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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Real ES fans should be happy

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45 posts found
  Chrisbox

Elite Member

Joined: 7/15/10
Posts: 1595

 
OP  5/12/12 12:43:07 AM#1

After long thought I've really come to see the good in ESO.  Many fans of the genre are complaining because of how far away from the roots the game is going in terms of gameplay for this MMO, but I am not.  Now I was immediatly hooked on the series after morrowind so your probably thinking why am I praising this game right now?  Well atleast for me,  I have a clear enough vision to see that when bringing the Elder Scrolls to the MMO genre things had to be changed.  If they kept the same combat, and same size area's, or same skills in the MMO it just wouldn't work as an MMO and would fail.  But thats why we have the non MMO versions of the game correct?  I think as fans we should be excited to see that the series is progressing into a new genre and will in turn appeal to a larger audience.  Every release Elder scrolls is setting higher standards for the next release and now that it's entering the MMO space fans of the elder scrolls world, and fans of MMO's will be able to immerse themselves in the world from a different perspective of game. 

Played-Everything
Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  MikeJT

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/28/09
Posts: 83

5/13/12 6:32:35 AM#2
Originally posted by Chrisbox

After long thought I've really come to see the good in ESO.  Many fans of the genre are complaining because of how far away from the roots the game is going in terms of gameplay for this MMO, but I am not.  Now I was immediatly hooked on the series after morrowind so your probably thinking why am I praising this game right now?  Well atleast for me,  I have a clear enough vision to see that when bringing the Elder Scrolls to the MMO genre things had to be changed.  If they kept the same combat, and same size area's, or same skills in the MMO it just wouldn't work as an MMO and would fail.  But thats why we have the non MMO versions of the game correct?  I think as fans we should be excited to see that the series is progressing into a new genre and will in turn appeal to a larger audience.  Every release Elder scrolls is setting higher standards for the next release and now that it's entering the MMO space fans of the elder scrolls world, and fans of MMO's will be able to immerse themselves in the world from a different perspective of game. 

How wouldn't it work? Why wouldn't the same combat work? You aim your cursor in the direction of the person you want to hit, and you click to attack. If you're in range and aiming at them, you hit, if you're not in range or not aiming right, you don't. The game then checks your skill with that weapon and your strength, applies that to a formula along with statistics on your weapon, then checks your opponents armor and other damage mitigating factors, and subtracts an amount of HP from your opponent. Repeat.

How is this any different from most tab target MMO's, except for the fact that you have to aim and judge distance?

As for same size areas I totally agree with you. Cyrodiil in Oblivion was far too small - you could literally run from Bruma to Leyawiin in under 30 minutes (following the roads, less if you cut cross country). That trip should take much longer (although they probably shouldn't do it full scale).

Skill wise I don't see the problem either. And which skill set are we specifically referring to? Skills in Skyrim? Skills in Oblivion? Morrowind? Daggerfall? Regardless of which we are referring to, I don't see any issues in adapting them to an MMO. Can you point out a specific skill that would be completely out of place in an MMO?

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5327

5/13/12 9:12:36 AM#3
Originally posted by Chrisbox

After long thought I've really come to see the good in ESO.  Many fans of the genre are complaining because of how far away from the roots the game is going in terms of gameplay for this MMO, but I am not.  Now I was immediatly hooked on the series after morrowind so your probably thinking why am I praising this game right now?  Well atleast for me,  I have a clear enough vision to see that when bringing the Elder Scrolls to the MMO genre things had to be changed.  If they kept the same combat, and same size area's, or same skills in the MMO it just wouldn't work as an MMO and would fail.  But thats why we have the non MMO versions of the game correct?  I think as fans we should be excited to see that the series is progressing into a new genre and will in turn appeal to a larger audience.  Every release Elder scrolls is setting higher standards for the next release and now that it's entering the MMO space fans of the elder scrolls world, and fans of MMO's will be able to immerse themselves in the world from a different perspective of game. 

The only thing good about TES Online is that it actually makes Darkfall look better.

Morrowind and Skyrim are very likely two of my top 5 favorite games and everything I have read about this new game so far are complete deal breakers to me every paying them money for it.

Correlation does not imply causation

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15693

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

5/13/12 9:34:48 AM#4
Originally posted by SEANMCAD

The only thing good about TES Online is that it actually makes Darkfall look better.

Morrowind and Skyrim are very likely two of my top 5 favorite games and everything I have read about this new game so far are complete deal breakers to me every paying them money for it.

How so? Darkfall is in no way a better game because Zenimax decided against going with FPS combat. Darkfall does not offer an Elder-Scrolls-esque experience. It's a FPS, FFA, PVP game... One that very few who try it have any desire to stick around. IF they want Darkfall 2.0 to see a different fate they had better gut Darkfall 1.0 entirely and build a different game. Even then I doubt it will be a TES experience in the least bit. You can dislike TESO all you want, but please give this Darkfall nonsense a rest.

If Darkfall is what you crave from a TES experience, by all means continue the mindless grind, and endless PVP. It sounds like you have your game, enjoy it....

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Uhwop

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1664

5/13/12 4:21:54 PM#5

Taking away freedom in a game is not a higher standard, it's the standard in MMO's today.

Millions of people are familliar with the freedom you have in an ES game, and it's never been a negative aspect of the game.  The idea that it wouldn't be good for an MMO is nonsense and entirely speculative.  There is no quality, modern MMO out there that can be used to demonstrate that a UO style MMO won't appeal to a wider audience. 

They do not need to go all out to maintan the same level of freedom available in an ES game.  Instanced housing, which is effectively what you get in the ES games, is more then feasable in an MMO today.  The ability to choose faction, without it being tide to the race you play, is doable if you don't write a storyline that forces you into a specific faction. 

I shouldn't be required to play the adventuring type.  I should be able to improve skills that allow me to be a master swordsmith, and not just a warrior with weaponsmithing as a proffesion.  You can put restrictions on the way that the ES skill progression works without resorting to a strickly class based system.  Create paths that you choose to follow that won't allow you to gimp yourself.  If you want to be a master crafter it should be a skill progession option, with the obvious outcome being that you'll be really good at crafting stuff and not so great at killing stuff.  A simplified version of Anarchy onlines skill progression would be better then the standard you are whatever class you picked at character creation system that is used in just about every MMO.

There is no balancing an MMO, and doing anything on the idea that you're attempting to achieve balance is wishful thinking. 

 

 

Not everyone is going to have the same taste in what they consider to be fun gameplay.  In the end though, you're making an ES game, it should play like one.  If you enjoyed playing the ES games, then you would enjoy playing an MMO version of one; there is no reason to deviate from the same level of quality gameplay that has been provided to us in the past.

This is why every ES fan shouldn't be happy with what it looks like ESO is going to be.  We should be demanding as much as we've gotten in the past, not settling for less.  

  MadnessRealm

Elite Member

Joined: 1/02/09
Posts: 2710

Ignorance is Bliss.

5/13/12 4:47:43 PM#6

Absolutely ridiculous thread title.

The assumption made in the title that you're not a "real" fan of the TES serie is completely stupid, but...not surprising considering all the idiocy some "real fans" often post on this forum. As for the post itself, I can assure you that, had The Elder Scrolls Online not be called as such, no one would've ever though that they would be related. That's how far away from the TES style, that TESO is. And no, your assumption that the skill system or combat would not work in an MMO is wrong. Would it require some tweaking? Yes, but allowing players to be who they are based on how they act is not revolutionnary in MMORPGs, it's been done since UO. As for the combat, Mortal Online or DarkFall may not be the best examples because of the incompetence of their developers, but it can still be done.

Just because we're "fans" of a serie, doesn't mean we should buy and support eveything they put out even if we don't like it, especially when it's done by an entirely different studio, and the Bethesda Game Studio themselves are subtly distancing themselves from TESO. (See blog and twitter)

Well I'm glad that I'm not a "real fan". At least I won't be hyped up to the point of buying yet another product that players will leave 1 month later after they realize they just bought another bad MMORPG only to drool at the announcement of yet another "next big MMORPG" few weeks later. 

------
Your daily dose of common sense since 2009!

  Southpaw.Gamer

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/25/08
Posts: 578

Full Sail University - Game Design Student

5/13/12 4:48:43 PM#7

"Real" ES fans should be PISSED

 

Enough said.

Full Sail University - Game Design

  Home15

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/05
Posts: 208

5/13/12 6:00:59 PM#8

Im pissed.

Stay away from mah Daggerfall, there pissing WoW cartoons over it the bastards D:

  Quizar1973

Novice Member

Joined: 8/27/09
Posts: 63

5/13/12 7:01:32 PM#9

If you are a true Fan of Anything...you wouldent put what your a Fan of down and ridicule it...As is Sports...If your team loses a game or even the championship would you say forget that team and never root for them again???  Any so called "Fan" of Elder Scrolls would stick by that game no matter what....Some of you people dont know what it is to be a Fan..And dont need to call yourself a fan of the Elder Scrolls...I on the other hand are a Fan of Elder Scrolls and will stay hopefull of the game no Matter what...Cause I am a Fan....

 

 

Enough Said

  Southpaw.Gamer

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/25/08
Posts: 578

Full Sail University - Game Design Student

5/13/12 7:07:10 PM#10
Originally posted by Quizar1973

If you are a true Fan of Anything...you wouldent put what your a Fan of down and ridicule it...As is Sports...If your team loses a game or even the championship would you say forget that team and never root for them again???  Any so called "Fan" of Elder Scrolls would stick by that game no matter what....Some of you people dont know what it is to be a Fan..And dont need to call yourself a fan of the Elder Scrolls...I on the other hand are a Fan of Elder Scrolls and will stay hopefull of the game no Matter what...Cause I am a Fan....

 

 

Enough Said

You sir are not a fan, a real fan would stand by what makes what they are a fan of great.  Unique.  Using sports as an argument? Really?  This is nothing like what you described.  

 

The developers tasked to create TES: Online have tossed out the window everything that makes TES... TES.  As a fan I feel no guilt for hating on something that isn't TES by design but rather only by name.  We were told to expect TES: Online.  Not reskinned ideas named TES: Online.

 

I'll stick by the single player games and Bethesda.  However I hate Bethesda right now for allowing this to happen in the first place.

Full Sail University - Game Design

  udon

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1615

5/13/12 7:10:27 PM#11
Originally posted by Chrisbox

After long thought I've really come to see the good in ESO.  Many fans of the genre are complaining because of how far away from the roots the game is going in terms of gameplay for this MMO, but I am not.  Now I was immediatly hooked on the series after morrowind so your probably thinking why am I praising this game right now?  Well atleast for me,  I have a clear enough vision to see that when bringing the Elder Scrolls to the MMO genre things had to be changed.  If they kept the same combat, and same size area's, or same skills in the MMO it just wouldn't work as an MMO and would fail.  But thats why we have the non MMO versions of the game correct?  I think as fans we should be excited to see that the series is progressing into a new genre and will in turn appeal to a larger audience.  Every release Elder scrolls is setting higher standards for the next release and now that it's entering the MMO space fans of the elder scrolls world, and fans of MMO's will be able to immerse themselves in the world from a different perspective of game. 

 

How will copying what is other mmos into ESO give players a "different perspective of game"? Wouldn't it be better to overcome the challenges that bringing the TES world to MMO's pose rather than changing that world to conform to the standard? Conforming to a standard is not how TSE games got to where they are today and I don't see how it's going to help a ESO.
  KhinRunite

Novice Member

Joined: 11/05/10
Posts: 897

5/13/12 7:13:33 PM#12

TES combat that allows the player to pause the game to drink potions or switch spells surely does not work on a MMO setting, but the realtime FPS-like mechanics can work. There are MMOs out there with realtime combat. I do not know the details of TESO skill system, but yeah if they carried it over from say Oblivion then everyone will become virtual Gods who would cap every single feat, and be jumping high up in the sky. Also it's imbalanced for a MMO setting.

I guess my only beef with the game are combat and graphics.

  Amaranthar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 2171

5/13/12 7:15:55 PM#13
Originally posted by Uhwop

Taking away freedom in a game is not a higher standard, it's the standard in MMO's today.

Millions of people are familliar with the freedom you have in an ES game, and it's never been a negative aspect of the game.  The idea that it wouldn't be good for an MMO is nonsense and entirely speculative.  There is no quality, modern MMO out there that can be used to demonstrate that a UO style MMO won't appeal to a wider audience. 

They do not need to go all out to maintan the same level of freedom available in an ES game.  Instanced housing, which is effectively what you get in the ES games, is more then feasable in an MMO today.  The ability to choose faction, without it being tide to the race you play, is doable if you don't write a storyline that forces you into a specific faction. 

I shouldn't be required to play the adventuring type.  I should be able to improve skills that allow me to be a master swordsmith, and not just a warrior with weaponsmithing as a proffesion.  You can put restrictions on the way that the ES skill progression works without resorting to a strickly class based system.  Create paths that you choose to follow that won't allow you to gimp yourself.  If you want to be a master crafter it should be a skill progession option, with the obvious outcome being that you'll be really good at crafting stuff and not so great at killing stuff.  A simplified version of Anarchy onlines skill progression would be better then the standard you are whatever class you picked at character creation system that is used in just about every MMO.

There is no balancing an MMO, and doing anything on the idea that you're attempting to achieve balance is wishful thinking. 

 

 

Not everyone is going to have the same taste in what they consider to be fun gameplay.  In the end though, you're making an ES game, it should play like one.  If you enjoyed playing the ES games, then you would enjoy playing an MMO version of one; there is no reason to deviate from the same level of quality gameplay that has been provided to us in the past.

This is why every ES fan shouldn't be happy with what it looks like ESO is going to be.  We should be demanding as much as we've gotten in the past, not settling for less.  

Very well said. I just can't believe that this obvious way to make an MMORPG, especially this one, is so blatently ignored by this entire industry. And in the face of the very obvious likes and desires of game players, in the masses. There is something really wrong with this industry.

Once upon a time....

  MadnessRealm

Elite Member

Joined: 1/02/09
Posts: 2710

Ignorance is Bliss.

5/13/12 7:16:55 PM#14
Originally posted by Bainwalker

I'll stick by the single player games and Bethesda.  However I hate Bethesda right now for allowing this to happen in the first place.

I wouldn't blame Bethesda Game Studio there. Because they are owned by Zenimax, Zenimax owns the IP so they can do whatever they want with it (sort of an example, but the Activision/Infinity Ward case is a good example). Zenimax decided to go for the quick cash grab, not BGS. As for BGS, and as I've said in my previous post, they are taking subtle steps to distance themselves from TESO/Zenimax Online Studios.

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Your daily dose of common sense since 2009!

  Drakxii

Novice Member

Joined: 10/05/08
Posts: 599

5/13/12 7:22:36 PM#15

Yeah when you convert a game from single player to an MMO you need to keep the core values not just paint an MMO with that lore.  

 

That being said the park of me that like themeparks really REALLY wants them to rename it to ANYTHING else as it sounds like a great themepark.  There is alot of things to like about, such as comboing skills, secondary progression guild, hubless quest desgin, and 3 faction large scale pvp. It all sounds great but just not elder scrolls like.   

 

To me it's like a great looking NY style pizza, but it's being sold at a great thai restaurant, something about it just seems... wrong.

I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.

  troublmaker

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/11
Posts: 340

5/13/12 7:41:14 PM#16
Originally posted by Chrisbox

After long thought I've really come to see the good in ESO.  Many fans of the genre are complaining because of how far away from the roots the game is going in terms of gameplay for this MMO, but I am not.  Now I was immediatly hooked on the series after morrowind so your probably thinking why am I praising this game right now?  Well atleast for me,  I have a clear enough vision to see that when bringing the Elder Scrolls to the MMO genre things had to be changed.  If they kept the same combat, and same size area's, or same skills in the MMO it just wouldn't work as an MMO and would fail.  But thats why we have the non MMO versions of the game correct?  I think as fans we should be excited to see that the series is progressing into a new genre and will in turn appeal to a larger audience.  Every release Elder scrolls is setting higher standards for the next release and now that it's entering the MMO space fans of the elder scrolls world, and fans of MMO's will be able to immerse themselves in the world from a different perspective of game. 

I half get what you are saying.  Imagine the reaction Warcraft 3 fans got when Blizzard said "imagine Warcraft where you only control one unit, it can level up and there is no longer a single strategist involved."  I'm sure people were losing their minds thinking it was stuipd.

But Elder Scrolls going to MMO is not the same thing as Warcraft going to an MMO.

Elder Scrolls is an RPG series.  It is converting to an MMORPG series.  That is not a big change.  It's like taking an RPG... and putting it online.

The main point of contention is that it will attract a new audience, I don't see that.  An average MMO sells something like 300K copies in its first month.  A really good one will sell around 800k.  Exceptional ones are selling in the range of 1.5-1.6M.

Skyrim in its first week sold an estimated 10M copies (7M of which were hard copies).  In their first month it eas expected they sold over 30M.  Skyrim stayed as the #1 best seller on the Steam platform for a total of five months.\

The MMORPG criteria will not attract a new audience to the franchise because it already has a hold on all of the people who would play an MMORPG.

If anything they could scare away the mllions of people who bought Skyrim.  Elder Scrolls Online will use the dreaded Hero Engine and will have all the trimmings of a standard non-groundbreaking MMO.  No one will want that.

Website: http://www.thegameguru.me / YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/users/thetroublmaker

  Quizar1973

Novice Member

Joined: 8/27/09
Posts: 63

5/14/12 12:28:46 AM#17
Originally posted by Bainwalker
Originally posted by Quizar1973

If you are a true Fan of Anything...you wouldent put what your a Fan of down and ridicule it...As is Sports...If your team loses a game or even the championship would you say forget that team and never root for them again???  Any so called "Fan" of Elder Scrolls would stick by that game no matter what....Some of you people dont know what it is to be a Fan..And dont need to call yourself a fan of the Elder Scrolls...I on the other hand are a Fan of Elder Scrolls and will stay hopefull of the game no Matter what...Cause I am a Fan....

 

 

Enough Said

You sir are not a fan, a real fan would stand by what makes what they are a fan of great.  Unique.  Using sports as an argument? Really?  This is nothing like what you described.  

 

The developers tasked to create TES: Online have tossed out the window everything that makes TES... TES.  As a fan I feel no guilt for hating on something that isn't TES by design but rather only by name.  We were told to expect TES: Online.  Not reskinned ideas named TES: Online.

 

I'll stick by the single player games and Bethesda.  However I hate Bethesda right now for allowing this to happen in the first place.

 

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Ok...You do realize the game isnt out yet right??  So what had Bethesda Allowed to happen???...Your giving up before the game is even played...You think thats being a Fan???  Now if the game comes out and people dont like it..Then Yes I see...But Downing Somthing (Even if it has the Elder Scroll name) before you even try to play it??  Im sorry..You are not a fan...

  eyeswideopen

Tipster

Joined: 5/24/09
Posts: 2503

5/14/12 12:31:05 AM#18

The real TES fans are real happy...happy to let the casual fans play the mmo to fill Zenimax's coffers to keep giving us the REAL singleplayer TES games us REAL TES fans enjoy.

-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-

  Quizar1973

Novice Member

Joined: 8/27/09
Posts: 63

5/14/12 12:43:16 AM#19

LOL...Yall are what is a one track Mind...you think somthing should stick to one road and never venture off to somwhere else...Thats Boring.....As a TRUE Fan...Ill follow Betheasda and Elder Scrolls Anywhere it wants to go...THAT A TRUE FAN...You think Dead Heads...TRUE Grateful Dead fans stopped following the band if they changed there style a little..HELLL NO..They followed that band through Fire and Brimstone..Slept on the STreets...Just to see a couple of hours of that band play there music....THATS a true Fan.   Jumping off the wagon becuase Bethesda and the Elder Scrolls change a little is NOT a TRUE FAN

  Tofke

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/26/07
Posts: 210

Sometimes I wish I was a balloon!

5/14/12 1:02:42 AM#20
Originally posted by Quizar1973

LOL...Yall are what is a one track Mind...you think somthing should stick to one road and never venture off to somwhere else...Thats Boring.....As a TRUE Fan...Ill follow Betheasda and Elder Scrolls Anywhere it wants to go...THAT A TRUE FAN...You think Dead Heads...TRUE Grateful Dead fans stopped following the band if they changed there style a little..HELLL NO..They followed that band through Fire and Brimstone..Slept on the STreets...Just to see a couple of hours of that band play there music....THATS a true Fan.   Jumping off the wagon becuase Bethesda and the Elder Scrolls change a little is NOT a TRUE FAN

A fan... Oh lord. And then they ask themselves why the industry is getting away with crap if people like that are around.

"PLEASE SIR TAKE MY MONEY, JUST DO WHAT YOU WANT CUZ I BE FANZ!1!1!1!"

Btw that example of grateful dead... I think most people here wouldn't mind a little change to fit the MMO genre, but what most people feel of this is... gratefull dead going Dj tiësto or Pitbull (Or whatever radical style change) style. Wonder how those fans would react ;)

Anywho that being said, still doubting if you're serious or a troll. :p

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