast as possible because with the current marketing, design and developement responsibles they have people that all go into the wrong direction and in addition dont even see that. These responsibles fail completly  to accept reality and that they have already lost more than 500k++ sub´s. This game needs fresh meat on the top of the leading positions, they current leading persons are already burned out and blind, not realizing the reality and that they better take part in the team some stairs lower. This game is good and can be turned into a cash cow, even an 18 year old student would know better what to do to safe this game..   My guess is that the current loss isnt 400k anymore its more like 600k-800k+ considering that BW already fires some persons. In the company i work for , the consquences would be 100% clear... i would dare to say that our lead employees would take their hats and leave by themselfs....
 

Sigh....   You guys are so not accountants...     And it's kind of cute...   But then it's the war of correcting perceptions...

 

'Decline in subs -- EA's soft sell of the their huge contraction:'  

Prior-period ending subs - current period ending subs = delcine in subs.   1.7 million - 1.3 million = 400K.

 

This is what they want you to see.  Because it hides the truth of the churn.   What is actually going on:

 

Total quarterly loss in subscriptions:  Prior-period ending subs + new subs - current period ending subs = total quarterly loss in subs.    1.7 million + 500K new units - 1.3 million = 900K.

 

They lost 900K of 2.2 million accounts.     But no manager or executive wants to go the board and say we lost 900k customers, which was 43% of our total base, in 70 days.    So they manipulate the perceptions...    400K sounds a crap-load better than losing 900K.   And having smaller drop (400k/1700k (24%))  looks a lot better than a big drop (900k/2200k (43%)).

 

Sadly, most of the people on the board of directors will be fooled by that.   Most of the public will be fooled by that.  Most of the analysts will be fooled by that.  And to the embarrasment of my profession, most of the CPAs will be fooled by that as well even though we spent years in college learning and applying the second way....   People just do not dig into the details like they should.    And this lack of curiosity...    Well, that's how get Ponzi schemes, Enron and all the rest.   The information is there, but you have to look...   And people don't...

 

 

 

 




I'm not a CPA or even trained as one. I did sleep in a Holiday Inn a few times. I've mentioned in a couple of posts that they've lost 50% of their players since they've launched. It didn't seem all that relevant when they lost the players. The point was that the 6 month mark seems to be the 50% point for a lot of games. There are a couple notable exceptions but overall...6 months = 50% of the people who bought the game aren't playing any longer. That's not exceptional, that's pretty normal.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Volkon

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3804

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

5/25/12 7:05:16 AM#26
Originally posted by MosesZD

 

Sigh....   You guys are so not accountants...     And it's kind of cute...   But then it's the war of correcting perceptions...

 

'Decline in subs -- EA's soft sell of the their huge contraction:'  

Prior-period ending subs - current period ending subs = delcine in subs.   1.7 million - 1.3 million = 400K.

 

This is what they want you to see.  Because it hides the truth of the churn.   What is actually going on:

 

Total quarterly loss in subscriptions:  Prior-period ending subs + new subs - current period ending subs = total quarterly loss in subs.    1.7 million + 500K new units - 1.3 million = 900K.

  

No more maths for me before coffee. I am embarassed.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  Metentso

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/14/10
Posts: 1457

5/25/12 8:23:08 AM#27
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by MosesZD

 

Sigh....   You guys are so not accountants...     And it's kind of cute...   But then it's the war of correcting perceptions...

 

'Decline in subs -- EA's soft sell of the their huge contraction:'  

Prior-period ending subs - current period ending subs = delcine in subs.   1.7 million - 1.3 million = 400K.

 

This is what they want you to see.  Because it hides the truth of the churn.   What is actually going on:

 

Total quarterly loss in subscriptions:  Prior-period ending subs + new subs - current period ending subs = total quarterly loss in subs.    1.7 million + 500K new units - 1.3 million = 900K.

  

Last time I did "accountant" stuff, 1700K + 500K = 1750K, - 1300 K = 450K.

 

Before you crap on other people's math knowledge you need to learn 2 math first.

lol what?

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 9944

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

5/25/12 8:26:44 AM#28


Originally posted by Metentso

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by MosesZD   Sigh....   You guys are so not accountants...     And it's kind of cute...   But then it's the war of correcting perceptions...   'Decline in subs -- EA's soft sell of the their huge contraction:'   Prior-period ending subs - current period ending subs = delcine in subs.   1.7 million - 1.3 million = 400K.   This is what they want you to see.  Because it hides the truth of the churn.   What is actually going on:   Total quarterly loss in subscriptions:  Prior-period ending subs + new subs - current period ending subs = total quarterly loss in subs.    1.7 million + 500K new units - 1.3 million = 900K.   
Last time I did "accountant" stuff, 1700K + 500K = 1750K, - 1300 K = 450K.   Before you crap on other people's math knowledge you need to learn 2 math first.
lol what?



It's 'wut', not 'what'. As in, "lol wut?" or "lolwut?". We're butchering math and the English language. Let's not stoop to butchering lol speak.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  User Deleted
5/25/12 8:31:15 AM#29
Originally posted by Volkon

Last time I did "accountant" stuff, 1700K + 500K = 1750K, - 1300 K = 450K.

 

Before you crap on other people's math knowledge you need to learn 2 math first.

Yeah, you really showed him math and stuff.

Do some more pls!

  erictlewis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/08/08
Posts: 3047

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results.

5/25/12 8:34:47 AM#30

You guys want to see the math then you should look at this site,  http://www.torstatus.net/shards/us

There is a thread in swtor forums the lady running it is a mathematician.  She thinks there is 700-800 k subs with only 76k players online at one time 10% of the total population.  I disagree somewhat.  I think the total population is about 500k with 30% online at one time.  Either way you look at it 76k spread out over 214 servers is not good, and they are still bleeding subs.

Also she Paige made it to this article about subs  http://www.shacknews.com/article/73961/report-average-old-republic-server-has-less-than-350-players   same lady running the thread.

Anyway it is bad news for swtor,  There is no way they have 1.3 million active subs based on all that math. Like I said I suspect 500k and dropping.

 

 

  rawfox

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/03/09
Posts: 567

5/25/12 8:35:06 AM#31

...

1700K + 500K = 1750K

mhm2 ..

 

 

 

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 9944

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

5/25/12 8:37:55 AM#32


Originally posted by erictlewis
You guys want to see the math then you should look at this site,  http://www.torstatus.net/shards/us

There is a thread in swtor forums the lady running it is a mathematician.  She thinks there is 700-800 k subs with only 76k players online at one time 10% of the total population.  I disagree somewhat.  I think the total population is about 500k with 30% online at one time.  Either way you look at it 76k spread out over 214 servers is not good, and they are still bleeding subs. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=449144&goto=newpostAlso she Paige made it to this article about subs  http://www.shacknews.com/article/73961/report-average-old-republic-server-has-less-than-350-players   same lady running the thread.

Anyway it is bad news for swtor,  There is no way they have 1.3 million active subs based on all that math. Like I said I suspect 500k and dropping.

 

 




Being a mathematician doesn't give her any special insight into how many people are actually logged into each server. If she is going from the server's load to the number of people logged in, she is creating numbers out of the aether to do it.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  erictlewis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/08/08
Posts: 3047

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results.

5/25/12 8:41:41 AM#33
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by erictlewis
You guys want to see the math then you should look at this site,  http://www.torstatus.net/shards/us

 

There is a thread in swtor forums the lady running it is a mathematician.  She thinks there is 700-800 k subs with only 76k players online at one time 10% of the total population.  I disagree somewhat.  I think the total population is about 500k with 30% online at one time.  Either way you look at it 76k spread out over 214 servers is not good, and they are still bleeding subs. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=449144&goto=newpostAlso she Paige made it to this article about subs  http://www.shacknews.com/article/73961/report-average-old-republic-server-has-less-than-350-players   same lady running the thread.

Anyway it is bad news for swtor,  There is no way they have 1.3 million active subs based on all that math. Like I said I suspect 500k and dropping.

 

 

 




Being a mathematician doesn't give her any special insight into how many people are actually logged into each server. If she is going from the server's load to the number of people logged in, she is creating numbers out of the aether to do it.

 

Go read the thread.  The are doing /who and have a spreadsheet set up on her guild forums and the have a lot of folks from different servers inputting info they are finding.   It is just not numbers pulled out of thin air.

  Rekindle

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/05
Posts: 1204

5/25/12 8:43:18 AM#34
Originally posted by mindw0rk

Honestly I dont feel sorry for ToR. Bioware had all the power and resources to make a huge splash in MMO genre. And what we've got? Another "same old shit" theme park? Now TES Online going same path.

I want all those big companies who choose cloned template  for their big MMOs to fail miserably. Maybe then we'll see some good experiments and genre moving forward

me too

  L0C0Man

Novice Member

Joined: 1/30/09
Posts: 918

5/25/12 8:54:59 AM#35
Originally posted by mindw0rk
Originally posted by Chrome1980
Originally posted by mindw0rk

Full loot pvp..lolz

Lol or not but full loot was always big part of TES series. But nooo, they cant do it since its too risky and WoW doesnt have one. Better to play safe...

TES is a single player games so how the hell full loot was only exclusively big part of TES? every single player game has full loot.

/facepalm.

In Skyrim from any humanoid you loot everything he wears, weapons that he actually used and other stuff that he could carry. 

Remind me how many single player games have this kind of loot system

It's not equivalent to full loot PvP because you can do it but can't have it done to you, at least unless they changed it so that when you die and reload the game you would lose every item, weapon and armor you were carrying. They could make an MMO where you can kill humanoid NPCs and loot everything without having PvP at all and would still be in line with the elder scrolls games (or at least with skyrim that's the only one I've played).

What can men do against such reckless hate?

  Zekiah

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 2527

Hype (noun)
1. to trick; gull.
2. exaggerated publicity; hoopla.
3. swindle, deception, or trick.

5/25/12 8:56:33 AM#36

The game design is faulty, can't change that.

"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 9944

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

5/25/12 8:59:52 AM#37


Originally posted by Rekindle

Originally posted by mindw0rk Honestly I dont feel sorry for ToR. Bioware had all the power and resources to make a huge splash in MMO genre. And what we've got? Another "same old shit" theme park? Now TES Online going same path. I want all those big companies who choose cloned template  for their big MMOs to fail miserably. Maybe then we'll see some good experiments and genre moving forward
me too



You might see some experiments, but you wouldn't see big experiments. No AAA studios would touch the genre. Mortal Online, Darkfall, Dominus (closed), etc. is what you'd see.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  L0C0Man

Novice Member

Joined: 1/30/09
Posts: 918

5/25/12 9:00:20 AM#38
Originally posted by Portland

Yes, thats what i want, the main  $cash$ investors of SWTOR should replace the complete lead staff of SWTOR´s marketing and design team.

The "money givers" should do that as fast as possible because with the current marketing, design and developement responsibles they have people that all go into the wrong direction and in addition dont even see that. These responsibles fail completly  to accept reality and that they have already lost more than 500k++ sub´s.

This game needs fresh meat on the top of the leading positions, they current leading persons are already burned out and blind, not realizing the reality and that they better take part in the team some stairs lower.

This game is good and can be turned into a cash cow, even an 18 year old student would know better what to do to safe this game..

 

My guess is that the current loss isnt 400k anymore its more like 600k-800k+ considering that BW already fires some persons.

In the company i work for , the consquences would be 100% clear... i would dare to say that our lead employees would take their hats and leave by themselfs....

A quick question, purely out of curiosity. You say that even an 18 year old student would know what to do to save the game and turn it into a cash cow... but from what I've read most of the complains are based in inherent design choices that couldn't really be fixed without a more or less massive rewrite of the game.

So in your opinion, what can be done to do exactly that, to bring back a big bulk of the people that left the game, and without alienating and losing the people that are still enjoying the game and paying to play it, and that doesn't involve a complete rewrite of the game that could take years and millions of dollars to do?.

What can men do against such reckless hate?

  Wicoa

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 1569

5/25/12 9:01:28 AM#39

[mod edit]

It puzzles me even today that logic, best practises and consumer focus are still left cold at the table.   Ego, pride and mismanagement are the forefront of these boneheads.  The sad fact is the people pissing this management down the drain earn more money than circa 80% of the population in the world.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 9944

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

5/25/12 9:02:26 AM#40


Originally posted by erictlewis

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by erictlewis You guys want to see the math then you should look at this site,  http://www.torstatus.net/shards/us   There is a thread in swtor forums the lady running it is a mathematician.  She thinks there is 700-800 k subs with only 76k players online at one time 10% of the total population.  I disagree somewhat.  I think the total population is about 500k with 30% online at one time.  Either way you look at it 76k spread out over 214 servers is not good, and they are still bleeding subs. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=449144&goto=newpostAlso she Paige made it to this article about subs  http://www.shacknews.com/article/73961/report-average-old-republic-server-has-less-than-350-players   same lady running the thread. Anyway it is bad news for swtor,  There is no way they have 1.3 million active subs based on all that math. Like I said I suspect 500k and dropping.      
Being a mathematician doesn't give her any special insight into how many people are actually logged into each server. If she is going from the server's load to the number of people logged in, she is creating numbers out of the aether to do it.  
Go read the thread.  The are doing /who and have a spreadsheet set up on her guild forums and the have a lot of folks from different servers inputting info they are finding.   It is just not numbers pulled out of thin air.



Yes it is. Unless she has some sort of inside track into what's happening in the servers, she is getting anecdotal information, and then making up additional information to get subscriber numbers. Just because it's "Math" doesn't make it correct. If she really is a mathematician, as in that's her job, she knows this.

This doesn't mean she's wrong, it just means the methods she's using involves making up information to get a number.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

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