I played SWTOR for 1 month and unsubbed. Not that I didn't like the game but it was just another theme park ride with no direction IMO.

Star Wars fans are, on the whole, a mature bunch of fans whom I assume love a lot of sci-fi and games.  They should have spent their 100 million dollars on an EVE type model.

• Build a massive lush world with hubs
• Stick in 3 factions.  Jedi, Sith and possibly merchants/alien faction
• Create an indepth crafting system with a global market
• Crafting system relies on a huge amount of resource that is in PvP zones.
• Set up housing and corporation housing.
• Diplomacy settings.
• Loose class system so characters are tailored made.

Then drop in every Star Wars gaming fan and let them build the world and fight over territories, which will generate maps of occupied faction territory and flare ups on fights. 

Build the Universe and they will come....

(Instead of sticking us down a sausage machine with a theme park brochure so we don't miss any pretty pictures on the way)

Haven't play SWToR, but I can see many SWG features on that list

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad thing... but in that case they should have stick to SWG and try to make it better.

Originally posted by chryses

I played SWTOR for 1 month and unsubbed. Not that I didn't like the game but it was just another theme park ride with no direction IMO.

Star Wars fans are, on the whole, a mature bunch of fans whom I assume love a lot of sci-fi and games.  They should have spent their 100 million dollars on an EVE type model.

• Build a massive lush world with hubs
• Stick in 3 factions.  Jedi, Sith and possibly merchants/alien faction
• Create an indepth crafting system with a global market
• Crafting system relies on a huge amount of resource that is in PvP zones.
• Set up housing and corporation housing.
• Diplomacy settings.
• Loose class system so characters are tailored made.

Then drop in every Star Wars gaming fan and let them build the world and fight over territories, which will generate maps of occupied faction territory and flare ups on fights. 

Build the Universe and they will come....

 

(Instead of sticking us down a sausage machine with a theme park brochure so we don't miss any pretty pictures on the way)

That's actually a good list with the exception of housing and that just has to do with my own bias. I've just never been a fan of housing. As long as I have a place to store my junk I'm fine and I have that on my ship. But yes to the rest. This game really needs territorial control. Ilum was suppose to be that planet that we all fight over for rich resources and I hope when it makes it's return that we get that. Unfortunetly I doubt we'll ever get a third faction as many of us that love playing bounty hunters and smugglers were asking for that very thing pre-launch.

I actually have never understood why someone has picked up the idea of the EVE model in a traditional fantasy setting. I am a big fan of EVE - in concept - but never got on with playing it for longer periods.

However, I have often imagined what it would be like to have a game that had, for example:

- a core "Empire" style area with town and cities that was the equivalent of 1.0 security in EVE - therefore lots of guards and no ganking and then areas a bit further afield with lower areas of safety, down to some kind of frontier lands/badlands which would be the equivalent of nullsec.

- territory/resource control in my nullsec equivalent - frontier/badlands, with keeps and towns and resource generation through farming/mining/lumberjacking/hunting etc. These would be the best resources available - others being in low/hisec of varying quality. SWG style resouces with different stats producing different quality items.

- player driven economy with all items crafted and capable of being destroyed. Like  SWG, say, with its ever decreasing durability until the item is permanently broken.

- free form character development, either time based like EVE, or skill based like Elder Scrolls games (e.g. use a sword repeatedly to improve skill level and then maybe some perks to spend points in or just available at certain skills levels).

The if you worked some PVE around that similar to EVE with quests starting off in "Empire" and then with greater rewards and opportunities in lowsec/nullsec but perhaps with actual little stories, dungeons so as not to be the mission grind of EVE.

Just a few thoughts, none of them particularly well developed, but it strikes me that EVE + SWG forms a really good base for a player-driven sandbox with meaningful open world pvp. My personal preference would be for a fantasy setting, but you could do this with any IP really (I'm looking at you Bethesda/ZeniMax!).

People on this site always assume that the market (as in the mass of people that play games) want a lot of PvP in their game.  This really is not born out in what games do well.  I think for many if not most PvP is a side activity for them and want the game to be PvE based.  Nothing makes a game tank faster than ganking being in a game.  If you remove the ability to gank then people here harass it for being too carebear.

One other thing I think people will find the mass of Star Wars fans are rather young.  Clone Wars, toys, even the newer movies were aimed at kids not so much at adults.  The original movies were aimed at teens and adults. 

Yeah, they should spent their +150M budget on a model that is represented by single game on the market, a game that needed 9 years to achieve 360k subscribers.

That would make perfect business sense...

Originally posted by Ausare

People on this site always assume that the market (as in the mass of people that play games) want a lot of PvP in their game.  This really is not born out in what games do well.  I think for many if not most PvP is a side activity for them and want the game to be PvE based.  Nothing makes a game tank faster than ganking being in a game.  If you remove the ability to gank then people here harass it for being too carebear.

Actually I am not a fan of PVP at all, for precisely the reasons you state.  I was just thinking aloud really, based on the kind of game EVE is, and also because EVE is the only game in which I quite liked PVP because it meant something and, in my time playing at least, was not a stupid gankfest.

If a PVE game with some of the freeform sandbox features of EVE/SWG could be made I'd be more than happy tbh.

A game that combined a WoW end game and DAoC end game would be fine by me.  Keep PvP separate from PvE areas so that people can do both.  Do not force one to do the other and you might get a winner.  Eve lost me when the top PvE brought you into PvP areas and the fact that a ship suited for top missions can not even fight off the simplest PvP ship made me leave the game.

Just to clarify some thoughts on the PvP side of things.  The reason why EVE works so well is that you can avoid PvP entirely but still be a big player in the universe. 

I played for 6 years and ended up in a lot of skirmishes (due to running deep space mining etc) but I created and maxed out (110 million SPs for full character) all trade/merchant type skills.  I had a huge amount of fun hunting down rare items/materials and building tons of gear for the corporation. 

The corp I built got to 100 members and it was full of carebears, PvP freaks and a mix of both.  Those that wanted PvP were out there guarding our miners in 0.0 sec or going to the aid of an ally. 

There was a real community about everyone contributing and working towards a space station or helping to control a valuable part of space. 

So as one of the posts stated up a bit further.  I feel a world based version either sci-fi or fantasy would work amazingly well as you would have your large safe hubs but then the vast spaces that were up for grabs.  Imagine if SWTOR had this model and a corp could take over an imperial building and move their operation in there?

Sorry for the wall of text.

(interesting what someone said about a third faction regarding bounty hunters etc.  I always felt weird playing my BH and being imperial. I wanted to be a freelancer playing both sides.)

Originally posted by chryses

I played SWTOR for 1 month and unsubbed. Not that I didn't like the game but it was just another theme park ride with no direction IMO.

Star Wars fans are, on the whole, a mature bunch of fans whom I assume love a lot of sci-fi and games.  They should have spent their 100 million dollars on an EVE type model.

• Build a massive lush world with hubs
• Stick in 3 factions.  Jedi, Sith and possibly merchants/alien faction
• Create an indepth crafting system with a global market
• Crafting system relies on a huge amount of resource that is in PvP zones.
• Set up housing and corporation housing.
• Diplomacy settings.
• Loose class system so characters are tailored made.

Then drop in every Star Wars gaming fan and let them build the world and fight over territories, which will generate maps of occupied faction territory and flare ups on fights. 

Build the Universe and they will come....

 

(Instead of sticking us down a sausage machine with a theme park brochure so we don't miss any pretty pictures on the way)

They had a third faction.  But they scrapped it because they couldn't afford it in time or money it would take to do all those stories.  

But the biggest mistake made:   The entire game is voice-acted and animated for French, German and English.  

Tha'ts why there is so liitle 'content' for so much money spent.   They put more cinematics and voice acting in SWTOR than all their previous games combined.   Wasting much of it on 'kill 10 rats' quests.

The doing the whole thing in three languages.   So it ended up costing more than, from what I've read, WoW and all it's expansions and yet has 1/10th the content. 

Originally posted by chryses

I played SWTOR for 1 month and unsubbed. Not that I didn't like the game but it was just another theme park ride with no direction IMO.

Star Wars fans are, on the whole, a mature bunch of fans whom I assume love a lot of sci-fi and games.  They should have spent their 100 million dollars on an EVE type model.

• Build a massive lush world with hubs
• Stick in 3 factions.  Jedi, Sith and possibly merchants/alien faction
• Create an indepth crafting system with a global market
• Crafting system relies on a huge amount of resource that is in PvP zones.
• Set up housing and corporation housing.
• Diplomacy settings.
• Loose class system so characters are tailored made.

Then drop in every Star Wars gaming fan and let them build the world and fight over territories, which will generate maps of occupied faction territory and flare ups on fights. 

Build the Universe and they will come....

 

(Instead of sticking us down a sausage machine with a theme park brochure so we don't miss any pretty pictures on the way)

Sign me up

Originally posted by Vonatar

Originally posted by Ausare

People on this site always assume that the market (as in the mass of people that play games) want a lot of PvP in their game.  This really is not born out in what games do well.  I think for many if not most PvP is a side activity for them and want the game to be PvE based.  Nothing makes a game tank faster than ganking being in a game.  If you remove the ability to gank then people here harass it for being too carebear.

Actually I am not a fan of PVP at all, for precisely the reasons you state.  I was just thinking aloud really, based on the kind of game EVE is, and also because EVE is the only game in which I quite liked PVP because it meant something and, in my time playing at least, was not a stupid gankfest.

If a PVE game with some of the freeform sandbox features of EVE/SWG could be made I'd be more than happy tbh.

Want to know something ironic about EVE?  the majority of people in this hardcore pvp game..... never engage in any pvp whatsoever.  Most stay in hi-sec areas and find themselves plenty to do due to the sandbox nature of the game.  The "loudest" players are your nullsec players, but they aren't the majority.

What CCP has shown is that you can make a game that (in certain ways) caters to both elements and it can be successful and grow.  Yes, it took 9 years to get 360k in subs.

Yet we are talking what was a no-name company in Iceland  working with a shoestring budget and, for the first 5 years of the game, basically no marketing to a Western (mainly US based) audience.  Yet they listened to the needs of their playerbase, and made a compelling world which worked.  (How many companies have an on-staff economist?)  Based on what they spent, EVE has been massively profitable.

The game wasn't for me (found it took too long to do things I wanted and got bored quickly), but they've shown what can be done.  The only problem?  This sort of model requires actual work.  Most gaming companies today don't want to do work.  They want to be as lazy as their profit margin will allow them to be.

Originally posted by iceman00

Originally posted by Vonatar

Originally posted by Ausare

People on this site always assume that the market (as in the mass of people that play games) want a lot of PvP in their game.  This really is not born out in what games do well.  I think for many if not most PvP is a side activity for them and want the game to be PvE based.  Nothing makes a game tank faster than ganking being in a game.  If you remove the ability to gank then people here harass it for being too carebear.

Actually I am not a fan of PVP at all, for precisely the reasons you state.  I was just thinking aloud really, based on the kind of game EVE is, and also because EVE is the only game in which I quite liked PVP because it meant something and, in my time playing at least, was not a stupid gankfest.

If a PVE game with some of the freeform sandbox features of EVE/SWG could be made I'd be more than happy tbh.

Want to know something ironic about EVE?  the majority of people in this hardcore pvp game..... never engage in any pvp whatsoever.  Most stay in hi-sec areas and find themselves plenty to do due to the sandbox nature of the game.  The "loudest" players are your nullsec players, but they aren't the majority.

What CCP has shown is that you can make a game that (in certain ways) caters to both elements and it can be successful and grow.  Yes, it took 9 years to get 360k in subs.

Yet we are talking what was a no-name company in Iceland  working with a shoestring budget and, for the first 5 years of the game, basically no marketing to a Western (mainly US based) audience.  Yet they listened to the needs of their playerbase, and made a compelling world which worked.  (How many companies have an on-staff economist?)  Based on what they spent, EVE has been massively profitable.

The game wasn't for me (found it took too long to do things I wanted and got bored quickly), but they've shown what can be done.  The only problem?  This sort of model requires actual work.  Most gaming companies today don't want to do work.  They want to be as lazy as their profit margin will allow them to be.

Which is very profoundly sad. Garbage in, garbage out.

Originally posted by MosesZD

Originally posted by chryses

I played SWTOR for 1 month and unsubbed. Not that I didn't like the game but it was just another theme park ride with no direction IMO.

Star Wars fans are, on the whole, a mature bunch of fans whom I assume love a lot of sci-fi and games.  They should have spent their 100 million dollars on an EVE type model.

• Build a massive lush world with hubs
• Stick in 3 factions.  Jedi, Sith and possibly merchants/alien faction
• Create an indepth crafting system with a global market
• Crafting system relies on a huge amount of resource that is in PvP zones.
• Set up housing and corporation housing.
• Diplomacy settings.
• Loose class system so characters are tailored made.

Then drop in every Star Wars gaming fan and let them build the world and fight over territories, which will generate maps of occupied faction territory and flare ups on fights. 

Build the Universe and they will come....

 

(Instead of sticking us down a sausage machine with a theme park brochure so we don't miss any pretty pictures on the way)

 

They had a third faction.  But they scrapped it because they couldn't afford it in time or money it would take to do all those stories.  

 

But the biggest mistake made:   The entire game is voice-acted and animated for French, German and English.  

 

Tha'ts why there is so liitle 'content' for so much money spent.   They put more cinematics and voice acting in SWTOR than all their previous games combined.   Wasting much of it on 'kill 10 rats' quests.

 

The doing the whole thing in three languages.   So it ended up costing more than, from what I've read, WoW and all it's expansions and yet has 1/10th the content. 

 

 

I know, seriously WTF?

I was excited the first day by voice overs.

I was amused the second day by voice overs.

I was tempted to space bar on the third day

I started to space bar most besides the main story on the fourth day.

I work as a project manager in my day job and you can tell this wasn't thought out properly.

This is like having a budget of 500k for a car and spending 495k on making it look better than a ferrari.  Then going and sticking in a lawn mower engine.  Everyone will want to test it but then get bored with the lack of depth/power.

Originally posted by iceman00

Originally posted by Vonatar

Originally posted by Ausare

People on this site always assume that the market (as in the mass of people that play games) want a lot of PvP in their game.  This really is not born out in what games do well.  I think for many if not most PvP is a side activity for them and want the game to be PvE based.  Nothing makes a game tank faster than ganking being in a game.  If you remove the ability to gank then people here harass it for being too carebear.

Actually I am not a fan of PVP at all, for precisely the reasons you state.  I was just thinking aloud really, based on the kind of game EVE is, and also because EVE is the only game in which I quite liked PVP because it meant something and, in my time playing at least, was not a stupid gankfest.

If a PVE game with some of the freeform sandbox features of EVE/SWG could be made I'd be more than happy tbh.

Want to know something ironic about EVE?  the majority of people in this hardcore pvp game..... never engage in any pvp whatsoever.  Most stay in hi-sec areas and find themselves plenty to do due to the sandbox nature of the game.  The "loudest" players are your nullsec players, but they aren't the majority.

What CCP has shown is that you can make a game that (in certain ways) caters to both elements and it can be successful and grow.  Yes, it took 9 years to get 360k in subs.

Yet we are talking what was a no-name company in Iceland  working with a shoestring budget and, for the first 5 years of the game, basically no marketing to a Western (mainly US based) audience.  Yet they listened to the needs of their playerbase, and made a compelling world which worked.  (How many companies have an on-staff economist?)  Based on what they spent, EVE has been massively profitable.

The game wasn't for me (found it took too long to do things I wanted and got bored quickly), but they've shown what can be done.  The only problem?  This sort of model requires actual work.  Most gaming companies today don't want to do work.  They want to be as lazy as their profit margin will allow them to be.

Can't agree more. I was actually worried about my own playing style.  I consider myself a hardcore PvPer and yet I found myself in EVE not getting involved in PvP.  I spent 5 years based in the same sector which in itself is amazing, what other game out there could you keep returning to the same base for 5 years?  EVE was described in an interview one day as a lifestyle, not a game.  I think that summed it up nicely.  They don't boast millions of players but they are certainly one of the most stable firms I have seen.  Its bizzare that no one has tried to copy this model in another MMO!

Originally posted by chryses

I played SWTOR for 1 month and unsubbed. Not that I didn't like the game but it was just another theme park ride with no direction IMO.

Star Wars fans are, on the whole, a mature bunch of fans whom I assume love a lot of sci-fi and games.  They should have spent their 100 million dollars on an EVE type model.

• Build a massive lush world with hubs
• Stick in 3 factions.  Jedi, Sith and possibly merchants/alien faction
• Create an indepth crafting system with a global market
• Crafting system relies on a huge amount of resource that is in PvP zones.
• Set up housing and corporation housing.
• Diplomacy settings.
• Loose class system so characters are tailored made.

Then drop in every Star Wars gaming fan and let them build the world and fight over territories, which will generate maps of occupied faction territory and flare ups on fights. 

Build the Universe and they will come....

 

(Instead of sticking us down a sausage machine with a theme park brochure so we don't miss any pretty pictures on the way)

EPIC Idea, love it.

Originally posted by chryses

Just to clarify some thoughts on the PvP side of things.  The reason why EVE works so well is that you can avoid PvP entirely but still be a big player in the universe. 

I played for 6 years and ended up in a lot of skirmishes (due to running deep space mining etc) but I created and maxed out (110 million SPs for full character) all trade/merchant type skills.  I had a huge amount of fun hunting down rare items/materials and building tons of gear for the corporation. 

The corp I built got to 100 members and it was full of carebears, PvP freaks and a mix of both.  Those that wanted PvP were out there guarding our miners in 0.0 sec or going to the aid of an ally. 

There was a real community about everyone contributing and working towards a space station or helping to control a valuable part of space. 

So as one of the posts stated up a bit further.  I feel a world based version either sci-fi or fantasy would work amazingly well as you would have your large safe hubs but then the vast spaces that were up for grabs.  Imagine if SWTOR had this model and a corp could take over an imperial building and move their operation in there?

Sorry for the wall of text.

 

(interesting what someone said about a third faction regarding bounty hunters etc.  I always felt weird playing my BH and being imperial. I wanted to be a freelancer playing both sides.)

I think ANet took some pointers from EVE.

Unfortunately "MMOers" seem like a very exclusive bunch (heh, and they do like to point out word "social" "team" "group",  it funny), so if CCP listened to "MMOer" everyone would have to PvP or bust (similar to raid or bust).

Both EvE, and from what ive seen GW2, adopted concept that everyone can contribute to goals in their own way, and goals are set to encourage contributing, no matter what. It works opposed to exclusive EQ/WoW model that fails from game to game.

I dont know about eve...

but i look at planetside 2 videos and cant help thinking..

If they were wearing stormtrooper outfits and flying tie fighters, or rebel outfits and x wings, or mandalorian armour and oh ships like slave1, THAT would be more star wars than SWTOR.

thats what the PVP should have been like in SWTOR at least - star WARS

Originally posted by chryses

I played SWTOR for 1 month and unsubbed. Not that I didn't like the game but it was just another theme park ride with no direction IMO.

Star Wars fans are, on the whole, a mature bunch of fans whom I assume love a lot of sci-fi and games.  They should have spent their 100 million dollars on an EVE type model.

• Build a massive lush world with hubs
• Stick in 3 factions.  Jedi, Sith and possibly merchants/alien faction
• Create an indepth crafting system with a global market
• Crafting system relies on a huge amount of resource that is in PvP zones.
• Set up housing and corporation housing.
• Diplomacy settings.
• Loose class system so characters are tailored made.

Then drop in every Star Wars gaming fan and let them build the world and fight over territories, which will generate maps of occupied faction territory and flare ups on fights. 

Build the Universe and they will come....

 

(Instead of sticking us down a sausage machine with a theme park brochure so we don't miss any pretty pictures on the way)

I agree.

I'm looking forward to DUST personally.