Originally posted by LordRelic

I love how people complain about them using THERE ip as they see fit.

I also love how people complain and moan like they said this is it no more after this we will no longer be making a single player tes game.   Come on get over yourself and grow up you know how you make them learn there leasson? dont buy it. Simple easy  and you dont have to drag the world down into your little hopless pit.

 Oh, I don't know.

How about the "we're making the elder scrolls mmo that the fans have always wanted."

I don't recall anyone asking them to make a generic EQ/ WoW modelled, with a dash of DAoC, MMO. 

They've already said they'll be making another single player TES game.  That's hardly the problem.

The problem is that they'll never get another chance to make a second TES mmo.  Once they alienate the magority of their fanbase, and release yet another generic MMO, they won't get to go back and do a new one.  Zenimax isn't going to give them money to make the MMO right after this one underperforms, like every other MMO that plays just like every other mmo.

I have a sneaking suspicion this title will be the next big mmorpg, and that a lot of developers are worried that the stagnant two faction model will finally, at last, die.  This will force mmorpgs to start producing 3 realm faction mmorpgs and force them to work a lot harder.

my 2 cents.

Originally posted by Comaf

I have a sneaking suspicion this title will be the next big mmorpg, and that a lot of developers are worried that the stagnant two faction model will finally, at last, die.  This will force mmorpgs to start producing 3 realm faction mmorpgs and force them to work a lot harder.

 

my 2 cents.

I really don't see this as being the next big one.   Yet it will be another game where the two-faction model, as well as the quest hub model, is finally put out of its misery. 

The only thing I want to see next is a true "neutral" or at least "non-aligned" faction system, where people can partake on both sides, or pursue their own agenda.  That sort of agenda was ripe for a TES game.  But that's another thing that this game "won't" have, which is a lot larger than what it "will"

Originally posted by Xanrn

Ah this whole situation makes me laugh.

Funny how all you Bethesda Fanbois, had no problem with this when the shoe was on the other foot.

When Bethseda took the Fallout series and changed pretty much everything for the worse, when they took away 90% of what made the games Fallout, ignored the Fallout fans, twisted the lore so bad it end up in a knot.

But no that was fine... Until it happens to your beloved game, then its bad.

This is Karma and its Justice.

Now you know how the Fallout fans felt when they sold our Game down the river.

Fallout 3 was a wonderful game.

Originally posted by Kuinn

I'm more or less a TES fan and I'm still eagerly waiting to see if this game will be fun. Dont really care about the game mechanics, I'm a lot more concerned about game systems and structure (like PvP and questing) and also if I simply enjoy playing the game overall, and if the lore is not messed up.

 

I bet you guys would be whining if isometric TES realtime strategy game would be announced, just because it does not play like Skyrim even though it has "The Elder Scrolls" in its name. What if StarCraft shooter would be released? Oh the horror for it not being a strategy game, ffs it is StarCraft so it must be a strategy game with the exact same gameplay as all the other games in the series!

 

Actually no one would whine about TES RTS game, or about SC shooter, it's just the mmorpg(.com) genre where everyone whines as soon as they even hear a rumour about something.

Sorry but you're an idiot.

Taking a game of one genre and using its universe and lore to create a game of another genre is fine.

But taking an established gameplay style with a fanbase of millions and completely altering it when creating an MMORPG version is completely pointless and a massive slap in the face to every TES fan out there.

The term "MMORPG" doesn't mean "plays like WoW". Apart from the "massively multiplayer online" and the "role playing game" part of the genre, there is no definition of what makes an MMORPG.

The definition on Wikipedia is "Massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) is a genre of role playing games in which a very large number of players interact with one another within a virtual game world."

The definition on www.dictionary.com is " abbreviation for - massive(ly) multiplayer online role-playing game: an internet-based computer game set in a virtual world, which can be played by many people at the same time, each of whom can interact with the others"

Where does it say "plays like WoW" in that definition? Where does it say "third person game with hotkeyed skills with cooldowns"? It doesn't say that. So why alter a tried and true formula so severely?

All they've managed to do is alienate millions of TES fans, old and new (from fans of Arena and Daggerfall to people whose first TES experience was Skyrim), and alienate millions of players who've tried and tested the generic World of Warcraft playstyle used in the majority of todays MMORPG's and found it uninteresting and unentertaining.

I don't want to play another third person, hotbar mashing, tab-targetted MMO. Been there, done that, don't like it. If this was any other MMORPG, I probably wouldn't even have made a single comment on a single thread on a single forum about it. Its only the fact that its an MMORPG adaption of something that I've loved since I was just a teen-ager that I even care.

This is something they can't do twice. They can't go "well we screwed up this one, lets try again." There will never be another "The Elder Scrolls Online"

Screw it up the first time, and there is no second try.

Originally posted by Xanrn

Ah this whole situation makes me laugh.

Funny how all you Bethesda Fanbois, had no problem with this when the shoe was on the other foot.

When Bethseda took the Fallout series and changed pretty much everything for the worse, when they took away 90% of what made the games Fallout, ignored the Fallout fans, twisted the lore so bad it end up in a knot.

But no that was fine... Until it happens to your beloved game, then its bad.

This is Karma and its Justice.

Now you know how the Fallout fans felt when they sold our Game down the river.

Difference is there's no stopping them from making another Fallout game in the future with traditional Fallout gameplay.

They're not going to be able to make a new "The Elder Scrolls Online" if they screw this one up. Its going to be a one time deal. If this game fails miserably, we're not going to see "The Elder Scrolls Online II" a few years after TESO servers go dark. Maybe we'll see another one in 10 or 20 years if we're lucky.

But Bethesda could start work on a new Fallout game with traditional Fallout gameplay tomorrow. Perhaps if Wasteland 2 is a commercial success, they will do that.

If Fallout 3 had been named anything but Fallout 3, and all references to "Fallout" were removed from the game, then not a single Fallout fan would've had a thing to complain about. The same goes for this MMORPG they're producing. It is only an Elder Scrolls game in name and lore.

Sorry but tipping your hat to Elder Scrolls lore whilst completely ignoring everything that makes an Elder Scrolls game isn't enough to keep the fans happy. If they aren't keeping the fans happy, who are they trying to keep happy exactly?

Originally posted by necredon

Originally posted by Kelthius

 

---

Originally posted by necredon
Nope, you don't have any details, only big general terms which can be filled in in various ways.

---

No pets- Pretty Straight forward. No Pets.
No housing- Pretty Straight forward. No houses.
Classes- Pretty Straight forward. Not skill based like the rest of TES.
 
Where am I suppose to fill in?

 

I'm replaying morrowind right now, i'm a warrior.

A warrior does sound a bit like a class now doesn't it?

=> you don't know how it will work

Since when have pets been such a big thing in ES?

and since when has PvP?

Didn't stop them shoe horning it in though.

Borked lvl/ class/ gear based PvP at that.

Their focus is all wrong IMO. I would like to see them have aim based combat, drop the PvP, and put in more social world building (and community retaining) aspects like housing.

As it is, with what it's chosen, this game WILL get compared to Archeage and WILL be found lacking.

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

From all of the negative press I've been reading over the past week or so of TESO countless times I've come across articles that simply miss the point entirely as to why TESO is a bad investment (or idea) overall as an MMO.

 

Look, the reason TESO is horrible isn't because "The Elder Scrolls" series wouldn't work well as an MMO. Quite frankly, the opposite is true from myself, and my friend's, perspective. However, the TRUE problem with TESO is that they've taken the TES franchise and gone in an ENTIRELY different direction from what TheElderScrolls series has always been about.

Really? All the complaints I've seen (and made) were precisely about how ESO was ignoring what ES has always been about, not becuase the series would work well as an mmo. It could work great as an MMO if they chose to make the effort. Going with the HERO engine and aiming for a wow-like comfort level however it's clear they are not choosing to make the effort.

Originally posted by Paradigm68

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

From all of the negative press I've been reading over the past week or so of TESO countless times I've come across articles that simply miss the point entirely as to why TESO is a bad investment (or idea) overall as an MMO.

 

Look, the reason TESO is horrible isn't because "The Elder Scrolls" series wouldn't work well as an MMO. Quite frankly, the opposite is true from myself, and my friend's, perspective. However, the TRUE problem with TESO is that they've taken the TES franchise and gone in an ENTIRELY different direction from what TheElderScrolls series has always been about.

Really? All the complaints I've seen (and made) were precisely about how ESO was ignoring what ES has always been about, not becuase the series would work well as an mmo. It could work great as an MMO if they chose to make the effort. Going with the HERO engine and aiming for a wow-like comfort level however it's clear they are not choosing to make the effort.

HERO engine has nothing to do whit the design on ESO , stop using hero engine as part of the faulth, how developers use tools is not the tool's faulth. Hero engine is being used to develop shooters,rpg's , rts, sandbox  and themepark mmo's .

the faulth in ESO is that they simply gone for a old tap-target 1-9 button smash whit classes and whitout any ES gameplay mechanics game. there is asfar known ZERO typical ES gameplay elements.  could as well call it  DragonAge online ..probaly would be a more fitting tittle :P

Originally posted by MikkelB

TES for me, has always been a climb to the top. From being a prisoner, a nobody, to the hero of that particular time. Something like that is (at the moment) impossible to recreate in a MMO, because of the simple fact that you're not alone. Combine that with other elements that are characteristic of a TES game (the exploration, the buttload of dungeons, scaling enemies, the leveling system, to be able to kill of NPC's permanently, etc.) and a MMO in the TES style is simply very hard, if not impossible to make. So why use the IP if you now that there is a strong possibility that people are going to have expectations that can't be met? That caused a lot of this bile in the past week.

Don't think for a moment that it's not possible to make a faithful multiplayer recreation of the single player Elder Scrolls experience. Sure, it might be a little different in that fact that maybe not everyone rises to be the "Champion of Cyrodiil", yet in a living breathing world, there's no reason for them to be - there would be so many more meaningful roles for players to fill, from great military leaders, to wealthy traders, to master craftsmen, or even as far as dukes or kings (perhaps even the Emporer!).

Just like in a single player game, the only thing limiting how realistic an AI character can be is the processing power behind it. So whilst they might not be able to achieve a living breathing world using the same server technology as a game like WoW, there's certainly nothing stopping them from greatly expanding the processing capabilities of their servers to enable them to create a world that lives and breaths, with realistic economies and rich culture which continues to play out even when not a single player is logged on.

Separating the servers from the AI systems means that an NPC character would most likely use less bandwidth than a player, and limiting the decision models of each AI unit would greatly reduce the processing power needed to create a convincing cast of NPC's which make the world feel much more realistic.

You have to remember: "Things are only impossible until they're not."

Originally posted by Yamota

I agree with the OP. The idea that you cannot make an open ended MMORPG similar to Skyrim is nonsense. Ultima Online was that kind of game so was Asheron's Call and SWG. So it is possible but it then it would not be catering to the WoW/ThemePark crowd, which is why it probably is not being made that away.

I agree. Look at Darkfall, as rough as it was it shows Elders scrolls can be done.

Originally posted by necredon

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by necredon

I picked it from a list and it says "warrior" on my character info screen.

thats not a class. I am sorry i didnt know you were new to RPGs and didnt know the difference between a class and a sign

 

http://www.plasticgraveyard.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Morrowind_menu.jpg

Me being new or not to RPG's isn't of any importance of what we are talking about or this topic so I really don't think that had any purpose there other then being hostile.

On top of that, you are wrong. Look at the image I posted here. Don't see it? Then look again.

You're really not helping your case here. You're further demonstrating that you don't really understand how character development in TES games, specifically Morrowind in this case, works.

The pre-made list of "classes" you are choosing from are not "classes" in the traditional sense. They're more like "builds"  set up by the developers to give players a pre-defined  starting point, based on familiar playstyles (Rogue in your case). The "class name" is arbitrary. They could have called it "Ham Sandwich". You'd be a Kajiit Ham Sandwich, with exactly the same skills.

It's better to think of them as "Builds" or "Playstyles" rather than "classes". Calling it a "class" implies a specific and limited range of abilities and skills. You have no such limitations in Morrowind. You can start off as a Rogue and decide sometime down the road you really feel like training magic instead, so you pick up some spells and start casting, playing more like a "Mage" class than a "Rogue" class, yet you're still playing the same character.

To better understand it, start a new character and create it from scratch. Think of a playstyle you'd like to try out, or maybe two normally incompatible ones you'd like to combine. Choose your major and minor skills. Now name the class something of your own choice. Bingo, you've just created a new "class" based entirely on your own choices.

Originally posted by Creslin321

The Ultima series featured non-linear gameplay, "reagent" based magic, and a high degree of world interactivity.

Ultima online feature non-linear gameplay, "reagent" based magic, and a high devree of world interactivity.

The Final Fantasy series featured unique "class" systems that often allowed the player to switch and customize roles, more traditional leveling systems, and several iconic monsters, spells, and classes.

FFXI (online) featured a unique class system that allows players to switch and customize roles, a traditional leveling system, and several iconic monsters, spells, and classes.

The Elder Scrolls series features non-linear gameplay, a skill system, "action RPG" combat, a high degree of world interactivity, and a very iconic graphical style.

ESO features a class system, traditional tab-target action-bar combat, a low degree of world interactivity, a graphical style resembling WoW, and 3 faction PvP.

 

WTF

^ This is the truth. Thank you.

Originally posted by TangentPoint

Originally posted by necredon

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by necredon

I picked it from a list and it says "warrior" on my character info screen.

thats not a class. I am sorry i didnt know you were new to RPGs and didnt know the difference between a class and a sign

 

http://www.plasticgraveyard.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Morrowind_menu.jpg

Me being new or not to RPG's isn't of any importance of what we are talking about or this topic so I really don't think that had any purpose there other then being hostile.

On top of that, you are wrong. Look at the image I posted here. Don't see it? Then look again.

You're really not helping your case here. You're further demonstrating that you don't really understand how character development in TES games, specifically Morrowind in this case, works.

The pre-made list of "classes" you are choosing from are not "classes" in the traditional sense. They're more like "builds"  set up by the developers to give players a pre-defined  starting point, based on familiar playstyles (Rogue in your case). The "class name" is arbitrary. They could have called it "Ham Sandwich". You'd be a Kajiit Ham Sandwich, with exactly the same skills.

It's better to think of them as "Builds" or "Playstyles" rather than "classes". Calling it a "class" implies a specific and limited range of abilities and skills. You have no such limitations in Morrowind. You can start off as a Rogue and decide sometime down the road you really feel like training magic instead, so you pick up some spells and start casting, playing more like a "Mage" class than a "Rogue" class, yet you're still playing the same character.

To better understand it, start a new character and create it from scratch. Think of a playstyle you'd like to try out, or maybe two normally incompatible ones you'd like to combine. Choose your major and minor skills. Now name the class something of your own choice. Bingo, you've just created a new "class" based entirely on your own choices.

 

what people tend to forget in when they debate to win is that they actually take the position they take (ironic!).

in other words, by him saying I am wrong he is explictly taking the position that in his mind Morrowind is class based.

People need to think things a few moves ahead before they decide to take the pawn.

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by TangentPoint

Originally posted by necredon

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by necredon

I picked it from a list and it says "warrior" on my character info screen.

thats not a class. I am sorry i didnt know you were new to RPGs and didnt know the difference between a class and a sign

 

http://www.plasticgraveyard.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Morrowind_menu.jpg

Me being new or not to RPG's isn't of any importance of what we are talking about or this topic so I really don't think that had any purpose there other then being hostile.

On top of that, you are wrong. Look at the image I posted here. Don't see it? Then look again.

You're really not helping your case here. You're further demonstrating that you don't really understand how character development in TES games, specifically Morrowind in this case, works.

The pre-made list of "classes" you are choosing from are not "classes" in the traditional sense. They're more like "builds"  set up by the developers to give players a pre-defined  starting point, based on familiar playstyles (Rogue in your case). The "class name" is arbitrary. They could have called it "Ham Sandwich". You'd be a Kajiit Ham Sandwich, with exactly the same skills.

It's better to think of them as "Builds" or "Playstyles" rather than "classes". Calling it a "class" implies a specific and limited range of abilities and skills. You have no such limitations in Morrowind. You can start off as a Rogue and decide sometime down the road you really feel like training magic instead, so you pick up some spells and start casting, playing more like a "Mage" class than a "Rogue" class, yet you're still playing the same character.

To better understand it, start a new character and create it from scratch. Think of a playstyle you'd like to try out, or maybe two normally incompatible ones you'd like to combine. Choose your major and minor skills. Now name the class something of your own choice. Bingo, you've just created a new "class" based entirely on your own choices.

 

what people tend to forget in when they debate to win is that they actually take the position they take (ironic!).

in other words, by him saying I am wrong he is explictly taking the position that in his mind Morrowind is class based.

People need to think things a few moves ahead before they decide to take the pawn.

You can't blame him for not playing The Elder Scrolls, to Necredon, TESO is just another MMO, to all Elder Scroll fans, its The Elder Scrolls Online.

IF he had played Morrowind he would have known that the starting Classes are just to help identify the Player Characters. Not to lock you into an specific class. Because we are playing a role, that I might start as an Warrior, whom after escaping, found my intuition for magic and decided to use magic instead of brawn. Or found that I like to stalk the shadows and become an Assassin. In Elder Scrolls this is possible, in TESO its not based on what they have stated.

TESO is truly an disappointment, I just hope that it doesn't Tarnish the ES IP.