Originally posted by Nirrtix

Originally posted by TGSOL

Originally posted by SlickShoes

Originally posted by Laughing-man

game made by entirely new team than the one that made D2

game fundamentally differently from D2 in many negative ways

entirely online only play money scheme

real money auction house money scheme

dated graphics that look worse than SC2

lag in single player mode

game beaten by most in less than 20 hours of play time

 

We waited 12 years.

 

Now do you see why we're upset?

How is entirely online play a money scheme? The auction house is a money maker when it launches for them but its not even in game yet. You don't need to pay to play this game like an MMO, its buy once so i fail to see your point here.

Always online = always connected to the RMAH = there's always the temptation to buy/sell something there, in which case Blizzard gets a cut of the profit. If a bunch of players play by themselves or in LAN/Open-BNet multiplyer with no RMAH, that means less money for Blizzard. Also, always online = less piracy.

 

Of course, a business wanting to make as much money as possible is normal and logical; the issue I have is that they like to pretend that this decision was made entirely with user experience in mind, going so far as to lie to their fans and use some truly rediculous arguments to defend their decision.

 

For example, they actually tried to argue that, because some players in D2 regretted making single-player characters and were dissapointed that they had to start new characters in order to play on BNet, removing the ability to play single player entirely for everybody was thus a good and logical decision that would improve everybodies experience. No single player = nobody regrets making a single-player only character = everybody wins! Uhh, wat? Lets apply that logic elsewhere: If some players come to regret purchasing D3, Blizzard should remove entirely the ability for anyone to even buy the game at all. No game = nobody regrets buying it = everybody wins! Blizzard logic!

 

Of course, they don't really believe this nonsense, they're just hoping their fanbase is stupid enough to believe it, because the incredible "we don't just love money, we also love gaming and our fans!" Blizzard that everyone fell in love with is dead. Now it's "we don't just love money, we also love dollars and cash!" Activision-Blizzard. Sad but true.

Hun, Blizzard never lied about anything. They always said it would be online only and there would be a Real Money Auction House. I guess my point is why are people complaining? You should have known.

What they've lied about is not whether or not those features would exist, but the reasons for implementing them. They claim that user experience is at the forefront of their decisions while things like piracy are a non-issue. This is an outright lie. To quote Game Informer in response to Blizzards defense of the always-online requirement, "I have a hard time buying that preventing people from re-rolling a new character to play online was of such overwhelming importance that Blizzard had to completely disallow offline, locally-stored play."

This is about preventing piracy, and getting a cut of the massive amounts of cash being spent on third-party items in D2. Again, this is actually fine; businesses are in the business of making a profit. I'd just prefer it if they were up-front about it as opposed to coming up with laughably absurd justifications and pretending like piracy-prevention and the like are non-issues.

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by sunshadow21

Originally posted by Laughing-man

So because its profitable its right?

Why do we keep buying into these unethical business models?

are we such fools?

Blizzard from the get go made this game to make themselves money off us selling each other their items they invented in their own world.

Holy crap its literally a machine that prints money!

Where can I get mine?

Those are entirely separate arguments than the one I was trying to make at the time. While they certainly are worth debating, and I would like to note that I agree with your points more than I disagree, they deserve their own discussion rather than being tacked on to a discussion about something else.

Topic is about Diablo three being reviewed harshly and the reasons behind it.

RMT is a big reason.

My statements are on topic with the subject of this thread.

Sorry if I some how offended you.

RMT is only a reason for those who want to complain. I have only disconnected once for 15 minutes. Blizzard has fixed the issue. Like he said anyone who does not have the internet is probably too poor to buy this game. Also Blizzard profits in no way from you buying internet access.

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by doragon86

Originally posted by Laughing-man

 

 No I don't think they work for the ISPs, thats insane, I am saying however, that it costs me money to be on the internet correct?  Then by making their game an online only game it cost a monthly fee.  The money grab part of this is the fact that they did all this merely to prevent piracy, concequences be damned!  IF you cannot understand that then I cannot explain it any more plainly.

 

If that is the case then, you being on MMORPG.com is a money grab because you know you need the internet to access this website.

They need to make an offline version of this website, maybe print media would be good, that's a booming industry.

Why do you keep calling people hun? You have no clue who anyone here is and for all we know you could be...

Originally posted by TGSOL

Originally posted by Nirrtix

Originally posted by TGSOL

Originally posted by SlickShoes

Originally posted by Laughing-man

game made by entirely new team than the one that made D2

game fundamentally differently from D2 in many negative ways

entirely online only play money scheme

real money auction house money scheme

dated graphics that look worse than SC2

lag in single player mode

game beaten by most in less than 20 hours of play time

 

We waited 12 years.

 

Now do you see why we're upset?

How is entirely online play a money scheme? The auction house is a money maker when it launches for them but its not even in game yet. You don't need to pay to play this game like an MMO, its buy once so i fail to see your point here.

Always online = always connected to the RMAH = there's always the temptation to buy/sell something there, in which case Blizzard gets a cut of the profit. If a bunch of players play by themselves or in LAN/Open-BNet multiplyer with no RMAH, that means less money for Blizzard. Also, always online = less piracy.

 

Of course, a business wanting to make as much money as possible is normal and logical; the issue I have is that they like to pretend that this decision was made entirely with user experience in mind, going so far as to lie to their fans and use some truly rediculous arguments to defend their decision.

 

For example, they actually tried to argue that, because some players in D2 regretted making single-player characters and were dissapointed that they had to start new characters in order to play on BNet, removing the ability to play single player entirely for everybody was thus a good and logical decision that would improve everybodies experience. No single player = nobody regrets making a single-player only character = everybody wins! Uhh, wat? Lets apply that logic elsewhere: If some players come to regret purchasing D3, Blizzard should remove entirely the ability for anyone to even buy the game at all. No game = nobody regrets buying it = everybody wins! Blizzard logic!

 

Of course, they don't really believe this nonsense, they're just hoping their fanbase is stupid enough to believe it, because the incredible "we don't just love money, we also love gaming and our fans!" Blizzard that everyone fell in love with is dead. Now it's "we don't just love money, we also love dollars and cash!" Activision-Blizzard. Sad but true.

Hun, Blizzard never lied about anything. They always said it would be online only and there would be a Real Money Auction House. I guess my point is why are people complaining? You should have known.

What they've lied about is not whether or not those features would exist, but the reasons for implementing them. They claim that user experience is at the forefront of their decision while things like piracy are a non-issue. This is an outright lie. To quote Game Informer in response to Blizzards defense of the always-online requirement, "I have a hard time buying that preventing people from re-rolling a new character to play online was of such overwhelming importance that Blizzard had to completely disallow offline, locally-stored play."

(laughs) I do not care if they lied or not. Frankly I am not the one complaining about the features. The fact of thte matter is there is no reason to care about either feature. If you are worried about being online all the time well if you are able to afford the game you can afford the internet. If you do not like the RMAH guess what YOU DO NOT HAVE TO USE IT!

I remember one guy saying he wanted to use Diablo 3 on the airplane. Guess what many airlines have internet on the planes! I know I could get it for $5 on Southwest. Besides, how do you play Diablo 3 in those cramped seats?!?!

Originally posted by atticusbc

wut? seriously? well your like of the game is making you biased. welcome to opinions: they're biased.

There are fair opinions and biased ones. Now tell me, which of his opinions are not biased, and which are fair. He brings up developers who didn't work on it. He brings up the fact that it requires internet connection despite many folks have one for other reasons. He brings up RMAH which was ran by numerous third party sites in D2. He condemns the game before giving it a fair assesment. 

Originally posted by SlickShoes

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by doragon86

Originally posted by Laughing-man

 

 No I don't think they work for the ISPs, thats insane, I am saying however, that it costs me money to be on the internet correct?  Then by making their game an online only game it cost a monthly fee.  The money grab part of this is the fact that they did all this merely to prevent piracy, concequences be damned!  IF you cannot understand that then I cannot explain it any more plainly.

 

If that is the case then, you being on MMORPG.com is a money grab because you know you need the internet to access this website.

They need to make an offline version of this website, maybe print media would be good, that's a booming industry.

...

Again, I will state my point for one final time.. and see if anyone grasps it...

The reason they made their game the way they did, with all the content being on the servers, and making it so its impossible to pirate, impossible to play offline, impossible to make your own private servers etc. was because of money.  Yes thats right folks they wanted to make sure you paid for your product!  Which is all fine and good, yet due to this choice they made there are factors that come into play now.

For instance, now due to this choice we are forced to pay for an internet connection to play the game, making Diablo 3, unlike EVERY OTHER Diablo game, it requires a monthly internet subscruption to play.  Creating issues like the single player lag, and some people will never get that fixed depending on their internet connection and their location.

They made these choices, they caused their customer problems, and yet everyone bought up their hotcakes.

Thats my point.

Originally posted by Nirrtix

Originally posted by Mardukk

It's probably scewed due to people's tastes changing over 12 years.  Simple hack n slash games really pale in comparison to almost any MMO.  I thought Diablo and  D2 waere awesome and then I discovered my first MMO, EQ and it was lights out for Diablo as far as I was concerned.  I tried Torchlight within the last year and I couldn't believe that I used to think Diablo style games were even remotely fun. 

 

I still have a tough time figuring out that it took Blizz 12 years to make a simple hack n slash game, I just don't understand it.

Hun EQ came out before Diablo 2. I do not think people's tastes have changed this game has made like around 300 million dollars already. That is a lot of copies.

What does that matter?  Did I say that I played EQ at release?  I said I started playing EQ and you couldn't pay me to play a diablo style game after that.  People that haven't played a hack n slash game since D2 could have a negative review of D3 due to their tastes changing after they got into MMO's.  Not saying D3 is a horrible game it may have suprised a few people that they now hate the genre after playing MMO's and they rated D3 down due to the change. People like me downrating would really have nothing to do with the D3 being bad for it's genre, which may or may not be fair to D3.

The simple fact is, reviews are biased for different reasons.

Does it deserve a 1? No. Does it deserve a 10? No.

If you enjoy the game, good for you. If you don't, good for you.

Who cares? Seriously! Haven't people figured out that "official" reviews are junk anyway? If you want to know whether to buy a game or not, take ALL the reviews and read them. Regardless of silly numbers attached to them, read the information provided and then make a decision whether you want to buy the game or not.

People take things personally these days, it's sad and silly. It's just gaming people, these are just games! It's not like the world is ending or something. Go outside, breath the fresh air for a change.

Originally posted by Laughing-man

game made by entirely new team than the one that made D2

game fundamentally differently from D2 in many negative ways

entirely online only play money scheme

real money auction house money scheme

dated graphics that look worse than SC2

lag in single player mode

game beaten by most in less than 20 hours of play time

 

We waited 12 years.

 

Now do you see why we're upset?

I'm a long time Diablo fan as well, both Diablo and D2, LoD. And yes, I understand why you're upset.

The real question is, "Do you understand why it isn't appropriate to rate D3 so low?" Rating a game should be an objective process, it should be rated as it's own game. Comparitive ratings are useless and only reflect someones emotional attachment to a particular game.

Here's how I see your points as ratings:

New team made D3 - Okay, that's nice, but that's simply a statement and doesn't tell anyone anything about the game. Just that it's different.

Game fundamentally different from D2 in negative ways - Almost a reason to dock points. Unfortunately you don't explain what's negative. Just because it's not D2 doesn't mean it's a bad game, it just means it's not D2. If you think the itemization system is poor and doesn't encourage farming the content and reduces replayability, then say that. At least it's a valid complaint and would be worth docking the game for.

Online only money play scheme - It is online only, I don't understand how it's a money play scheme or what "money play scheme" means in english. And online only doesn't bother me as I enjoy MMO's regularly and they're all online (you do know you're complaining about online only on a website called MMORPG.com right?)

RMAH - Non-issue. You can't dock a game for having an option available to you. More choice is good, not bad. If it was forced upon you, then yes, I would hate it. But honestly you don't have to touch either AH to play, it's entirely your choice.

Dated graphics - While I disagree strongly here, I think D3 has a fantastic art style and will look great for a long time. However, this is a point of contention on which you could stand and state that it doesn't have graphics on par with many modern games.

Lag in single player mode - If this problem persists in a month or two, then yes, it's an issue. But it's a freshly launched game and has fantastic uptime so far with only small bouts of lag here or there. Once again, I think this is more a case of Blizzard underestimating people's interest in their games. Other companies love to release games with a bazillion servers and then merge them later, while Blizzard tends to release too few. Kinda ironic.

Game beaten within 20 hours - Well, as far as most games go, this is above average. Usually for a $60 game, you're looking at 8-12 hours of gameplay, and most of them don't have the replayability of D3. While I would like another 10-20 hours for the main story, I can't complain too much.

If you wanted to give D3 a low score a 7/10 or 7.5/10 would be pretty appropriate. The gameplay is spot on and responsive, it's also a ton of fun. Skill system offers a lot of customization (until Inferno) and the ease of hopping between public games makes grouping quick and easy. And knowing blizzard, they'll tweak things to make them close to perfect later on, and when the xpac comes out, the game will go into high gear. Rembmer D2 before LoD? Exactly.

Originally posted by doragon86

Originally posted by atticusbc

wut? seriously? well your like of the game is making you biased. welcome to opinions: they're biased.

There are fair opinions and biased ones. Now tell me, which of his opinions are not biased, and which are fair. He brings up developers who didn't work on it. He brings up the fact that it requires internet connection despite many folks have one for other reasons. He brings up RMAH which was ran by numerous third party sites in D2. He condemns the game before giving it a fair assesment. 

I never condemned the game I think D3 is an awesome game. "He" is also a SHE.

Originally posted by Nirrtix

(laughs) I do not care if they lied or not. Frankly I am not the one complaining about the features. The fact of thte matter is there is no reason to care about either feature. If you are worried about being online all the time well if you are able to afford the game you can afford the internet. If you do not like the RMAH guess what YOU DO NOT HAVE TO USE IT!

I remember one guy saying he wanted to use Diablo 3 on the airplane. Guess what many airlines have internet on the planes! I know I could get it for $5 on Southwest. Besides, how do you play Diablo 3 in those cramped seats?!?!

Some people can afford internet just fine; the problem is that the internet that's available isn't any good for a lot of people. Where I live, the best internet available as late as 2 years ago was 3mbps, and it was always disconnecting had poor ping. Only in the last 2 years has the internet here become anything resembling good.

Of course there are also issues related to things like Blizzards servers being offline/laggy, which has nothing to do with the users own internet connection.

It's not so simple as "if you can afford the internet, this should be a non-factor!"

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by SlickShoes

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by doragon86

Originally posted by Laughing-man

 

 No I don't think they work for the ISPs, thats insane, I am saying however, that it costs me money to be on the internet correct?  Then by making their game an online only game it cost a monthly fee.  The money grab part of this is the fact that they did all this merely to prevent piracy, concequences be damned!  IF you cannot understand that then I cannot explain it any more plainly.

 

If that is the case then, you being on MMORPG.com is a money grab because you know you need the internet to access this website.

They need to make an offline version of this website, maybe print media would be good, that's a booming industry.

...

Again, I will state my point for one final time.. and see if anyone grasps it...

The reason they made their game the way they did, with all the content being on the servers, and making it so its impossible to pirate, impossible to play offline, impossible to make your own private servers etc. was because of money.  Yes thats right folks they wanted to make sure you paid for your product!  Which is all fine and good, yet due to this choice they made there are factors that come into play now.

For instance, now due to this choice we are forced to pay for an internet connection to play the game, making Diablo 3, unlike EVERY OTHER Diablo game, it requires a monthly internet subscruption to play.  Creating issues like the single player lag, and some people will never get that fixed depending on their internet connection and their location.

They made these choices, they caused their customer problems, and yet everyone bought up their hotcakes.

Thats my point.

(sheds a tear for you) seriously? You are upset that becuase a company who tries to protect themselves from piracy made their gmae online, which can cause lag? I have witnessed almost no lag when playing D3. As for customer problems I think they only got rid of complainers like yourself.

I'm sure the guys at Blizzard are fretting over the poor reviews from high atop their mountain of cash, hookers and blow. 

Originally posted by TGSOL

Originally posted by Nirrtix

(laughs) I do not care if they lied or not. Frankly I am not the one complaining about the features. The fact of thte matter is there is no reason to care about either feature. If you are worried about being online all the time well if you are able to afford the game you can afford the internet. If you do not like the RMAH guess what YOU DO NOT HAVE TO USE IT!

I remember one guy saying he wanted to use Diablo 3 on the airplane. Guess what many airlines have internet on the planes! I know I could get it for $5 on Southwest. Besides, how do you play Diablo 3 in those cramped seats?!?!

Some people can afford internet just fine; the problem is that the internet that's available isn't any good for a lot of people. Where I live, the best internet available as late as 2 years ago was 3mbps, and it was always disconnecting had poor ping. Only in the last 2 years has the internet here become anything resembling good.

 

Of course there are also issues related to things like Blizzards servers being offline/laggy, which has nothing to do with the users own internet connection.

 

It's not so simple as "if you can afford the internet, this should be a non-factor!"

Laggy servers? Maybe the first day or two. I have notices almost no lag playing D3 and I play during offtime and peak times. Try again.

Fair Diablo 3 review simulator  v1.1a

Gear:

• Grand mother 100+ years old.
• Blindfold.
• Mini baby  less than 1 year old.
• 20lvl character.
• HC player "Swa† "
   

• Build character
• Test character

Originally posted by Laughing-man

You assume I dislike the game, I have no opinion on the content of the game as I have not played it and will not play it.

You know what they say about assumptions....

You also didn't read any of my other concerns other than the developers being different...

My many valid concerns...

If you have no opinion and therefore are indifferent, then why post about it? I can only assume you dislike the game. I am no blind fanboy. Yes I did read your concern and addressed them, but you made no mention of my responses. Also you did not supply a very detailed reasoning of why you won't be picking it up in the first place. 

Originally posted by TGSOL

Some people can afford internet just fine; the problem is that the internet that's available isn't any good for a lot of people. Where I live, the best internet available as late as 2 years ago was 3mbps, and it was always disconnecting had poor ping. Only in the last 2 years has the internet here become anything resembling good.

 

Of course there are also issues related to things like Blizzards servers being offline/laggy, which has nothing to do with the users own internet connection.

 

It's not so simple as "if you can afford the internet, this should be a non-factor!"

Ah, now I can understand where you guys are coming from in regards to online only. 

Originally posted by Laughing-man

game made by entirely new team than the one that made D2

game fundamentally differently from D2 in many negative ways

entirely online only play money scheme

real money auction house money scheme

dated graphics that look worse than SC2

lag in single player mode

game beaten by most in less than 20 hours of play time

 

We waited 12 years.

 

Now do you see why we're upset?

No.  The game is good.

Who cares who it is made by.  The game is also fundamentally similar in many positive areas, far more positive than negative.  We are all online anyways, no big deal.  RMAH isn't even in yet, and if you don't want to take part in it, don't.  No one is forcing you to and it does not at all affect your game play experience.  Graphics are more than good enough.  I haven't really experienced any significant lag and I haven't been disconnected since the first day of launch.  Simply put, things are smooth now.  Diablo has always been a game that is about playing through the other difficulties.  I'm currently in Act 2 Nightmare.  I play 2-3 hours a day.  We waited 12 years and got a very solid game.  

People just complain to, well, complain.  What are the biggest issues?  Online play?  Is it really an issue?  No, not really.  No town portal scrolls and no runes?  Well, you still have runes in the game and this system makes more sense to keep people playing longer.  It puts that carrot out there and makes players get just one more level to get that cool rune effect.  It's good for the game.  Who actually enjoyed hunting town portal scrolls.  Seriously?  That is a big gripe?  People need to remember that there will be a PvP aspect that must be balanced, which is why we don't put attribute points into our characters ourselves now.  You all wanted PvP right?  Well guess what, sometimes things need to be changed in order to accomidate your wishes.  If they didn't do that, you'd all be pissing and moaning about "insert FOTM here" and how it is so overpowered.  You'll all want the nerf bats broken out.  RMAH?  Don't participate.  What happens when you don't buy or sell gear for money in your game?  NOTHING!  Your game is not changed in the slightest bit AT ALL.  It is a NON-factor people.

Play the game for what it is.  It has a decent storyline, it has good combat, the same itemization and difficulties that the other Diablo's had.  It has newer graphics, some new crafting and new PvP.  There are so many things to be happy about, yet people can only focus on the few negatives that don't really affect the game at all.  Like I said, people complain because they can.  It's just how people are.

I'm new to the franchise so I guess I'm the target demographic that they were aiming at, right?

Although I find the basic gameplay kind of fun, I wish somebody would have warned me about how agonizing the jesus-tard story is. I would have seriously thought twice.

Listiening to the cutscenes is exactly as irritating as listening to those a-holes who show up on my doorstep every sunday to meet my shotgun. I guess it's what you should expect from a piece of software grown in Orange County. That place is full of window-lickers.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that even the name of the software implies that there will be some kind of Judeo-Christian bullshit, but I thought they wouldn't lay it on so thick seeing as it's a freeking video game.

Religious dipshittery aside, as others have mentioned, the story itself is extremely light on playable content. Some have said that it's because the thing is meant to be replayed, and that's fine... if you have a few more environments. THe thing ships with three, one of which (the last act) is unbearably lame.

The game-play itself feels good. Blasting stuff is fun, but the content is utterly half-assed by any reasonable modern standard.