Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Vesavius

 

Don't put words in to my mouth.

No, I am not saying that.

I am saying that, in regards to your point, DF suffered for it's lack of focus. Maybe if they focused they objectives according to their budget they might have delivered a better game out of the gate.

That's all I have to say about Darkfall, mainly because it's not a great example of a game at launch to be waving about to illustrate that 'you can have it all'.

Just because someone dosen't give you the answer you want does not mean they didn't understand the question.

 

Look, the bottom line is that I think this game has got it all wrong in going for the PvP market. I think it's aiming for a saturated area and on top of that it's going to suffer from being completely out of fashion when it hits. I think, personally, that it's in trouble. Maybe read the quote boxes above to understand fully what I am saying.

look you nearly explictly said that zenimax doesnt realistically have the resources to do all that and I am saying that ALL of it was done by AV which I would assume has much less resources than zenimax does.

I have answered this already, and really me doing so again is just gonna put us into a circle. What I have said stands, take it or leave it really. No offense.

As an aside though, have you numbers on Zenimax's dev budget? I haven't seen any yet... I would be interested.

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Vesavius

 

Don't put words in to my mouth.

No, I am not saying that.

I am saying that, in regards to your point, DF suffered for it's lack of focus. Maybe if they focused they objectives according to their budget they might have delivered a better game out of the gate.

That's all I have to say about Darkfall, mainly because it's not a great example of a game at launch to be waving about to illustrate that 'you can have it all'.

Just because someone dosen't give you the answer you want does not mean they didn't understand the question.

 

Look, the bottom line is that I think this game has got it all wrong in going for the PvP market. I think it's aiming for a saturated area and on top of that it's going to suffer from being completely out of fashion when it hits. I think, personally, that it's in trouble. Maybe read the quote boxes above to understand fully what I am saying.

look you nearly explictly said that zenimax doesnt realistically have the resources to do all that and I am saying that ALL of it was done by AV which I would assume has much less resources than zenimax does.

 

I have answered this already, and really me doing so again is just gonna put us into a circle. What I have said stands, take it or leave it really. No offense.

As an aside though, have you numbers on Zenimax's dev budget? I haven't seen any yet... I would be interested.

 

So at least now we are on the same page.

you think (although do not have numbers) that Zenimax doesnt have the resources to do this and you have agreed that this is what you have said.

Although I do not have the numbers either, like you dont have the numbers either, I am suggesting the AV has done this and they are a very low budget firm.

are we now clear?

plain n simple ..fluff n stuff wont come untill they make money or have a player base ...if they dont ..then theres no fluff

Originally posted by odinsrath

plain n simple ..fluff n stuff wont come untill they make money or have a player base ...if they dont ..then theres no fluff

as I have pointed out the main issue is not having player housing the issue is the reason they gave.

Its very clear from posts here as well as my personal experience that most gamers, even new ones, have more experience on what is possible in a game then the staff at zenimax regardless of if they decide to do it or not they claim its not possible

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Vesavius

 

Don't put words in to my mouth.

No, I am not saying that.

I am saying that, in regards to your point, DF suffered for it's lack of focus. Maybe if they focused they objectives according to their budget they might have delivered a better game out of the gate.

That's all I have to say about Darkfall, mainly because it's not a great example of a game at launch to be waving about to illustrate that 'you can have it all'.

Just because someone dosen't give you the answer you want does not mean they didn't understand the question.

 

Look, the bottom line is that I think this game has got it all wrong in going for the PvP market. I think it's aiming for a saturated area and on top of that it's going to suffer from being completely out of fashion when it hits. I think, personally, that it's in trouble. Maybe read the quote boxes above to understand fully what I am saying.

look you nearly explictly said that zenimax doesnt realistically have the resources to do all that and I am saying that ALL of it was done by AV which I would assume has much less resources than zenimax does.

 

I have answered this already, and really me doing so again is just gonna put us into a circle. What I have said stands, take it or leave it really. No offense.

As an aside though, have you numbers on Zenimax's dev budget? I haven't seen any yet... I would be interested.

So at least now we are on the same page.

you think (although do not have numbers) that Zenimax doesnt have the resources to do this and you have agreed that this is what you have said.

Although I do not have the numbers either, like you dont have the numbers either, I am suggesting the AV has done this and they are a very low budget firm.

are we now clear?

lol you really DO enjoy putting words in to other people's mouths so they seem to be saying what you want them to say don't you?

Look, what I have said is up there, I have nothing more to add and repeating myself in order to keep clarifying and correcting your jaundiced paraphrasing gets boring. Take it or leave it, but please don't keep rephrasing what I have said in order to suit your point.

I have no idea of the Zenimax budget and I was making no point. I was asking a clear and honest question because I was genuinlly interested.

(also, In a little way I was trying to move our conversation out of this hostile area and in to more of a conversational area, but nm.).

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by SEANMCAD
 

lol you really DO enjoy putting words in to other people's mouths so they seem to be saying what you want them to say don't you?

Look, what I have said is up there, I have nothing more to add and repeating myself in order to keep clarifying and correcting your jaundiced paraphrasing gets boring. Take it or leave it, but please don't keep rephrasing what I have said in order to suit your point.

 

I have no idea of the Zenimax budget and I was making no point. I was asking a clear and honest question because I was genuinlly interested.

 

(also, In a little way I was trying to move our conversation out of this hostile area and in to more of a conversational area, but nm.).

maybe I read someone else then. You are saying you did not say that many of the things people want to do would take up a lot of resources and maybe that is why they are not doing them?

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by SEANMCAD
 

lol you really DO enjoy putting words in to other people's mouths so they seem to be saying what you want them to say don't you?

Look, what I have said is up there, I have nothing more to add and repeating myself in order to keep clarifying and correcting your jaundiced paraphrasing gets boring. Take it or leave it, but please don't keep rephrasing what I have said in order to suit your point.

 

I have no idea of the Zenimax budget and I was making no point. I was asking a clear and honest question because I was genuinlly interested.

 

(also, In a little way I was trying to move our conversation out of this hostile area and in to more of a conversational area, but nm.).

maybe I read someone else then. You are saying you did not say that many of the things people want to do would take up a lot of resources and maybe that is why they are not doing them?

Forget it. I am bored of re-explaining.

*edit* Just to say I have stuck you on block now because it's obvious you can't let it go and I find your general tone antognistic and trollish. I know you 'won't care', and that's fine. Just saying it to save you maybe the bother of replying any more.

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by SEANMCAD
 

lol you really DO enjoy putting words in to other people's mouths so they seem to be saying what you want them to say don't you?

Look, what I have said is up there, I have nothing more to add and repeating myself in order to keep clarifying and correcting your jaundiced paraphrasing gets boring. Take it or leave it, but please don't keep rephrasing what I have said in order to suit your point.

 

I have no idea of the Zenimax budget and I was making no point. I was asking a clear and honest question because I was genuinlly interested.

 

(also, In a little way I was trying to move our conversation out of this hostile area and in to more of a conversational area, but nm.).

maybe I read someone else then. You are saying you did not say that many of the things people want to do would take up a lot of resources and maybe that is why they are not doing them?

 

Forget it. I am bored of re-explaining.

unless I quoted the wrong person then you know what I am saying its really not that hard to follow.

I would like to see player housing in the game for several reasons.

1. Creates a long term goal that is something other than a themepark gear grind, or factional rep grind

2. Feels like a real breathing MMO with player housing

3. Adds a different aspect of gameplay and economy by having player housing, castles and sieging

In MMOs its important to have different aspects to entertain players, and since this game is going with a pvp aspect of the game then they should have features which add to the expereince to make it feel whole. It seems the devs for ESO wont even plan to make it an inclusion for the future which is a shame, since not having player housing removes an important aspect to creating that depth of MMOs to feel like a simulated reality.

There are different methods to introduce player housing so that it can please as many people as possible while still offering a lot of features.

1. Offer limited real estate that gives housing to personal homes or castles

2. Have instanced areas which also offer player housing for storage as well

3. Have the limited real estate housing offer benefits to people participating in the area defending the neighborhoods whether they have homes or not. Allow people to set up vendors which can be related to peoples participation

4. Have a system that does not fluctate limited real estate by how how rich players but fix this by making homes destructible through interesting features of guild cities and certain events as well relating to that. Also there could be an insurance system so the cost of the house is partially returned to the players to try to regain what they lost. The point of this system is that even with limited real estate, the houses are gained and lost which makes them lose some of thier value. 

Therefore the focus should revolve around that and offering a system of economics and crafting that makes owning destructible castles/houses affordable but also offer certain rewards to try to regain them. Certain rewards can special resources, voting power, special items or mounts only active when owning the castle, special guild logo for house or castle, access to special content such hiding people missions, a prime location for pvp, a place for profit - can grow regants, hire vendors, trade goods of local area to foriegn trade networks and a guild city becomes a objective control for certain resources, 

There can be trade networks in the game, and owning certain realestate in certain areas increases chances of safer and more sucessful transportation of goods.

Overall, the idea of destructible homes is the way to go and offer instanced homes as well. The objective of limited real estate is to stimulate a very harsh stimulated world but also be balanced with a chance to get a return on investment of time and money but also with pvp and pve bonuses. So limited real estate would be objectively to conquer as much as possible prime land, maximize profit and invest into other expensive rewards such as expensive instanced housing to store trophies.

Since houses are destructible and this is an MMO, then  it could mean houses are very easily conquered but not necessarily.

Since they are in guild cities or contested area cities aligned to factions, and anyone in the guild/faction city can hire and upgrade the defenses of thier city. The more they invest the more get returned from catpuring players lost loot. Also guild cities can be timed events, and would make people to meet at certain times to fight to conquer or defend.

edit: Also in the idea there are trade networks and from that idea adds a different aspect to the game of raiding other peoples goods, and people trying to defend them as well.

A person can take the risk to transport goods for maximum profit and go with his caravan or sell it to someone in the city for less profit and they take the risk. Of course this means the only to move goods is through caravans and not through players. Or exploiting a mail system as well. I think its important to have something like this to create a constant need to be active in the game, and people can choose when to send out the caravan as well.

NM already answered in this thread

This game looks worse every day. And the genre continues to devolve despite us not even buying these pos single player mmorpgs. Lets look at it like this, the last what, 5 wow clones burned, yet they keep pushing them out.

Originally posted by theJexster

This game looks worse every day. And the genre continues to devolve despite us not even buying these pos single player mmorpgs. Lets look at it like this, the last what, 5 wow clones burned, yet they keep pushing them out.

Its like Adam Sandler movies. Each one more horrible than the last, yet he keeps on making them. WHY?!

Because people will buy it

Originally posted by PyrateLV

Its like Adam Sandler movies. Each one more horrible than the last, yet he keeps on making them. WHY?!

Because people will buy it

Click is pretty good =/.

To the OP, either you designate locations for housing at the very beginning of world design or you run into conflicts later on as you try to shuffle things around to create such areas. Considering the game has been in development for about 5 years, I have to say that most of their world design is probably done, so open-world housing is more than likely never making it in (at least according to the information provided by the article). I could very easily see the game having instanced housing, maybe not at launch, but implemented farther down the road, and frankly there's nothing wrong with that since past Elder Scrolls games did not provide you with the freedom to customize house placement, orientation, etc. (at least not that I know of).

Originally posted by stealthbr

Originally posted by PyrateLV

Its like Adam Sandler movies. Each one more horrible than the last, yet he keeps on making them. WHY?!

Because people will buy it

Click is pretty good =/.

To the OP, either you designate locations for housing at the very beginning of world design or you run into conflicts later on as you try to shuffle things around to create such areas. Considering the game has been in development for about 5 years, I have to say that most of their world design is probably done, so open-world housing is more than likely never making it in (at least according to the information provided by the article). I could very easily see the game having instanced housing, maybe not at launch, but implemented farther down the road, and frankly there's nothing wrong with that since past Elder Scrolls games did not provide you with the freedom to customize house placement, orientation, etc. (at least not that I know of).

I think people need to be wary of making up better excuses for Zenimax then they are able to do for themselves.

What I mean is the statement they made of 'cant do player housing like players want' is a far cry from 'we might do it later'.

Regardless of if its likely they or not for them to do in the future players should hold them accountable for what they just said, not for something that might happen down the line.

That is my view anyway.

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Originally posted by SEANMCAD

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Originally posted by stealthbr

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Originally posted by PyrateLV Its like Adam Sandler movies. Each one more horrible than the last, yet he keeps on making them. WHY?! Because people will buy it

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Click is pretty good =/. To the OP, either you designate locations for housing at the very beginning of world design or you run into conflicts later on as you try to shuffle things around to create such areas. Considering the game has been in development for about 5 years, I have to say that most of their world design is probably done, so open-world housing is more than likely never making it in (at least according to the information provided by the article). I could very easily see the game having instanced housing, maybe not at launch, but implemented farther down the road, and frankly there's nothing wrong with that since past Elder Scrolls games did not provide you with the freedom to customize house placement, orientation, etc. (at least not that I know of).

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I think people need to be wary of making up better excuses for Zenimax then they are able to do for themselves.

What I mean is the statement they made of 'cant do player housing like players want' is a far cry from 'we might do it later'.

Regardless of if its likely they or not for them to do in the future players should hold them accountable for what they just said, not for something that might happen down the line.

 

That is my view anyway.

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Hopefully, the game wont sell many boxes. The backlash has been big and the taste of SWTOR is still lingering so there is a decent chance this game will be DOA.

The slew of WoW clones have sold a shitton of boxes, but if the next big clone doesnt even do that I dare say the cycle might break. If that happens I'll run down my street naked with nothing but a Cylon helmet on my head. Yes I will post pics too.

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Originally posted by karmath
Hopefully, the game wont sell many boxes. The backlash has been big and the taste of SWTOR is still lingering so there is a decent chance this game will be DOA.

The slew of WoW clones have sold a shitton of boxes, but if the next big clone doesnt even do that I dare say the cycle might break. If that happens I'll run down my street naked with nothing but a Cylon helmet on my head. Yes I will post pics too.

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Originally posted by lizardbones

 

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Originally posted by karmath
Hopefully, the game wont sell many boxes. The backlash has been big and the taste of SWTOR is still lingering so there is a decent chance this game will be DOA.

 

The slew of WoW clones have sold a shitton of boxes, but if the next big clone doesnt even do that I dare say the cycle might break. If that happens I'll run down my street naked with nothing but a Cylon helmet on my head. Yes I will post pics too.

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This game may not be a a 'true' Elder Scrolls game, but it's not a WoW clone either. Design conflicts with Elder Scrolls aside, it could be a very well done game.

 

How many times has that been said.

Every game recently has one really good new feature, yet they all still are vapid clones at the core and flop a few months after launch. Why anyone still has a slither of hope  I really cant understand, how much more precedent do people need?

Player housing is nitpicking.  The design of the game is sounding better, is it elderscroll, at its heart they seem to be wanting it to be. 

]Combat has changed, well that's good it's alwayhs sucked in elder scroll. Combat was never the strong point of the game.

Player housing.  Again, in a single player game i think its important. In a multiplayer game i coudl give a care. I look at it the George Carlin way. A house is only a place to keep your stuff. Well, if the game gives us other ways to keep our stuff why do i care about housing.  I've had houses in a couple games, it was neat when it was invented but in the lasdt two games they were more annoyance than anything.  Who cares if people can cometo my house.  

And for those crying housing in the real world, theres neve a threat of being robbed in the single player game, so i expecvt that in the multiplayer game. I also don't want the annoynace of having to look for my house.  In the single player game i can at least find it fairly easy.  

I've read previews on here and on IGN. Both described a game that was devout of a trinity and allowed you access to dungeons that had puzzles and monsters similar to elder scroll.  

My hope comes from the fact that GW2  comes out this year, and its effecting a lot of future game designs, this one included.  

Originally posted by Thorbrand

Player housing does nothing for a better gaming experience in MMOs. Just a waste of money, time and resources.

  Well if they were actually making a innovative MMO and bringing an Elders scrolls world for players to live in  then yes it does a lot for a the MMO in regard to player formed communities if the housing is  not an instance.

 They serve as vendor spots, or place you have a garden to grow things used by other players, the list could go on with some imagination. In UO housing was far from nothing. Now the wow formula yes, housing is a bit of fluff that pointless for the most part. Elders scrolls should not be a themepark, it should have been a  world to live in and let the players create the drama.