Originally posted by Thorbrand

It really depends on the class you are playing and your build for that class. All the range classes have it pretty easy all the way to the end. Now Barbs on the other hand is just a pain to play.

Guess Ill have to see if it changes as I get into the higher difficulties, but Im finding Monk is retardedly OP / EZ mode in comparison to either DH or Wiz that I have tried. Maybe its my build or something, but everything so far on the monk going through normal and part way into nightmare has been a walk in the park.

Originally posted by Nightverge

Originally posted by Butregenyo

Nightmare and normal, you can one shot any non boss mobs with decent items...  Primary bosses are a joke, compared to rare bosses.

Hell is not hard at all, it is all about items, and then you get 4 defensive skills on your num slots and it is a cake walk, unless you encounter some ridiculous arcane ench jailer frozen boss, it is easy. Same goes for inferno as well, if you have decent items it is not hard at all, and items i am talking about cost  of 400k total.

If you are dying a lot in hell mode (you shouldnt die at NM and normal), you are doing something wrong with your builf and items.

This is the real difficulty conversion:

Normal : Beginner

Nightmare : Very Easy

Hell : Easy

Inferno : Medium

This is not me bashing anything, i think that way and all of my friends think of it like this..

 

     lmao inerno is medium to you? I call bs. Unless you provide me with your battle.net and I can check your achievements and gear myself I will not believe that. Even if I did see all of your achievements I still would have a hard time believing its "normal" for you unless I played with you and you destroyed everything.

 

     I've played for countless hours, played with many people. People can barely stand up to hell much less inferno. There is no gear check in inferno because the gear could only get you past, maybe, the first act if you were armed to the teeth.

     It is all about planning abilities and using them in combination.

     But, basically, proof or I don't believe your claims. 

He prob bought gear from auction house before hell and inferno(if), and played solo for stuff is easy. Play 4player on em all. and less buying ur way.

Originally posted by Butregenyo

Nightmare and normal, you can one shot any non boss mobs with decent items...  Primary bosses are a joke, compared to rare bosses.

Hell is not hard at all, it is all about items, and then you get 4 defensive skills on your num slots and it is a cake walk, unless you encounter some ridiculous arcane ench jailer frozen boss, it is easy. Same goes for inferno as well, if you have decent items it is not hard at all, and items i am talking about cost  of 400k total.

If you are dying a lot in hell mode (you shouldnt die at NM and normal), you are doing something wrong with your builf and items.

This is the real difficulty conversion:

Normal : Beginner

Nightmare : Very Easy

Hell : Easy

Inferno : Medium

This is not me bashing anything, i think that way and all of my friends think of it like this..

Since you're so well endowed you should consider a job in pornography.

Rares one shotting you in Inferno isn't considered medium to me...

The difficulty in Inferno is way harder than anything in Diablo 2.

Edit: Not the difficulty, but the fact that no matter how much defense you want to stack up you're still going to get one shotted no matter what.

Originally posted by Foncl

Honestly, after having watched quite a bit of inferno streams I don't like the challenge with the health orb system. It's all about gear, until you get enough gear to be able to tank elite packs with nasty mods it's tough, once you can tank them it's not tough. I like challenges that are overcome by playing well, not challenges where gear is the only solution.

The way to beat inferno is to grind enough gear to be able to take on nasty packs, not so much playing well to beat them.

     It, in fact, has nothing to do with gear if you've played inferno or later hell at all. There is no gear you can get that will allow you to tank inferno. Its literally impossible. That's no exageration.

     It is all about playing well. Dodging attacks, using abilities in tandum, planning ahead, etc. None of it is a gear check at all. The gear is the invitation to even get in the door. Any success after admittance is all about abilities and skill.

     I believe you could ask anyone who's played inferno and they would tell you the same thing.

Easy? Not Easy?

Irrelevant. It's a lot of fun!

starting in Hell, most classes become more gear-dependent. so once u start a new act or difficulty level, the game is f-ing hard (Hell and Inferno, NM and normal are cakewalks). once you gear up, game becomes extremely easy. for instance, yesterday, i was about to uninstall the game playing my monk when i started Act 2 Hell. i spent a day gearing up, and now im breezing through Act 4. once i start inferno, i'll be pulling my hair out again.

this is the problem with games that are based around gear progression. youre always chasing the carrot, and replayability is limited, reliant on new expansions. for $60, D3 is well worth it though.

Originally posted by speedymcman

Rares one shotting you in Inferno isn't considered medium to me...

The difficulty in Inferno is way harder than anything in Diablo 2.

Edit: Not the difficulty, but the fact that no matter how much defense you want to stack up you're still going to get one shotted no matter what.

Yeah, that's not difficulty.  The AI doesn't get smarter or utilize new tactics.  They just have bigger numbers than your do.

Of course, Diablo 2 and Diablo 1 was the same way; however, the difference being is we're on the third installment of a massively succesful series that had a development cycle of over 10 years across the span of two versions (around 6 on the one we're playing, apparently) and the financial girth probably not matched by any other gaming company around.  They don't really have that much to show for it and it's a real bummer.

Originally posted by uohaloran

Originally posted by speedymcman

Rares one shotting you in Inferno isn't considered medium to me...

The difficulty in Inferno is way harder than anything in Diablo 2.

Edit: Not the difficulty, but the fact that no matter how much defense you want to stack up you're still going to get one shotted no matter what.

Yeah, that's not difficulty.  The AI doesn't get smarter or utilize new tactics.  They just have bigger numbers than your do.

Of course, Diablo 2 and Diablo 1 was the same way; however, the difference being is we're on the third installment of a massively succesful series that had a development cycle of over 10 years across the span of two versions (around 6 on the one we're playing, apparently) and the financial girth probably not matched by any other gaming company around.  They don't really have that much to show for it and it's a real bummer.

NO idea if it is AI or not, but in hell i've run into the speedy dog things with the fire chain and they split up and more or less repeatedly clothesline you.

I think the challenge comes with the whole being prepared to tackle a pack, if you're not prepared in hell plus you're likely to die. If you can't kite, you're going to die. If standing in the fire is your thing to do, you're going to die.

Though I like to think my barb was well geared for hell, still if I wasn't paying attention i'd die quick. I think the elite packs are fine as they are, the randomness of their abilities keep it interesting. I just wish the bosses had a bit more to offer in the later difficulties.

Odd, I find the difficulty of D3 on par with that in D2 so far. I have not been to inferno yet, but all of the other difficulties seem to be what I expected from my D2 days. Not sure where people are getting this "omg it is too easy!" from, considering that it is going to be a combination of your skill readouts and your gear for at least normal to hell levels.

Did you ever try to take a non-unique, non-set item Amazon (for example) all the way through hell difficulty in D2? Even with great crafted items and rare runeword items, I think you would not have been able to finish cow levels. The Buriza, Windforce, etc. were what made bowazons so good.

I would be shocked if D3 did not require a gear element to it beyond normal, and even in normal it helps a lot.

Oddly, the most difficult part of the game I found was at the start of Act 4, when you go down and get mobbed by the billions of spiders from that boss. It was made even harder by lots of rubberbanding

Originally posted by uohaloran

Originally posted by speedymcman

Rares one shotting you in Inferno isn't considered medium to me...

The difficulty in Inferno is way harder than anything in Diablo 2.

Edit: Not the difficulty, but the fact that no matter how much defense you want to stack up you're still going to get one shotted no matter what.

Yeah, that's not difficulty.  The AI doesn't get smarter or utilize new tactics.  They just have bigger numbers than your do.

Of course, Diablo 2 and Diablo 1 was the same way; however, the difference being is we're on the third installment of a massively succesful series that had a development cycle of over 10 years across the span of two versions (around 6 on the one we're playing, apparently) and the financial girth probably not matched by any other gaming company around.  They don't really have that much to show for it and it's a real bummer.

This is just silly. THis is difficulty. Mobs get bigger numbers and as a result you have to play well. How is that not difficult? Also on Hell and Inferno mobs get new abilities and modifiers.

I find it very odd that some people think that if a game can be made easier by gaining better gear it's not really difficult. 

By all these definitions MMO should be wiped from the face of the Earth because they give a whole new meaning of easy mode.

I totally agree with the OP here, in fact this inconsistent difficulty is the reason why I'm not too big with the game and am not playing all that much after I beat it on normal.  I roflstomped Diablo, seriously as a Barbarian, I just stun locked his ass till he died with Clobber, it was pathetic and dissapointing.  I come to rare mobs and they wreck my shit!  They heal while they chain to each other, and touching those chains HURTS, but I have to get near them in order to hit them being a Barbarian, I'm convinced the Devs didn't do a run through with a Barbarian in any difficulty other than Normal, because the odds are stacked against them.

The game isn't challenging, it's frustrating what with the inconsistent hit detection, the occasional server spikes where you rubber band, the occasional retarded rare mob roll where they got 2 ludicrous combo special skills.  The undodgeable attacks that randomly wreck your lifebar (I'm talkin to you you freaking angel boss before Diablo)  And let's not forget the sheer luck game of getting decent gear drops as well as health globe drops.  Sometimes I go just minutes of killin stuff without a health globe, it's this inconsistent randomness that makes the game impossible to strategize with.

There is a difference between challenging genuine difficulty, and frustrating and artificial difficulty, and Diablo 3 is far on the frustrating side.

Originally posted by slicknslim88

I totally agree with the OP here, in fact this inconsistent difficulty is the reason why I'm not too big with the game and am not playing all that much after I beat it on normal.  I roflstomped Diablo, seriously as a Barbarian, I just stun locked his ass till he died with Clobber, it was pathetic and dissapointing.  I come to rare mobs and they wreck my shit!  They heal while they chain to each other, and touching those chains HURTS, but I have to get near them in order to hit them being a Barbarian, I'm convinced the Devs didn't do a run through with a Barbarian in any difficulty other than Normal, because the odds are stacked against them.

The game isn't challenging, it's frustrating what with the inconsistent hit detection, the occasional server spikes where you rubber band, the occasional retarded rare mob roll where they got 2 ludicrous combo special skills.  The undodgeable attacks that randomly wreck your lifebar (I'm talkin to you you freaking angel boss before Diablo)  And let's not forget the sheer luck game of getting decent gear drops as well as health globe drops.  Sometimes I go just minutes of killin stuff without a health globe, it's this inconsistent randomness that makes the game impossible to strategize with.

There is a difference between challenging genuine difficulty, and frustrating and artificial difficulty, and Diablo 3 is far on the frustrating side.

Barbarians are big crybabies. Normal and Nightmare are faceroll as a Barb. Also Barbs have it ridiculously easy against act bosses. For some reason most barbarians expect to sit in one place and bash away at mobs just because they're a melee class. But then if you tank and spank why do ranged classes have to go through all the trouble to kite like crazy and position themselves.

Elites are supposed to be more difficult than act bosses to prevent boss farming similar to D2.

Originally posted by slicknslim88

I totally agree with the OP here, in fact this inconsistent difficulty is the reason why I'm not too big with the game and am not playing all that much after I beat it on normal.  I roflstomped Diablo, seriously as a Barbarian, I just stun locked his ass till he died with Clobber, it was pathetic and dissapointing.  I come to rare mobs and they wreck my shit!  They heal while they chain to each other, and touching those chains HURTS, but I have to get near them in order to hit them being a Barbarian, I'm convinced the Devs didn't do a run through with a Barbarian in any difficulty other than Normal, because the odds are stacked against them.

The game isn't challenging, it's frustrating what with the inconsistent hit detection, the occasional server spikes where you rubber band, the occasional retarded rare mob roll where they got 2 ludicrous combo special skills.  The undodgeable attacks that randomly wreck your lifebar (I'm talkin to you you freaking angel boss before Diablo)  And let's not forget the sheer luck game of getting decent gear drops as well as health globe drops.  Sometimes I go just minutes of killin stuff without a health globe, it's this inconsistent randomness that makes the game impossible to strategize with.

There is a difference between challenging genuine difficulty, and frustrating and artificial difficulty, and Diablo 3 is far on the frustrating side.

the game frustrates you and yet you cant stop playing it......*hug*

if a game frustrates me it gets uninstalled b4 the box hit the botom of my trashcan at my desk.....just saying, maybe you should play something that's fun for you.

Originally posted by slicknslim88

I totally agree with the OP here, in fact this inconsistent difficulty is the reason why I'm not too big with the game and am not playing all that much after I beat it on normal.  I roflstomped Diablo, seriously as a Barbarian, I just stun locked his ass till he died with Clobber, it was pathetic and dissapointing.  I come to rare mobs and they wreck my shit!  They heal while they chain to each other, and touching those chains HURTS, but I have to get near them in order to hit them being a Barbarian, I'm convinced the Devs didn't do a run through with a Barbarian in any difficulty other than Normal, because the odds are stacked against them.

The game isn't challenging, it's frustrating what with the inconsistent hit detection, the occasional server spikes where you rubber band, the occasional retarded rare mob roll where they got 2 ludicrous combo special skills.  The undodgeable attacks that randomly wreck your lifebar (I'm talkin to you you freaking angel boss before Diablo)  And let's not forget the sheer luck game of getting decent gear drops as well as health globe drops.  Sometimes I go just minutes of killin stuff without a health globe, it's this inconsistent randomness that makes the game impossible to strategize with.

There is a difference between challenging genuine difficulty, and frustrating and artificial difficulty, and Diablo 3 is far on the frustrating side.

I'm repeating others here, but Diablo has never been about the bosses, but about the unique/elite-packs. That's why I'm glad that they made the loot drops from these packs better then the drops of bosses. 'Inconsistnent randomness' sounds bloody awesome by the way. You can hold lectures about that contradiction in those two words

The health globe system is good in my opinion. Before the release people were comparing it to the flask system of Path of Exile. The health globe system combined with the cooldown on potions, makes for a challenging game. You now have to make 'split second' decissions. "Do I use a potion or do I gamble on a health globe drop" and "Shall I use my potion now and safe that health globe in the distance or can I make it through all these mobs to that health globe". In particular on HC this can make for some interesting situations and for me, it beats spamming potions all the time.

The challenge in Diablo 3 lies in the skill system. A lot of people are used to copy&paste cookiecutter builds. Just take a look at the forums of Diablo 3. There're actually builds that do work in Inferno. Some barbarians claim that cleave and revenge are mandatory in Inferno, while others use different specs and succeed too (with posting proof). There're a lot of different ways to aproach this game.

It looks pretty damn easy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raZErIwCSWk

Originally posted by fivoroth

Barbarians are big crybabies. Normal and Nightmare are faceroll as a Barb. Also Barbs have it ridiculously easy against act bosses. For some reason most barbarians expect to sit in one place and bash away at mobs just because they're a melee class. But then if you tank and spank why do ranged classes have to go through all the trouble to kite like crazy and position themselves.

Elites are supposed to be more difficult than act bosses to prevent boss farming similar to D2.

Ideally we should not be required to do either (kiting on meelee or ranged), it should not be wow, there should be a treshold of damage/lifesteal that would actually enable glass cannon and tank and spank playstyle, with some relevand drawbacks ofc and special consideration for bosses.

D2 went "harder" for underpowered builds/classes in a fashion that you would spend enormous amounts of time killing something, thus you had the drive to find better ways to kill, if you die in 1-2 hits regardless of what you do (vortex fire chains anyone? :) ), the drive is simply not there.

Flame on!

:)

Originally posted by Banaghran

Originally posted by fivoroth

Barbarians are big crybabies. Normal and Nightmare are faceroll as a Barb. Also Barbs have it ridiculously easy against act bosses. For some reason most barbarians expect to sit in one place and bash away at mobs just because they're a melee class. But then if you tank and spank why do ranged classes have to go through all the trouble to kite like crazy and position themselves.

Elites are supposed to be more difficult than act bosses to prevent boss farming similar to D2.

Ideally we should not be required to do either (kiting on meelee or ranged), it should not be wow, there should be a treshold of damage/lifesteal that would actually enable glass cannon and tank and spank playstyle, with some relevand drawbacks ofc and special consideration for bosses.

D2 went "harder" for underpowered builds/classes in a fashion that you would spend enormous amounts of time killing something, thus you had the drive to find better ways to kill, if you die in 1-2 hits regardless of what you do (vortex fire chains anyone? :) ), the drive is simply not there.

Flame on!

:)

     Well I will say here that  most people I've played with just have no idea how to prepare their characters for higher level difficulties. you should be pushing 40k health at hell mode and over 50k in inferno if your melee. That's pretty much bottom of the barrel right there.

     Even still, those chains do hurt. I believe that's the point. Don't get hit by the chains. I know its difficult, the AI works around the abilities it has. If it has chains the mobs will try to clothesline you constantly, if they have walls and plague they will wall you in and then throw plague under you.

     I actually believe you (and others) are angry that it ISN'T just a gear check. They will always kill you in a few hits. You have to manaveur and dodge and reposition and plan ahead. 

     There was a comment earlier that asserted planning ahead was impossible due to randomness. Its the randomness that makes planning ahead interesting at all. You don't know exactly what your walking into. You need a fair mix of survivability and damage.

     Today I was grouped with a wizard who had 20k health, a warrior who had 15k, another monk who had 18k, and me. Who had 52k.

     We were on hell and they were two levels under me. Stat builds are very much alive in this game contrary to what many believe. If you don't know what gear to put on and, especially, which gems to socket for what your trying to do then you will be drastically underpowered for higher difficulties.

Originally posted by Nightverge

           I actually believe you (and others) are angry that it ISN'T just a gear check. 

And this is bad how? Because this is wow and we have to progress? :)

I do get the appeal of constant difficulty, i do, i just think it is not well placed in a game with a randomized loot system, that kinda expects you to kill 100 or more times the mobs than in a game like wow to get the same loot results (having the best gear).

And you have misre\ad my example, the point was not that mobs walk around you with the chain, it was that the mob teleports you into the chain with vortex, something which is tricky to counter.

Flame on!

:)

The inferno difficulty isn't fun hard. It's annoying as f*ck hard.

I made it to act 4 inferno as demon hunter before the patch and it was probably the hardest thing I've ever done in a video game. After the patch they nerfed the only skill that allowed DH/Wiz/Monk to solo inferno past act 2 and took even the slight chance of success away. Overall I have to say the run from normal to inferno A2 was mad fun but after that it turned into mad raging annoyance and completely derived all the fun from the game. I forced myself to beat the game but I'm glad blizzard put and end to it with the patch. 

I was hoping for something closer to D2 but D3 has taken a turn for the worse and is going after "tiered gearing" of MMORPGs. You basically have to farm months of Inferno A1 to get that perfect gear to attempt A2 and once you complete A2 the same thing happends again. Not to mention the game is no longer soloable, you will have to group up in certain parts of the game just to get people abusing the rez-mechanic.

I had a blast with D3 but now I'll just roll other classes to 60 (Inferno A2) and wait for blizzard to redesign the difficulty of inferno. It's rushed, horrible and most importantly not fun.

Requiring perfect gear to progress + Real money auction incoming = CA$$$$H GRAB!