Originally posted by Rusque

I wonder how many people arguing against online only for D3 use Steam?  I'm honestly a bit confused as to why blizzard specifically is catching flak for this feature when it's pretty common.

Steam has 40 million active users. It requires an internet connection. Why does D3 stand out? I cannot understand the difference.

Steam is one time activation. You ALWAYS have to be on for D3. One time activation I am all for, but not always on.

Ping in the morning ~30-50ms

Ping in the afternoon-evening (more people on obviously) 180-230ms.

There is nothing to defend.

Originally posted by 4bsolute

Ping in the morning ~30-50ms

Ping in the afternoon-evening (more people on obviously) 180-230ms.

 

There is nothing to defend.

 Same here...and I have a pretty good internet connection.  I think it took me like 2 hours to DL the entire D3 client.  And yet, when I play the game, I am frequently rubberbanding in single player.

No excuse.

i can understand why people are upset about it, but to not buy it at all because of this reason? That's just ridiculous. If you don't have internet at all then people need to get with the times. If you can't afford it then you shouldn't even buying the game in the first place. if you have internet chances are you're always going to be on it. God forbid you have to log in to play.

In any case, I feel bad for those who won't buy it because of such a stupid reason. You're really missing out.

Originally posted by Skarecrow7

Originally posted by Aori

Alright i'm going to start off by saying, my only intention of playing Diablo 3 is multiplayer. I find singleplayer games a waste of money for what I personally get out of them.

Now the big argument right now is that Diablo 3 is a singleplayer game with an online requirement. Personally I missed the memo, Diablo 3 is a multiplayer game with a singleplaying option.

People think that the "DRM" is to prevent piracy. It may help, however I do know that it will eventually be emulated. The online only thing is to prevent corruption of a persistant online game.

We have some big things in Diablo 3. First one being the RMAH and while some people don't like this system it is there. Now if Blizzard can prevent this from being flooded with illegal items then I want them to do what they can. If online only is one of the best measures to prevent most of the problems that plagued Diablo 2 then i'm all for it.

The next one which isn't there yet is PvP. Now I personally don't want to play against people who hack, dupe and cheat. Again if online only helps prevent this then I want it to work.

Now when cheats do appear and i'm sure some may rear their heads eventually, I hope blizzard will handle it. More or less I know it isn't a sure fire way to stop cheating, piracy and the like. However if it can keep an epidemic far more contained, i'm happy its there.

I'll stop defending it if Diablo 3 starts showing the corruption that plagues Diablo 2.

Why? Just cause you dont "do" single player, why does that mean anyone who does should have to suffer for it?

It was just my reasons for defending it, also if you would read my post you would see my answer to your why.

Originally posted by Aori

Alright i'm going to start off by saying, my only intention of playing Diablo 3 is multiplayer. I find singleplayer games a waste of money for what I personally get out of them.

Now the big argument right now is that Diablo 3 is a singleplayer game with an online requirement. Personally I missed the memo, Diablo 3 is a multiplayer game with a singleplaying option.

People think that the "DRM" is to prevent piracy. It may help, however I do know that it will eventually be emulated. The online only thing is to prevent corruption of a persistant online game.

We have some big things in Diablo 3. First one being the RMAH and while some people don't like this system it is there. Now if Blizzard can prevent this from being flooded with illegal items then I want them to do what they can. If online only is one of the best measures to prevent most of the problems that plagued Diablo 2 then i'm all for it.

The next one which isn't there yet is PvP. Now I personally don't want to play against people who hack, dupe and cheat. Again if online only helps prevent this then I want it to work.

Now when cheats do appear and i'm sure some may rear their heads eventually, I hope blizzard will handle it. More or less I know it isn't a sure fire way to stop cheating, piracy and the like. However if it can keep an epidemic far more contained, i'm happy its there.

I'll stop defending it if Diablo 3 starts showing the corruption that plagues Diablo 2.

do you work for blizzard?

they should remove the real money auction house, then they dont need the always online thing.

if they add pvp, they could make you select from preset gear for the pvp, if they add pvp, again then the always online thing isnt needed.

Sorry but there is one reason and one reason only why D3 is online only....they turned you all into gold farmers.

Its not DRM..every game is hackable. Hell google Diablo 3 hacks, Diablo 3 mods, Diablo 3 Emulators...and they are everywhere. No game is unhackable. Even MMOS suffer from hacks and dupes and exploits.

They turned you into gold farmers. Period. They are taking 15% of the income you use for the real money auction house and enticing everyone to use it. Who doesnt think they can make money on the RMAH? Sure you can make money doing it, i doubt anything of any significance for the most part, but with even a few hundred transactions over a day, even cheap stuff like a quarter or such....blizzard is making even the smallest amount multiplied by many accounts....they are in this for money making...no other reason.

Sure you may cash out at 250 bucks....but for every 1 person who cash'es out at full pay....blizzard probably made 100 times that (all numbers are made up...but i feel these are even lowball numbers).

If / when i buy it...i havent yet cause the only online part irks me...i will never use the RMAH. But dont think for a minute this is about DRM or preventing game copying, this is purely to turn you all into gold farmers and make continuous income off you all.

Originally posted by Creslin321

I'm just going to come out and say this...

Every single argument stating that D3 has to have online singleplayer to prevent cheating and hacking is stupid.  Yes, stupid.  I'm sorry, it's true.  These arguments are dumb.

Why are they dumb do you ask?

They are dumb because Blizz could have just had oh...you know, SINGLE PLAYER ONLY CHARACTERS.  What would have been the problem with this?  You have your single player only character that can never enter multiplayer, then you have your multiplayer character that is online only.  Both camps would be happy!

Why they didn't just do this, and why they saw fit to structure a single/multiplayer game as an MMORPG...I have no clue.  All I know is that when I play D3 singleplayer, I have like 300ping, and regularly suffer lag spikes...and that's just a special kind of BS.

FILTHY LUCRE! thats why, so they can get a skim on every auction house transaction.

Originally posted by Corehaven

Originally posted by feroshus

What didn't work?? Umm there were hacks and godly items inserted into the game? Mass duping? Sure the DRM might be to no avail, maybe it will fail and hacks/dupes will be rampant. But they're trying it this way, and there's nothing wrong with that.

The magical game system you made up wouldn't work any better than the one in D2, even if it is a bit different.

As for the emulator I guess you mean...an offline version of the game?? If such a thing will soon be created, doesn't that solve all your problems? You make no sense bro.

Calling the game Diablo doesn't give you some inherent right to play it offline, it's a new game, with new ideas. What a stupid thing to whine about....

 

Okay well you've now admited its different but claim it still wouldnt work giving absolutely no reason as to why it wouldnt except that the D2 version which was different didnt work.  I know if I dont like apples I probably will hate chicken fried steak.  Your logic is beyond sound.  

 

Im already aware of the duping and hacking as my original post said something about it if you were able to read. 

 

As for an emulator my point was if they use that and are able to hack into the Online version they can hack items in the emulator and just do it anyways thus making the online only aspect completely pointless, so you missed my point there completely. 

 

And I was never whining I was giving an alternative solution.  People not buying the game because of this isnt exactly good for Blizzard or Diablo and a simple solution would have alleviated that.  Besides, its text.  How the heck can you even hear my tone of voice anyways? 

 

Again as others have pointed out including me, you are wrong.  You seem too arrogant perhaps to see it.  But please dont be sarcastic and call me a "genius".  It takes one to know one.  So you wouldnt. 

 I don't think some of you understand how the online only for the sake of DRM really works.  I don't think it's so much about pirated copies of the game.  What you described of the emulators has no impact what-so-ever on the actual game itself.  There is no way for someone who is playing a hacked version of the game on an emulator to be able to post items to the official Bnet version of the game.  The emulators are self contained, and required for the hacked versions fo the game.  People are going to make emulators so that other people can play D3 without buying the game.  Without the emulator a hacked version of the game is useless.

People can do all the duping and hacking they want on an emulated server, with a cracked version of the game.  It will NEVER effect anyone playing the official copy because they won't be on the Bnet server, and therefore any item they dupe or any hack that they use will not be on the Bnet server, it'll be contained on their PC or on someone elses server.

I'm pretty sure Blizzard understands, as do most every game company, that you can't stop peopel from pirating a game. 

To top it off, not a single person posting on these forums should be complaining about an online only aspect of the game and it being the reason they wont play it.  You're connected to the internet, and posting on a forum dedicated to online rpg's for crying out loud.  YOU'RE COMPLAINING ABOUT AN ONLINE GAME, ON AN ONLINE FORUM, DEDICATED TO ONLINE GAMING. 

D3 is an online game, just like WoW is an online game.  Just because one is an MMO and the other isn't, is irrelivent.  No one made an issue that you needed an internet connection to play MAG, and D3 is no diffirent.  It's not D2, it's D3, and D3 is intended, by the developers, to be played over the internet.  You really can't complain about that.

Being pissed about the server outages is one thing.  Saying you wont play the game because it's online, while you're posting on an online forum dedicated to online games is a whole other bit of nonsense. 

You can defend your stance all you like.  In the end I'm reading your post, on an online forum dedicated to online games, in which you say you won't play a game because it requires you to be onlline.  YOU'RE ALREADY ONLINE!  How else should a sane, rational individual see such an act?  It sure doesn't look sensible from where I'm standing.

There should have been the choice, to either play the online always version, or play a localised version, this would at least give the option for people to play the game when the servers are either down or having problems, and how about when the server is so full there is no room for more to log in.. its a single player game, and you have to queue to play.. how can that ever be right ?  by doing what they did, they have created a game that will from time to time, be unplayable, at the mercy of whatever problems the servers may have, from downtime to maintenance issues, or just plain DDOS ones, what this is really about, is that players always have access to the RMAH, and so are likely, to use it, which generates revenue for Blizzard, in other words, i see the whole online only thing as being just another attempt to nickel and dime the playerbase, a blatant cash grab if there ever was. because players who are playing an offline only mode game, are a lost cash opportunity.

Online only is stupid, stop protecting it.

If Blizzard wanted to, they could have made the option to make an offline only character and online character. Problem fixed.

I will say it again: online only is bad for the whole gaming community.

Originally posted by Uhwop

To top it off, not a single person posting on these forums should be complaining about an online only aspect of the game and it being the reason they wont play it.  You're connected to the internet, and posting on a forum dedicated to online rpg's for crying out loud.  YOU'RE COMPLAINING ABOUT AN ONLINE GAME, ON AN ONLINE FORUM, DEDICATED TO ONLINE GAMING. 

If this were an MMO, I'd agree. However, it is a game with single-player mode and the single-player experience can be degraded based on login queues, outages and latency. Not to mention, there are a number of use-cases where a person should expect to be able to play a single-player game. Just a couple off the top of my head and that I've got experience with: If my ISP is down, I would expect to be able to play a single-player game. Since I travel for busniess, I expect to be able to play a single-player game while traveling and when I don't have a reliable internet connection.

I'm sure with a little imagination people could add any number of valid scenarios for posting on online forums and having reasonable expectations for single-player games. 

Originally posted by Phry

There should have been the choice, to either play the online always version, or play a localised version, this would at least give the option for people to play the game when the servers are either down or having problems, and how about when the server is so full there is no room for more to log in.. its a single player game, and you have to queue to play.. how can that ever be right ?  by doing what they did, they have created a game that will from time to time, be unplayable, at the mercy of whatever problems the servers may have, from downtime to maintenance issues, or just plain DDOS ones, what this is really about, is that players always have access to the RMAH, and so are likely, to use it, which generates revenue for Blizzard, in other words, i see the whole online only thing as being just another attempt to nickel and dime the playerbase, a blatant cash grab if there ever was. because players who are playing an offline only mode game, are a lost cash opportunity.

I'm loving D3, but I fully agree with you. Though I'm playing mostly with friends, I can understand the disappointment in those who want to play solo

I hate to say it but this is the future of not just gaming, but software in general.  Being in the tech industry i've been privy to some fun conferences and a lot of major companies are leaning toward things where you just "subscribe to" but never own.  Games are the test, operating systems and productivity products are next.

I"m sure at first this was about piracy, but it's also evidience that its more money.  

I just had no interest in Diablo 3 and ignored it. I remember my fon memories of Diablo 1 and 2. I installed my first 1 gigabyte hard drive to play diablo. And i remember thinking at he time, one gigabyte, what in the world would i do with that much memory.  

But times have changed, now its a hybrid game of sorts.  

D3 is an online game. 

How come I don't see you people in the general discussiion refusing to play any of the games listed on this website because they require you to be online. 

I see people arguing all the time that guild wars isn't an MMO, yet not one of you has said you refused to play it because it was strickly online.

Guess what.

D3 is just like GW.  I can play it solo until I'm tired of it, or I can play it with a friend, or with complete strangers.  It's eventually going to have PvP and an entire arean system with leader boards.  Just like GW. 

The only thing D3 is missing is the persistant lobby.  I could care less about the lobby, it only annoyed me in GW.

I wouldn't expect some of you to get that.  You probably didn't buy it, so you wouldn't understand that the online part isn't just a tacked on afterthought for the sake of DRM.  It's actually a big part of the game.

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by wrightstuf

This whole arguement wether D3 should have a separate offline single player separate from online single player baffles me.

Did it ever occur to you that Blizzard just does not want any cheating in their game whatsoever. sure, you could say..."hey, who cares if i hack, dupe, cheat. I'm being kept separate from the online community and no one else will see me. " Blizzard doesnt see it that way. They do not want that element in their game at all, simple as that. They have always strived for integrity in their games and I applaud them for doing what they can in D3.

So, next time you get your "error 37,"  blame the fucking criminals, not blizzard.

 

Criminals?  Really...criminals?

So do you think that "GameGenie" should be considered contraband?  And anyone that enters console commands in Skyrim should be arrested?

The fact that you think players using cheat codes who play single player only are somehow "criminals" is just...I don't really know what to say.

Also...there still IS a way to get powerful items without actually playing the game to get them in D3 (cheating).  Except now, it costs real money, and that's really the whole point of this.

 

 Criminals. The DMCA created a whole new class of criminals. Unfortunately with all the current laws we're all criminals. You can't do anything without breaking a law or regulation anymore. Just a footnote don't care to get into a political wrangle.

Back to the original topic. There are other purposes to this besides the RMAH and piracy prevention. Blizzard is trying to make Battlenet a social hub. For that they need everyone connected. Also they're trying to make achievement systems and co-op play as well as PvP a centerpiece of their games to increase replayability. That also doesn't work if you're not connected. I know some people don't like those things but that's part of why. They're trying to make their products a part of your daily life not something you play for a few weeks then shelve. Diablo wants your soul and I'm not kidding.

Originally posted by Uhwop

D3 is an online game. 

How come I don't see you people in the general discussiion refusing to play any of the games listed on this website because they require you to be online. 

I see people arguing all the time that guild wars isn't an MMO, yet not one of you has said you refused to play it because it was strickly online.

 

Guess what.

D3 is just like GW.  I can play it solo until I'm tired of it, or I can play it with a friend, or with complete strangers.  It's eventually going to have PvP and an entire arean system with leader boards.  Just like GW. 

The only thing D3 is missing is the persistant lobby.  I could care less about the lobby, it only annoyed me in GW.

I wouldn't expect some of you to get that.  You probably didn't buy it, so you wouldn't understand that the online part isn't just a tacked on afterthought for the sake of DRM.  It's actually a big part of the game.

Yup

Originally posted by Aori

Originally posted by Skarecrow7

Originally posted by Aori

Alright i'm going to start off by saying, my only intention of playing Diablo 3 is multiplayer. I find singleplayer games a waste of money for what I personally get out of them.

Now the big argument right now is that Diablo 3 is a singleplayer game with an online requirement. Personally I missed the memo, Diablo 3 is a multiplayer game with a singleplaying option.

People think that the "DRM" is to prevent piracy. It may help, however I do know that it will eventually be emulated. The online only thing is to prevent corruption of a persistant online game.

We have some big things in Diablo 3. First one being the RMAH and while some people don't like this system it is there. Now if Blizzard can prevent this from being flooded with illegal items then I want them to do what they can. If online only is one of the best measures to prevent most of the problems that plagued Diablo 2 then i'm all for it.

The next one which isn't there yet is PvP. Now I personally don't want to play against people who hack, dupe and cheat. Again if online only helps prevent this then I want it to work.

Now when cheats do appear and i'm sure some may rear their heads eventually, I hope blizzard will handle it. More or less I know it isn't a sure fire way to stop cheating, piracy and the like. However if it can keep an epidemic far more contained, i'm happy its there.

I'll stop defending it if Diablo 3 starts showing the corruption that plagues Diablo 2.

Why? Just cause you dont "do" single player, why does that mean anyone who does should have to suffer for it?

It was just my reasons for defending it, also if you would read my post you would see my answer to your why.

You are defending multi player. For someone who wants to just play as a single player game (and believe it or not, there is people that like doing that) what does ANY of that have to do with their game?  The RMAH, the PvP, the stopping the hackers.. that is all multiplayer. I remember getting Diablo one and enjoying the single player, getting D2 when it first came out and doing the single player, I wont be getting the 3rd because, like you said, it is for multi player mode.

I cant figure out why people think that the online only online all the time model is DRM. The DRM aspect of it is purely a bonus for them.

The all-online aspect is 100% related to money. They want everyone to have access to the RMAH or as it is known in other games, cash shop.

Shady or not, the game is released. The game has the AH. The game is all online. They will never make an offline version. They want the revenue.

Do I support the model? No. But I dont care since it doesn't bother me or get in the way of my play.

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Originally posted by Uhwop

D3 is an online game. 

How come I don't see you people in the general discussiion refusing to play any of the games listed on this website because they require you to be online. 

I see people arguing all the time that guild wars isn't an MMO, yet not one of you has said you refused to play it because it was strickly online.

 

Guess what.

D3 is just like GW.  I can play it solo until I'm tired of it, or I can play it with a friend, or with complete strangers.  It's eventually going to have PvP and an entire arean system with leader boards.  Just like GW. 

The only thing D3 is missing is the persistant lobby.  I could care less about the lobby, it only annoyed me in GW.

I wouldn't expect some of you to get that.  You probably didn't buy it, so you wouldn't understand that the online part isn't just a tacked on afterthought for the sake of DRM.  It's actually a big part of the game.

Yup

Yessir.