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Diablo 3

Diablo 3 

General Discussion  » Debunking and defending D3 here (also POE,T2 vs Diablo3)

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48 posts found
  Superman0X

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/28/06
Posts: 956

5/19/12 9:37:45 AM#21

I, too have played all three games. I believe that they each do something better, and that players would do best to choose based on what is more valuable to them. Here are the reasons why I think you should play each:

 

Diablo 3: Graphics, Animation and Storyline.

Artstyle aside, this game has the prettiest graphic engine. It is definately 'shiny' and if you watch the animations, and dynamic events, it sure looks good. The single strongest feature for this game is the Storyline. Not the actual story... but how it is presented. The combination of cut scenes, interactive quests, and audio clips really do a great job.

 

Path of Exile: Gameplay, Price

Path of Exile has the best gameplay, hands down. It is Diablo II on steriods. They have taken the old style of gameplay, and built on it in a great way. There is a reasonable challenge to the game... and it is extremely satisfying. The game is also free. This means that even if you spent $60 on D3, there is no reason you cant check this out later, and see what you were missing.

 

Torchlight 2: Offline Play, Mods

Torchlight 2 falls between the first two. It is very pretty, and can be compared to D3 on graphics. I do believe its engine just isnt as good as D3... but it is reasonably close. It has a storyline, and it rolls it out reasonably well (but without all the bells and whistles that D3 has). It also has solid gameplay. Not as good as PoE, but much more tangible than D3. On top of all of this, it is the only one to offer offline gameplay, and the ability to modify your game. This is HUGE for some people. Lastly, it only costs $20.

 

I think all three games are great. You really cant go wrong with any of them. However, many people may find that one of them is a GREAT game (for them) and the other two are just good.

 

 

  Chingo

Novice Member

Joined: 4/27/12
Posts: 134

5/19/12 9:48:58 AM#22
Always online for single player + DRM? I don't have to even know about the gameplay to be able to make up _my_ mind. (and just to clear up something pre-emptively: I am not anti-DRM because I want to deal with piratism or some philosophical drivel but because of having been involved with DRM for quite some time I know that the only real effect of DRM is a worse user experience)
  Lobotomist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 4770

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

 
OP  5/19/12 9:49:06 AM#23
Originally posted by Superman0X

I, too have played all three games. I believe that they each do something better, and that players would do best to choose based on what is more valuable to them. Here are the reasons why I think you should play each:

 

Diablo 3: Graphics, Animation and Storyline.

Artstyle aside, this game has the prettiest graphic engine. It is definately 'shiny' and if you watch the animations, and dynamic events, it sure looks good. The single strongest feature for this game is the Storyline. Not the actual story... but how it is presented. The combination of cut scenes, interactive quests, and audio clips really do a great job.

 

Path of Exile: Gameplay, Price

Path of Exile has the best gameplay, hands down. It is Diablo II on steriods. They have taken the old style of gameplay, and built on it in a great way. There is a reasonable challenge to the game... and it is extremely satisfying. The game is also free. This means that even if you spent $60 on D3, there is no reason you cant check this out later, and see what you were missing.

 

Torchlight 2: Offline Play, Mods

Torchlight 2 falls between the first two. It is very pretty, and can be compared to D3 on graphics. I do believe its engine just isnt as good as D3... but it is reasonably close. It has a storyline, and it rolls it out reasonably well (but without all the bells and whistles that D3 has). It also has solid gameplay. Not as good as PoE, but much more tangible than D3. On top of all of this, it is the only one to offer offline gameplay, and the ability to modify your game. This is HUGE for some people. Lastly, it only costs $20.

 

I think all three games are great. You really cant go wrong with any of them. However, many people may find that one of them is a GREAT game (for them) and the other two are just good.

 

 


I very much agree

All 3 are great games. With exception that POE gameplay is not best IMHO.

It has some amazing inovations and most complex system. But gameplay wise. Both D3 and T2 take the cake

  HorrorScope

Novice Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 612

5/19/12 9:55:44 AM#24

One's $60, another $20 and finally one is $0-$20 (mt's).

One's by a huge company, another a semi-pedigreed team and finally one by a relative unknown.

Two require online all the time, one offers a standard SP mode.

Movement, which has the best setup for moving your avatar?

The genre is stupid simple, does any offer a real challenge?

Why did we have years of none of these and then a glutton of them?

Why haven't they evlolved into more of a 3rd person perspective?

This genre is so simplistic that to me they are all pretty much the same. One that offers a challenge I'd call the best. So in your opinion which is the hardest?

 

 

  AdamTM

Novice Member

Joined: 5/05/05
Posts: 1395

I'M PUNCHING YOUR SALAD!!!!

5/19/12 10:13:49 AM#25
Originally posted by Lobotomist
Originally posted by AdamTM
Originally posted by Lobotomist
Originally posted by Ailingforale

Given the screenshots posted, wouldn't it be more of a art style choice rather than a graphic one?  I know that D3 didn't go for a photo-realistic bit but they were dancing on the precipise.  Granted not as close as Path of Exile.  

However, my question is:

Which game has the flashier moves?  You know, that extra explosion in the fire ball or w/e?  My eye tend to be more entertained by moving objects at times lol.

Great question, and perfectly illustrating how insane was D3 budget.

They wrote about it lately. Take for example Wizard class - it has 25 available skills. And each of these skills can be modified with 5 different runes.

They decided that every skill+rune combination should have its own special animation.

This brough them to 120 unique skill animations per class!

 

As for combat feeling. Blizzard developed their inhous physic system. Almost every part of scenery. Dungeon or outside can be smashed, often falling and killing monsters around it.

Depending on how powerful you are - monsters are falling,knocked,decapitated, or exploding in sprays of blood.

If you carry elemental weapon, monsters burn are electrified etc... often you can see decapitated body parts still flaming on the map.

Also monsters react to the hits, parry or are moved by its force.

 

Torchlight2

Lets just say. Run D3 , play it a bit. Than run T2 and you will think something is wrong with T2. The difference is so drastic.

T2 also has exploding monsters and physics. But there is just so much team of 20 people can do. And its certanly not 120 unique skill animations per class ;)

How about some videos?

Gladly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEM0kHXgKIg

And bear in mind that it ranks up with your power. Here its from start of the game, but the effects you get on buffed up character with elemental weapons gets pretty insane.

I meant more of a suite of comparison vids.

Since you are in T2 and POE beta you could make comparison vids in comparable situations from all the games.

Like make lvl 1-3 D3, POE, T2 vids, just capture them, no voiceover or anything. should be a quicky.

 

I'm not in T2 or POE beta so i cant compare them to D3 at all, hence the video is useless to me, i know how D3 looks and plays.

  drakes821

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/03/09
Posts: 527

5/19/12 10:18:29 AM#26

To hit on the game length topic I'd like to point out that it took me 19 hours and 7 minutes to beat the game on normal. I explored every map and all dungeons but still played pretty fast and kept moving.

I also only died about 6 or so times. I'd say for the average person who doesn't just rush through the game it will take them 15-20 hours on normal solo.

  HorrorScope

Novice Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 612

5/19/12 10:52:35 AM#27

T2's character moves on the screen the fastest. I prefer that in this genre.

  RJCox

Novice Member

Joined: 9/28/03
Posts: 2695

"It''s OK... I''m a leaf on the wind! Watch how I soar!"

5/19/12 2:20:52 PM#28
Originally posted by drakes821

To hit on the game length topic I'd like to point out that it took me 19 hours and 7 minutes to beat the game on normal. I explored every map and all dungeons but still played pretty fast and kept moving.

I also only died about 6 or so times. I'd say for the average person who doesn't just rush through the game it will take them 15-20 hours on normal solo.

This is about on par with my own experience, as mentioned above. I can imagine people blazing through it in 10-12 hours on normal if they're just trying to get through it and don't care about the story or side/bonus dungeons/encounters...

And still waiting for the OP go back and discuss being forced to play on Normal to unlock additional content, etc... ;)

Richard J. Cox
"There were much of the beautiful, much of the wanton, much of the bizarre, something of the terrible, and not a little of that which might have excited disgust."

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/19/12 2:23:50 PM#29
Don't forget there's grim dawn also
  NeoZcar2

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/12
Posts: 137

5/19/12 2:48:28 PM#30

So I am mostly a MMORPG fan. I played EQ for 11 years and WoW for 3, and basically every other AAA MMORPG that has been released... Currently I own Tera and GW2. But I have been playing Diablo 3 and PoE when I need a break form Tera.

 

Gameplay I much prefer PoE. I find the world to me much more immersive and impressive. It definitly has that darker grittier feel to it, and none of the mobbs give me that cartooney feeling like DIablo3 and TL2 do. PoE mobbs and zones really make you feel like you are constantly in danger of being ripped apart by some evil demonic being straight from the pits of hell.

 

Graphics I would say Diablo3 gets the gold here but they did not do a very good job with making the graphic power and the art design combine into a very aesthetically pleasing game... I will take TL2 or PoE over Diablo3 for this reason alone... Nothing in the world should feel like it doesn't belong. 

 

Diablo3 definitely has the best storyline by far. The other games aren't even competitive.

Classes is really hard to choose for me. I Prefer the PoE Templar overall, but I love DIablo3's Wizard and Monk. I prefer the new PoE class Shadow over the Diablo3 Demon-Hunter. Diablo3 Barbarian is better then PoE Marauder.

 

Skill systems I have to give it to PoE over any other Hack and Slash ever made. I love the skill gem system combined with the massive customizable passive skill tree. Literally millions of possibilities.

 

I guess overall none of them are bad games but I for sure feel that Diablo3 should have been a much better game then what we got.  Blizzard fell short of Diablo 3's true potential. I would however love to see a full MMORPG designed around the world and storylines of the Diablo universe.

There is absolutely nothing I can complain about with PoE because I feel it is one of the best completely free games ever. Definitely the best bang for your buck LOL.

  FrodoFragins

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2758

5/20/12 12:15:19 AM#31

The reason Blizzard is so successful is because they look at what game before in a genre and pick the good stuff while getting rid of the crap.  D3 has done a pretty good job of getting rid of things from D2 like:

 

1) Hackalicious bnet 1.0 - Worst thing about D2

2) No respecs - Second worst thing about D2.  D2 caused your character to often be gimped early on as you were waiting for say Blessed Hammer.  D3 allows you to swap between different builds each player sees as optimal depending on the situation and party makeup.  Once you are capped and have picked you spec, you're stuck with it.

3) Potion spamming

4) TP and ID scrolls

5) Horrible stat system that often time left points unused in case an item dropped with stat requirements.  Also, if you got a better item with lower requirements, guess what you can't get them back.  Guess you need to reroll if you want a perfect build.

6) First one to grab loot wins!

 

Any modern ARPG that uses those features is bass ackwards and stuck in the past.  They haven't learned and are destined to just be a footnote to the genre going forward.  POE is guilty of being stuck in the past.  I haven't seen enough of TL2 to make a decision, but they are certainly stuck in the past in certain areas, most importantly not having dedicated servers to store multiplayer characters.

  Lobotomist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 4770

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

 
OP  5/20/12 1:41:28 AM#32
Originally posted by RJCox
Originally posted by drakes821

To hit on the game length topic I'd like to point out that it took me 19 hours and 7 minutes to beat the game on normal. I explored every map and all dungeons but still played pretty fast and kept moving.

I also only died about 6 or so times. I'd say for the average person who doesn't just rush through the game it will take them 15-20 hours on normal solo.

This is about on par with my own experience, as mentioned above. I can imagine people blazing through it in 10-12 hours on normal if they're just trying to get through it and don't care about the story or side/bonus dungeons/encounters...

And still waiting for the OP go back and discuss being forced to play on Normal to unlock additional content, etc... ;)

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5004932#5004932

By the way...i know its just workaround. But you can just join friend on higher difficulty and it becomes unlocked for you :S

 

  kishe

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/04
Posts: 1949

firefighter lvl90

5/20/12 1:57:28 AM#33

POE is powergamers paradise, so much mix/maxing to be had that any powergamer with his pocket calc will joygasm over this game.

 

Diablo3 is casuals paradise, the game does pretty much everything to you, leaving you to just enjoy the game and the story.

 

Torchlight 2 is about faithful "unofficial" sequel to diablo2 (which makes sense as it's done by same team who made Diablo 1 and 2) it allows you to make mods which will most likely end up giving you more bang for your buck than the other 2.

 

 

  bartoni33

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/03/06
Posts: 1077

Admit nothing, deny everything and make counter accusations

5/20/12 2:07:24 AM#34
Originally posted by Lobotomist
Originally posted by austriacus
Originally posted by Ailingforale

Given the screenshots posted, wouldn't it be more of a art style choice rather than a graphic one?  I know that D3 didn't go for a photo-realistic bit but they were dancing on the precipise.  Granted not as close as Path of Exile.  

However, my question is:

Which game has the flashier moves?  You know, that extra explosion in the fire ball or w/e?  My eye tend to be more entertained by moving objects at times lol.

Almost every monster in TF2 explodes in some way while most monsters(that i have seen) in Diablo III just fall down.

That should tell you something.

On the other hand though some skills in Diablo are insanely cool like the monk punches and the demon hunter skills.

So i guess both cover those departments in good ways albeit different ones.

This is just what I am talking about - lies and misconceptions.

I am just going to mark it as : False / Debunked

I'm going to comment on this.

Having only played a Barb I can say that "explosions" and gibbing are very rampant. Also Enviromental Destruction is top notch. Shit flying everywhere like a tornado just struck. 

Also if you can, play D3 in 3D (heh almost a palindrome). By far the best 3D game out today. It really amazing what Blizz had done with it. Makes Skyrim look like Minecraft. Play it in 3D and then tell us that monsters just fall down.

EDIT: Played about 12 hours and still on Act 1. Not sure how much farther I have to go. Been searching every nook and cranny. With 3D enabled you actually WANT to see everything. The trees and ledges poping out and dropping down is gorgeous to behold!

  Axxar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 1945

"See how I reward those who fail me!"

5/20/12 2:11:22 AM#35

Yeah, you literally feel like a tornado of destruction when you whirlwind a group of monsters turned into explosions of gibs going everywhere. Your attacks just by themselves convey a feeling and sound of tremendous force being unleashed. I think this is one of the points where Diablo 3 really shines over TL2 and especially PoE where the animations just don't "feel" quite as good.

Currently playing: Divinity: Original Sin, FTL, Hearthstone and Skyrim.
Eagerly anticipating: Camelot Unchained, Elite: Dangerous, Legend of Grimrock 2 and Star Citizen.

  doragon86

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/23/09
Posts: 587

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

5/20/12 2:34:24 AM#36
Originally posted by austriacus
Originally posted by Ailingforale

Given the screenshots posted, wouldn't it be more of a art style choice rather than a graphic one?  I know that D3 didn't go for a photo-realistic bit but they were dancing on the precipise.  Granted not as close as Path of Exile.  

However, my question is:

Which game has the flashier moves?  You know, that extra explosion in the fire ball or w/e?  My eye tend to be more entertained by moving objects at times lol.

Almost every monster in TF2 explodes in some way while most monsters(that i have seen) in Diablo III just fall down.

That should tell you something.

On the other hand though some skills in Diablo are insanely cool like the monk punches and the demon hunter skills.

So i guess both cover those departments in good ways albeit different ones.

 

 

There are plenty of mobs that explode in D3. On top of that there are various mobs that have cool death animations as well. Said mobs aren't as prevalent in early act 1, however, as you progress you start to encounter them more and more. 

 

Anyways here's my assessment as I've played POE and Diablo 3, and beta tested T2.

 

Path of Exile: The game feels pretty much like Diablo 2 with a few features here and there. Non-casual D2 fans will probably enjoy it. The large passive skill tree is interesting, as it reminded me of the sphere grid system in Final Fantasy X.  The game's graphics are a bit better than D2, which is fine considering it is a small company that develops it. The sound is fairly well done. The gameplay can get somewhat boring due to the way skills are tied to gems. Lastly, the story seemed mediocre to me. Overall, the game is ok in my opinion. 

 

Torchlight 2: This game feels also felt like Diablo 2, but rather an improved version of it. A lot of things that had me griping in Diablo 2, Torchlight 2 fixed/improved upon. It's definitely quite an improvement over Torchlight 1. There is a sense of permanence after level 10. The graphics are cartoony, but that's perfectly fine to me. The sound is very well done. The gameplay is also quite fun as well; however I think some of the skills are rather useless. That may change later in the game for all I know. From what little of the story was revealed, it seemed rather interesting. Overall, the game is good in my opinion.

 

Diablo 3: I greatly enjoy playing it. The graphics are quite good. The animations, the most part, are well done, which includes the death animations. The sound is fairly well done as well. The gameplay is very fun. I really enjoy the way they did the skills, because sometimes a particular encounter requires a change of skills and strategy. In a game where skills/stats are permanent, this can be troublesome as you work through higher difficulties. However, with D3 you don't have to worry about it. Anyways, I personally felt the story was mediocre. It could've been much better. Also itemization is rather terrible at the moment, which reminded me of how D2 was when it first came out. For example, there are quite a few magic items that have better DPS than a legendary one, which is rather odd. Anyways, overall I enjoy the game and I think it's good. 

"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,
And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:
And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,
And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"
~Lord George Gordon Byron

  Lobotomist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 4770

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

 
OP  5/20/12 2:41:40 AM#37
Originally posted by doragon86

Excellent review ( and written in blizz blue .. hehe )

Anyway spot on !

  Rednecksith

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/12/09
Posts: 1272

Bite my fiery metal ass!

5/20/12 3:14:44 AM#38

I plan on buying Torchlight 2, and I will throw a few dollars to Grinding Gear Games (PoE), but D3 is the big star, and it shows. Each class feels different and powerful in D3. Wizard disintegrates enemies in large swaths, Barbarian smashes them into nonexistence whilst shrugging off damage, Monk deftly dodges blows while dishing out the hurt, Witch Doctor cripples and damages foes as his minions keep them at bay, and Demon Hunter cripples enemies whilst pelting them with death from afar. Also, there are a LOT of death animations per enemy, depending upon which skill/ability was used to dispatch them.

Torchlight 2's classes just feel pretty generic. Not a single one really 'grabbed' me like D3's did. A sword and board Engineer was the only class I found kind of interesting. The various class skills in beta were incredibly lackluster (even compared to the first game), and didn't really feel potent. Even regular melee attacks with a staff using  Ember Mage caused enemies to 'gib', which really removes the significance of the effect. Rather disappointing overall. Diablo 2 had more variety in enemy deaths than this game. To be fair though, the scripted deaths are very well animated.

PoE doesn't have much in the way of 'gibbing'. Enemies have a set death animation (AKA they just fall over), and I don't even know why they bothered with classes. The passive skill tree is the same regardless of which class you start with, the only major difference being appearance and how the addition of stats effects you. Marauders get more HP from VIT, Witches get more MP from INT, etc. Skills come from gems, which can be equipped on any character providing you meet the minimum stat requirements. This is...a really good system. the only downside is that you need to find/trade for the skill gem you may want, instead of simply 'getting' the skill upon level up. You want your witch to have fireball? Too bad, either find it first, complete a quest which grants it, or trade for it. It can get a bit tedious.

PoE's biggest limitation is the class system. They'd have been better off just having people choose a gender, name, appearance, and possibly a starting skill gem(s). It could have been the Ultima Online of OARPGs, instead it tries to appeal to old school fans of ARPGs by keeping too many old school systems in place. It still has potential, but not as much as it could/should have.

Just my own thoughts. All 3 are quality games worth cheking out, although D3's big budget wins the day IMO.

  Wickedjelly

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

5/20/12 3:22:35 AM#39

The gameplay time being set short for the majority of plyers is bullshit. The game has an ample amount for the genre and a decent story considering.

On the other hand, the people saying this skill system is something unique or involved are so full of shit is unreal. Not even close. Outside of some rune selection and choosing from your small selection of skills it is about as basic as you can get. Good or bad regardless their bs line that is how it plays out.

In essence, this game is a cut above your usual hack and slash but nothing near what some make it out to be. It is a lot of fun but it is neither garbage or the panacea of the genre.

Far as to compare to the other two, I haven't played enough to compare. Frankly though, I think the real winner in all this will be the person that can appreciate all three.

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  Rednecksith

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/12/09
Posts: 1272

Bite my fiery metal ass!

5/20/12 3:26:45 AM#40
Originally posted by Wickedjelly

The gameplay time being set short for the majority of plyers is bullshit. The game has an ample amount for the genre and a decent story considering.

On the other hand, the people saying this skill system is something unique or involved are so full of shit is unreal. Not even close. Outside of some rune selection and choosing from your small selection of skills it is about as basic as you can get. Good or bad regardless their bs line that is how it plays out.

In essence, this game is a cut above your usual hack and slash but nothing near what some make it out to be. It is a lot of fun but it is neither garbage or the panacea of the genre.

Far as to compare to the other two, I haven't played enough to compare. Frankly though, I think the real winner in all this will be the person that can appreciate all three.

Someone hasn't discovered elective mode yet...

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