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5/12/12 8:55:10 PM#41
Originally posted by Docterchese Dear "Dr. game developer failure" making excuses for another game developer failure,
Last I checked, I didn't have to know how to develop a game to play one. That's why I pay my subscription fee, you retard. If it isn't one fanboy making excuses for the shit level of direction for this game, it's another fanboy letting us all know that since we didn't make a shitty game ourselves after 9 years, then we should shut the fuck up. When you start paying my way, then you can tell me how to feel.
One more thing Doctornumbnuts, how is it YOU know more about the PR situation than anyone else? I guess some of us customers deserve to know more about what is going on than others. Are some of us more equal than others?
Get off your high horse and stop acting like some negative posts in this forum is derailing this game. The developer is doing a bang up job already in that department. So fuck off yourself.
Oops...I almost forgot the :) <---that makes my whole post nice now. |
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5/12/12 9:05:47 PM#42
Docterchese,
The biggest truth is this, and you can't argue this. Nine years he invested, and how many premium members are there after NINE years of work? 2000?
2000 players?
For nine years and only 2000 players, that's terrible. Minecraft has existed for only 2-4 years and has over a million. So clearly Rolf has done bad somewhere along the line. |
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5/12/12 9:22:06 PM#43
Originally posted by Maxipad I do IT for a living and although I haven't ever made my own game I can imagine the *insane* amount effort Rolf has had to put into that game, as well as the others that work on it as I know there are a 'few' of them. What you need to remember is that you need to line up your expectations with facts from reality. You can't demand the same service from the guys running Wurm as you would expect from a bigger mmo like Aion, TSW or WoW to name a few. Yes you might pay a similar sum of money but there are several reason why that isn't necessarily the case Economies of scale springs to mind first of all. I thoroughly recommend you read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economies_of_scale This can be one of the main reasons why smaller companies can struggle when going up against larger rivals when trying to give the same level of service. Of course the reasons specifically will vary from one product to the next but the bigger company can generally get better deals when it comes to labour/staffing and bulk purchases as well as having more financial power when it comes to things like borrowing money and other investments. By contrast the smaller companies tend to be more customer experience focused and can be more flexible in changing business practice to match the needs of their customers. Don't get me wrong, It's terrible that this happened at all but you need to understand and be more thoughtfull for the guys who are running the game and understand that even though you feel entitled to a better service or 'as good as the service provided by x' doesn't mean that the company can actually provide that level of service to you even if they wanted. I see this kind of stuff on a daily basis since in my job role as we get a lot of people passed our way by the biggest ISP in the UK and the level of service and help a lot of these people need just can't be done by the ISP's technical helpdesk in any reasonable way. That in itself one of the major reasons the department I work for even exists to begin with. |
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5/12/12 9:24:37 PM#44
Originally posted by Brigander There's so much wrong with this statement that I don't think I can even bring myself to try refute it properly :/ If you seriously think this then I feel sorry for you. Popularity is not a measure of anythings worth in itself. |
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5/12/12 11:58:54 PM#45
Originally posted by Zezda
Uh sure it is, popularity is a fine way to judge a game. People don't stick around and play bad games, they don't endlessly invest hours of game time, monthly fees, and labor into a game they consider bad. Do you? Well.. after reading your post I suppose you may be that dumb, so don't answer that please. The problem is you don't want to refute it because you know I'll stomp you in an argument regarding it, but here I'll stomp you anyway. Is World of Warcraft a good game? That's debatable, see that is what is considered a personal opinion and taste. A person may or may not enjoy the style, level system, graphics, quests, expansions, or various other content WoW has, but that is up to a player. So, the same applies to Wurm Online - is it a good game? Again, that is up to the player, some like it, and some don't.
What I am questioning is called success. See, Zezda, a company must make money to power itself. Do you think World of Warcraft could run if it had 2000 players? No of course not, there would be no budget for artists, GMs, developers, and their whole entire team. Success is determined by one variable - profit. There is a difference between a good game, and a successful game. Now I don't know if these terms are foreign to you, but I'm trying my best to make this easy so even a third grader (or someone of a third grade level education) can understand, so I am hoping this helps. If a game has existed nine years, and it's peek subscriptions is around 2000-3000. It's not successful. That doesn't mean it's a bad game, but popularity is a measurement, if not the only, measurement of success. It's a contradiction in itself to say, "This game is unsuccessful and has millions of players!" That makes no sense, it's a paradox, you can not have a million players and be unsuccessful.
So yes, I am serious. I think there's a huge issue if you've been developing and working on a game for NINE years, and you've only accumulated 2 employees and 2000-3000 players. Hundreds of games were created by one-person or indie teams in the course of less than NINE years and had far far far far better success - the most obvious being Minecraft. It's proof that Wurm Online lacks something, and that it's development team is doing something wrong with such a slow incline in a playerbase.
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5/13/12 12:53:26 AM#46
This coming from a troll who is impersonating a real player from the game! These guys are a fine example of Mongol pride...
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5/13/12 12:59:32 AM#47
Wow man…just wow.
What is with all the incivility? State your case with reason as best you can while continuing the debate. I have concerns, and I will state my case and move on. In retrospect I wish I had not posted in this public forum at all. Frustration got the best of me pure and simple. But we were pushed off into this venue so here we are.
Now with some of the content in this thread in mind I want to address the game play itself. Putting aside some communication improvements that are drastically needed from my perspective, the playability of the game is not a 1 out of 10, it is not terrible by a long shot. It is an awesome game in which I have enjoyed many hours. I lasted two months in a recent AAA game before being bored to tears. The story, the story! Well when you finish a good book you put it down and move on. This game however, along with the overall community, has been an amazing adventure. Does it need improvements? Absolutely! Can it better serve its player base? Without a doubt! But so can every other game in the market. Having said that Trion with Rift is about the best I have ever seen. But I understand our game does not have that kind of staff NOR the restrictive nature of investors to squelch the creativity potential of the game. In this instance, and in my opinion, the response was just not adequate so I called it as I see it and hope for the best.
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5/13/12 3:05:11 AM#48
Zezda, I can't even fathom what economies of scale have to do with any of this. I doubt seriously that Rolf cares enough to learn a single thing about business, and it shows clearly in day to day operations. You are talking about a game that has no documentation, no roadmap for development, no marketing, over moderated game and forums, player-run support structure only, and a total lack of commitment from the developer. This guy literally has no clue what his own game is about or even how to play it. 9 years of development and you get what he have today. That's sad. And that has nothing to do with the scale of this game with respect to it's market.
Do you actually consider what is happening now to be an example of a company that is going to expand? Is anything that is happening right now considered an efficient example of how to grow a product? Wurm could likely last another 9 years in this very same state and a lot of you tards would be right there handing over the funds to pay for it. And as long as that happens, Rolf will continue to offer the same shit service. Facing facts is hard for gamers, but the simple fact is that this game, and developer, have been passed up by time and success. It is stuck in a rut of complacency, where the community enables a fat lazy Swede to sit on his ass and announce that he's bought a new mouse pad, while his game and company are compromised.
I'm not sure what world you live in where this business practice is normal. I will rest comfortably knowing that world is not based on reality in any way. |
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5/13/12 3:23:51 AM#49
Originally posted by Brigander I just quoted your whole post because it really just shows you are nothing more than a dumb troll. Did someone steal your candy bar? I think people figured out you don't like Rolf or this game much, why do you even spend time on these forums? I think Minecraft looks like the biggest pile of crap on earth but I haven't even glanced at the forums. Whats your agenda here? Trying to reduce Wurms player count by a few? The average Wurm player has enough intellect to recognise the dumb trolls here who got banned from Wurm and decided to dedicate the rest of their pathetic lives to trying to ruin the game for everyone else. Using this forum for a week or two probably will lose a few prospective new players but it doesn't matter much in the long run, sorry to burst your bubble there. You just keep up your effort by trolling here and spending lots of energy on hating, and I'll just sit back and enjoy watching all the steady progress and constantly rising premium player graph and laugh at your puny effort. Have a nice day. |
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5/13/12 8:00:26 AM#50
Originally posted by Maxipad Econmies of scale is serving as an example of some of the business practices larger companies can employ to squeeze in extra facilities, staff or whatever else they need in order to provide a better experience while running at less cost per unit than previously. Not every business is in a position to leverage that kind of practice and MMO developers tend to run into this kind of problem quite a lot when they are just starting out I would imagine based on what I've seen. Obviously Rolf doesn't know shit about running a businses compared to some people, that's because he's making a game first and foremost. I also never mentioned anything about Wurm expanding and you know as well as I do his game is destined to fullfill a very small niche regardless of what happens due to the kind of game it is, period. It doesn't matter if he spent 30 years making it, it still wouldn't get a mass audience because it isn't that kind of game. The line of reasoning that you obviously can't expect the same level of service simply because you pay the same amount of money seems lost on you, fair enough. |
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5/13/12 8:04:45 AM#51
Originally posted by cs74la Yup, they're up, although some people, like me, have had trouble relogging. My suggestion do what i do. Go to your wurm folder, delete the packs folder, then go to the website, click play now, to get the stable client again, let it down load. It took me like 5 attepmts before it actually started downloading, but it did... Apparently the clearing up of the infected sites has had some reprecutions on the game servers as well.
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5/13/12 4:08:38 PM#52
I am actually not going to attempt to reply to anything anybody said back to me. Despite my efforts there appears to be no way for me to connect with the multiple peni posting here, so instead here is is a panda:
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5/13/12 10:29:18 PM#53
TONY GREEN PANDA CHEESE! Darthryan |
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5/14/12 2:01:15 PM#54
Originally posted by Ryan25251 *chese ;) |
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5/14/12 3:46:56 PM#55
Zezda, you are still using examples that have no bearing on the subject we are talking about. This is a small game, with a small staff. If you want to compare it to something I would say a mom and pop hardware store is more like it. A place where you'd get a personal level of attention from the owner, especially when you have some concerns with product. Instead we get a blank stare back from behind the counter when we have concerns. |
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5/14/12 3:49:30 PM#56
Doctorchese, I image you flailing those arms around after seeing your response of a panda picture. You must look cute in your futility costume. |
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5/14/12 3:53:21 PM#57
Originally posted by Maxipad I didn't say you didn't get a blank stare..... I'm talking about expectations and the level of expectation some people feel entitled to, which is very relevant to the discussion. |
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5/14/12 4:21:13 PM#58
How little should people expect after 9+ years of development?
It seems that some would have the paying customer just STFU and be happy that we have the privlege of paying for a game that is crappy simply because it has a small dev team. Well, I've voted with my pocketbook and I will not be giving any more money to this game. And now I am here on an independent forum removed from the official game to voice my opinion, and possibly save other people the hassle of trying out this game. It's honestly not even worth the free trial. |
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5/14/12 4:26:03 PM#59
Originally posted by Brigander You, literally, have no idea what you are talking about. How do you know if the amount of subs the game has is burning a hole in Rolf's pocket or not? Do you even know how deep his pockets are to begin with? The game isn't popular compared to what? Other sandbox games that let you alter terrain and have deeds for land and place buildings whereever you like? Games like Xyson? (It's probably the most similar game to Wurm and it obviously has a *huge* player base, doesn't it?) Justin Beiber is one of the most popular artists of all time, that doesn't mean *anything* in itself and seeing as you don't have all the facts and also aren't even comparing the game to anything else properly you aren't in a very good position to argue let alone 'prove' anything. |
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5/14/12 6:26:55 PM#60
Unfortunately, this debacle also is forcing me to decide whether I stay or go. I have a good 30 worth of silver in the account but security I take seriously. The fact that the dev seems to be taking this all lightly and worst of all blaming his issues on PHP make me question why I would stay on the game. He really needs to get rid of that nonchalant attitude. It has been days now since an attack and there have been no further details. I understand he is small but I won't even start the client until I get some confirmation that everything is fine more than just a one line statement with no evidence behind it. I can't take the chance of compromising my own computer and my cc information with no details of what remedy has been made to the system other than we stopped PHP. I don't feel comfortable logging in at all right now and will continue not to until my sub expires in a few weeks. If they can't offer something with better information and what will be done to combat the next attack, I have no reason to resub. I don't care about the silver I'll leave there if the reward is my security.
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