This is a terrible, misinformed thread. 

Game companies have different people working on the different parts of the games. There are no trade offs (save for fps/render tradeoffs) when it comes to MMORPGs.

there is no slider, pick one over the other doesn't happen.  Let me school you in game design real quick.

Game gets pitched via POC or other means. 

Studio starts work on the game. An artsyle is picked. Gameplay systems are designed.

Then the real work starts with the artists doing the various are that will make up the graphical systems and assets for the game and the programmers get to work on the script that will be the baseline for the whole thing.

Never, ever do the programmers go do art or the artists go program.  They are completely seperate. Therefor having a game with good graphics does not mean there is a tradeoff on gameplay or systems.  There is no cross talk in that way.

High rez assets can be scaled back at anytime to fit the needs of the engine. It takes almost no work (for an artist).  

Don't blame graphics for bad gameplay. Blame the programmers and game designers. They are the ones who lack talent or good vision. 

It has nothing to do with the artists or the graphics. 

Originally posted by Caldrin

Dont agree with the OP.

Open world games acn have good graphics and good gameplay.

Check out Mortal Online soem areas are done really well and look amazing using the unreal engine..(Sure this has issues but its mainly down to the small dev team)

I am sure archeage will be another really good looking open world game.

 

The reason the devs are going for smaller zones and so on is because its easier to control and cheaper to run, they also stick to the same old same old themepark mechanics because they know its gonna make them money.

 

 

So yes we can have it all its 2012 its about time with had a modern MMORPG with modern grapihcs and awesome gameplay..

 

 

 

 

I agree with the above. Mortal will also be coming out with a 64bit client too. So it will be the first totally seamless world using 64-bit client.

Better graphic = new game + new computer. So many money.....

Graphics have never made a bad game good ... I have never played a God-awful game and, because of the graphics, could have realistically recommended it to another individual.

For instance, would you ever say, "This game is horrible and basically unplayable, but go pay $60 on it because it is pretty."

To me, this is the one line of logic that always wins, but it is also an extreme.

No one may remember, or, if they do, only played during the first days of launch, but Vanguard was a great example.

Amazing graphics, from my point of view. Even if you did not like the art style, I don't think you could honestly say the graphics, from a technical aspect, were bad.

They also made the game unplayable.

Now, if you went back to the game a year later, fully equiped with new hardware, it was an amazing example of a PvE MMORPG. Again, you needed to give it some time, and there were many bugs that were never fixed, but I honestly think it was a good game at that point.

I am not saying that graphics were the only reason Vanguard failed, but, to me, they were one of the biggest contributers.

This being said, if two games were equal, I'd pick the prettier one.

What kills modern MMORPG, for me, is how easy every single one has become. There is no challenge, and, in every beta that I am in, there is massive resistance to any difficult content from the casual player base. Or, well, it isn't that they resist "difficult" content, they just resist content that takes an extended amount of time to get through. While I understand their concern, this often leads to "quick" content, which is almost always based on gimick gameplay and not raw HP/DMG, length, long-term survivability encounters, or lengthy exploration within a dungeon. It makes dungeon runs possible and short, but to anyone not playing causually, it makes the games instantly boring because you end up running the same 45 minute long dungeons day in, day out, and soon the content becomes stale and very ... VERY easy.

SWTOR was a good example. I have 4-5 hours to play a day, which meant I could run most of the dungeons every night. It only took a week for that to become boring, and when they can only realise 1, maybe 2 new dungeons every few months, how long can I honestly justify spending $15 a month on it, even though I like the rest of the game.

Devs often go for the "click this lever now or die" mechanic, or the "stand here or die" mechanic in order to strike a balance between difficulty and how long something is going to take to get through. But, that is another conversation ... things are just not as exciting to me when I know that no matter what I do, there is absolutly no penalty for mistakes ... no fear means no immersion to me.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

You missed one. The higher the graphics requirements the fewer the characters and mobs can be in a zone without bogging down. So you can choose higher graphics, a more open world, a more populated world. Pick any two.

I pick higher graphics and a more open world.

I agree with the OP 100%

It seems like Anet got the msg, thier graphics on GW2 are not out of control shiney. Its funny to hear so many gamers demanding open world, seamless, but no lagg and they want complete sandbox and on and on and on.....

Never stopping to think for a moment, that they are asking too much. Its real simple, we do not have the tech for that yet. For now you must choose. Todays gamers are also spoiled rotten.

So lets send the game devs a msg, that we will accpet middle of the road graphics, for a polished game.

Originally posted by Adalwulff

I agree with the OP 100%

It seems like Anet got the msg, thier graphics on GW2 are not out of control shiney. Its funny to hear so many gamers demanding open world, seamless, but no lagg and they want complete sandbox and on and on and on.....

Never stopping to think for a moment, that they are asking too much. Its real simple, we do not have the tech for that yet. For now you must choose. Todays gamers are also spoiled rotten.

So lets send the game devs a msg, that we will accpet middle of the road graphics, for a polished game.

Agreed.

I have to agree with the OP, many people seem to over look that, me personally would take WoW GFX in any MMO for the simple reason it is not a resource hog and it ages really well.

Another thing is I hate when MMO Dev use third party GFX engines, this only means problems because they have to work there MMO around that third party engine to make it work, but that never happens, all we ever get it BUG.BUGS and more BUGS, I respect when they creat there own engine just for that MMO and is the reason WoW is so god dam polished vs other MMO's.

Graphics have nothing to do with it.

SWG, at the time, was pushing the envelope to the extreme. We still got to experience deep and gigantic worlds.

I can say the same thing about Vanguard - another nice looking game (at the time) with a huge world.

The problem is that the developers release half-ass games. End of story.

If you think that you do not deserve both amazing ground breaking graphics and amazing revolutionary gameplay then you are selling yourself short.

If you think that game companies cannot deliver these things then you are being sold a pile of bullshit.

Stop letting game companies shit on your plate. Stop shoveling mouth fuls of poop into your pie hole and pretending it tastes delicious.

Good gameplay design doesn't necessarily take any longer to program than bad gameplay design.

You can have a team of the most talented programmers with all the time in the world and you will still come out with a crappy game if your game design is bad. Or you could have the worst programmers in the world (who create buggy, overly complicate code) and still have a brilliant game (albiet one that uses more processing power than it needs to and crashes every 20 minutes).

Good gameplay design is something that can be established in a couple of minutes, or through hours upon hours of play-testing and feedback, either way, more money doesn't always equal better gameplay design.

As such, chosing whether to have good graphics or bad graphics really isn't going to impact on your ability to deliver top-notch gameplay design. The main factor impacting on how good your game design is, is the people who are designing the game.

Originally posted by delete5230

The Secret World is about to fail because of the fancy crap.

Are you insane? The Secret World's graphics are NOT that good. They're on par with a 2005 release. Seriously, do you even know what "Good Graphics" are?

Also, SWTOR had BOTH HORRIBLE graphics and HORRIBLE Gameplay. RIFT had HORRIBLE graphics, and HORRIBLE gameplay. TERA has "DECENT" graphics, and MEDIOCRE repetitive gameplay.

Please, please tell me....where is that "Demand" for better graphics ruining the current genre? I'll give you a little hint, IT'S NOT.

"Demanding" better graphics, of which I've seen none of btw, isn't the current cause of the genre flopping so hard. It's bee over-stressed to the point of nausium that the problem are large companies wanting to make "Cash Grabs" from customers whom they know are nothing but sheep for a previously good companies name. 

@OP: You're wrong on more levels than I could point out in a single post.

Originally posted by JuJutsu

Originally posted by zymurgeist

You missed one. The higher the graphics requirements the fewer the characters and mobs can be in a zone without bogging down. So you can choose higher graphics, a more open world, a more populated world. Pick any two.

I pick higher graphics and a more open world.

 Then it's empty.

I have to say, im not on board with the OP. It seems like a sellout to assume that the decline in quality games is due to graphic requirements. I can't think of any MMO's released in the last two years other than Tera that had nice looking 2012 compatible graphics. 

In fact most of the games I see are underpar when it comes to graphics. Take SWTOR. The graphics are nice in their own way. There is a definite style and theme, they can be maxed out and still look simple or played at minimal specs and be servicable.

Graphics are not the problem with developers. Its greed all the way. Simplify gameplay and content in order to appeal to a broader range of gamers. Whoever pulls the most numbers wins.  So we end up with lifeless games and rehashed content.  This is the issue, not graphics.