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  ArChWind

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/19/11
Posts: 471

 
OP  5/20/12 3:29:39 PM#1
Title:
 
 
MOVW – Massively Online Virtual World.
 
 
Post apoplectic world with medieval theme.
 
 
Archwind (Old name Kingdoms of when) – You heard it before? I talk about it many times here and elsewhere.
 
 
Features:
 
Immense world – 60 Km x Km. 51.2 14 cities, 100+ dungeons.
 
I have 100% of the landmass completed in under 70 hours of work. I am 21 days from having the world texturing to edit point. It is 100% computer generated.
 
 
Open world PvP with optional PvE only. Play how you want.
 
 
Three distinct factions with two sub factions.
 
Cross faction alliances.
 
 
Border conflicts for resource control and land control.
 
 
Multipath quest system with multiple outcomes that effect how the world perceives you. - The writer is standing by waiting for payment. The novel is a multi-path novel where you choose the outcome and the outcome is not ending but the beginning. The quest system is based on the lore of the novel and therefore has no direct path. You will have to buy the novel to get the DvDs to play because it is a packaged deal.
 
 
In-depth crafting system where all drops in the world are useable.
 
 
Collections, trophies and player housing.
 
 
No instances.
 
 
No classes
 
 
Five levels of game play skills. No monster levels or player levels just skill levels.
 
 
Status in the world means something so you can become famous or infamous. It cost gold and status to go to war and the winner get the oppositions gold and world status.
 
 
Current state:
 
 
Discontinued for the following reasons:
 
 
I hear it so many times here and elsewhere by the vast majority. ‘It is a indie game and therefore considered sub par’
 
 
No investor is interested in such a thing. Everyone says this multimillion dollar investment will crash and burn. --
 
Big television network advertised here in 2008 looking for someone to build them a MMORPG. At that time I answered the call because I was in the ballpark with the design related to their theme. They wanted me to build the game and spend my own money at which they would HYPE it. The negations broke off after I refused to do it without a contract and upfront investment. Someone I know said he could get 5 million but that deal was not to be because his investors don’t want to risk it after the newer AAA titles busted.
 
 
Future speculation:
 
 
My team stands ready (maybe for a few more months) but they don’t work unless they get paid. No investor equal no work. I got a email from Hero Engine that they are releasing a commercial subscription with all the bells and whistles so on June 1 I am switching engines to Hero Engine because I can get a full blown MMO engine without having to invest millions and fewer limitations on the tool set.
 
 
 
Seriously
  ArChWind

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/19/11
Posts: 471

 
OP  5/20/12 3:55:50 PM#2

WTH? This was to be a reply to another post.

  Cephus404

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3429

5/20/12 5:14:57 PM#3

After reading that, I can honestly say that pretty much nothing in there is anything that I'd have any interest in whatsoever.

Post-apoc world?  No.

PVP?  No.

 

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None

  xDayx

Novice Member

Joined: 9/08/11
Posts: 713

5/20/12 5:22:44 PM#4

I would be interested in it just off that write-up as my favorite games are Mortal Online, Darkfall, and interested in playing Embers of Caerus if it releases.

A couple things that sounded a little off to me though or wasnt covered:

-Quests, I despise them.

-PVE-Optional? Why wouldn't a hungry bear aggro you?

-Crafting and resource gathering not mentioned. Would need a detailed crafting and resource system.

-No player construction?

  Kalfer

Novice Member

Joined: 3/09/11
Posts: 748

5/20/12 5:27:53 PM#5

Real time combat?

 

tight controls like an FPS? 

 

minimalistic but attractive UI?

 

 

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4508

5/20/12 5:35:57 PM#6

First of all, kudos for attempting to make your own MMO. I really do hope it works out for you.

Some things I noticed, which may be contributing factors towards your financing problems.

1) Atm most of what you have are idealistic promises. They sound nice, but as an indie developer it's really hard to get backing on promises alone. You either need contacts that trust you (usually based off your past achievements) or you need to show that you know what you're doing. Without either of those, it's nearly impossible to get enough funding. You could try something like kickstarter, though.

2) The generated terrain you have looks nice, but that is such a small part of the game. My old roommate did the same thing in college basically overnight. The problem comes in populating it. I.E. you have a demo of one of the towns you are adding into the game, and the FPS takes a nose-dive with hardly anything in the town.

This will get better once optimised, but you'll also (theoretically) have waay more stuff into your world to make it interesting.

- As an indie gamer, I would focus on trying to make a game that's less content-dependant, but has really strong gameplay. It'll be cheaper, faster, and you'll have a much better chance of seeing your project launch. Else, you could go the other route, and do all the content yourself, but use very old graphics (i.e. Minecraft). One of the reasons I actually like indie games, is because their limited budgets actually force good developers to focus on gameplay, rather than fluff. I'd suggest doing the same, and hopefully down the road, if your project gains popularity, you can make the game you wanted to make, with all the bells & whistles.

  Calerxes

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/06/09
Posts: 1658

5/20/12 6:57:51 PM#7
Originally posted by aesperus

First of all, kudos for attempting to make your own MMO. I really do hope it works out for you.

Some things I noticed, which may be contributing factors towards your financing problems.

1) Atm most of what you have are idealistic promises. They sound nice, but as an indie developer it's really hard to get backing on promises alone. You either need contacts that trust you (usually based off your past achievements) or you need to show that you know what you're doing. Without either of those, it's nearly impossible to get enough funding. You could try something like kickstarter, though.

2) The generated terrain you have looks nice, but that is such a small part of the game. My old roommate did the same thing in college basically overnight. The problem comes in populating it. I.E. you have a demo of one of the towns you are adding into the game, and the FPS takes a nose-dive with hardly anything in the town.

This will get better once optimised, but you'll also (theoretically) have waay more stuff into your world to make it interesting.

- As an indie gamer, I would focus on trying to make a game that's less content-dependant, but has really strong gameplay. It'll be cheaper, faster, and you'll have a much better chance of seeing your project launch. Else, you could go the other route, and do all the content yourself, but use very old graphics (i.e. Minecraft). One of the reasons I actually like indie games, is because their limited budgets actually force good developers to focus on gameplay, rather than fluff. I'd suggest doing the same, and hopefully down the road, if your project gains popularity, you can make the game you wanted to make, with all the bells & whistles.

 

Very good advice Aesperus, the main problem with Indie MMO developers is they bite of more than they can chew. Start small and work your way up to big. Try building a Mud and see how that goes you'll be surprised how many muds are still played today, so there is a market. They are easier to build and you'll learn about mechanics and gameplay over models and graphics basically you'll learn how to make a game interesting. Because as all old gamers know GAMEPLAY IS KING.

 

http://www.mudconnect.com/

 

This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  ArChWind

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/19/11
Posts: 471

 
OP  5/20/12 7:20:00 PM#8
Originally posted by aesperus

First of all, kudos for attempting to make your own MMO. I really do hope it works out for you.

Some things I noticed, which may be contributing factors towards your financing problems.

1) Atm most of what you have are idealistic promises. They sound nice, but as an indie developer it's really hard to get backing on promises alone. You either need contacts that trust you (usually based off your past achievements) or you need to show that you know what you're doing. Without either of those, it's nearly impossible to get enough funding. You could try something like kickstarter, though.

2) The generated terrain you have looks nice, but that is such a small part of the game. My old roommate did the same thing in college basically overnight. The problem comes in populating it. I.E. you have a demo of one of the towns you are adding into the game, and the FPS takes a nose-dive with hardly anything in the town.

This will get better once optimised, but you'll also (theoretically) have waay more stuff into your world to make it interesting.

- As an indie gamer, I would focus on trying to make a game that's less content-dependant, but has really strong gameplay. It'll be cheaper, faster, and you'll have a much better chance of seeing your project launch. Else, you could go the other route, and do all the content yourself, but use very old graphics (i.e. Minecraft). One of the reasons I actually like indie games, is because their limited budgets actually force good developers to focus on gameplay, rather than fluff. I'd suggest doing the same, and hopefully down the road, if your project gains popularity, you can make the game you wanted to make, with all the bells & whistles.

 

We been working on this since 2004 off and on with a multitude of engine issues and financial issues. I actually quit working on it for almost a year when out of the blue I got this offer last September to make it and set out to round up the team again. Well, the thing fell flat so I was going to shit can it but this new Hero deal makes it sweet again.  :)
 
As for your friend making a world this size in an evening I can tell you his did not have near the detail because this is 64 - 8K chunks of terrain and the initial 1/8 scale model I use to make these 64 chunks took 27 hours to generate. This world size is equal to Eve Online. At full sprint it takes 3 hours to cross it, 4 hours to run across it and 17 hours to walk it.
 
I am working on a much smaller scale now but the rest of the game description is real.
 
This was just to show that there are engines capable of doing massive sized worlds
 
If you read a few other posts recently about large worlds, you would understand what I was relating.
  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11358

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

5/20/12 7:50:15 PM#9
Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by aesperus

First of all, kudos for attempting to make your own MMO. I really do hope it works out for you.

Some things I noticed, which may be contributing factors towards your financing problems.

1) Atm most of what you have are idealistic promises. They sound nice, but as an indie developer it's really hard to get backing on promises alone. You either need contacts that trust you (usually based off your past achievements) or you need to show that you know what you're doing. Without either of those, it's nearly impossible to get enough funding. You could try something like kickstarter, though.

2) The generated terrain you have looks nice, but that is such a small part of the game. My old roommate did the same thing in college basically overnight. The problem comes in populating it. I.E. you have a demo of one of the towns you are adding into the game, and the FPS takes a nose-dive with hardly anything in the town.

This will get better once optimised, but you'll also (theoretically) have waay more stuff into your world to make it interesting.

- As an indie gamer, I would focus on trying to make a game that's less content-dependant, but has really strong gameplay. It'll be cheaper, faster, and you'll have a much better chance of seeing your project launch. Else, you could go the other route, and do all the content yourself, but use very old graphics (i.e. Minecraft). One of the reasons I actually like indie games, is because their limited budgets actually force good developers to focus on gameplay, rather than fluff. I'd suggest doing the same, and hopefully down the road, if your project gains popularity, you can make the game you wanted to make, with all the bells & whistles.

 

Very good advice Aesperus, the main problem with Indie MMO developers is they bite of more than they can chew. Start small and work your way up to big. Try building a Mud and see how that goes you'll be surprised how many muds are still played today, so there is a market. They are easier to build and you'll learn about mechanics and gameplay over models and graphics basically you'll learn how to make a game interesting. Because as all old gamers know GAMEPLAY IS KING.

 

http://www.mudconnect.com/

Excellent stuff from both of the above.

Arch, get a bit more meat into it and then revisit the investor idea. Currently what you have so far isn't enough to show there's any game present. Create 15 minutes of engaging content. You can do it in Gamemaker, RealmCrafter... anything actually. With a reasonable proff of concept or tech demo you'd have a better chance at getting backing. As for Kickstarter, don't bother with it until you're in alpha and, even then, with no industry names or previous titles for a core group to rally behind, you'd be hard pressed to meet any realistic funding goals.

Keep hammering away at it. Once you have something that can be shown off in a 10-15 minute demo, start aggressively looking for backers. 

  JayFiveAlive

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/04/09
Posts: 428

5/20/12 7:57:14 PM#10
Originally posted by ArChWind
My team stands ready (maybe for a few more months) but they don’t work unless they get paid. No investor equal no work. I got a email from Hero Engine that they are releasing a commercial subscription with all the bells and whistles so on June 1 I am switching engines to Hero Engine because I can get a full blown MMO engine without having to invest millions and fewer limitations on the tool set.
 
 
 
Seriously

Have you heard of this new site called Kickstarter? http://www.kickstarter.com/

It's meant for folks like yourself. Good luck!

  ArChWind

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/19/11
Posts: 471

 
OP  5/20/12 8:14:21 PM#11
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by aesperus

First of all, kudos for attempting to make your own MMO. I really do hope it works out for you.

Some things I noticed, which may be contributing factors towards your financing problems.

1) Atm most of what you have are idealistic promises. They sound nice, but as an indie developer it's really hard to get backing on promises alone. You either need contacts that trust you (usually based off your past achievements) or you need to show that you know what you're doing. Without either of those, it's nearly impossible to get enough funding. You could try something like kickstarter, though.

2) The generated terrain you have looks nice, but that is such a small part of the game. My old roommate did the same thing in college basically overnight. The problem comes in populating it. I.E. you have a demo of one of the towns you are adding into the game, and the FPS takes a nose-dive with hardly anything in the town.

This will get better once optimised, but you'll also (theoretically) have waay more stuff into your world to make it interesting.

- As an indie gamer, I would focus on trying to make a game that's less content-dependant, but has really strong gameplay. It'll be cheaper, faster, and you'll have a much better chance of seeing your project launch. Else, you could go the other route, and do all the content yourself, but use very old graphics (i.e. Minecraft). One of the reasons I actually like indie games, is because their limited budgets actually force good developers to focus on gameplay, rather than fluff. I'd suggest doing the same, and hopefully down the road, if your project gains popularity, you can make the game you wanted to make, with all the bells & whistles.

 

Very good advice Aesperus, the main problem with Indie MMO developers is they bite of more than they can chew. Start small and work your way up to big. Try building a Mud and see how that goes you'll be surprised how many muds are still played today, so there is a market. They are easier to build and you'll learn about mechanics and gameplay over models and graphics basically you'll learn how to make a game interesting. Because as all old gamers know GAMEPLAY IS KING.

 

http://www.mudconnect.com/

Excellent stuff from both of the above.

Arch, get a bit more meat into it and then revisit the investor idea. Currently what you have so far isn't enough to show there's any game present. Create 15 minutes of engaging content. You can do it in Gamemaker, RealmCrafter... anything actually. With a reasonable proff of concept or tech demo you'd have a better chance at getting backing. As for Kickstarter, don't bother with it until you're in alpha and, even then, with no industry names or previous titles for a core group to rally behind, you'd be hard pressed to meet any realistic funding goals.

Keep hammering away at it. Once you have something that can be shown off in a 10-15 minute demo, start aggressively looking for backers. 

 I will keep working at it Loktofiet and yeah we revist the investors in maybe 5 to 6 months. With HE I think I can rebuild the team and possibly make it work this time around. Not making promisses though.

Miss the old board BTW.

  ArChWind

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/19/11
Posts: 471

 
OP  5/20/12 8:20:20 PM#12
Originally posted by JayFiveAlive
Originally posted by ArChWind
My team stands ready (maybe for a few more months) but they don’t work unless they get paid. No investor equal no work. I got a email from Hero Engine that they are releasing a commercial subscription with all the bells and whistles so on June 1 I am switching engines to Hero Engine because I can get a full blown MMO engine without having to invest millions and fewer limitations on the tool set.
 
 
 
Seriously

Have you heard of this new site called Kickstarter? http://www.kickstarter.com/

It's meant for folks like yourself. Good luck!

 No I did not know about this link.  I need to regroup first now and see where it goes.

Thank you.

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4508

5/21/12 12:30:24 AM#13
Originally posted by ArChWind

We been working on this since 2004 off and on with a multitude of engine issues and financial issues. I actually quit working on it for almost a year when out of the blue I got this offer last September to make it and set out to round up the team again. Well, the thing fell flat so I was going to shit can it but this new Hero deal makes it sweet again.  :)
 
As for your friend making a world this size in an evening I can tell you his did not have near the detail because this is 64 - 8K chunks of terrain and the initial 1/8 scale model I use to make these 64 chunks took 27 hours to generate. This world size is equal to Eve Online. At full sprint it takes 3 hours to cross it, 4 hours to run across it and 17 hours to walk it.
 
I am working on a much smaller scale now but the rest of the game description is real.
 
This was just to show that there are engines capable of doing massive sized worlds
 
If you read a few other posts recently about large worlds, you would understand what I was relating.

Wow, sounds like quite a long haul.

I didn't mean to imply that my friend did what you did in a night. I didn't mean that at all. I just meant that having terrain laid out doesn't take that long, and I know some people focus on it, but if budget is an issue (and it sounds like it is), it's something that can be done quickly, and procedurally. His was actually larger, but it was algorythmically generated. It was definitely less detailed up close, especially compared to the areas you built w/ custom grass, tree, & building layouts. I know that's not ideal for a game, especially if you have a specific vision inmind, but it is a route one can take.

The point I was trying to make was more, when you're constrained on game assets, in a genre that is very demanding of assests, it's generally better to shift the focus a bit. Minecraft is a good example of this. The game looks terrible, it's ugly, and there's not a ton of detail there. However, it's an extremely well designed game, and people love it. Pick a focus, screw the graphics, just make it playable and fun. Focus on the gameplay / game design. You'll have a good game, and if it's executed well, people won't care that the graphics aren't good. Some may even like that about it.

 

  User Deleted
5/21/12 12:35:43 AM#14

I can safely say that people are not looking for "yet" another FFA PvP system.

 

 

 

 

 

 

When are you guys going to get it through your thick skulls that MMO players are looking for a virtual world with open ended gameplay, huge land masses to explore, detailed crafting, including player built and ran cities and a return of the genre to the pre WoW era.  Theres been a ton of FFA Sandboxes, give us a Skyrim type virtual world with thousands of hidden questing based on an explorable-non-hand-holding theme.

 

Post Apocalytpic is my favorite reading material but High Fantasy will always be my gaming medium of choice.

  Unkillable

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/21/12
Posts: 109

5/21/12 1:23:24 AM#15

honestly i cant see how there are so many negative posts about the game and ideas.

 

i play mmos for pvp and for pvp only. this mans idea and game (in my eyes) would grab a whole crop of pvpers and hardcore gamers and probally keep them interested.

 

im am not attacking anyone in this thread at all, but a lot of the people that responded to this post seem to not be this guys target demographic. and thats unfortunate, because this idea and set of rules has NEVER BEEN DONE RIGHT EVER...YET.(PERIOD)

 

i just started playing daoc a month back (never touched it in its hayday) and its fun and neat and all, but its to old and takes to much previous knowledge. you wont find help on any daoc board for complicated things youll need, like (how to gear out your char properly) because the community seems to tell people to "re-roll" instead of giving them class advice.

 

this idea and game have EXTREME potential, to a very real demographic of PvPers that are SICK OF BULLSHIT GAMES. i know i am, ive bought and or beta tested EVERY new mmo about to come out or out already and i have to say, games and my love for them are dwindling fast (if i cant find a good one soon). and im not some old guy either, im 26, and games have been my entertainment focus since a young kid.

my final point is this,

-the demographic is there

-people will want to play this

-this game should get funded no problem in my eyes

-PvPers DONT HAVE A GAME RIGHT NOW

-his feature list is not a dream list, its a real feature list, WITH PROMISE!

-I need to see this game through

 

thanks for reading whoever has, and to the OP, i sent you a PM, please take a look at it!

 

 

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11358

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

5/21/12 5:47:56 AM#16
Originally posted by Unkillable

 

-the demographic is there

-people will want to play this

-this game should get funded no problem in my eyes

-PvPers DONT HAVE A GAME RIGHT NOW

-his feature list is not a dream list, its a real feature list, WITH PROMISE!

Thank you for writing this as your first post. I wish all posters would indicate right off the bat their level of expertise and understanding regarding the fields they choose to discuss so all future posts can be read in the proper context. Kudos to you, sir!

 

  Volkon

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3804

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

5/21/12 7:14:29 AM#17

    The whole "compete against others" in the PvE world has, to me, grown old and tired. All you do is breed a system of griefing, pre-teen ego trips and temepr tantrums. Good luck, but not for me.

    I much prefer PvP when I want it, not when some other person thinks it'll be fun to screw with my playtime. Balanced PvP at that... none of that "my gear is so much better therefore you have no chance" crap that passes as gameplay in the lesser MMOs of today.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17959

5/21/12 10:57:10 AM#18

No. This is not what i want.

  Disdena

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 1098

5/21/12 1:06:52 PM#19
Originally posted by aesperus

Wow, sounds like quite a long haul.

I didn't mean to imply that my friend did what you did in a night. I didn't mean that at all. I just meant that having terrain laid out doesn't take that long, and I know some people focus on it, but if budget is an issue (and it sounds like it is), it's something that can be done quickly, and procedurally. His was actually larger, but it was algorythmically generated. It was definitely less detailed up close, especially compared to the areas you built w/ custom grass, tree, & building layouts. I know that's not ideal for a game, especially if you have a specific vision inmind, but it is a route one can take.

You're absolutely right, though. If the end result is no more detailed than one day's work on a world generated by an algorithm, then it was mostly a waste of time.

All of these designers who are trying to build a needlessly gigantic MMO world are all missing the same vital concept. If you have nothing to fill your world with, running across all that empty space is just a boring waste of time. And I'm NOT saying that as some advocate of fast travel. The point of having a big world is that there are a lot of places to go, not that they are so far apart.

It may be an unfair comparison—because this is a AAA single-player title and not an indie MMO—but take a look at this screenshot from Deus Ex: Human Revolution. It conveys such a strong mood, and gives so much information about the world and its current events. The game world doesn't need to be enormous because it is detailed. In fact, if you were to take that same amount of information and detail but just spread it out over a larger space within the game, it would have less of an impact. Same goes for taking the same number of NPCs and same number of missions and spreading them farther apart over a larger space.

Along the same lines, if you were to take the world from an existing, successful MMO and stretch it out to cover 3000 sq km, you'd just end up with a horrible, empty world. And that's if we're generous enough to assume that you have as much detail and content as a successful MMO, which is insanely optimistic.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 9953

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

5/21/12 1:10:05 PM#20


Originally posted by Cephus404
After reading that, I can honestly say that pretty much nothing in there is anything that I'd have any interest in whatsoever.

Post-apoc world?  No.

PVP?  No.

 




Apoplectic - Overcome with anger; extremely indignant.
Post-Apoplectic - The state of being after becoming apoplectic.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

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