I haven't actually played this game yet, but I've been following it for a while (not that I'm the only one). This is a question for those of you who have played it, though...

I hear a lot of people complain about melee classes being too squishy, making it so melee isn't a viable option in WvWvW. I heard the melee damage trumphs ranged, however, making it so when a melee class makes it into battle, he does his share of damage? Then I see classes like the guardian throwing down healing spells and walls that stop ranged damage. I also see guardians placing down speed buffs. This leads me to think that people who try and melee aren't coordinating things with other classes (which was a fundemental part of the game design, I think...).

An example of the coordination I'm talking about is placing that wall that stops ranged halfway between you and the ranged classes, grouping up melee classes, then placing that speed buff circle right after the wall so melee can make it in... or something.

So what do you guys think who've played the game? Can melee be viable if they have protection spells that boost them to the heat of battle? Or do you think ranged still has a massive advantage in that they can outrun and kite melee while shooting their weapons back?

If melee still isn't viable, what do you think should be done to fix the problem? I was thinking that perhaps ranged classes should do less damage while on the move or something, giving more of a reason to find a good siege position (like a hill) and fire away, but also giving melee a chance at some fun. But as I said before, I haven't gotten to play the game yet...

People just need to learn and use the combat mechanics properly.

You have to be carefull talking about melee classes, because even the mages can use melee.

I dont know too much about the mages, but playing a warrior was difficult against ranged. Sure I did a lot of damage, and I have snares and stuff, but closing the gap so I could hit the guy, was very tough.

I think at later levels the warrior gets some kind of "rush your oppenant" , that would be nice if he did.

Everyone is ranged and melee.

Can players melee successfully in WvW?  Of course they can.  What they cannot do is run into zergs of players or stack on fort doors and hope to survive.  Combat is situational so if players want to melee 100% of the time then they're not using every tool to their advantage.

Originally posted by Adalwulff

You have to be carefull talking about melee classes, because even the mages can use melee.

I dont know too much about the mages, but playing a warrior was difficult against ranged. Sure I did a lot of damage, and I have snares and stuff, but closing the gap so I could hit the guy, was very tough.

I think at later levels the warrior gets some kind of "rush your oppenant" , that would be nice if he did.

There are many rush your opponent skills right from the start.

That is pretty much it.  If a melee weapon character can close in, they can demolish a ranged weapon player.  And if ranged can hold their distance, ranged will win over melee.  It is all give and take.  Coordinating attacks such as ranged CCing other ranged to allow their melee in would surely be better.

yeah ppl just do not read skills im pretty sure every class has its  "come here" button  even Necromancer got instanse closing in with target so melee Necro can do a close fight  (as i dont play warrior or Guardian  but if  not really melee class got it they sure have it also). squishy might be :) but its a proper gear  and build needed :) again as Necro ^)

its just  some ppl enjoied game so much they never invested ("wasted") time into reading skills :))

Originally posted by Saxx0n

Originally posted by Adalwulff

You have to be carefull talking about melee classes, because even the mages can use melee.

I dont know too much about the mages, but playing a warrior was difficult against ranged. Sure I did a lot of damage, and I have snares and stuff, but closing the gap so I could hit the guy, was very tough.

I think at later levels the warrior gets some kind of "rush your oppenant" , that would be nice if he did.

There are many rush your opponent skills right from the start.

 

You like them one-liners dont ya, do bad there wrong.

The warrior has one skill, rush, with the greatsword, but it sucks because you can easily be stopped. That is the ONLY skill of its type.

So where are these "many" skills you are talking about?

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Originally posted by Saxx0n
People just need to learn and use the combat mechanics properly.

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This... NUFF SAID!

Originally posted by Alders

Everyone is ranged and melee.

This ^

People need to get out of the mindset that certain professions are melee (or close combat) and others are ranged.  Every profession can do both.  It's up to you to learn when to use each to be most effective.

Don't forget we barely having played yet only 3+days include stress, so pls give it time don't be like WoW wannebee players who want instant uberness hehe.

The cons of playing a melee are made up for by the pros from what I've seen. Melee characters seem to have, across the board, the most potential for dealing fast and brutal damage that ranged classes just do not pump out.

Yes, there's a trade off. To do that damage you give up the bit of safety that range provides, and you also need to be really on your toes as survival is a bit trickier.

Combat can get pretty hectic, if you want to play a melee spec you absolutely have to be paying attention to both what the enemy is doing and what your allies are doing to make the most of your abilities. If that's not something a potential melee spec player can adjust to, then it's really not a good choice for them. 

 Whether I'm playing short range, mid range or long range, the trade offs are always very clear and seem to be balanced very well.

I suspect initially a lot of melee players were expecting to endlessly unload on a target without having to move and adapt, that just doesn't happen the majority of the time (if ever).

first off there is no "melee class" but to give you an idea how it works.. I played a ranger to lvl 27 from the BWE + stress test, I tried every single weapon in PVE(NOT PVP! just tp clarify =P) I spent more time between the greatsword and longbow and in the end the greatsword was better for soloing, like killing stuff when there weren't many spawns or killing mobs in between events, but once it got heavy or other players were around that were melee it was best to go longbow. 

There were many reasons for this, one being just the number of aoes concentrated on melee.. now something to think about is that of course with 1 or infinite people this wont create MORE "red circles" but the number of people affected by them and the chance of them being on melee when the ability can be anywhere.. like a firestorm or something. So those that can go ranged should to alleviate the stress in melee range for those that didn't have ranged weapons equipped or just wants.

Another reason why it would be better to go ranged while in a grp if you can is sight.. the more bodies masking the telegraphed big abilities the mob does the less likely those that need to see it will see it.

And finally another reason is just type of abilities but this was a prof specific thing, I could cause vulnerability with longbow so I did to help everyones damage.

Ranger wasn;t the only prof like this, my husband played warrior and he did pretty much the same thing.

I smell leetism... really bad!!

I cant believe how many "learn to play" comments there are here, I find it disgusting. The OP doesnt seem to be a WoW player looking for uberness either, seriously get a grip guys.

There have been enough issues raised to warrant a civil discussion at the least. Closing the gap is common among MMOs, and it seems GW2 is no different, I was hoping it would be.

And no, Im not looking for an "I win" button.... lol

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by Saxx0n

Originally posted by Adalwulff

You have to be carefull talking about melee classes, because even the mages can use melee.

I dont know too much about the mages, but playing a warrior was difficult against ranged. Sure I did a lot of damage, and I have snares and stuff, but closing the gap so I could hit the guy, was very tough.

I think at later levels the warrior gets some kind of "rush your oppenant" , that would be nice if he did.

There are many rush your opponent skills right from the start.

 

 

You like them one-liners dont ya, do bad there wrong.

The warrior has one skill, rush, with the greatsword, but it sucks because you can easily be stopped. That is the ONLY skill of its type.

So where are these "many" skills you are talking about?

ok so I not sure how to link skills but I used the gw2 calculator and found Rush (greatsword skill)Bull Charge (utility)Stomp has 240 range(utility) and if you choose Rampage as your elite it gives you in juggernaut form 2 more skills called Dash and Stomp also if you change weapons for example to sword you can get savage leap in main hand and shield bash with off hand. each of these our ranged charges if you chose not to use a rifle or longbow.

Originally posted by mightyjoxer

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by Saxx0n

Originally posted by Adalwulff

You have to be carefull talking about melee classes, because even the mages can use melee.

I dont know too much about the mages, but playing a warrior was difficult against ranged. Sure I did a lot of damage, and I have snares and stuff, but closing the gap so I could hit the guy, was very tough.

I think at later levels the warrior gets some kind of "rush your oppenant" , that would be nice if he did.

There are many rush your opponent skills right from the start.

 

 

You like them one-liners dont ya, do bad there wrong.

The warrior has one skill, rush, with the greatsword, but it sucks because you can easily be stopped. That is the ONLY skill of its type.

So where are these "many" skills you are talking about?

ok so I not sure how to link skills but I used the gw2 calculator and found Rush (greatsword skill)Bull Charge (utility)Stomp has 240 range(utility) and if you choose Rampage as your elite it gives you in juggernaut form 2 more skills called Dash and Stomp also if you change weapons for example to sword you can get savage leap in main hand and shield bash with off hand. each of these our ranged charges if you chose not to use a rifle or longbow.

Ya I found that too, its a bit restrictive in gameplay, but your right it is do-able. I noticed the warrior does have many CC types skills, but they are close range, so you still have to get in close.

Maybe I could carry more weapons with me, and switch them when out of combat, like the rifle, then I could have a few more options.

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by Saxx0n

Originally posted by Adalwulff

You have to be carefull talking about melee classes, because even the mages can use melee.

I dont know too much about the mages, but playing a warrior was difficult against ranged. Sure I did a lot of damage, and I have snares and stuff, but closing the gap so I could hit the guy, was very tough.

I think at later levels the warrior gets some kind of "rush your oppenant" , that would be nice if he did.

There are many rush your opponent skills right from the start.

 

 

You like them one-liners dont ya, do bad there wrong.

The warrior has one skill, rush, with the greatsword, but it sucks because you can easily be stopped. That is the ONLY skill of its type.

So where are these "many" skills you are talking about?

Whirlwind Attack

Rush

Charge

Savage Leap

Bull's Charge

There are also various snares and movement speed debuffs, but you just asked for the "rush" type skills.

Originally posted by Gorudu

I hear a lot of people complain about melee classes being too squishy, making it so melee isn't a viable option in WvWvW. I heard the melee damage trumphs ranged, however, making it so when a melee class makes it into battle, he does his share of damage? Then I see classes like the guardian throwing down healing spells and walls that stop ranged damage. I also see guardians placing down speed buffs. This leads me to think that people who try and melee aren't coordinating things with other classes (which was a fundemental part of the game design, I think...).

An example of the coordination I'm talking about is placing that wall that stops ranged halfway between you and the ranged classes, grouping up melee classes, then placing that speed buff circle right after the wall so melee can make it in... or something.

So what do you guys think who've played the game? Can melee be viable if they have protection spells that boost them to the heat of battle? Or do you think ranged still has a massive advantage in that they can outrun and kite melee while shooting their weapons back?

Oh god, when will the melee threads end!?!

Since this is about WvW specifically, I'll address this. However, this issue has been done to death, just fyi.

You are correct in that Melee does more damage than ranged. However, that is NOT the only advantage to playing a melee build. You also have more control as a melee character. You do get more survivability skills, you also tend to have more CC depending on the weapon. Keep in mind this is a weapon based game, so just being 'melee' doesn't really mean much unless you are using the correct weapon for the situation. That said:

In WvW, as with the rest of the game, ranged is easier to play, as in it requires less situational awareness & coordination. Every class can also switch to a ranged weapon, so this isn't really an issue. It's easier, but not necessarily better. There are pleanty of situations & tricks for melee to get into range. You can pull people off the keep walls, you can do a part speed boost (basically a group charge) and just plow into the enemy to catch them on the run. You can try and infiltrate the keep walls, and flank the defenders on the walls (i have done this, and people do not expect it. You will clean house).

However, all of these tactics can be used incorrectly, resulting in an embarassing defeat. That's the key to this game a lot of people aren't getting. It's strategic & tactical. If you decide to lead a charge, but the enemy has stopped and has backup / siege support, you are going to die. You need to charge at the right times, and it's something that takes experience to figure out. Furthermore, if you try and flank the walls, but you are obvious about it, people will see you coming, and you will die. You need to play smarter if you want to be a melee. You can't just run in leeroy style and expect to faceroll everything. You need to be smart about it.

Originally posted by Sixpax

This ^

People need to get out of the mindset that certain professions are melee (or close combat) and others are ranged.  Every profession can do both.  It's up to you to learn when to use each to be most effective.

Well, kinda. Guardians ranged combat ain't exactly great and both Ele and engineer do better in ranged combat.

But you are basically right, most classes do both close to equal.

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Ya I found that too, its a bit restrictive in gameplay, but your right it is do-able. I noticed the warrior does have many CC types skills, but they are close range, so you still have to get in close.

Maybe I could carry more weapons with me, and switch them when out of combat, like the rifle, then I could have a few more options.

If you want a basic build for WvW, here goes. This is what I used early on, and works until you are a high enough lvl to get more utility slots and really start fleshing out your character.

sword + warhorn :: greatsword :: mending :: for great justice.

If you want a little ranged pew-pew, you can swap out the greatsword for a rifle, but I would keep the warhorn. Warhorns are godlike in WvW, unless you have a friend w/ you doing the buffing. Not only is it great for travel, but it can be used both as a gap closer, and gap opener. What's even better is it works on everyone around you, meaning that you will generally have a bunch of people charging w/ you if you use it at the right times.

Keep in mind that WvW is nearly always group-oriented combat. So don't approach it with the single-player mindset. You can't charge in alone, and expect everyone to follow all the time. You need to do it w/ incentive. Try a few small pushes against enemies that over-commit / over extend. If you see that you're group is following, then continue the push. If not, get in a small burst of damage on that over-extended enemy, and charge / rush / whirlwind back to your home team before you become over-extended yourself. It's a sort of dance, and you need to familiarize yourself w/ the rhythm.