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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Who's to blame? EA or Bioware? Both?

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92 posts found
  rguilbert

Novice Member

Joined: 1/10/11
Posts: 107

5/23/12 11:16:48 PM#61

There is no Bioware...only EA. 

 

Bioware has been

...assimilated into the Borg (for you Sci Fi types)

...or converted into a mindless undead thrall (for you fantasy types)

... or bought out, had its talent dispersed, had its name given to numerous other (not really bioware) groups, had its upper-level staff made into "yes men", and had its reputation used like an ugly adult film star (for you reality types).

  Irus

Novice Member

Joined: 1/11/11
Posts: 780

5/24/12 12:41:09 AM#62

I'd say BioWare because I feel the game distinctly lacks work/ideas.

  eyeswideopen

Tipster

Joined: 5/24/09
Posts: 2503

5/24/12 2:47:09 AM#63
Originally posted by rguilbert

There is no Bioware...only EA. 

 

Bioware has been

...assimilated into the Borg (for you Sci Fi types)

...or converted into a mindless undead thrall (for you fantasy types)

... or bought out, had its talent dispersed, had its name given to numerous other (not really bioware) groups, had its upper-level staff made into "yes men", and had its reputation used like an ugly adult film star (for you reality types).

This.^

EAware is to blame.

-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-

  User Deleted
5/24/12 3:13:51 AM#64
Originally posted by GreenHell
Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

LucasArts is a strict parent company with the license of their beloved Star Wars.  They lay down heavy ground rules on their delusional "vision" of what the game being made must be like.

And its up to the developer that they hire the contract out to, to deal with these strict guidelines.

I'm not saying Bioware(EA) didn't also drop the ball, but I am saying that LucasArts designed the vision of how said ball should look.

I just don't buy it this time around. ToR is exactly the kind of MMO BW would have made with any of their own IP's. Just so happens they used the SW IP instead of using ME or DA.

You cant know that. Having emphasis on story is one thing, having WoW clone is another.

In fact BW itself never said they want to compete with WoW, thas exclusively EA talk.

EA is definately to blame, BW for taking EAs dump and making...well...SWTOR as we know it.

Think that EA, after its failed MMOs wanted to compete with WoW by - cloning it with good brand name.

  User Deleted
5/24/12 3:23:46 AM#65
Originally posted by AG-Vuk

  /\  

This. Any other expectation from BW was either niave or clouded by wishful thinking.

I suspect that they will have significant diificulties correcting the flaws in the game. The main reason being game design choice. It doesn't mean, they can't save the game or bring back the population . It's a question of how intent are they on making the changes and adjustments necessary to do so. There is still a basis for solid MMO here and it's still early in it's evolution. It should prove interesting to obverse. 

1. Such fundamental changes to the game cant be done in patches, but would require expansion. And since i think they got their first expansion all lined up, 2nd expansion at best. Thats what, 2-3 years?

2. Such drastic changes to the game - question is - do you do them in order to bring in more people or is it better to stick with audience you have *cough*NGE*cough*LOTRO MoM*cough*

  xmenty

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/22/10
Posts: 691

5/24/12 3:31:32 AM#66
Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by GreenHell
Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

LucasArts is a strict parent company with the license of their beloved Star Wars.  They lay down heavy ground rules on their delusional "vision" of what the game being made must be like.

And its up to the developer that they hire the contract out to, to deal with these strict guidelines.

I'm not saying Bioware(EA) didn't also drop the ball, but I am saying that LucasArts designed the vision of how said ball should look.

I just don't buy it this time around. ToR is exactly the kind of MMO BW would have made with any of their own IP's. Just so happens they used the SW IP instead of using ME or DA.

You cant know that. Having emphasis on story is one thing, having WoW clone is another.

In fact BW itself never said they want to compete with WoW, thas exclusively EA talk.

EA is definately to blame, BW for taking EAs dump and making...well...SWTOR as we know it.

Think that EA, after its failed MMOs wanted to compete with WoW by - cloning it with good brand name.

I think the guy who say, they do not wish to compete with WOW should be demoted.

Thats sentence was a warning bells ringing to investors when they say that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pardon my English as it is not my 1st language :)

  MosesZD

Novice Member

Joined: 2/10/12
Posts: 1407

5/24/12 6:27:08 AM#67
Originally posted by GreenHell

I just don't buy it this time around. ToR is exactly the kind of MMO BW would have made with any of their own IP's. Just so happens they used the SW IP instead of using ME or DA.

 

This.  Plus they'd started on the MMO, including full teams and spec'ing it out a year before EA bought BioWare and it took quite sometime to integrate BioWare into EA.   

  Gadareth

Novice Member

Joined: 12/06/05
Posts: 309

5/24/12 6:55:14 AM#68

Nobody is to blame for SWToR to be perfectly honest what your getting is EXACTLY what was promised. We constantly clamour for developers to try something different a new take  and yet when we do we belittle it and often claim it is not inovative or new enough.

SWToR is story focused with all npcs voiced it is what it's always claimed to be and its what it delivered. The other elements are there perhaps not to your liking but they are there.

Almost every single hate post I have seen conserning SWToR has been because the game did not foucs on what ever aspect of a mmorpg the poster in particular favored. Be in combat, PvP or basic design.

People when a developer says they have focused on story and the voice overs and that the game play itself is to follow x style and the art x concept then guess what when they do that its a GOOD thing. It means if your not liking what they say don't buy.

If you like what they say or think its a plausibale concept then do buy and if you feel that the concept is flawed once you have played it for real then by all means unsubscribe. Even post and explain why your not happy perhaps if your expectations are realistic and don' tbasically boil down to you suck do it my way then the developers amy even consider your suggestions if enough people express well reasoned and thought responses about why its a good idea.

 

Below you will se my take on a constructive review of a mmorpg.

I believe there are 3 main pillars to a MMORPG. this is how I believe SWTOR relates to them:-

1) The characters how much control do you feel you have over them and how individual do you feel. In my opinion SWTOR could have done  abit better here would have liked more options on the curomisation.Also as a story driven mmorpg your freedom is a tad curtailed. Character housing is very weak with no customisation allowed and I would prefer if the NPCs in the ship were more dynamic.

2) The playing expierince is it immersive do you feel like a character in the Star Wars Old Republic universe for me I feel the answer is yes. I dont always agree with the opions allowed me in the conversations but I do find the voice over adds extra dimension and its even better on grp missions. Crafting is there but I feel it is a bit lacking often by the time you can make a item on leveling you dont need it anyway. Unless your prepared to spend an abysmal amount of time and credits on it. But its there and the chance to have the orange modable gear means you can optimse your look and still stay viable.

3) End Game, now here SWToR has a little problem as its story driven once you reach the end of the story your a bit lost. Not a lot of scope here unless you like Alts, and here you find SWToRs primary focus with the legacy system etc they want to promote making alts as your primary souce of continuation. With each glass having its own uniquw storyline this is the path their endgame has tken.

All in all SWTOR is not a bad game but its to static which is  shame because with a bit more activity around the NPCs and player / companion interaction it wouls improve greatly.  The customisation options while reasonable are still a bit lack luster and could do with more variation what we have is not bad but we need more off it. Nothing wrong with the combat or animations its down to preference if you liek that style its good if you dont its not.

 

Just my 2 cents

Gadareth

  Rasputin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/07/03
Posts: 618

5/24/12 7:05:51 AM#69

Masters of singleplayer were tasked with making an MMO.

The result is what you see.

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

5/24/12 8:53:19 AM#70

Something I have said before but I think warrants repeating is that the "Bioware" that made Dragon Age, NWN, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect, etc. did NOT make SWTOR.  And I do not mean this metaphorically or figuratively, I mean it literally.

SWTOR was made by a separate studio under the Bioware label formed specifically to create SWTOR.  This studio is located LITERALLY over TWO THOUSAND miles away from the Bioware that we all know at love (loved?).  So I really don't see SWTOR as a "Bioware" game, despite its brand label.

As for the future of Bioware, I think it's pretty much over.  EA has started or rebranded EIGHT of its studios under the "Bioware" brand, including one studio that makes SOCIAL GAMES.  In fact, EA has an very impressive lineup of "Bioware" games coming out in the near future.  We can all look forward to Bioware classics such as:

Command and Conquer Generals 3

Warhammer Wrath of Heroes

And I'm sure there will be more soon.

Face it, Bioware is no more.  They started overreaching with SWTOR by starting another studio, then sold out to EA and EA is looking to just harvest the brand name by selling crappy games to suckers that will buy anything that says "Bioware" on it.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  red_cruiser

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/12/07
Posts: 442

5/24/12 9:02:20 AM#71
Originally posted by Creslin321

Something I have said before but I think warrants repeating is that the "Bioware" that made Dragon Age, NWN, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect, etc. did NOT make SWTOR.  And I do not mean this metaphorically or figuratively, I mean it literally.

SWTOR was made by a separate studio under the Bioware label formed specifically to create SWTOR.  This studio is located LITERALLY over TWO THOUSAND miles away from the Bioware that we all know at love (loved?).  So I really don't see SWTOR as a "Bioware" game, despite its brand label.

As for the future of Bioware, I think it's pretty much over.  EA has started or rebranded EIGHT of its studios under the "Bioware" brand, including one studio that makes SOCIAL GAMES.  In fact, EA has an very impressive lineup of "Bioware" games coming out in the near future.  We can all look forward to Bioware classics such as:

Command and Conquer Generals 3

Warhammer Wrath of Heroes

And I'm sure there will be more soon.

Face it, Bioware is no more.  They started overreaching with SWTOR by starting another studio, then sold out to EA and EA is looking to just harvest the brand name by selling crappy games to suckers that will buy anything that says "Bioware" on it.

This sums it up perfectly.  There were probably more Mythic/Warhammer people making SWTOR as opposed to actual BIoWare folks.  The problem is that the BioWare name has already lost most, if not all, of it's market power.

  Unlight

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 2586

5/24/12 9:23:49 AM#72
Originally posted by MosesZD
Originally posted by GreenHell

I just don't buy it this time around. ToR is exactly the kind of MMO BW would have made with any of their own IP's. Just so happens they used the SW IP instead of using ME or DA.

 

This.  Plus they'd started on the MMO, including full teams and spec'ing it out a year before EA bought BioWare and it took quite sometime to integrate BioWare into EA.   

Agreed.

The concepts that make the game mediocre are all Bioware's responsibility.  It's their design and their vision.  Has been since the start.  I just didn't realize that BW had so many delusional fans out there who will direct the blame anywhere but where it belongs.  It's just really convenient that they have a gigantic target like EA available for that. 

EA is guilty of many, many things, but SWTOR is Bioware's mistake and only their's.  Just because EA is deserting it like rats leaving a sinking ship, doesn't mean that they are the ones who built the thing with a hull made from balsa wood and papier-mâché.

  SlickShoes

Novice Member

Joined: 3/01/06
Posts: 1040

5/24/12 9:32:02 AM#73
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by Psythos

The game is actually pretty damn good despite being a wow clone. What bugs me is if you go to teh swtor forums pre launch youll see every otehr post was asking and begging for them to make it just like wow. They give all of these idiots exactly what they asked for. Why they are complaining everywhere and leaving the game is ridiculous. The players are failing this game, not the devs.

The people that wanted it to be similar to WoW got burned because it's like WoW, but worse.

 

Less features.

Sloppier combat.

Worse raids.

Less classes.

Worse balance.

Worse PvP system. 

More closed in with more zoning.

 

SWTOR was a WoW clone without the quality of WoW.

This guy speaks the truth, I actually started playing WoW again after SWTOR just so I could remember what a well made theme park MMO is like.

BioWare and EA and LA made the worst MMO I have played in my life. It was a decent single player game but it was sorely lacking in anything that would make it last as an MMO.

  Soandsoso

Elite Member

Joined: 3/08/12
Posts: 386

5/24/12 9:34:03 AM#74

No one is to blame as they have made the game they said they were going to make. With all the information out there the blame if any falls onto the person who bought it without researching or even after researching still purchased and subbed.

Lets all agree that some don't like it and move on.

  Tardcore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/09
Posts: 2370

"A strange game. The only winning move is not to post."

5/24/12 9:38:17 AM#75
Originally posted by Unlight
Originally posted by MosesZD
Originally posted by GreenHell

I just don't buy it this time around. ToR is exactly the kind of MMO BW would have made with any of their own IP's. Just so happens they used the SW IP instead of using ME or DA.

 

This.  Plus they'd started on the MMO, including full teams and spec'ing it out a year before EA bought BioWare and it took quite sometime to integrate BioWare into EA.   

Agreed.

The concepts that make the game mediocre are all Bioware's responsibility.  It's their design and their vision.  Has been since the start.  I just didn't realize that BW had so many delusional fans out there who will direct the blame anywhere but where it belongs.  It's just really convenient that they have a gigantic target like EA available for that. 

EA is guilty of many, many things, but SWTOR is Bioware's mistake and only their's.  Just because EA is deserting it like rats leaving a sinking ship, doesn't mean that they are the ones who built the thing with a hull made from balsa wood and papier-mâché.

I have to completely agree with you on that. I will say that I feel Lucas Arts does hold some of the responsibilty here too though. I remember Daniel Erickson talking about how they could not beleive that LA greenlighted the completely voice acted content knowing full well how much of an effort it would be to create. I feel the full VO content was what sucked the life out of all other parts of the game and left the dev staff way behind schedual even after five years of work. If LA had told Bioware to not go for broke with VO I think the game would be in a far better state than its current one.

The only blame I feel lies with EA is them forcing Bioware to relase an unfinished game that most likely would never have been ready.

"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  NaughtyP

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 795

5/24/12 10:47:43 AM#76
Originally posted by red_cruiser
Originally posted by Creslin321

Something I have said before but I think warrants repeating is that the "Bioware" that made Dragon Age, NWN, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect, etc. did NOT make SWTOR.  And I do not mean this metaphorically or figuratively, I mean it literally.

SWTOR was made by a separate studio under the Bioware label formed specifically to create SWTOR.  This studio is located LITERALLY over TWO THOUSAND miles away from the Bioware that we all know at love (loved?).  So I really don't see SWTOR as a "Bioware" game, despite its brand label.

As for the future of Bioware, I think it's pretty much over.  EA has started or rebranded EIGHT of its studios under the "Bioware" brand, including one studio that makes SOCIAL GAMES.  In fact, EA has an very impressive lineup of "Bioware" games coming out in the near future.  We can all look forward to Bioware classics such as:

Command and Conquer Generals 3

Warhammer Wrath of Heroes

And I'm sure there will be more soon.

Face it, Bioware is no more.  They started overreaching with SWTOR by starting another studio, then sold out to EA and EA is looking to just harvest the brand name by selling crappy games to suckers that will buy anything that says "Bioware" on it.

This sums it up perfectly.  There were probably more Mythic/Warhammer people making SWTOR as opposed to actual BIoWare folks.  The problem is that the BioWare name has already lost most, if not all, of it's market power.

Actually, there were even some guys that were former SWG workers on this project... like the NGE guy apparently.

Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  Larsa

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/04
Posts: 992

5/24/12 12:51:51 PM#77

The blame's at senior management of former Bioware.

SWToR is the game that senior Bioware management designed before Bioware got acquired by EA. Bioware's studio in Austin was setup 2 years before EA acquired Bioware - hard to see how people can blame EA for something they had nothing to do with.

EA's fault was to buy Bioware from Elevation Partners for this completely crazy sum they paid for it, what was it, something like $700 or $800 million?

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  nyxium

Novice Member

Joined: 3/15/09
Posts: 1198

Tumbling down the rabbit hole?

5/24/12 12:54:34 PM#78

The international economic climate is pants. That's got to have an effect. The Euro is dying, debt ceiling in US of America emerging yet again soon, game company's in financial trouble, it all adds up. 

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 2748

5/24/12 1:25:27 PM#79
Originally posted by Larsa

The blame's at senior management of former Bioware.

SWToR is the game that senior Bioware management designed before Bioware got acquired by EA. Bioware's studio in Austin was setup 2 years before EA acquired Bioware - hard to see how people can blame EA for something they had nothing to do with.

EA's fault was to buy Bioware from Elevation Partners for this completely crazy sum they paid for it, what was it, something like $700 or $800 million?

If BW already held the Starwars licence when EA bought them, then that would explain the "completely crazy sum" that EA paid. Not to mention the fact that the "Bioware" brand name was huge. And added to that, BW do have some other little games in their portfolio, not only a Starwars MMO...

  Fusion

Old School

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 1317

5/24/12 1:27:08 PM#80

The "blame" goes to the majority of gamers in the genre.

Gamers "voted" WoW to be the greatest MMORPG to date with their (mums or dads) wallets and the result is this and will still be for some years to come.

Currently playing: ESO

Waiting for: Class4.

Dead and Buried: NWO, GW2, SWTOR, Darkfall, AO, AC2, Vanguard, CoH/V, EnB, EVE, Neocron, FE, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, FFXI, FFXIV, SWG, WoW, and billions of eastern junks!

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