Today i logged into my haven and hearth accounts only to find that my place is ransacked.  so in process of tryin to get back to my old place i did a rather noob thing and trusted a stranger in the H&H forums.  well my chars are dead, and after spending months with them.  just dont have the gut to start over.

so here are some of the aspects i loved bout H&H

you start out with nothing, but have the ability with time and effort and the right rescources to get everything.  I like not having the game just hand me stuff.  I like to go out and get it.  easy for the simple things, and harder to get for the not so easy things.

the game uses quality formulas out the Wazooo.  if i'm a lvl 10 farmer and i harvest Quality 100 crops, i get like Quality 33 crops/seeds in my inventory.  if i'm a lvl 150 farmer and i harvest Quality 100 seed, chances are i'll get Q105 crops/seeds in my inventory.

I love games that ther are consequences for your actions.  the current version of H&H does not have that(compared to like it used to), hopefully when they get around to working on it, that'll change.

H&H is a crafter driven game.  you want leather?  you gotta kill an animal, skin it.  put the hide on a drying rack, then take the dried hide to a tanning tub and fill the tub with water and bark and then wait like 2-3 hours(and all the quality of the ingredants affect the quality of the leather)  by the way all those things i mentioned there:tanning tub, drying rack etc. .. you have to make them too.

now here are some of the aspects of H&H's current version that i rather hate

First off, the game has certain "bottlenecks" that hinder growth.  I dont expect every avenue to get you to the top, but like more than 2.  for H&H that's clay and metal.  clay will be your foundation to all your tools that increase the Quality of other tools and rescources.  while metal, well without metal, your never gonna achieve dang near anything.

Secondly, the community can't be a bunch of exploit/bug abusing psychopaths.  The game forums has basically devolved into nazi propoganda as well as other offencive stuff.  Hopefully it'll get better when the Devs come back, but so many good players have left and cesspool leeches hve filled the gaps, so to speak

Goodluck if you know any games out there that can fit this bill. 

Here are some games you need not bother to mention.

Wurm - unless the dev has Totally revamped the lvlin way, last time i played it, it took forever and then some to raise your skills.

LOTRO - i want a crafter driven game, not a game where crafting is in there but not the main thought, so to speak

WOW - just no!

EQ2/Vanguard - kinda the same bill as LOTRO  though vanguards crafting is a pioneer in itself, but no thankyou

DarkFall - didn't like the fact everybody and thier brother macroed in the player villages, as well as it's kinda like a FPS

UnRealWorld - I own it, it's a singer player game, and it's kinda ok a lot of things i could do in there just didnt make it feel right, but hell it's still a good game.

Haven and Hearth - lol, just wanted to put that in there for da hell of it :)

Deep crafting and a crafter based economy?  I've never heard anything as advanced as what you describe.

Wurm has what's called the Epic servers now, 3x the speed of skill gains, but you have to put up with PvP drama.

~A thing to keep in mind is that 50 in any skill is "good enough". You don't need 90ql anything, ever... but it does help with mining speeds, I guess. It's quite easy to hit 50 in anything, given a month or so at it... it's not a game for min/maxers, for damned sure. Besides, while people *will* pay for incredible tools and weapons, they also pay for labor. Diggers and miners make as much, if not more, than crafters. You can pay for oyur sub and deed upkeep solely by working - if you are willing to travel, and have any sort of social aptitude.

Haven't played it really, but as far as I know 'Fallen Earth' has a deep and complex crafting system where everything is made by players... F2P btw

     Ryzom is the most comprehensive crafting/harvesting game I know of.

If your into sandbox and large open world universes I would check out EvE onlines crafting.  The industrial and crafting part of the game is so massive considering their economy functions like a real world. 

Fallen Earth is a nice game(or it was before the F2P change). After the intial tutorial you could choose to go to the crafting area or the combat/quest area. Crafting was nice also. You had specific buildings to craft in that would reduce crafting time. You could queue items to be crafted while off line. Also like someone else already said most items you got as quest rewards(early on at least) could also be made. Its worth a try.

I was going to say Vanguard because you can level up your crafting completely separate from your adventuring if you wanted.  But since you eliminated that one, I'll parrot what others have said and suggest Fallen Earth.  It's a surprisingly solid all-around game, and the crafting is extremely deep.  Nearly everything that anyone uses in the game is crafted.  

yep, i have played fallen earth, but the time sink on crafting totally threw it out.

now wurm has epic servers, aye?  now that sounds interesting

Salem Online Beta (still in production)

Minecraft (join one of the numerous stellar communities, there are persistent servers with well over 400 people and they police there server so the community maintains appropriate)

Eve Online (My main was actually an industry specialist, I made a lot of isk crafting, setting up production facilities, etc)

Originally posted by joojoo1975

now wurm has epic servers, aye?  now that sounds interesting

Honestly, it's not. You have to work quickly to get your deed in 'defensable' condition, and usualy end up paying more for anti-theft guards. The drama isn't worth it either, it's like Mortal Online up in that bitch.

I recently came back to the game and am scouting out a new spot in the PvE servers.

EvE Online.

The economy, logistics, and production (crafting) in that game are so complex they resemeble real life markets and industry.  Give the free trial a whirl and see if ya care for it.

Originally posted by Theocritus

     Ryzom is the most comprehensive crafting/harvesting game I know of.

I was going to say Saga of Ryzom but it appears I was beaten to the punch.  If you are a true crafting fan this game should be installed on your computer along with minecraft and/or Second Life of course.  While other MMO's offer various (and in some cases intricate) ways to approach crafting ultimately your end results are still limited to the prefined outcome set by the developer.  Obviously Ryzom also has it's limitations but the ability to literally create the stats/appearance/action of whatever you craft is not one of them and is something rarely seen in other "Crafter friendly MMO's".  This extends to abilites/magic as well.  The game is old now and I can't speak for it's population but if your into crafting this is a SOLID choice.

eve has the best economy (100% player driven). Its easy to start off with, but if you wanna do more advanced stuff, you actually need people to play with and collaborate with.

Originally posted by Khaeros

Go to Vanguard.

 

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on a lighter note.  went back and tried out wurm.  already playing in a village and I'll prolly go premium tomorrow.  from what i could tell the lessened the times to complete stuff in there as well as raised the increments on how quickly you can raise your skills.

thankyou for the replies folks.