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News & Features Discussion  » Torchlight 2: The Disgruntled Pony: DarkPony Tackles Torchlight 2!

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57 posts found
  Hayasa

Novice Member

Joined: 1/29/05
Posts: 29

5/19/12 11:18:25 PM#21

My last post sounded kind of hater, but I assure you I'm not. I just don't like the new D3, I hope those who like it enjoy it as I enjoyed the others diablo. 

Right now Torchlight 2 offers me all I need in a hack'n'slash and I find it a natural evolved form of the genre. 

PS: I was unable to add lines while editing my previous post, sorry for double posting.

 

  Vaultar

Novice Member

Joined: 4/25/08
Posts: 342

5/20/12 12:48:11 AM#22

Played TL2 beta and loved it :). Definately one of those rare games I will be playing along with Batman: Arkham City until GW2 comes out.

Looking forward to EQL and EQN.

  darkedone02

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/17/06
Posts: 547

5/20/12 12:55:20 AM#23

I am playing in the beta and I got to say that I kinda like Diablo 3 better due to the looting (i love how everything i see is mine), the storyline (It's more darker, more interesting, Torchlight 2 is about a renegade on the loose, but Diablo is about destroying major devils of evil bringing destruction of the world and AAA quality cinematics. Torchlight 2 does support modding (although I wish it was as huge as Elder Scrolls community), and the not always on DRM (yes, i dislike that due to how I can no longer use a trainer or character editor to fiddle in single-player and how the server goes down, you cant play even on single-player).

  romanator0

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/10
Posts: 2425

5/20/12 1:03:50 AM#24
Originally posted by darkedone02

I am playing in the beta and I got to say that I kinda like Diablo 3 better due to the looting (i love how everything i see is mine), the storyline (It's more darker, more interesting, Torchlight 2 is about a renegade on the loose, but Diablo is about destroying major devils of evil bringing destruction of the world and AAA quality cinematics. Torchlight 2 does support modding (although I wish it was as huge as Elder Scrolls community), and the not always on DRM (yes, i dislike that due to how I can no longer use a trainer or character editor to fiddle in single-player and how the server goes down, you cant play even on single-player).

Torchlight 2 has that same mechanic.

  jpnz

Elite Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3544

5/20/12 1:17:15 AM#25

Yep, TL2 seems like a quality game that I'll buy and sink dozens of hours into. Just like TL1.

Yes, I also play D3 and yes I'll buy PoE too!

 

What? I am a gamer!

Just because I like Pizza doesn't mean I have to hate Steak!

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  DarkPony

Steed of Tardcore

Joined: 8/29/08
Posts: 5637

Confident, cocky, lazy, dead.

5/20/12 1:45:10 AM#26
Originally posted by jpnz

Yep, TL2 seems like a quality game that I'll buy and sink dozens of hours into. Just like TL1.

Yes, I also play D3 and yes I'll buy PoE too!

 

What? I am a gamer!

Just because I like Pizza doesn't mean I have to hate Steak!

Yup, this is pretty much my own sentiment.

But seeing how TL2 and PoE are both worthy additions to the genre and probably have about as much strong and weak points as D3 (albeit different ones) yet with only a sliver of its development resources, I think both Runic and Grinding Gear Games have done an amazing thing and fully earned our support.

Like I ended the blog with: we are spoiled rotten this year in the ARPG genre. It's a first world problem we can only wish we had for, say, sandbox mmorpgs.

Probably I'll end up playing all of them anyway :)

 

  Yuui

Novice Member

Joined: 10/21/07
Posts: 722

5/20/12 5:41:49 AM#27
Originally posted by Asamof

I've been playing the TL2 beta, and I'm enjoying a lot of things about it

the class mechanics are interesting and the exploration is fun

honestly though, the game already feels archaic compared to D3

the game will definitely fill that niche of people who want the oldschool/outdated style of dungeon crawling, but D3 is the natural evolution of the genre

So sticking to what made the genre GREAT is bad nowadays?

 

Well I guess soon failures like ME3 or DAII will be also be known as "epitome" of "rpg" genre. 

 

TLII does some innovations but overall its a logical progression of diablo-like game. Polished as hell. Everything that Diablo3 SHOULD have been. 

 

D3 tried to "innovate" it failed. Its a cheap cash grap for blizzard through RMT auction house and entire game is built around it. It does not play as ARPG, it has no stats nor skills(thus very streamlined and castrated customization) and the whole game is pretty much a linnear-progression style just like into what WoW has degraded into through years. 

 

D3 is NOT arpg. Its the only game(alongside Borderlands) that deserves to be called single player mmo. Its just that if borderlands is normal mmo, D3 is pay to win singleplayer mmo that reminds me of those facebook "games" that milk you of your money for nothing. 

 

# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON

  Milander

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/27/04
Posts: 129

5/20/12 5:44:22 AM#28

I got myself a TL2 beta key....used it on my account and it's all good...Then when trying to make a account on the website to log in, it says that I cant create an account. No reasons just that I am unable to do so. Email got back a form reply basically stating "If it's about beta we wont reply to your email" so well, the company wont be getting my money....And I was looking forward to this game too.

 

  jpnz

Elite Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3544

5/20/12 6:26:34 AM#29
Originally posted by Yuui
 

So sticking to what made the genre GREAT is bad nowadays?

 

Well I guess soon failures like ME3 or DAII will be also be known as "epitome" of "rpg" genre. 

 

TLII does some innovations but overall its a logical progression of diablo-like game. Polished as hell. Everything that Diablo3 SHOULD have been. 

 

D3 tried to "innovate" it failed. Its a cheap cash grap for blizzard through RMT auction house and entire game is built around it. It does not play as ARPG, it has no stats nor skills(thus very streamlined and castrated customization) and the whole game is pretty much a linnear-progression style just like into what WoW has degraded into through years. 

 

D3 is NOT arpg. Its the only game(alongside Borderlands) that deserves to be called single player mmo. Its just that if borderlands is normal mmo, D3 is pay to win singleplayer mmo that reminds me of those facebook "games" that milk you of your money for nothing. 

 

If 'innovate failure' means people have to reroll their char cause they put one point into a stat they shouldn't have, then yes, we should fail more.

I don't think people understand how unforgiving D2 was.

Remember 'saving a skill point'?

D2 was a good game back in the day but some of its game mechanics were really bad to new players.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  Yuui

Novice Member

Joined: 10/21/07
Posts: 722

5/20/12 6:48:00 AM#30
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Yuui
 

So sticking to what made the genre GREAT is bad nowadays?

 

Well I guess soon failures like ME3 or DAII will be also be known as "epitome" of "rpg" genre. 

 

TLII does some innovations but overall its a logical progression of diablo-like game. Polished as hell. Everything that Diablo3 SHOULD have been. 

 

D3 tried to "innovate" it failed. Its a cheap cash grap for blizzard through RMT auction house and entire game is built around it. It does not play as ARPG, it has no stats nor skills(thus very streamlined and castrated customization) and the whole game is pretty much a linnear-progression style just like into what WoW has degraded into through years. 

 

D3 is NOT arpg. Its the only game(alongside Borderlands) that deserves to be called single player mmo. Its just that if borderlands is normal mmo, D3 is pay to win singleplayer mmo that reminds me of those facebook "games" that milk you of your money for nothing. 

 

If 'innovate failure' means people have to reroll their char cause they put one point into a stat they shouldn't have, then yes, we should fail more.

I don't think people understand how unforgiving D2 was.

Remember 'saving a skill point'?

D2 was a good game back in the day but some of its game mechanics were really bad to new players.

ANd how is that BAD?

I LOVE calculating and deciding on into what stat I should invest or on how should I build my character. 

Its like building a weapon. Its damn satisfying seeing all those numbers you decided upon being put into action.  Thats what makes arpgs enjoyable. Building your character. And if you were careless enough to NOT think when creating and advancing your character that is your problem, not game's. Why should game be casualized just to satysfy a few people who were too lazy or too casual to calculate stat advantages before investing points?

# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON

  Thane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 1866

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

5/20/12 6:55:01 AM#31

obviously the poster above me never played d2 :)

 

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  DarkPony

Steed of Tardcore

Joined: 8/29/08
Posts: 5637

Confident, cocky, lazy, dead.

5/20/12 7:02:00 AM#32
Originally posted by Thane

obviously the poster above me never played d2 :)

 

Not sure about that.

I really like that unforgiving aspect as well. It adds weight to the choices you need to make and you'll be making them more consciously. It also adds to the replayability; musing over the perfect character to make next. And if you really made terrible mistakes, it doesn't take so long to get a new char up in higher difficulty settings like in most mmorpgs anyway :)

  jpnz

Elite Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3544

5/20/12 7:27:24 AM#33
Originally posted by Yuui
Originally posted by jpnz

 

If 'innovate failure' means people have to reroll their char cause they put one point into a stat they shouldn't have, then yes, we should fail more.

I don't think people understand how unforgiving D2 was.

Remember 'saving a skill point'?

D2 was a good game back in the day but some of its game mechanics were really bad to new players.

ANd how is that BAD?

I LOVE calculating and deciding on into what stat I should invest or on how should I build my character. 

Its like building a weapon. Its damn satisfying seeing all those numbers you decided upon being put into action.  Thats what makes arpgs enjoyable. Building your character. And if you were careless enough to NOT think when creating and advancing your character that is your problem, not game's. Why should game be casualized just to satysfy a few people who were too lazy or too casual to calculate stat advantages before investing points?

Because 'casuals' outnumber the 'hardcore'?

Giving players the ability to customize is good but is it really customize when most will either fail utterly and quit (Diablo2) or just go to 'Elitejerks.com' and copy paste?

 

You know what's funny?

Diablo3 is more customizable without screwing over the player like they did in Diablo2.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  Yuui

Novice Member

Joined: 10/21/07
Posts: 722

5/20/12 8:01:01 AM#34
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Yuui
Originally posted by jpnz

 

If 'innovate failure' means people have to reroll their char cause they put one point into a stat they shouldn't have, then yes, we should fail more.

I don't think people understand how unforgiving D2 was.

Remember 'saving a skill point'?

D2 was a good game back in the day but some of its game mechanics were really bad to new players.

ANd how is that BAD?

I LOVE calculating and deciding on into what stat I should invest or on how should I build my character. 

Its like building a weapon. Its damn satisfying seeing all those numbers you decided upon being put into action.  Thats what makes arpgs enjoyable. Building your character. And if you were careless enough to NOT think when creating and advancing your character that is your problem, not game's. Why should game be casualized just to satysfy a few people who were too lazy or too casual to calculate stat advantages before investing points?

Because 'casuals' outnumber the 'hardcore'?

Giving players the ability to customize is good but is it really customize when most will either fail utterly and quit (Diablo2) or just go to 'Elitejerks.com' and copy paste?

 

You know what's funny?

Diablo3 is more customizable without screwing over the player like they did in Diablo2.

 

Diablo fanbase certainly is big enough without the need to casualize it for more mainstream audience. Most of such "casualizations " fail. Dragon Age II failed. Elder Scrolls Oblivion failed. ME3 Failed. 

They had a fanbase. Thanks to the streamlining and focusing everything(including invasive and horrible online DRM) on pay2win RMT auction house, A LOT of that fanbase will go for Torchlight II and Path of Exile instead. Bu tthen again the horrible issues of game mechanics have already been highlighted in that TotalBiscuit's video. 

I see nothing wrong with customisation that requires person to think on what the hell he/she/it is doing.  Half the fun of rpg games are behind the statistics and numbers behind the gameplay. If I wanted to go see a movie or play an action brawler, I would do so. I play arpg games for loot and complex numbers and I play rpg games for character roleplay and complex numbers. 

 

Oh yes, customization. How glorious, I can now decide into which of automatically unlocking skills will I add that +4% area dmg rune that I will unlock at certain level...how complex. AN then I will equip my class-restricted generic loot that shoehorns me EVEN MORE into what Blizz wants my character to be, while every stat and everything is automatically increased to even more restrict me into playing the game the way they want me to play it. Rune system and every other bit of "customisation" in Diablocraft 3 is pretty much linnear progression veiled in lies. 

 

# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON

  fivoroth

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/10/06
Posts: 2675

5/20/12 8:15:29 AM#35
Originally posted by Yizle
Originally posted by Asamof

I've been playing the TL2 beta, and I'm enjoying a lot of things about it

the class mechanics are interesting and the exploration is fun

honestly though, the game already feels archaic compared to D3

the game will definitely fill that niche of people who want the oldschool/outdated style of dungeon crawling, but D3 is the natural evolution of the genre

I lol'd so hard at this fanboy BS. Then I started feeling sorry for you and anyone else who belived this load.

D3 is crap. Complete crap. If you like old graphics D3 is your game. If you like no skill required and basically autoleveling D3 is for you.

Post your hell or inferno character and then we can talk. I am sure you have 0 experience of Diablo 3.

@OP, I really liked the review. I've already bought the game on steam because 15 pounds is nothing.

Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  Delerious1

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/08/11
Posts: 72

5/20/12 8:31:26 AM#36

You guys that talk about D3 lacking customization or challenge clearly know jack shit about the game.

If you leveled a character past the tutorial section of the open beta weekend by buying the game you would know this.

D3 is fantastic.  The art direction is great, the cinematic cut scenes are fantastic, the customization is awesome, the loot grind is fun. 

Most of you guys are really talking out of your ass about D3 due to hatred of blizzard/activision(the bad guys ewww), your opinion that smaller companies making games are better and more deserving of your money and last, but certainly not least your ignorant as hell comments on the game.

The amount of ignorant statements in this thread literally boggles my mind.

I have nothing against Torchlight 2 and hope the game does well, but it get's old constantly reading bullshit comments about D3 on this forum that aren't merely opinion, but completely inaccurate or false.

 

  arescage

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 20

5/20/12 8:34:37 AM#37

I don't see how D3 moved anything in the genre forward. It took out offline single player, mods, and stats. If a game is to move things forward then it should have something that innovates. FATE added pets that we now see in T2. T2 has that superbar that adds up and applifies certain abilities for each class along with fishing and now pet specific equipment.

 

Even Titan Quest added the character class merging and still some of the best graphics this genre has to this date. PoE has it's own unique skill system using socketted items in it's own original way. I fail to see what D3 has added more than it has discarded from the genre. The only new thing I've seen is the rune system for skills. That's pretty cool, but it would be better if it wasn't the only thing that could be customized. Two people with a Monk have the exact same character minus gear and where they chose to put their skill runes. This concept is primitive compared to every other ARPG out there including D1 and D2.

 

Sorry, but even though D3 is a well made game, it sure isn't moving the genre forward. It's just capitalizing on the name of it's own franchise. D3 is a huge step backwards.

  Jherak

Novice Member

Joined: 2/02/04
Posts: 10

Practice is a bloodless battle, Battle is a bloody practice.

5/20/12 8:54:24 AM#38

Titan Quest was one of my favourite ARPGs ever.  I'm loving torchlight 2 and I think Diablo 3 is not the game it could or should have been.  It has awesome lore, but really the gameplay feels lacking to me.  Its just another step in the casualization of the gaming industry that the Wii started.  All of the technical bugs that it launched with are inexcusable for a company that 1 owns the most successful mmo of all time, and 2 had a 7+ year development cycle.  The DRM always online is obviously terrible, if your internet hiccups you can get booted and loose all sorts of progress.

 

All that aside, for the people thinking getting rid of stat points was a good idea because of all the "useless" buils in Diablo 2 or the crippling mistakes you could make.  Blizzard could have easily left that in and made it so you could reset your skills for a cost as many times as you wanted.  This would benefit both casual and hardcore.   Or how about letting you choose to auto level or not when you started the game?  This option could be turned off or on whenever you wanted and if it was on it would be just like the current diablo 3.

 

They had so many options and really all they did with D3 was cater to the casual crowd, and alienate the hardcore gamers who made them what they are.  This is what most big publishers are doing these days, butchering franchises for short term profit.

  fivoroth

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/10/06
Posts: 2675

5/20/12 9:55:52 AM#39
Originally posted by arescage

I don't see how D3 moved anything in the genre forward. It took out offline single player, mods, and stats. If a game is to move things forward then it should have something that innovates. FATE added pets that we now see in T2. T2 has that superbar that adds up and applifies certain abilities for each class along with fishing and now pet specific equipment.

 

Even Titan Quest added the character class merging and still some of the best graphics this genre has to this date. PoE has it's own unique skill system using socketted items in it's own original way. I fail to see what D3 has added more than it has discarded from the genre. The only new thing I've seen is the rune system for skills. That's pretty cool, but it would be better if it wasn't the only thing that could be customized. Two people with a Monk have the exact same character minus gear and where they chose to put their skill runes. This concept is primitive compared to every other ARPG out there including D1 and D2.

 

Sorry, but even though D3 is a well made game, it sure isn't moving the genre forward. It's just capitalizing on the name of it's own franchise. D3 is a huge step backwards.

Diablo 3 has a great new crafting system. Diablo 3 has a new skill system which is amazing. Diablo 3 has random events, random dungeons in it. Diablo 3 has an all max level difficulty. They introduced the banner system. They have a very extensive achievement system which I don't think any other action RPG did before it.

I fail to see how Torchlight 1 did anything new for the genre. 

Also Diablo 3 doesn't have to do anything new to be successful because Diablo 2 was damn near perfect. Blizzard CREATED this genre. Diablo 3 got pretty much everything right. It is a true Diablo 2 sequel. The same way SC2 was an amazing sequal to SC1. THose games were very similar too. I've played all the Diablo clones which came after Diablo 2 and none of them came even close to the awesomeness of Diablo. They just were not fun to play. Diablo 3 is fun to play.

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  Yuui

Novice Member

Joined: 10/21/07
Posts: 722

5/20/12 10:16:08 AM#40
Originally posted by fivoroth

Diablo 3 has a great new crafting system. Diablo 3 has a new skill system which is amazing. Diablo 3 has random events, random dungeons in it. Diablo 3 has an all max level difficulty. They introduced the banner system. They have a very extensive achievement system which I don't think any other action RPG did before it.

I fail to see how Torchlight 1 did anything new for the genre. 

Also Diablo 3 doesn't have to do anything new to be successful because Diablo 2 was damn near perfect. Blizzard CREATED this genre. Diablo 3 got pretty much everything right. It is a true Diablo 2 sequel. The same way SC2 was an amazing sequal to SC1. THose games were very similar too. I've played all the Diablo clones which came after Diablo 2 and none of them came even close to the awesomeness of Diablo. They just were not fun to play. Diablo 3 is fun to play.

 

Crafting has absolutely zero importance in ARPG games where the main idea is FINDING loot not creating it. If it was MMO, well great for crafting. 99% of arpg fanbase could not care less about crafting.

"New skill system"? Pretty much a copy of how they destroyed World oF Warcraft skill system.

random dungeons? Tl1 had it TL2 has it, hell, even original diablo games had it.

random events? Tl2 has it and half the genre has it too.

Difficulty? considering starter difficulties are a cakewalk and TL2 already has quite a challenging difficulty AND ability to mod it into more difficult, I don't see how that changes anything. 

Achievements? casualization yet again. No one seriously cares about "achievements". Next thing you know you will add a "facebook integration" as a pro for diablo3. 

 

Also, correction: 

ActivisionBlizzard DID NOT create the genre. Blizzard North(Condor Entertainment) did. And majority of folks responsible for that are guess where? Runic Games. 

Other stuff in your post...it seems you are more than likely trying to convince YOURSELF that Diablo 3 was "great". 

Diablo3 is heavily streamlined, heavily casualized "rpg" game with pay2win RMT auction house and invasive DRM. Not to mention the complaints of horrible pacing, linnear mmo-like progression, over-simplification and seriously short game length.

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