Originally posted by jtcgs

Originally posted by apocoluster

I think the biggest problem for SoE was Lucas Arts

That is  false.

Raph Koster was SWGs problem.

LA had nothing to do with worlds that were randomly generated...or no 3D X/Y axis that allowed shooting through the ground/walls/no jumping/ hovering mounts that stopped on a pebble. LA had nothing to do with randomly placed waypoints that spawned in homes not only blocking entry but also preventing completion of the quest...LA, had nothing to do with the poor database handling in the game causing them to have daily downtime...nor did LA have anything to do with the 100% sandbox portion of the game.

The changes that came to SWG later came from Sony thinking rightly that the game would have far far far FAR more players if they closed some of the glaring gaps in it...and yes, they destroyed the game in the process, it just wasnt possible to do because of the core of the game design.

As bad as SWTOR is, it was designed in a way that would allow virtually any kind of expansion to it...since its just a bunch of instances leading to instances. You can add an open world planet to it, or a very large open instance to the current worlds, crafting can be vastly expanded easily just by adding items and resources. The glaring lack of RPing items can take care of both the crafting and the RPing aspects missing. A player created design function can be added easily as well since the game is instanced. music playing, dancing, pazzac playing, mounted player v player races...all can be added easily.

I'm not sure it was Raph so much as it was from above at SOE.  The game was pushed out the door while still not even nearly close to being considered "polished".  If we still had access to the beta forums, you would see post after post about bug reports and testers pleading to the keep the game in beta until many of the bug fixes were ready.  I think if you had given Raph the budget and more importantly the time given to SWTOR that swg would have been in much better shape.  I think you can see much of the same happened with SWTOR.  You have the statements in early and middle 2011 of the bioware guys saying the game will launch when ready, then suddenly in August, you have the complete flip, announcing pre-order and then shortly thereafter that the game would launch prior to Christmas in the US, no matter what.  That was EA talking.  They gave the orders.  Much as how I see things happening to the development of SWG in the 2nd quarter of 2003, SOE said launch no matter what to monetize.

SWG is dead. give it a rest and stop trying to turn this game into that pile of garbage. there is a reason it is dead. let it go already. so sick of all the SWG fanboys, all 5 of them trying to force this game to be that game.

Originally posted by prizm1234

SWG is dead. give it a rest and stop trying to turn this game into that pile of garbage. there is a reason it is dead. let it go already. so sick of all the SWG fanboys, all 5 of them trying to force this game to be that game.

SWG is dead because LA did not want the game going F2P, but SOE did. It being dead was not the reason it was shut down.

There is no need to change SWTOR to be like SWG, just bring back SWG as F2P as it deserves. Discussion of SWG in SWTOR forums will be virtually gone then.

However SWTOR does need more stuff added (not changed) to keep people playing, even if not SWG stuff, otherwise it will soon be dead and be shut down because it does get dead.

Originally posted by Rikus25

Originally posted by Xthos

TOR has pluses in it, if just due to it being more modern in the survey.

 

I think the biggest problem for SoE was Lucas Arts, when you have a IP, and they have ultimate control and final say, it can be like a football team with a owner that thinks he should be the GM/Coach.  This plagued SWG, and to be honest, I would not be suprised if it doesn't hit (may have already to an extent) TOR.

 

The problem was not Lucasarts. Lucasarts actually was pretty well hands off at first. It wasnt until the NGE that they started getting involved because of all the hate mail they were receiving. SOE basically said they needed it to be more like EQ II because they did not have the resources to maintain all the different class posibilities. They wanted to focus more on EQ II than SWG and that was SOE not Lucasarts.

http://furiousfanboys.com/2011/12/soes-smed-feels-sorry-for-swgs-nge/

Found this earlier today about Smedly who was a complete butthead towards the community who had a petition signed of over 250k players asking them to roll it back. In which he gave us the bird and said he knew best and it was not going to happen.

 You don't bite the hand that allows you to run a mmo for your company....LA was the reason for the CU/NGE imo, Smed ran out a bunch of cover stories, with weak backing imo....Not a lot of classes, more like EQ2....If I remember right, EQ2 has a ton of classes (I don't play it)....

Smed was a jerk, not gonna say he wasn't, but he was a powerless jerk, because LA had final say on what went on with SWG....If you have final say, you also have first, right of refusal, etc... As much as people hate Smed/SoE, they often give LA a pass, and no quote or anything else is going to change that. LA was the boss/majority share holder for the game, when it came to decissions...I also state, I had never seen a mmo designer completely change a game, like they did at the stage it was in...You don't do that, unless you HAVE to do it...

As for some people arguements, and taking things out of context, I prefaced what all I said earlier with what fixes I thought they needed to do...I didn't run around saying as it stood before the CU/NGE it was the best thing ever, it needed bugs fixed, some balancing, and some more content (in the direction it was made)...With the CU/NGE effort, they could of channeled that into fixing the game imo...

Originally posted by prizm1234

SWG is dead. give it a rest and stop trying to turn this game into that pile of garbage. there is a reason it is dead. let it go already. so sick of all the SWG fanboys, all 5 of them trying to force this game to be that game.

/ THUMBS UP

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by prizm1234

SWG is dead. give it a rest and stop trying to turn this game into that pile of garbage. there is a reason it is dead. let it go already. so sick of all the SWG fanboys, all 5 of them trying to force this game to be that game.

/ THUMBS UP

Thanks for playing. We love you guys!

Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

Rage of the Wookiees expansion alone had a metric buttload of content with it.

So claiming that SWG had no content is pure rubbish.

It was a better game, plain and simple.

If modernized with today's technology? It would be a major breath of fresh air to this stagnant genre.  I won't say it'd be an amazing success, but it would be in a better place 6 months in than SW:TOR is now. (assuming it was made well.)

The base idea alone, the "soul" if you will... is far stronger a concept than Bioware's Story Machine idea. makes a better MMO, unarguable.

I feel if SWG had the story based quests that TOR had it would had been a much more solid game, and this is coming from a guy that quit TOR after 3 months due to boredom, Story was the one thing right TOR did do, SWG was lacking in immersive questing, lots of fed ex missions, of course I can do without the voice acting, just for main arc quests, but if SWG did have those decent wrtitten missions I think SWG's PVE quest grind would of been better, but then again in SWG you could chosse if you wanted to grind on monsters for XP or do quests that was the beauty of it you had a choice, unlike TOR and the rest of the jokes of MMOs today.

Originally posted by Xthos

Originally posted by aktalat

Originally posted by mmcguire2

SWG is the best MMO to date... pre-CU and NEG...

 

Same for me, even with all it's problems SWG was the one game I kept going back to over and over. Outside of Ultima Online nothing really engrossed me as much, and it's one of the few games I've ever played where I actually stayed in touch with some of the people, it's like the in-game relationships were more than just hack-and-slash. It's sad the way it went, there was so much variety and content in the game, compared to SWTOR. It's like SWTOR was this great leap backwards in game design or something.

 

Well, if you look at who designed much of SWG, it was littered with UO people, thats why I brought up design change in my post...Game was changed from what it was meant to be, when it just needed fixes and more content styled to what it was supposed to be.  I think LA had a lot to do with this not happening, I had never seen a company change a MMO so drastically before on their own.

 

Yes parts of the CU I could understand for SWG, prior to the CU you had professions like Teras Kasai Master, Fencer, Swordsman, Pikeman, etc, and they all had one or two-hand melee attack / defense... except they all had different numbers for offense and defense. So the profession balancing was a constant pain in the neck, with nonstop nerfs and changes going on.

Evem Raph Koster's stated comment that the economy was entirely player-run was not quite true, players created products and services, but harvestors were unable to be attacked in any way at all, whereas you could farm meatlumps all day for credits, resulting in credit farmers all over the place. I mean if you can't attack the harvestors, might as well hyperinflate the amount of currency in the game to allow you buy anything. Even I did it using Doctor buffbots, AFK loot grinding and so on.

But then SOE went totally the opposite direction and remade SWG with a WoW-like NGE. Which still boggles my mind, I mean NOONE has successfully made a clone of WoW... noone. WoW is WoW, let them be WoW, trying to make SWG (or SWTOR or any other game) like WoW is just dumb. Did Minecraft try and make itself like WoW? Of course not, it would be stupid to even try it. That's why Minecraft was such a hit.

Yes SWG had glitches at the beginning but all the MMO's in the late-90s / early 2000s had glitches. But you're right the changes were so drastic it was astounding. And it just left people confused and looking to try ther games at that point. Even though I never really left the game, I can certainly understand why other people did

Originally posted by Fingies
Well, although many think SWG should just die off.. it won't. There's already an nge emulator that is going to put up a server. This game won't die out. It has something no other MMOs currently have and will probably never have. I will be supporting it forever. It has no reason to die. In fact, Lucas would've put another ten years on the game had they not been a company greedy for money, as each contract for the IP license is 8-10 years. SWG won't die. Pre-cu SWGEmu.com Nge ProjectSWG.com

Imagine if any of the EMUs could give it a engine and graphics upgrade.

I know it wont happen but just think how iroic it will be if a SWG emu became the one and only "WOW killer".

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by prizm1234

SWG is dead. give it a rest and stop trying to turn this game into that pile of garbage. there is a reason it is dead. let it go already. so sick of all the SWG fanboys, all 5 of them trying to force this game to be that game.

/ THUMBS UP

OK then what game should TOR be turned into?  Apparently the game it is looses customers quicker than SWG Pre-NGE.  Oh, and you can count me as 6th "SWG fanboy".  Keep inmind you will be that TOR fanboy soon.

In killing SWG LA and Sony martyred the game. There are well deserved criticisms of SWG, but in the end (and in comparison to some of the newer games) SWG gave freedom of activity in a Star Wars universe that overcomes the downsides.

The spirit of SWG may well come to haunt the game companies when the theme park cycle ends.

Originally posted by JYCowboy

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by prizm1234

SWG is dead. give it a rest and stop trying to turn this game into that pile of garbage. there is a reason it is dead. let it go already. so sick of all the SWG fanboys, all 5 of them trying to force this game to be that game.

/ THUMBS UP

OK then what game should TOR be turned into?  Apparently the game it is looses customers quicker than SWG Pre-NGE.  Oh, and you can count me as 6th "SWG fanboy".  Keep inmind you will be that TOR fanboy soon.

Guess we need to start on the TOR wing at the old gamers home?

JY has a good question. Since SWG is all dead but the fanboys just wont shut up trying to turn TOR into SWG, then what exactly should TOR turn into? It's obvious it's current state is failing so if sandbox features wont fix it what will?

clicked link

clicked "here"

"73 questions in this survey"

Closed tab.

I really enjoyed SWG back before NGE and CU and a part of my soul died when they shut that game down. (it had 13 live servers when it shutdown, it was far from failing.) But I don't think I have ever enjoyed any game enough to take a 73 question survey for it. pfft.

Originally posted by VikingGamer

clicked link

clicked "here"

"73 questions in this survey"

Closed tab.

I really enjoyed SWG back before NGE and CU and a part of my soul died when they shut that game down. (it had 13 live servers when it shutdown, it was far from failing.) But I don't think I have ever enjoyed any game enough to take a 73 question survey for it. pfft.

seemed more like 30 at the most

Originally posted by JYCowboy

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by prizm1234

SWG is dead. give it a rest and stop trying to turn this game into that pile of garbage. there is a reason it is dead. let it go already. so sick of all the SWG fanboys, all 5 of them trying to force this game to be that game.

/ THUMBS UP

OK then what game should TOR be turned into?  Apparently the game it is looses customers quicker than SWG Pre-NGE. 

SWG wishes it had the sub numbers TOR has.

Oh, and you can count me as 6th "SWG fanboy".  Keep inmind you will be that TOR fanboy soon.

No I won't. If the game goes belly up, I'll move on. Sorry, but gaming just isn't something I crusade over.

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by JYCowboy

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by prizm1234

SWG is dead. give it a rest and stop trying to turn this game into that pile of garbage. there is a reason it is dead. let it go already. so sick of all the SWG fanboys, all 5 of them trying to force this game to be that game.

/ THUMBS UP

OK then what game should TOR be turned into?  Apparently the game it is looses customers quicker than SWG Pre-NGE. 

SWG wishes it had the sub numbers TOR has.

Oh, and you can count me as 6th "SWG fanboy".  Keep inmind you will be that TOR fanboy soon.

No I won't. If the game goes belly up, I'll move on. Sorry, but gaming just isn't something I crusade over.

Ah-huh.  Now Sack-Up and answer the question, Crusader.

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by JYCowboy

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by prizm1234

SWG is dead. give it a rest and stop trying to turn this game into that pile of garbage. there is a reason it is dead. let it go already. so sick of all the SWG fanboys, all 5 of them trying to force this game to be that game.

/ THUMBS UP

OK then what game should TOR be turned into?  Apparently the game it is looses customers quicker than SWG Pre-NGE. 

SWG wishes it had the sub numbers TOR has.

Oh, and you can count me as 6th "SWG fanboy".  Keep inmind you will be that TOR fanboy soon.

No I won't. If the game goes belly up, I'll move on. Sorry, but gaming just isn't something I crusade over.

SWG did not need all those subs as there was not so many servers, and because of that, none of the servers seemed dead, not until a lot lot later

You do seem to crusade over SWG players, and even post in the SWG forums.