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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » SWTOR vs. SWG survey

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118 posts found
  superniceguy

Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2278

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

5/21/12 10:10:15 PM#61
Originally posted by cutthecrap
Originally posted by jacklo
I see little difference in the perceptions of players back then vs now.

They still swamped the forums with complaints about balance changes, patches, bugs etc.


Many people were hurt by SWG. That came from a deep love of the game which will never happen with SWTOR.

From what I see, it's the same back then and now: a small, very active group of SWG fans have an extremely high devotion of SWG that will probably last till the day they die, while the majority of MMO gamers back then and right now couldn't care less about SWG and found it 'meh' or were/are neutral and indifferent about it. Meaning that the high, nearly ecstatic praise for SWG of that small, unrepresentative group of MMO gamers that are SWG fans doesn't reflect nor ever has the opinion of the majority of the MMO playerbase.

Not saying that it's wrong that they liked SWG so very much and thought it awesome and maybe even the best MMO made, just that it wasn't a viewpoint that was shared by every MMO gamer, not even the majority, back then nor now.

I doubt there will be as many people wanting SWTOR to return if it closes, as there are plenty of other MMOs out there similar to take its place. It does have the VOs which are unqiue but once you have played through them then there is not that much enjoyment going through them again.

SWG was unique to other MMOs, having loads of feature other MMOs do not have, and even when people complained about stuff and quit, they found other MMOs not so satisfying, and then returned to SWG and enjoyed the game again.

  jacklo

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/09
Posts: 583

5/21/12 10:10:15 PM#62
Originally posted by cutthecrap
Originally posted by jacklo
I see little difference in the perceptions of players back then vs now.

They still swamped the forums with complaints about balance changes, patches, bugs etc.


Many people were hurt by SWG. That came from a deep love of the game which will never happen with SWTOR.

From what I see, it's the same back then and now: a small, very active group of SWG fans have an extremely high devotion of SWG that will probably last till the day they die, while the majority of MMO gamers back then and right now couldn't care less about SWG and found it 'meh' or were/are neutral and indifferent about it. Meaning that the high, nearly ecstatic praise for SWG of that small, unrepresentative group of MMO gamers that are SWG fans doesn't reflect nor ever has the opinion of the majority of the MMO playerbase.

Not saying that it's wrong that they liked SWG so very much and thought it awesome and maybe even the best MMO made, just that it wasn't a viewpoint that was shared by every MMO gamer, not even the majority, back then nor now.

"From what I see, it's the same back then and now: a small, very active group of SWG fans have an extremely high devotion of SWG that will probably last till the day they die"
 
 
As small as you beleive that group to be, you won't see that kind of devotion to a game that wasn't epic in some way or another. Do you really see those feelings being extended to SWTOR?
  Pongo_

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/08/06
Posts: 35

5/21/12 10:16:22 PM#63

how can people say SWG had no content. 

i remember wonderful times, weekends full of spending time on sunrunner.  our guild geist had a city mos erratta on tatooine.

we would spend countless hours defending our town and bases from large groups of imperials.  calling in reinforcements from other rebel guilds. fighting huge battles, 100's of players,  beasts, AT-ST's, lagging, fighting, dieing. cloning and having a blast.

when it was all over we didn't log off or sit in some hub, we sat around in cantinas, mending our wounds, chatting about how great or awful we fought.  who got who.  you got to know your friends, and sometimes your enemies.

or working together as a guild to farm hide for our armorsmith, going out in groups to farm the creatures for resources.  scanning planets for that 90% spawn of 990 OQ kammis iron.

or the hours i spent crafting space ships and all the various parts for myself, and guildies.

or spending hours decorating my houses and ships.

so if content is only what is provided by devs, i guess we didn't have any

memories from playing swtor are watching some cutscreen of my character talking in some dev's predetermined story where even the dialog choices only matter depending on which lightside/darkside points you want

  a63ntorange

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/02/11
Posts: 28

5/21/12 10:18:43 PM#64
Originally posted by Istavaan

i played swg for 2 years and i played swtor for 4 weeks.

not empty quoting, but i lasted 2 years in swg, and 4 hours in swtor stress test weekend.  RIP Mos Vegas, outside anchorhead, shadowfire server.

  cutthecrap

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/29/12
Posts: 608

5/21/12 10:22:53 PM#65
Originally posted by jacklo

 
As small as you beleive that group to be, you won't see that kind of devotion to a game that wasn't epic in some way or another. Do you really see those feelings being extended to SWTOR?

Let's focus on the argument that I was making, shall we, instead of derailing into all kinds of sidepaths that you're trying to go into and that I wasn't saying anything about. Since you replied on my post, I assume that it was on the arguments I was actually making. Which was that SWG by the vast majority of MMO gamers wasn't regarded on the pedestal that the more ecstatic hardcore SWG fans put it on, this is the case in 2003-2004 pre-WoW era and this is the case today. That's why I sometimes get curious by the claims I see (some) people make on this site.

That's it. That's what my argument was about. If you reply on my posts, I'd like it if you stick to that instead of going off on your own derailments and topics, bc you don't need to reply on my posts for that.

 

Personally however, I find it nothing to be proud of, to keep pining about a game that apparently had its best days 7-8 years ago while resenting as good as all other MMO's bc they aren't like that. Seems like people are stuck who do that. I'd have said the MMO genre goodbye and find myself a more interesting hobby instead of wasting time on one that I didn't even enjoy so much anymore, if it were me in that situation. That'd seem like the more healthy, sensible kind of choice, but to each their own. Everyone's different in that.

 

Originally posted by superniceguy

SWG was unique to other MMOs, having loads of feature other MMOs do not have, and even when people complained about stuff and quit, they found other MMOs not so satisfying, and then returned to SWG and enjoyed the game again.

This is only partially true. First, there were of course very few MMO's to pick from back then. So people usually stuck around longer in an MMO, because hey, not that many options. People complained, quit, left MMO's or played other MMO's, a number returned, others stuck around in those other MMO's, how many's hard to tell. But when EQ2 and WoW arrived, the number of people that actually returned to SWG was a whole lot less than those who left. SWG, just like other MMO's, was hemorrhaging subs that didn't return. In fact it's safe to say that without WoW (and maybe EQ2, but I guess WoW the most), there'd never have been such significant bleeding away of subs, and there'd never have been the thought of an NGE to try to stop the bleeding.

  Uhwop

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1698

5/21/12 10:37:09 PM#66
Originally posted by cutthecrap
Originally posted by jacklo
I see little difference in the perceptions of players back then vs now.

They still swamped the forums with complaints about balance changes, patches, bugs etc.


Many people were hurt by SWG. That came from a deep love of the game which will never happen with SWTOR.

From what I see, it's the same back then and now: a small, very active group of SWG fans have an extremely high devotion of SWG that will probably last till the day they die, while the majority of MMO gamers back then and right now couldn't care less about SWG and found it 'meh' or were/are neutral and indifferent about it. Meaning that the high, nearly ecstatic praise for SWG of that small, unrepresentative group of MMO gamers that are SWG fans doesn't reflect nor ever has the opinion of the majority of the MMO playerbase.

Not saying that it's wrong that they liked SWG so very much and thought it awesome and maybe even the best MMO made, just that it wasn't a viewpoint that was shared by every MMO gamer, not even the majority, back then nor now.

 That would make perfect sense if half the playerbase didn't leave after the NGE.  The game had just as many people playing it as EQ ever did, and it was a drastically diffierent game from EQ. It was actually doing better then UO ever did.

Oddly enough, after they completely overhauled the game, it drove an incredibly large portion of the playerbase away, and they were never able to recoup.  The NGE was supposed to bring in more people, yet it had the suprising effect of bringing in less, as well as driving a significant portion of the playerbase away.   

That would be akin to blizzard turning WoW into a sandbox game, the magority of the playerbase leaving, and then you coming here and saying that no one every really enjoyed the game anyways; just a few die hard fans. 

Even people at SoE have admitted tha the NGE was the wrong thing to do, and that the game was never able to recover.  So much so that they said they'd never do something like that again. 

How could you possibly say that the magority of MMO gamers back then couldn't care about the game?  Especially when, prior to WoW releasing, the magority of MMO gamers were playing SWG and EQ.  500k-750k subscribers prior to WoW and the NGE and you seriously think that the magority of them didn't like the game.

You're actually coming across as someone who personally didn't like the game, and insists that everyone else had to feel the same way you did.  I never played SWG pre NGE, I can only go by what I've read in actual news articles and interviews with the folks at SoE.  Everything I've read points to a game that had many technical issues, but still managed to maintane a really healthy subscriber base, even by todays standards.

  mmoguy43

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/31/09
Posts: 2354

5/21/12 10:47:23 PM#67
Originally posted by a63ntorange
Originally posted by Istavaan

i played swg for 2 years and i played swtor for 4 weeks.

not empty quoting, but i lasted 2 years in swg, and 4 hours in swtor stress test weekend.  RIP Mos Vegas, outside anchorhead, shadowfire server.

I have over 2 weeks /played time in SWTOR and maybe 10 hours in SWG. At the time pre-cu SWG was uninteresting in comparison to Neocron. Fun combat just lasts longer...

Let's build the ultimate MMO 1 feature at a time
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/398555/page/1

"blocked nariusseldon since forever"

  cutthecrap

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/29/12
Posts: 608

5/21/12 10:48:04 PM#68
Originally posted by Uhwop

That would make perfect sense if half the playerbase didn't leave after the NGE.  The game had just as many people playing it as EQ ever did, and it was a drastically diffierent game from EQ. It was actually doing better then UO ever did.

Oddly enough, after they completely overhauled the game, it drove an incredibly large portion of the playerbase away, and they were never able to recoup.  The NGE was supposed to bring in more people, yet it had the suprising effect of bringing in less, as well as driving a significant portion of the playerbase away.   

That would be akin to blizzard turning WoW into a sandbox game, the magority of the playerbase leaving, and then you coming here and saying that no one every really enjoyed the game anyways; just a few die hard fans. 

Even people at SoE have admitted tha the NGE was the wrong thing to do, and that the game was never able to recover.  So much so that they said they'd never do something like that again. 

How could you possibly say that the magority of MMO gamers back then couldn't care about the game?  Especially when, prior to WoW releasing, the magority of MMO gamers were playing SWG and EQ.  500k-750k subscribers prior to WoW and the NGE and you seriously think that the magority of them didn't like the game.

You're actually coming across as someone who personally didn't like the game, and insists that everyone else had to feel the same way you did.  I never played SWG pre NGE, I can only go by what I've read in actual news articles and interviews with the folks at SoE.  Everything I've read points to a game that had many technical issues, but still managed to maintane a really healthy subscriber base, even by todays standards.

I don't believe I ever said that they didn't lose even more subs after the NGE. A lot of people however seemed to conveniently forget the effect that EQ2 and WoW had on other MMO's when they released, that led to an NGE in the first place. Which has been stated by the exact same people that admitted that the NGE was the wrong move. SWG at its peak had something around 300k subs or slightly over that, dipped below 200k within the year after EQ2's and WoW's launch.

I prefer it when people stick to actual facts and not history revisioning, that's all. As for SWG back then, from what I recall SWG was doing ok, but it was hardly doing extraordinary or regarded as exceptional compared with the other few MMO's around in that time. And things quickly changed when EQ2 and WoW arrived (and to a lesser degree GW).

 

  superniceguy

Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2278

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

5/21/12 10:52:31 PM#69
Originally posted by cutthecrap
Originally posted by jacklo

 
As small as you beleive that group to be, you won't see that kind of devotion to a game that wasn't epic in some way or another. Do you really see those feelings being extended to SWTOR?

Let's focus on the argument that I was making, shall we, instead of derailing into all kinds of sidepaths that you're trying to go into and that I wasn't saying anything about. Since you replied on my post, I assume that it was on the arguments I was actually making. Which was that SWG by the vast majority of MMO gamers wasn't regarded on the pedestal that the more ecstatic hardcore SWG fans put it on, this is the case in 2003-2004 pre-WoW era and this is the case today. That's why I sometimes get curious by the claims I see (some) people make on this site.

That's it. That's what my argument was about. If you reply on my posts, I'd like it if you stick to that instead of going off on your own derailments and topics, bc you don't need to reply on my posts for that.

 

Personally however, I find it nothing to be proud of, to keep pining about a game that apparently had its best days 7-8 years ago while resenting as good as all other MMO's bc they aren't like that. Seems like people are stuck who do that. I'd have said the MMO genre goodbye and find myself a more interesting hobby instead of wasting time on one that I didn't even enjoy so much anymore, if it were me in that situation. That'd seem like the more healthy, sensible kind of choice, but to each their own. Everyone's different in that.

 

Originally posted by superniceguy

SWG was unique to other MMOs, having loads of feature other MMOs do not have, and even when people complained about stuff and quit, they found other MMOs not so satisfying, and then returned to SWG and enjoyed the game again.

This is only partially true. First, there were of course very few MMO's to pick from back then. So people usually stuck around longer in an MMO, because hey, not that many options. People complained, quit, left MMO's or played other MMO's, a number returned, others stuck around in those other MMO's, how many's hard to tell. But when EQ2 and WoW arrived, the number of people that actually returned to SWG was a whole lot less than those who left. SWG, just like other MMO's, was hemorrhaging subs that didn't return. In fact it's safe to say that without WoW (and maybe EQ2, but I guess WoW the most), there'd never have been such significant bleeding away of subs, and there'd never have been the thought of an NGE to try to stop the bleeding.

I personally liked SWG in its final days. pre-CU was awesome, and it was only the changes that annoyed people. After all the updates, the game was pretty solid by 2011, and the best time I had with SWG was May-June 2011, and so did many others, when there was a boost of populations, and servers were becoming full, as they just did the free CTS and then granted 45 days due to the breach. People returned and were having a blast, then they decided to announce the closure of the game BEFORE people had the chance to resub.

Also LA said that both games would run side by side, but uncertain of SWGs future after that, plus SOE were in discussions to merge servers in 2012, there was definate life for SWG for at least one more year.

We were robbed of that extra time, and if there was not that boost in May-June 2011, then SWG shutting down would not have been so painful

Now 5 months later, we see SWTOR failing and dropping in subs faster, as is just a simple MMO, and more like a single player game with multiplayer options.

If SWTOR was the success it was meant to be, and it sustained the millions of subs and even gained more, and if I did not like it personally, I would not then bang on about SWG so much. SWG is now getting more of a mention due to apparant failure of SWTOR. I am not the only one, it is being said here, here, here and here for starters

  Jakard

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/19/06
Posts: 417

5/21/12 10:56:51 PM#70
Originally posted by mmcguire2

SWG is the best MMO to date... pre-CU and NEG...

 

You're kidding me, right? It's not even the best STar Wars MMO.

  cutthecrap

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/29/12
Posts: 608

5/21/12 10:59:03 PM#71

@superniceguy: I could be wrong of course, but I get the impression that SWG has been mentioned all the time in the months after SWTOR's launch and before the launch by SWG fans, not only just now or so. I mean, I can recall other SWG praising threads hop by from time to time. I wasn't paying that close attention though, so is what I'm saying wrong? Were SWG fans not mentioning and praising SWG in various threads before SWTOR's launch?

If so, then I agree that you have a point.

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

5/21/12 11:03:54 PM#72
Originally posted by jacklo

 no 3D X/Y axis that allowed shooting through the ground/walls/no jumping/ hovering mounts that stopped on a pebble.

Shooting through ground/walls was a problem in places but didn't happen everywhere. After playing a while you knew where this happened and could choose to avoid it or just get on with it.

No jumping... why did you need to jump anywhere?

Mounts stopping on a pebble... I think you exaggerate A LOT.

In fact, you seem to exaggerate almost entirely through the whole post.

No, shooting through the ground and walls happened everywhere there was a hill with a mob on the other side of it or a wall between you and the mob...even player houses.

Why does any game need jump? because its retarded not to do it which is why they at least gave the goofy looking animation....players demanded it.

You forgot, a LOT. Did you even play? The smallest rocks would bring you to a full stop even if you started moving again right away.

randomly placed waypoints that spawned in homes not only blocking entry but also preventing completion of the quest

Seriously, how many times did that happen to you? Once, twice... in how many years?

Once, Twice the first few days after setting up my player home as close to Coronet as I could...along with a bunch of other people...I know I know, the very idea that someone could experience something you didnt...unpossible!

the poor database handling in the game causing them to have daily downtime

I have never played a game since with more stable servers and uptime. Where are you coming from?

Now you are just showing you are a troll...SWG was the first MMORPG to have DAILY downtime.

 

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  jacklo

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/09
Posts: 583

5/21/12 11:05:43 PM#73
Originally posted by cutthecrap
Originally posted by jacklo

 
As small as you beleive that group to be, you won't see that kind of devotion to a game that wasn't epic in some way or another. Do you really see those feelings being extended to SWTOR?

Let's focus on the argument that I was making, shall we, instead of derailing into all kinds of sidepaths that you're trying to go into and that I wasn't saying anything about. Since you replied on my post, I assume that it was on the arguments I was actually making. Which was that SWG by the vast majority of MMO gamers wasn't regarded on the pedestal that the more ecstatic hardcore SWG fans put it on, this is the case in 2003-2004 pre-WoW era and this is the case today. That's why I sometimes get curious by the claims I see (some) people make on this site.

That's it. That's what my argument was about. If you reply on my posts, I'd like it if you stick to that instead of going off on your own derailments and topics, bc you don't need to reply on my posts for that.

 

Personally however, I find it nothing to be proud of, to keep pining about a game that apparently had its best days 7-8 years ago while resenting as good as all other MMO's bc they aren't like that. Seems like people are stuck who do that. I'd have said the MMO genre goodbye and find myself a more interesting hobby instead of wasting time on one that I didn't even enjoy so much anymore, if it were me in that situation. That'd seem like the more healthy, sensible kind of choice, but to each their own. Everyone's different in that.

 

Originally posted by superniceguy

SWG was unique to other MMOs, having loads of feature other MMOs do not have, and even when people complained about stuff and quit, they found other MMOs not so satisfying, and then returned to SWG and enjoyed the game again.

This is only partially true. First, there were of course very few MMO's to pick from back then. So people usually stuck around longer in an MMO, because hey, not that many options. People complained, quit, left MMO's or played other MMO's, a number returned, others stuck around in those other MMO's, how many's hard to tell. But when EQ2 and WoW arrived, the number of people that actually returned to SWG was a whole lot less than those who left. SWG, just like other MMO's, was hemorrhaging subs that didn't return. In fact it's safe to say that without WoW (and maybe EQ2, but I guess WoW the most), there'd never have been such significant bleeding away of subs, and there'd never have been the thought of an NGE to try to stop the bleeding.

Yes I replied to your post, so I don't understand how I can be de-railing it when I'm making a point about something you said.

Fine, you made your point. If you don't expect or want contradiction, maybe keep it to yourself next time?

  Uhwop

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1698

5/21/12 11:07:45 PM#74
Originally posted by cutthecrap
Originally posted by Uhwop

That would make perfect sense if half the playerbase didn't leave after the NGE.  The game had just as many people playing it as EQ ever did, and it was a drastically diffierent game from EQ. It was actually doing better then UO ever did.

Oddly enough, after they completely overhauled the game, it drove an incredibly large portion of the playerbase away, and they were never able to recoup.  The NGE was supposed to bring in more people, yet it had the suprising effect of bringing in less, as well as driving a significant portion of the playerbase away.   

That would be akin to blizzard turning WoW into a sandbox game, the magority of the playerbase leaving, and then you coming here and saying that no one every really enjoyed the game anyways; just a few die hard fans. 

Even people at SoE have admitted tha the NGE was the wrong thing to do, and that the game was never able to recover.  So much so that they said they'd never do something like that again. 

How could you possibly say that the magority of MMO gamers back then couldn't care about the game?  Especially when, prior to WoW releasing, the magority of MMO gamers were playing SWG and EQ.  500k-750k subscribers prior to WoW and the NGE and you seriously think that the magority of them didn't like the game.

You're actually coming across as someone who personally didn't like the game, and insists that everyone else had to feel the same way you did.  I never played SWG pre NGE, I can only go by what I've read in actual news articles and interviews with the folks at SoE.  Everything I've read points to a game that had many technical issues, but still managed to maintane a really healthy subscriber base, even by todays standards.

I don't believe I ever said that they didn't lose even more subs after the NGE. A lot of people however seemed to conveniently forget the effect that EQ2 and WoW had on other MMO's when they released, that led to an NGE in the first place. Which has been stated by the exact same people that admitted that the NGE was the wrong move. SWG that at its peak had something around 300k subs or slightly over that, dipped below 200k within the year after EQ2's and WoW's launch.

I prefer it when people stick to actual facts and not history revisioning, that's all. As for SWG back then, from what I recall SWG was doing ok, but it was hardly doing extraordinary or regarded as exceptional compared with the other few MMO's around in that time. And things quickly changed when EQ2 and WoW arrived (and to a lesser degree GW).

 

 And yet you're ignoring a very important correlation here.

The players weren't leaving in droves prior to the NGE, they left AFTER.  When the company of the game says that thier attempt to make the game more like WoW is the reason everyone started leaving, I'm inclined to believe them and not some guy on the interenet who thinks his opinion is right.

You're falling for that same trap as everyone else.  WoW didn't pull droves of people away from existing MMO's, there weren't a lot to begin with, WoW brought in NEW mmo gamers.  Some left, not the magority, and not so many that existing MMO's weren't able to replenish.  I was playing Lineage 2 when wow released.  There were just as many people playing after WoW released.  Some went to play WoW, but it wasn't most, the mogority, or even what you could resonibly call a lot.  WoW was a completely diffierent game, and people playing L2 were playing it for very specific reasons, and WoW didn't offer anything close to the same kind of gameplay.  The exact same thing for SWG.

MMO's weren't shutting down left and right when WoW released. 

The NGE wasn't an attempt to get back players, they were trying to get MORE players, and it had the opposite effect. 

 

  superniceguy

Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2278

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

5/21/12 11:24:11 PM#75
Originally posted by cutthecrap

@superniceguy: I could be wrong of course, but I get the impression that SWG has been mentioned all the time in the months after SWTOR's launch and before the launch by SWG fans, not only just now or so. I mean, I can recall other SWG praising threads hop by from time to time. I wasn't paying that close attention though, so is what I'm saying wrong? Were SWG fans not mentioning and praising SWG in various threads before SWTOR's launch?

If so, then I agree that you have a point.

Dunno too much as was too busy playing SWG to post beforehand but was annoyed by the deceipt and resented SWTOR for "replacing" SWG, instead of SWG naturally dying off or going F2P - If loads of current SOE customers played swg may-june, making3 more servers go from light to full  then plenty more would have played if it went F2P.

There would have been other threads praising SWG always, but I have not seen so many posts about SWG as these past few months, and even from those kind of not caring SWG shutdown in DEC.who was laughing at people missing SWG. SWTOR was expected to be the "Gift from the Gods"  and it has not been

  cutthecrap

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/29/12
Posts: 608

5/21/12 11:36:05 PM#76
Originally posted by jacklo

Yes I replied to your post, so I don't understand how I can be de-railing it when I'm making a point about something you said.

Fine, you made your point. If you don't expect or want contradiction, maybe keep it to yourself next time?

Christ. Ok, here it goes: I wasn't talking about SWTOR or NGE, I was talking about the perception of SWG throughout the MMO playerbase before any NGE ever hit the scene. You were the one that went off on sidetracks and felt the need to introduce SWTOR and NGE that had nothing to do with my argument in the post you quoted, completely ignoring or misunderstanding what I was talking about. Next time when you feel the need to go off on sidetracks into your own derailments, do so without misusing and quoting my posts that have nothing to do at all with whatever point you're trying to make.

Is that clear enough?

 

Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by cutthecrap
Originally posted by Uhwop

That would make perfect sense if half the playerbase didn't leave after the NGE.  The game had just as many people playing it as EQ ever did, and it was a drastically diffierent game from EQ. It was actually doing better then UO ever did.

Oddly enough, after they completely overhauled the game, it drove an incredibly large portion of the playerbase away, and they were never able to recoup.  The NGE was supposed to bring in more people, yet it had the suprising effect of bringing in less, as well as driving a significant portion of the playerbase away.   

That would be akin to blizzard turning WoW into a sandbox game, the magority of the playerbase leaving, and then you coming here and saying that no one every really enjoyed the game anyways; just a few die hard fans. 

Even people at SoE have admitted tha the NGE was the wrong thing to do, and that the game was never able to recover.  So much so that they said they'd never do something like that again. 

How could you possibly say that the magority of MMO gamers back then couldn't care about the game?  Especially when, prior to WoW releasing, the magority of MMO gamers were playing SWG and EQ.  500k-750k subscribers prior to WoW and the NGE and you seriously think that the magority of them didn't like the game.

You're actually coming across as someone who personally didn't like the game, and insists that everyone else had to feel the same way you did.  I never played SWG pre NGE, I can only go by what I've read in actual news articles and interviews with the folks at SoE.  Everything I've read points to a game that had many technical issues, but still managed to maintane a really healthy subscriber base, even by todays standards.

I don't believe I ever said that they didn't lose even more subs after the NGE. A lot of people however seemed to conveniently forget the effect that EQ2 and WoW had on other MMO's when they released, that led to an NGE in the first place. Which has been stated by the exact same people that admitted that the NGE was the wrong move. SWG that at its peak had something around 300k subs or slightly over that, dipped below 200k within the year after EQ2's and WoW's launch.

I prefer it when people stick to actual facts and not history revisioning, that's all. As for SWG back then, from what I recall SWG was doing ok, but it was hardly doing extraordinary or regarded as exceptional compared with the other few MMO's around in that time. And things quickly changed when EQ2 and WoW arrived (and to a lesser degree GW).

 

 And yet you're ignoring a very important correlation here.

The players weren't leaving in droves prior to the NGE, they left AFTER.  When the company of the game says that thier attempt to make the game more like WoW is the reason everyone started leaving, I'm inclined to believe them and not some guy on the interenet who thinks his opinion is right. 

Wrong on both accounts. Players were leaving in droves prior to the NGE AND after the NGE. Bleeding subs was significant since EQ2/WoW launch, which resulted in an attempt to turn the tide, the NGE move. In fact, this has been stated literally by the exact same company guys you were quoting.

So, those are the facts: SOE company guys stating themselves that they were hemorrhaging subs since EQ2/WoW and admitting that this was a very important cause for them going into an NGE change. And the subs themselves that for most AAA MMO's showed a significant drop end of 2004/course of 2005, including those of SWG but not only limited to SWG. I'm inclined to believe facts like those instead of MMO revisionism that everything was blissful and almost perfect and SWG the best, most popular and loved MMO around (yes, I know, hyperbole) before the NGE. 

 

You're falling for that same trap as everyone else.  WoW didn't pull droves of people away from existing MMO's, there weren't a lot to begin with, WoW brought in NEW mmo gamers.  Some left, not the magority, and not so many that existing MMO's weren't able to replenish.  I was playing Lineage 2 when wow released.  There were just as many people playing after WoW released.  Some went to play WoW, but it wasn't most, the mogority, or even what you could resonibly call a lot.  WoW was a completely diffierent game, and people playing L2 were playing it for very specific reasons, and WoW didn't offer anything close to the same kind of gameplay.  The exact same thing for SWG.

MMO's weren't shutting down left and right when WoW released. 

The NGE wasn't an attempt to get back players, they were trying to get MORE players, and it had the opposite effect.  

WoW brought in new MMO gamers, AND it attracted hordes of MMO gamers of existing MMO's. Saying otherwise is a case of MMO history revisionism. I suggest you do some more research into that timeperiod and articles of that time. 

  cutthecrap

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/29/12
Posts: 608

5/21/12 11:41:48 PM#77
Originally posted by superniceguy

Dunno too much as was too busy playing SWG to post beforehand but was annoyed by the deceipt and resented SWTOR for "replacing" SWG, instead of SWG naturally dying off or going F2P - If loads of current SOE customers played swg may-june, making3 more servers go from light to full  then plenty more would have played if it went F2P.

There would have been other threads praising SWG always, but I have not seen so many posts about SWG as these past few months, and even from those kind of not caring SWG shutdown in DEC.who was laughing at people missing SWG. SWTOR was expected to be the "Gift from the Gods"  and it has not been

As SWG apparently is considered the 'gift from the gods' by its hardcore fans while it also isn't? Anyway, I wasn't around or active here before SWTOR launch so I can't say. Something tells me that you're wrong and that the same SWG hallelujah criers would've been doing the exact same all the time for the past year (bc that'd makes most sense to me as a behavioral pattern), but I don't feel inclined to check for myself and dig through all the threads of Fall and Winter 2011. So, shrug, if you say so

  DeaconX

Novice Member

Joined: 2/08/05
Posts: 3075

Stand up for what you believe; Even if you stand alone.
-==X==-
SHH, my COMMON SENSE is tingling!

5/22/12 12:25:54 AM#78

IF they had not shut SWG down, I wonder if people would have subbed to it in a significant measure... as if in protest against SWTOR


Why do I write, create, fantasize, dream and daydream about other worlds? Because I hate what humanity does with this one.

BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.

  CujoSWAoA

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/27/04
Posts: 1848

"Pablo Picasso said art is a lie that tells the truth."

5/22/12 1:08:20 AM#79

Rage of the Wookiees expansion alone had a metric buttload of content with it.

So claiming that SWG had no content is pure rubbish.

It was a better game, plain and simple.

If modernized with today's technology? It would be a major breath of fresh air to this stagnant genre.  I won't say it'd be an amazing success, but it would be in a better place 6 months in than SW:TOR is now. (assuming it was made well.)

The base idea alone, the "soul" if you will... is far stronger a concept than Bioware's Story Machine idea. makes a better MMO, unarguable.

  superniceguy

Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2278

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

5/22/12 4:44:22 AM#80
Originally posted by cutthecrap
Originally posted by superniceguy

Dunno too much as was too busy playing SWG to post beforehand but was annoyed by the deceipt and resented SWTOR for "replacing" SWG, instead of SWG naturally dying off or going F2P - If loads of current SOE customers played swg may-june, making3 more servers go from light to full  then plenty more would have played if it went F2P.

There would have been other threads praising SWG always, but I have not seen so many posts about SWG as these past few months, and even from those kind of not caring SWG shutdown in DEC.who was laughing at people missing SWG. SWTOR was expected to be the "Gift from the Gods"  and it has not been

As SWG apparently is considered the 'gift from the gods' by its hardcore fans while it also isn't? Anyway, I wasn't around or active here before SWTOR launch so I can't say. Something tells me that you're wrong and that the same SWG hallelujah criers would've been doing the exact same all the time for the past year (bc that'd makes most sense to me as a behavioral pattern), but I don't feel inclined to check for myself and dig through all the threads of Fall and Winter 2011. So, shrug, if you say so

I would not say that people thought SWG was the gift from the gods at the time. SWTOR was though, before launch - Bioware + 300 million dollars + over 3 years in development = Guaranteed success, hence 2 mill sales at launch before any of them even tried or seen months of play of the final version.

SWG had its problems, and epsecially the nonsense that went on with CU and then NGE, but through it all SWG just offered the best all round entertianment experiemce. Only those who can not see past the bugs and the major changes, do not bother with SWG. SWG makes it through the sum of its parts. SWTOR is lacking in so many ways even compared to other MMOs, and not just SWG. It is more like a single player game like Mass Effect which Bioware do well, with multiplayer options, than a fully explorable MMO that deserves a monthly fee.

SWG fans were always going on about SWG, but even those that were not total fans and did not care that SWG shut down and looking towards SWTOR are also now missing SWG as proven to you in that link, which was only posted yesterday. I do not know why you need to dig through old posts, when I have given you the links, and can see what I say is true for recent posts, but I guess you just do not want to see SWG as a good game, even if you can see it all blaring with full beams into your eyes!

I know for a solid fact I would not be banging on about SWG so much now if SWTOR was not failing so hard, because if SWTOR was doing really well there would be 0% chance it would return as EA / LA would be rolling in it and SWG would have been a thing of the past. There is a chance atm, as they may get it back to make up for lost revenue from SWTOR that they thought they would be getting.

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