Originally posted by Zadawn

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Zadawn

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Zadawn

Originally posted by BarCrow

I know what many people mean. Just the other day ..living in Florida I went to Disney World. I paid full price to enter the park but I'll be damned if they didnt charge me for all the food and beverages as well as a pair of Mickey Mouse ears and a Pluto keychain. Pay to play at Disney World and Cash shop. Bullshit!!

Because there's absolute no difference between disney world and a mmorpg.

Well, they both are theme parks that let you ride everything for the price of admission and charge you extra for things such as clothing.

I think the analogy was pretty good actually.

 

Can you really make no difference between real life and a game?

Are you really unaware that you are taking the anaology too literally? 

Then lets say he would have been staring at the other people's food and beverages drooling.

That's really where the hatred comes from too. While others have no problem...the embittered ( or the "principled" as they would likely call themselves) stare and drool at what others have that they don't ...all the while crying "sour grapes".

I don't go hog wild in cash shops but I certainly don't mind them as an option and am not above getting that Slayer weapon-skin for $9.99 if I choose to fork out some cash from my very meager account.

Originally posted by BarCrow

Originally posted by Zadawn

Originally posted by BarCrow

I know what many people mean. Just the other day ..living in Florida I went to Disney World. I paid full price to enter the park but I'll be damned if they didnt charge me for all the food and beverages as well as a pair of Mickey Mouse ears and a Pluto keychain. Pay to play at Disney World and Cash shop. Bullshit!!

Because there's absolute no difference between disney world and a mmorpg.

The difference is  how  is one is alright over the other in regards to what you pay for?

Why should one assume a box price  should get them everything else that is or may be created for an MMO?

Because one company does it?..oh that's right GW2 has a cash shop too. Plenty of people don't even want to pay a sub for a P2P. As if maintaining ass-loads of servers is free.Then they don't expect to pay for free to play games because they haven't grasped that nothings free...ever.

Why is so many expect this from an MMO and not from anything else you pay for ...like access to Disney World and everything within its gates for the admission price?

Because it's a completely mixed analogy. GW2 is buy-to-play; their cash shop takes the place of subscriptions. Similarly, free-to-play games use cash shops in place of subscriptions, but they sell a heck of a lot more. Tera is a subscription-based game; their subscription is supposed to take the place of cash shops. In the original Disneyland analogy, Disneyland would be B2P - the initial purchase gets you in and gives you access to the rides, but extras come out of your own pocket. F2P games would be like state fairs, where looking around is free, but everything else comes out of your own pocket. There isn't an amusement park model currently in existence that's analogous to subscription-based games. That's why it's a bad example.

Originally posted by BarCrow

Originally posted by Zadawn

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Zadawn

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Zadawn

Originally posted by BarCrow

I know what many people mean. Just the other day ..living in Florida I went to Disney World. I paid full price to enter the park but I'll be damned if they didnt charge me for all the food and beverages as well as a pair of Mickey Mouse ears and a Pluto keychain. Pay to play at Disney World and Cash shop. Bullshit!!

Because there's absolute no difference between disney world and a mmorpg.

Well, they both are theme parks that let you ride everything for the price of admission and charge you extra for things such as clothing.

I think the analogy was pretty good actually.

 

Can you really make no difference between real life and a game?

Are you really unaware that you are taking the anaology too literally? 

Then lets say he would have been staring at the other people's food and beverages drooling.

That's really where the hatred comes from too. While others have no problem...the embittered ( or the "principled" as they would likely call themselves) stare and drool at what others have that they don't ...all the while crying "sour grapes".

I don't go hog wild in cash shops but I certainly don't mind them as an option and am not above getting that Slayer weapon-skin for $9.99 if I choose to fork out some cash from my very meager account.

When i purchased the box i expected to be equal with any other player .When i see they got something that i don't have access to unless i pay,i'm pissed.

Originally posted by Dahkot72

I know right ? WTH ? I mean these things let you buy weapons that let you wtpwn in PVP  and skip levels in PVE and get better equip than raiders and everything ,

 

Right ?

I mean surely they must do that because no one would really whine and complain about people being able to buy cosmetic items that have zero effect on gameplay.

Would they ? 

They would because it almost always starts like this and then little by little they start to add "convenience items" and then start adding weapons and armors but that is ok because you can get that in game as well (if you grind for endless hours) and eventually you will have a cash shop which is mostly Pay 2 Win.

They are using the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog syndrome which essentially means they are adding little by little, hoping you wont notice until you are "boiled alive".

Cut and paste GW2 cash shop threads insert here. 

Originally posted by Jenuviel

Originally posted by BarCrow

Originally posted by Zadawn

Originally posted by BarCrow

 

Because it's a completely mixed analogy. GW2 is Buy-to-play; their cash shop takes the place of subscriptions. Similarly, free-to-play games use cash shops in place of subscriptions, but they sell a heck of a lot more. Tera is a subscription-based game; their subscription is supposed to take the place of cash shops. In the original Disneyland analogy, Disneyland would be B2P - the initial purchase gets you in and gives you access to the rides, but extras come out of your own pocket. F2P games would be like state fairs, where looking around is free, but everything else comes out of your own pocket. There isn't an amusement park model currently in existence that's analogous to subscription-based games. That's why it's a bad example.

^ Is correct. It would be like going to Disney World, paying to get in, paying for each hour you are in, and also paying for food and souvenirs.

Originally posted by Zadawn

Originally posted by BarCrow

Originally posted by Zadawn

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Zadawn

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Zadawn

Originally posted by BarCrow

I know what many people mean. Just the other day ..living in Florida I went to Disney World. I paid full price to enter the park but I'll be damned if they didnt charge me for all the food and beverages as well as a pair of Mickey Mouse ears and a Pluto keychain. Pay to play at Disney World and Cash shop. Bullshit!!

Because there's absolute no difference between disney world and a mmorpg.

Well, they both are theme parks that let you ride everything for the price of admission and charge you extra for things such as clothing.

I think the analogy was pretty good actually.

 

Can you really make no difference between real life and a game?

Are you really unaware that you are taking the anaology too literally? 

Then lets say he would have been staring at the other people's food and beverages drooling.

That's really where the hatred comes from too. While others have no problem...the embittered ( or the "principled" as they would likely call themselves) stare and drool at what others have that they don't ...all the while crying "sour grapes".

I don't go hog wild in cash shops but I certainly don't mind them as an option and am not above getting that Slayer weapon-skin for $9.99 if I choose to fork out some cash from my very meager account.

When i purchased the box i expected to be equal with any other player .When i see they got something that i don't have access to unless i pay,i'm pissed.

Zadawn you play WoW...they sell $25 mounts, server transfers and the whole deal.

It's should just be expected now because people WILL buy this stuff, why wouldn't the company do this. Also I blame WoWs playerbase in a sense, they are the kings of getting milked and it makes billions for Blizzard. Why wouldn't other companies do the same...

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Dahkot72

I know right ? WTH ? I mean these things let you buy weapons that let you wtpwn in PVP  and skip levels in PVE and get better equip than raiders and everything ,

 

Right ?

I mean surely they must do that because no one would really whine and complain about people being able to buy cosmetic items that have zero effect on gameplay.

Would they ? 

They would because it almost always starts like this and then little by little they start to add "convenience items" and then start adding weapons and armors but that is ok because you can get that in game as well (if you grind for endless hours) and eventually you will have a cash shop which is mostly Pay 2 Win.

They are using the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog syndrome which essentially means they are adding little by little, hoping you wont notice until you are "boiled alive".

EQ and EQ2 have had cash shops for years and arent pay 2 win.  LOTRO is getting dangerously close though.

The odd thing about the TERA shop is even knowing it isnt a popular concept in the east, they released it before the first month is up.  This *will* cost them subs (although Im in the 'its no big deal if it stays fluff' camp.

Selling appearance changes the first month is kind of ridiculous though.  Just put in a barbershop.

Originally posted by Zadawn

Originally posted by BarCrow

Originally posted by Zadawn

Originally posted by BarCrow

I know what many people mean. Just the other day ..living in Florida I went to Disney World. I paid full price to enter the park but I'll be damned if they didnt charge me for all the food and beverages as well as a pair of Mickey Mouse ears and a Pluto keychain. Pay to play at Disney World and Cash shop. Bullshit!!

Because there's absolute no difference between disney world and a mmorpg.

The difference is  how  is one is alright over the other in regards to what you pay for?

Why should one assume a box price  should get them everything else that is or may be created for an MMO?

Because one company does it?..oh that's right GW2 has a cash shop too. Plenty of people don't even want to pay a sub for a P2P. As if maintaining ass-loads of servers is free.Then they don't expect to pay for free to play games because they haven't grasped that nothings free...ever.

Why is so many expect this from an MMO and not from anything else you pay for ...like access to Disney World and everything within its gates for the admission price?

FIrst,it is most likely that the food,beverages and souvenir vendors are not linked to disney,which makes them independent therefore they need to make money,unlike an mmorpg where the extras are provided by the same company which also takes the money from the subs and boxes.

Secondly,if you have that much money that you cannot see when someone's trying to rip you off ,you should start realising that there are people who can see that and are not pleased with it.

I have very little money. No ones ripping me off. I know there are people that are not pleased. But they dont have to buy anything.Nothing is necessary in that shop. Others..maybe..Enmasse's shop...no. They need to realize all cash shops are not the same.

As far as your outside vendor points and Geezergamers opinion that it's a terrible analogy ...I'm not going into that other than to say Kyleran was right..you two ( and many others I've noticed) take analogies too literally.

a basic definition of an analogy: a form of reasoning in which one thing is inferred to be similarto another thing in a certain respect, on the basis of the known similarity between the things in other respects.  

Take an analogy they give as example:: l a heart is like like a pump.

They both pump a fluid..but not too many pumps are made of living tissue as far as I know and no hearts pump gasoline so this analogy must be a poor one too. Right?

Analogies do not require every single aspect you can pick apart to be identical.

Too literal people. Come on.

Originally posted by rexzshadow

Originally posted by Zadawn

Originally posted by Erocket

Soo wait, a character remodel/gender change/race change should be included with the subsription? Also some fancy outrageous weapon skins, that only apply over a weapon you already have is a horrible cash shop? Yes this is all stuff that completely changes how people play the game.These aren't even "conveniance" items that make playing through easier/faster. Last time I checked most MMOs have some sort of character remodel feature that costs real money. Seriously! 

Included indeed or not available at all.

Love how everyone throwing a fit over these thing, same things WoW has for years, race change, server change, faction change. Yet when Tera have it everyone throws a fit like its never happened before.

Oh, there was lots of fit throwing over those things when they were introduced in wow.  Not only that, but when they opened the cs with the sparkle pony?  Holy Sh*t!  Forget Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, it was  more like Hell hath no fury like a cs hater.  It was nuts.

Originally posted by Wakygreek

Originally posted by Otakun

P2P + cash shop = rip off. Whether it's P2W or not. 

 Sorry cannot agree with you here, not sure why a cash shop that is not P2W is a rip off, it is your choice to purchase the item and it in no way gives anyone an advantage. More games are going this route for some additional income, I think its a great idea as long as it doesn't go p2w.

Either you're one of the people who buy everything in these cash shops, or you're just a ignorant fool. First off, you buy the game, already giving them money. Then you have to pay them monthly. THEN they add a cash shop for items / fluff stuff that should be in game already. Honestly, think about it. You are paying for a game, and they aren't giving you the chance to get these items in game. Do you see the problem yet? This is like the Capcom on-disc DLC problem. They have all this content ready, but rather than offer it the players who are keeping the game going, they would rather choose to make you pay more money.

Originally posted by BarCrow

I know what many people mean. Just the other day ..living in Florida I went to Disney World. I paid full price to enter the park but I'll be damned if they didnt charge me for all the food and beverages as well as a pair of Mickey Mouse ears and a Pluto keychain. Pay to play at Disney World and Cash shop. Bullshit!!

Never been to Disney World, so I'll just assume regular themepark situation here...

You just paid an entrance fee that is equivalent to purchasing the box copy of a game. You didn't subscribe to a Disney World membership. Also food and beverages aren't really fluff or optional because you will get hungry and thirsty while there and they don't allow you to bring your own food (or do they?). Souvenir items are fluff though.

If I was way off on Disney World rules forget what I said above.

Usually when a person is subscribed to a membership it's all inclusive of amenities and services. That's how it used to work even in MMOs. Times have changed and I also dislike it, but it's here now so all I can do is deal with it. I can choose not to support a P2P game with a cash shop.

Originally posted by Zetsuei

Originally posted by Wakygreek

Originally posted by Otakun

P2P + cash shop = rip off. Whether it's P2W or not. 

 Sorry cannot agree with you here, not sure why a cash shop that is not P2W is a rip off, it is your choice to purchase the item and it in no way gives anyone an advantage. More games are going this route for some additional income, I think its a great idea as long as it doesn't go p2w.

Either you're one of the people who buy everything in these cash shops, or you're just a ignorant fool. First off, you buy the game, already giving them money. Then you have to pay them monthly. THEN they add a cash shop for items / fluff stuff that should be in game already. Honestly, think about it. You are paying for a game, and they aren't giving you the chance to get these items in game. Do you see the problem yet? This is like the Capcom on-disc DLC problem. They have all this content ready, but rather than offer it the players who are keeping the game going, they would rather choose to make you pay more money.

Thank WoWs success with this system for it's introduction in MMOs nowadays.

Originally posted by Zetsuei

Originally posted by Wakygreek

Originally posted by Otakun

P2P + cash shop = rip off. Whether it's P2W or not. 

 Sorry cannot agree with you here, not sure why a cash shop that is not P2W is a rip off, it is your choice to purchase the item and it in no way gives anyone an advantage. More games are going this route for some additional income, I think its a great idea as long as it doesn't go p2w.

Either you're one of the people who buy everything in these cash shops, or you're just a ignorant fool. First off, you buy the game, already giving them money. Then you have to pay them monthly. THEN they add a cash shop for items / fluff stuff that should be in game already. Honestly, think about it. You are paying for a game, and they aren't giving you the chance to get these items in game. Do you see the problem yet? This is like the Capcom on-disc DLC problem. They have all this content ready, but rather than offer it the players who are keeping the game going, they would rather choose to make you pay more money.

Well put! I believe even anything in GW2 cash shop is also available in game if I'm not mistaken.

Originally posted by Zetsuei

Originally posted by Wakygreek

Originally posted by Otakun

P2P + cash shop = rip off. Whether it's P2W or not. 

 Sorry cannot agree with you here, not sure why a cash shop that is not P2W is a rip off, it is your choice to purchase the item and it in no way gives anyone an advantage. More games are going this route for some additional income, I think its a great idea as long as it doesn't go p2w.

Either you're one of the people who buy everything in these cash shops, or you're just a ignorant fool. First off, you buy the game, already giving them money. Then you have to pay them monthly. THEN they add a cash shop for items / fluff stuff that should be in game already. Honestly, think about it. You are paying for a game, and they aren't giving you the chance to get these items in game. Do you see the problem yet? This is like the Capcom on-disc DLC problem. They have all this content ready, but rather than offer it the players who are keeping the game going, they would rather choose to make you pay more money.

Ok, first of all don't go insulting the guy and also don't go pushing your beliefs down people's throats.

Do you have cable? Well, there was a time when cable promised limited commercials and more content. Well, I can safely say that has changed. "Well I pay for it and I don't want to pay to be advertised to". Well, you and me both. But guess what? Turn on the cable channels and you see commercials. Heck, go to the movies and you will see actual commercials. That have nothing to do with movies.

Going forward you are going to be very hard pressed to find mmo's, and I suspect other games, that don't have some sort of cash shop.

Would I prefer to just pay one monthly fee and have done with it? Sure. But that's not really what's happening now is it? So who exactly is the ignorant fool? The person who has kept up wiht the times or the person who is holding onto what used to be but is now no longer?

As far as the "should be there" that is arguable.

If there was no avenue for dlc or fluff items or whatever then it's very possible they wouldn't bother with anything in the first place. I don't really recall a plethora of additional items in Lineage 2 or Lord of the Rings when the games were just a sub.

if they can make money off of it they will. So if this is your line in the sand then I think it's time to cross it.

Originally posted by niceguy3978

Originally posted by rexzshadow

Love how everyone throwing a fit over these thing, same things WoW has for years, race change, server change, faction change. Yet when Tera have it everyone throws a fit like its never happened before.

Oh, there was lots of fit throwing over those things when they were introduced in wow.  Not only that, but when they opened the cs with the sparkle pony?  Holy Sh*t!  Forget Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, it was  more like Hell hath no fury like a cs hater.  It was nuts.

I can see that but you think people be used to it by now? After many P2P game offer roughly the same thing peopel are stil throwing a fit over it?

Originally posted by Amjoco

Well put! I believe even anything in GW2 cash shop is also available in game if I'm not mistaken.

Not inv space or character slots, some of the idk boxes? or keys or whatever that give drop is obtainable through game.

Well then glad I didn't pick it up.  

Also cash shops are always ripoffs.  Making games is just another business, so if they game is making money by p2p then they make the game better so you keep playing and your get your friends to play.  If it's cash shopped based they work to annoy you to the point you buy the pretty clothes, instead of wearing the rags the game let you loot, or till you buy the xp or gold bouns instead of spending the days grinding. 

Originally posted by Drakxii

Well then glad I didn't pick it up.  

 

Also cash shops are always ripoffs.  Making games is just another business, so if they game is making money by p2p then they make the game better so you keep playing and your get your friends to play.  If it's cash shopped based they work to annoy you to the point you buy the pretty clothes, instead of wearing the rags the game let you loot, or till you buy the xp or gold bouns instead of spending the days grinding. 

Well first of all, all those premuin service are offered by most other P2P games, second the skin so far is limited sale only so we don't even know what they are selling. Third the in game gear doesn't look like RAGS they all look great, the skin simply make your weapon look like a different weapon. Aka warrior get 2 axe skin and lancer get a long sword instead of lance. And there never be exp or gold bonus unless they go F2P.

Originally posted by Drakxii

Well then glad I didn't pick it up.  

 

Also cash shops are always ripoffs.  Making games is just another business, so if they game is making money by p2p then they make the game better so you keep playing and your get your friends to play.  If it's cash shopped based they work to annoy you to the point you buy the pretty clothes, instead of wearing the rags the game let you loot, or till you buy the xp or gold bouns instead of spending the days grinding. 

This game let's us wear more than rags, the armor is godly. The stuff in the cash shop isn't even that nice(looks half assed to me), it's just different I guess, wouldn't even spend $5 for any of it let alone $10 when you've got amazing stuff in game already, no weapon pictures but here's examples of armor...

Weapons are just as good.

Originally posted by Amjoco

Originally posted by Zetsuei

Originally posted by Wakygreek

Originally posted by Otakun

P2P + cash shop = rip off. Whether it's P2W or not. 

 Sorry cannot agree with you here, not sure why a cash shop that is not P2W is a rip off, it is your choice to purchase the item and it in no way gives anyone an advantage. More games are going this route for some additional income, I think its a great idea as long as it doesn't go p2w.

Either you're one of the people who buy everything in these cash shops, or you're just a ignorant fool. First off, you buy the game, already giving them money. Then you have to pay them monthly. THEN they add a cash shop for items / fluff stuff that should be in game already. Honestly, think about it. You are paying for a game, and they aren't giving you the chance to get these items in game. Do you see the problem yet? This is like the Capcom on-disc DLC problem. They have all this content ready, but rather than offer it the players who are keeping the game going, they would rather choose to make you pay more money.

Well put! I believe even anything in GW2 cash shop is also available in game if I'm not mistaken.

Wait untill they start selling skills in the GW2 cash shop....

Anyway...its just costumes, which are no diffrent than deco pets.  If it supports making the game better people should care so long as they dont cross any lines and start adding enhancment/consumables or other pay per advantage items.

Its a rip off lucky for you its 100% optional.  Mabey buy them off a friend with in game gold if you need them in game so badly.