Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by snapfusion

Originally posted by jmcdermottuk

It sounds like a GW2 ripoff, or more preceisely a DAoC ripoff. Not that this is a bad thing, but they should have designed the game with 3 factions from the start. Or planned the 3 server conflicts from the start, like GW2.

 

It looks like an attempt to keep hold of players they know are planning on leaving as soon as GW2 releases by trying to provide them with a similar W v W v W setup in Rift. Can't blame them for trying.

 

So let me see Rift "ripped" this off from GW2 a game that hasnt shipped yet, but they also ripped this off from DAOC but GW2 didnt rip this off from DAOC?  Okay got it.

Or did you mean to say GW2 and Rift ripped this off from DAOC but since Rift has been out for a couple of years then they have ripped it off less that GW2 will have when it finally ships.

Or do you just have a problem with Rift since its not the game your currenly playing and feel the need to trash it?  Probably this.

Your post reaks of some sort of bizzare jealousy, love hate thing.  Maybe Rift (and every other game you dont play aneymore) to you is like some ex girl friend hangup,  The post was very strange but its pretty clear who your new love is, you know that game that ripped off both Rifts dynamic events and DAOC''s three faction server verse server system, and a class system very very simlar to Fallen Earth,  Oh, but in this case its "okay" because thats the game "you" want to play.

 

Lets speak blunty. GW2 already claimed that DAOC was its inspiration, this isnt shocking or new. Rift saw the excitement surrounding GW2 PvP and directly copied the new model - separate instance with 3 factions unrelated to the PvE game .... sounds familiar no?

There is a difference between 'getting inspiration' and a blatant copy. This is the latter, and it reeks of desperation. Although if handled well it would be a good addition to the game, regardless of its origins.

I don't know if you can say that is what happened. I doubt Trion has been working on this for a very short period of time. I don't remember exactly when the details of GW2's WvW came out but it wasn't that long ago, for them to take the details and copy them in this short amount of time is pretty unlikely/remarkable.

Originally posted by Ecoces

Originally posted by Kuppa

It sounds nice but any inmersion aspect of it is completely broken. They streched the story way to thin to accomodate for this.

breaking news ... not too many people actually care about lore in MMOs.

 

Originally 1.7 and now 1.2 million gamers are playing a shitty game called SWTOR with outstanding lore and what was Rifts top population less then 500k?  even though it was much better game wise.  I seriously doubt how anyone can say things like people dont care about lore.  Maybe you dont, but the averageMMO gamer cares greatly for lore.  Remember Red Sweater guy at Blizzcon a few years ago and that whole snafu?  you are sorely mistaken if you think Lore doesnt matter.

Splitting the community per server with different facets has shown not to be a bonus in the long run, UO showed that. They should just launch a PVP servers instead of mixing PVE and PVP on the same server. It also creates a PVPers against the PVE crowd mentality within server communities that lash out at each other over the smallest things.

If it were not for GW2, i'd be all over this with my r40 rogue.

I applaud Trion for instituting something we asked for in beta as a long shot.

Trion is a good company, but all it tells me about them is that they only care about PVP when they absolutely have to and are pushed against the wall. GW2 is thinking about my playstlye right off the bat and have been for 4 years or more. Thats who gets my money now.

Evidently some people don't know how to read...or just /ragepost without reading the article lol.  This was always a plan to implement into the game.  The fact that in the world of telara and I guess you can say, "thier"universe, the rifts cause tears in that plane of existance, which you can step through to alternate realities.  This was ALWAYS planned and is part of the lore...I mean after ~10-30 minutes of playing you help open up a tear and travel back in time....

I'm happy to see this, my only wish is that it was more like DAoC, where the battle never ended.  I guess 40% control in 3 faction and 5000 deaths will take quite awhile.  It'd be renewed like everyday.  I just wish it was static like DAoC where you captured things and it never ended :)

Edit: I miss logging in and looking at the RvR map and say to myself "Those tree huggin hibbies took back thier keeps! /ragekeepcap!"

Originally posted by Gravarg

Evidently some people don't know how to read...or just /ragepost without reading the article lol.  This was always a plan to implement into the game.  The fact that in the world of telara and I guess you can say, "thier"universe, the rifts cause tears in that plane of existance, which you can step through to alternate realities.  This was ALWAYS planned and is part of the lore...I mean after ~10-30 minutes of playing you help open up a tear and travel back in time....

 

I'm happy to see this, my only wish is that it was more like DAoC, where the battle never ended.  I guess 40% control in 3 faction and 5000 deaths will take quite awhile.  It'd be renewed like everyday.  I just wish it was static like DAoC where you captured things and it never ended :)

I know their lore "kind of" allows for stuff like this. But its a bit ridiculous when it gets streched to thin, would you also be ok if one of the tears took you to another reality that's in the wild west?

Rift was marketted as a pve game with a side of pvp. GuildWars is a pvp game with a side of pve. GW2 seems to be more pve than pvp by what I have read so far but I would like to think its more of a pvp game.

Stop playing pve games thinking you are going to get the pvp you want.

That's what's so neat about it though, really they could do anything and make it fit into the lore.  Heck they could make it so you go through a tear and end up in "End of Nations" lol

Originally posted by Soandsoso

Rift was marketted as a pve game with a side of pvp. GuildWars is a pvp game with a side of pve. GW2 seems to be more pve than pvp by what I have read so far but I would like to think its more of a pvp game.

Stop playing pve games thinking you are going to get the pvp you want.

GW2 is still more of a pvp game than pve. Even though they made changes to the way pve works the core mechanics are built for pvp and endgame will most likely be pvp.

Originally posted by Gravarg

That's what's so neat about it though, really they could do anything and make it fit into the lore.  Heck they could make it so you go through a tear and end up in "End of Nations" lol

lol, I don't think haviing a lore that allows for anything is good lore. It breaks any inmersion and becomes more of circus show.

Originally posted by Puremallace

Originally posted by jmcdermottuk

It sounds like a GW2 ripoff, or more preceisely a DAoC ripoff. Not that this is a bad thing, but they should have designed the game with 3 factions from the start. Or planned the 3 server conflicts from the start, like GW2.

 

It looks like an attempt to keep hold of players they know are planning on leaving as soon as GW2 releases by trying to provide them with a similar W v W v W setup in Rift. Can't blame them for trying.

Blizzard had 7 years to figure out how to do what Trion is about to do in a themepark model and even they could not come up with something. People might say it is a rip off, but name another company that released with 2 faction game and then just decided to add another one.

 EQ2.

And it wasn't an  instanced version of a zone.  You actually did a quest to betray your faction and become an outlaw.  You could then stay int he 3rd faction or change sides to the other faction.

SoE just never evolved it beyond that, even though it was a pretty popular feature on the PvP servers.  I think the 3rd faction was even a FFA faction; so you didn't just get a 3rd faction, they gave players FFA pvp as well. 

They even created a city just for the 3rd faction.

This is what I find dissapointing with the Rift version.  It's just an instanced BG, and they keep calling it open world.  If it doesn't have any bearing on the actualy game world, and requires me to enter an instanced version of a single zone, that's not open world, that's just a wintersgrasp type battleground. 

Players weren't asking for an instanced BG that let you choose a faction to play with.  We bombarded them with requests to add a 3rd faction to the actual game world to help improve on the world pvp.  The game lore more then suits the ability to change the dynamic of the game world itself.  They have an entire faction that went back in time, foerever altering the past and future.  You have rifts that don't just open up to other worlds, but entire alternate realities of the same world.

At any point in time they could have written in a 3rd faction, or a dvide within one of the 2 existing faction.  They could have had an alternate Telara were the the Defiant and guardian split never happened, but instead had a kind of merging of minds; were science and religeon were embraced equally and the dragons were defeated.  That faction, while playing with technology to open slivers and explore new worlds comes across our version of Telara and sees the destruction that the war between the guardian and defiant has caused and seeks to bring the two factions together.  Ultimately they become trapped on in our world, but not before they're able to influence members of both the guardians and defiance.  This leads to the ability to undertake a questline that would allow you to change from your current faction to join this new faction that's become trapped on our Telara and wants to end the war between both guardian and defiant, to prevent the dragons from winning.

When your lore revolves entirely around alternate realities and time travel there is nothing you can do that is counter to your lore.  It's already set up to allow for unlimitted possibilities. 

I feel like they were trying for the quickest, easiest way to create 3 faction pvp without having to actually apply any real creativety or content to it.  Ultimately this is why I stopped playing.  The PvP is all about entering an instance, to grind kills for points to purchase gear. 

When they said they had big plans to improve on world pvp, I didn't really expect the big plan to be another instanced WF, because that's not world pvp.

This thread makes me think about something that has been troubling me.

There's a lot of simple minded gamers out there.  I realize that most of these gamers started their mmo experience with wow.  However few would mention it spouting off a list of old school games to be used as a "winning forum argument" in the face of those observations.

Firstly, its impossible for an original IP to "go against lore".  The lore of an original IP is whatever they say it is.  This also holds true for Warcraft.  Going against lore would make sense in Star Wars or Star Trek.  Like seeing an original Enterprise from the Original series in the game when its supposed to take place 50 years after the next generation.  THAT is going against lore.  When you invent the lore in the first place though, lore is whatever you say it is, when you say it is.  Theres nothing from that storyline before you that you really need to adhere to.  Some of you wont understand that.  But someone needed to clarify that in here.

Also saying Trion is desperate is hating for the sake of hating.  Which a lot of american's seem to love to do.  I'd say its more of a national pasttime than baseball is.  It's how so many people I come across battle through insecurity to "look cool".  By trashing something, or someone else.

In reality, Trion is only doing what they've done for months and months since this game launched.  They listened to the players, listened to what they wanted, and then they gave it to them.  There's really no other company out there doing that. 

I have played a lot of games and I have played this one since the start. No matter what you think of the game, just realize how much content Trion has given its players without charging for an expansion. From launch day content till 1.8 (now), over a year later, I have only payed for a sub. That fact alone is a positive.

Impressive.

I may try the game again.

I wonder how big that pvp place will be.

Originally posted by Theocritus

Originally posted by adam_nox

This goes against the game's lore and what they originally planned so much that it's laughable that they try to BS us into thinking they wanted to ever do this.  Truth is they are desperate.

 

What they could have done is just introduce a third faction, and world pvp, without creating 'instances' where you assume a different role.  It sucks for immersion, both due to changing your identity and for leaving the regular gameworld for a fake one.

      Yeah it does scream "scrap the lore, do whatever it takes to keep the playerbase!"

Even haters have to admit Trion has some pretty brilliant minds over there, I don't play Rift any longer but I respect the hell out of them for what they have done right. As for the Lore, well I would say that is to be seen. Knowing Trion they will mess this into the Lore in a very clean smooth way as to add a new chapter to the story rather than scrap the story all together.

Originally posted by BACONX

I have played a lot of games and I have played this one since the start. No matter what you think of the game, just realize how much content Trion has given its players without charging for an expansion. From launch day content till 1.8 (now), over a year later, I have only payed for a sub. That fact alone is a positive.

LOL so true look at EQ ( 15+ expansions ) or Blizzard ( not sure 7? expansions )

Trion announces 3 faction PVP and Trion's ripping off GW2?  Does that mean that any developer who announces 3 faction PVP in the future is cloning GW2 regardless of how 3 faction PVP is implemented? Did ANet invent 3 faction PVP? Is it really that tough a decision to make when giving the players what they want conflicts with the game's lore? There's no contest.....lore or happy gamers? hmm yeah tough one there.  I applaude Trion for doing everything they can to make players happy. This company is a perfect example of "Do what ever it takes to retain and recover our player base"(Yeah FC and EA, I'm looking at both of you) I might actually re sub to Rift if this PVP proves to be as fun as it looks.

Originally posted by cerebrix

This thread makes me think about something that has been troubling me.

 

There's a lot of simple minded gamers out there.  I realize that most of these gamers started their mmo experience with wow.  However few would mention it spouting off a list of old school games to be used as a "winning forum argument" in the face of those observations.

 I have seen this for a few years now, and have watched it get worse and worse every  year. It terrifys me the continued and compounding deterioration of our young people is becoming. I tend to blame it on the public education system, the parent's lack of involvement with their own children, or some secret agenda of the government to create a new slave class compliant lemming mentality. However I am starting to think it may actually go deeper than that into something like genetic failure or enviromental contamination.

Leading up to the 80's every generation was showing improved intellect over the generation before, but since then we have show a steady loss of intellect in each generation. And for clarification I am breaking generations into 10 year blocks. And yes, I understand that a real generation is more like 20-25 years, breaking it into 10 year blocks makes it easier to track and see the very real and noticable pattern in testing.

Firstly, its impossible for an original IP to "go against lore".  The lore of an original IP is whatever they say it is.  This also holds true for Warcraft.  Going against lore would make sense in Star Wars or Star Trek.  Like seeing an original Enterprise from the Original series in the game when its supposed to take place 50 years after the next generation.  THAT is going against lore.  When you invent the lore in the first place though, lore is whatever you say it is, when you say it is.  Theres nothing from that storyline before you that you really need to adhere to.  Some of you wont understand that.  But someone needed to clarify that in here.

 Can not agree more, it was insane when players attacked Blizzard over what the players felt was a betrayal of the Lore of World of Warcraft, even more so with Rift.

Also saying Trion is desperate is hating for the sake of hating.  Which a lot of american's seem to love to do.  I'd say its more of a national pasttime than baseball is.  It's how so many people I come across battle through insecurity to "look cool".  By trashing something, or someone else.

 Again totally agree, Trion by any industry standard is the most successful IP since WoW, and is doing everything right.

In reality, Trion is only doing what they've done for months and months since this game launched.  They listened to the players, listened to what they wanted, and then they gave it to them.  There's really no other company out there doing that. 

Not 100% accurate, they have gone against player wishes a few times, but managed to bring players around to the decisions they made and the reason they made them.