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  xposeidon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 393

What is "real"? How do you define "real"?

 
OP  5/12/12 5:42:25 PM#1

 

The PvP MMORPG I want.
 
While I do appreciate PvE and games like GW2 with their co op ideas some can't deny that Open World PvP can be thrilling if there's a meaning to it. And since GW2 seems like it's going to be taking that other market, it would be wise for a developer to make a game that has a focus on Open World PvP
 
A hardcore Open World PvP game is what some of us want, brutal, unforgiving, thrilling, meaningful. I want an MMO where dying has its penalties and PKing has a reason to it. It’s hard to make a good Open World PvP game that is mixed with PvE. But damn it there has to be a way!
 
Here’s a list of what I want in an Open World PvP
 
  • Open Raid Zones. Back to the old school days where your raid could be invaded by other players and battles would break out for a boss.
  • Chest on death. Whether it’s while fighting a player or a mob, your chest will drop, of course the penalty will differ from a mob than a player, say drop half the gold in your bag if killed by a mob, drop all gold if killed by a player. Maybe lose 1 item everytime you die and we are on to something… Chests can be looted by anyone, but if killed by a mob you have to go back and get it.
  • Kill mobs for your skills. Screw learning skills by leveling, you have to hunt a mob with a % chance of dropping a rune depending on rarity, also some stronger spells will need reagents to be used which are drops from mobs, another reason to go out on this cruel world.
  • Make guilds vs guilds battles worth something, allow a guild to purchase a base or castles to grow resources which are bought with gold. These resources allow for some special items. But a guild hall could be sieged and if not defended in two hours, it’s taken over and all resources, items, gold in the guild are for the new owners of the hall to keep.
  • Allow guild ranks with different levels that must be assigned depending on guild size, these ranks will be displayed on players and killing someone of higher rank in a guild gives more point in GvG fights.
  • Allow a player search, if a player killed you, you want revenge of course. Allow them to be added in the enemies list which displays their current location. Also you can search players in your area to see who’s around and who to watch for, if a person is killed in the area it should be displayed on chat. Top PvPers should be feared.
  • No channels, just one world.
  • If a player kills you, you lose exp according to your level and the player that kills you gains that experience, this way leveling up by open world pvp is a possibility. Of course if you are an outlaw, penalties will be higher, for example you might drop double the exp, etc.
  • Bounties, I’d love this, if you can’t beat them, bounty them. You can put a price on their head for gold or whatever currency there is, and if attacked they have a chance to drop part of the prize or full prize on their chest, making the hunt far more interesting! 
Of course this could be a griefers gankers dream, and things should be done to balance that, here’s just some ideas to prevent this.
  • Level scaling, an idea taken from GW2, if a player goes to a lower levels zone he’ll be scaled down, to prevent ganking the noobs in the area, this allows for some skill required in PvP, again items and skills will be kept but you will be put on an even field
  • A dodge mechanic will be a most, such as in Tera or GW2, gone are the days when you will stand still and spam keys.
  • Balance balance balance, the game should be built on the PvP idea, not the PvE with PvP to the side. Classes should not have a distinct advantage over the others. A good combat system is a must, fluid and responsive. I'd love Tera if it had this type of PvP in it, unfortunately PvP in Tera is close to meaningless.
  • There should be few safe zones in outposts and some cities.
  • Along with this there should be battlegrounds and objective based arenas.
 
Now go make this niche game!
 
Just some ideas with lots of flaws in it, this not meant for PvE players. But PvP players… what would you like in your perfect Open World PvP game?

Remember... all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.

  Chrisbox

Elite Member

Joined: 7/15/10
Posts: 1502

5/12/12 5:45:46 PM#2

Someone please make this game. ^

Played-Everything
Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  Jakdstripper

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/10
Posts: 2108

5/12/12 6:04:23 PM#3
Originally posted by xposeidon

 

 
  • If a player kills you, you lose exp according to your level and the player that kills you gains that experience, this way leveling up by open world pvp is a possibility. Of course if you are an outlaw, penalties will be higher, for example you might drop double the exp, etc.

this is the worst idea ever. in a open world, full loot, ffa game where pvp is never even numbered, or fair, and it's pretty much inflicted appon you wether you like it or not, appon death you are going to loose all your shit and ALSO lose levels?

 

i dont think so.

at least in a full loot mmo you can choose to risk losing gear/weappon by either equipping it or not, but levels? you can't really stop people from continuously kill you and send you bakc to level 1.

nobody will play this. already, full loot by it'self scares off  90% of mmo players. i actually enjoy full loot mmos myself, but the thought of losing xp, on top of gear and loot, every time i get killed by zergs of enemies that surprise me while farming it's just too much.

  GroovyFlower

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/11
Posts: 1252

Skyrim

5/12/12 6:08:32 PM#4

Why your not playing Darkfall then its most what you want maybe bit to hardcore for you but i should give it a try with free trial.

Darkfall have btw no restrictions or penaltys as you mentioned thats exclusive for games like WoW.

One huge open world no instance or loadscreens no limitations or invisble barriers.

And  beautiful world to explore. It kind of reminds me of Elder Scrolls but then with hardcore pvp and you can build alot towns ships ext.

Battlegrounds/arena's don't belong in open pvp worlds with full loot.

  xposeidon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 393

What is "real"? How do you define "real"?

 
OP  5/12/12 6:18:16 PM#5

@ Jak - Well like I said just what I'd like, I'm sure many wouldn't like it but... I was thinking of minimal experience not like a whole level, that would be pretty bad. Or an experience checkpoint where you couldn't get lower experience than that to prevent deleveling. And if it doesn't work out then PKers may get exp by killing a player but not steal exp? There's many options keep an open mind

@ Groove - Darkfall sounds good unfortunately I'm not sure how it is on the whole stand and spam skills, any sort of strategy in it besides skill rotation?

Also try to post about what you like or would like in OWPvP not on how my ideas are extremely flawed and wouldn't work, I'm not making an MMO... as for the moment.

Remember... all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.

  Larsa

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/04
Posts: 992

5/12/12 6:26:21 PM#6
Originally posted by xposeidon

 

The PvP MMORPG I want.
 
...
 
A hardcore Open World PvP game is what some of us want, brutal, unforgiving, thrilling, meaningful. ...

 

Play Haven & Hearth. It's "brutal, unforgiving, thrilling, meaningful" and when you get killed you're dead. Yeah, you lose xp when you get killed, to be precise you lose all xp you have, because your character is dead, permanent, roll a new one.

And please don't use the word "hardcore" again before you survived in Haven & Hearth for half a year or so. :)

I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.

  GroovyFlower

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/11
Posts: 1252

Skyrim

5/12/12 6:31:43 PM#7

What i want is Asherons call 1 Darktide server free for all full loot skill based no lvls or xp so far same as Darkfall.

Darkfall world and i mean a huge open world no loadscreens world of Darkfall Agon looks bit like Asherons call 2/Elder Scroll like.

But i want no safezones like in Darkfall with idiotic laser towers i want a full RED server where players make up the politics like ANTI vs RPK and in case of Darkfall racewars instead of ALL BIG LOVING FAMILY ALL RACE CLAN i hated that that mahirim joined humans or elfs BAH:(

Im also for hardcore investment no insta uberness or fast traveling. Also i hated teh alignment system in Darkfall with stupid towers.

If it would have been cheat free well almost its not 100% posisble to be cheat free but in case with Darkfall afk macroing exploiting hacking game would have been awesome, devs also made fatal mistake to split up community to early gave US players there own server that was the death sentence for Darkfall among some others things like the long grind while many started to cheat from day one.

Thats what i want players make the game devs make the world and tools thats all players deside how to play it FREEDOM is the key.

Ive played 2 years and 3 months Darkfall stopped becouse logged into game and maybe 100 people ingame and 75 macroing in there clantowns so i quit. I followed Darkfall from 2003 up to 2009 got into beta and started at launch but it was never realy what i hoped it would be first 3 months was cheating and one big zerg terible:(

 

Oh forgot to mention ive played for most part solo majority over years always claimed it was not a solofriendly game but ive manage very well i still had friends in clans who helped me from time to time. That was also one of reason why some did not played Darkfall becouse they though it was not solo friendly while it maybe was hard but it was posible. Darkfall had so many things you could do like crafting was in my opinion amazing i could make most of my own gear and mounts even small ship.

 

  Jakdstripper

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/10
Posts: 2108

5/12/12 6:34:58 PM#8

i'd like to know exactly what ffa, full loot, open world pvp game you have played Xposeiden?

 

 

  Kelthius

Novice Member

Joined: 6/14/10
Posts: 308

5/12/12 6:40:33 PM#9
Originally posted by xposeidon

Along with this there should be battlegrounds and objective based arenas.

You had me up until this. If we've learned anything from WoW, it's that BGs ruin world PvP. 

  GroovyFlower

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/11
Posts: 1252

Skyrim

5/12/12 6:41:11 PM#10
Originally posted by Larsa
Originally posted by xposeidon

 

The PvP MMORPG I want.
 
...
 
A hardcore Open World PvP game is what some of us want, brutal, unforgiving, thrilling, meaningful. ...

 

Play Haven & Hearth. It's "brutal, unforgiving, thrilling, meaningful" and when you get killed you're dead. Yeah, you lose xp when you get killed, to be precise you lose all xp you have, because your character is dead, permanent, roll a new one.

And please don't use the word "hardcore" again before you survived in Haven & Hearth for half a year or so. :)

All tho i like the idea but if i look at the graphics sorry i can't bring myself going back to 80's graphics.

Its easy losing simple pixels no real attachment with your character hehe.

  Vidir

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/14/04
Posts: 966

5/12/12 6:45:58 PM#11
Originally posted by xposeidon

 

The PvP MMORPG I want.
 
While I do appreciate PvE and games like GW2 with their co op ideas some can't deny that Open World PvP can be thrilling if there's a meaning to it. And since GW2 seems like it's going to be taking that other market, it would be wise for a developer to make a game that has a focus on Open World PvP
 
A hardcore Open World PvP game is what some of us want, brutal, unforgiving, thrilling, meaningful. I want an MMO where dying has its penalties and PKing has a reason to it. It’s hard to make a good Open World PvP game that is mixed with PvE. But damn it there has to be a way!
 
Here’s a list of what I want in an Open World PvP
 
  • Open Raid Zones. Back to the old school days where your raid could be invaded by other players and battles would break out for a boss.
  • Chest on death. Whether it’s while fighting a player or a mob, your chest will drop, of course the penalty will differ from a mob than a player, say drop half the gold in your bag if killed by a mob, drop all gold if killed by a player. Maybe lose 1 item everytime you die and we are on to something… Chests can be looted by anyone, but if killed by a mob you have to go back and get it.
  • Kill mobs for your skills. Screw learning skills by leveling, you have to hunt a mob with a % chance of dropping a rune depending on rarity, also some stronger spells will need reagents to be used which are drops from mobs, another reason to go out on this cruel world.
  • Make guilds vs guilds battles worth something, allow a guild to purchase a base or castles to grow resources which are bought with gold. These resources allow for some special items. But a guild hall could be sieged and if not defended in two hours, it’s taken over and all resources, items, gold in the guild are for the new owners of the hall to keep.
  • Allow guild ranks with different levels that must be assigned depending on guild size, these ranks will be displayed on players and killing someone of higher rank in a guild gives more point in GvG fights.
  • Allow a player search, if a player killed you, you want revenge of course. Allow them to be added in the enemies list which displays their current location. Also you can search players in your area to see who’s around and who to watch for, if a person is killed in the area it should be displayed on chat. Top PvPers should be feared.
  • No channels, just one world.
  • If a player kills you, you lose exp according to your level and the player that kills you gains that experience, this way leveling up by open world pvp is a possibility. Of course if you are an outlaw, penalties will be higher, for example you might drop double the exp, etc.
  • Bounties, I’d love this, if you can’t beat them, bounty them. You can put a price on their head for gold or whatever currency there is, and if attacked they have a chance to drop part of the prize or full prize on their chest, making the hunt far more interesting! 
Of course this could be a griefers gankers dream, and things should be done to balance that, here’s just some ideas to prevent this.
  • Level scaling, an idea taken from GW2, if a player goes to a lower levels zone he’ll be scaled down, to prevent ganking the noobs in the area, this allows for some skill required in PvP, again items and skills will be kept but you will be put on an even field
  • A dodge mechanic will be a most, such as in Tera or GW2, gone are the days when you will stand still and spam keys.
  • Balance balance balance, the game should be built on the PvP idea, not the PvE with PvP to the side. Classes should not have a distinct advantage over the others. A good combat system is a must, fluid and responsive. I'd love Tera if it had this type of PvP in it, unfortunately PvP in Tera is close to meaningless.
  • There should be few safe zones in outposts and some cities.
  • Along with this there should be battlegrounds and objective based arenas.
 
Now go make this niche game!
 
Just some ideas with lots of flaws in it, this not meant for PvE players. But PvP players… what would you like in your perfect Open World PvP game?

 There are several open world pvp games on the market,why dont you play those in stead of complaining that not yet released game does not use that systyem?

  Larsa

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/04
Posts: 992

5/12/12 7:09:58 PM#12
Originally posted by GroovyFlower
Originally posted by Larsa
...

Play Haven & Hearth. It's "brutal, unforgiving, thrilling, meaningful" and when you get killed you're dead. Yeah, you lose xp when you get killed, to be precise you lose all xp you have, because your character is dead, permanent, roll a new one.

And please don't use the word "hardcore" again before you survived in Haven & Hearth for half a year or so. :)

All tho i like the idea but if i look at the graphics sorry i can't bring myself going back to 80's graphics.

Its easy losing simple pixels no real attachment with your character hehe.


The graphics are in isometric view, just like UO in the 90s. And you can believe me that the attachment with your character in Haven & Hearth doesn't depend on the number of pixels.

Not meaning you or the OP, but frankly, more and more I'm getting the impression that some people like to think about themselves as "hardcore" wanting "brutal, unforgiving, thrilling, meaningful" PvP when, practically, all they want is some shiny, pretty kindergarten version of it.

And some of them even dare to call me carebear! :)

I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.

  xposeidon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 393

What is "real"? How do you define "real"?

 
OP  5/12/12 7:14:51 PM#13

I used to play this niche game called Crowns of Power, it used small servers of up to 200 people, which made for a small unique community where everyone knew each other and your actions could harm your reputation. For example one guy stole an extremely rare drop from a raid boss and no guilds would take him nor want him in a raid. The game had some of the points listed above specially Guilds vs Guilds which was pretty fun, but the game was far from perfect. 

The reason why I don't try some of these games is because the combat is just stupid, I know MMOs use tab targeting, homing spells that will hit and no way to dodge them. Crowns of power had the combat right, with fast movements (I hate slow movement games like Forsaken World) responsive keys and you could actually dodge in that game which made PvP plenty of fun. Unfortunately the developing team was too small and the game closed this past february.

I just want the combat right, I wasn't able to get into other MMOs because of the above and now that there has been some innovation with the combat such as GW2 and Tera I'm interested again, it's time to evolve. Though I'm willing to try the games mentioned, on the other hand I don't really want to play something with crappy combat and outdated graphics.

 

Remember... all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.

  Larsa

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/04
Posts: 992

5/12/12 8:16:26 PM#14
Originally posted by xposeidon

 

The PvP MMORPG I want.
 
...
 
A hardcore Open World PvP game is what some of us want, brutal, unforgiving, thrilling, meaningful. I want an MMO where dying has its penalties and PKing has a reason to it. ..

I come back to this quote here, xposeidon.

I think you have to make up your mind. If you really want brutal, unforgiving PvP then you will not have much of it. In PvP games that have that sort of PvP people try to avoid PvP, exactly because it is brutal and unforgiving. Sure, PvP happens, but rather seldom and when it happens it's frequently worth a forum thread.

If you want a lot of PvP then you need to look for games where PvP is not brutal, not meaningful, not unforgiving. That are the games where people PvP frequently.

What is it? From your last post I reckon you're rather looking for a game where PvP doesn't really matter that much?

I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.

  Jakdstripper

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/10
Posts: 2108

5/12/12 8:47:15 PM#15
Originally posted by xposeidon

I used to play this niche game called Crowns of Power, it used small servers of up to 200 people, which made for a small unique community where everyone knew each other and your actions could harm your reputation. For example one guy stole an extremely rare drop from a raid boss and no guilds would take him nor want him in a raid. The game had some of the points listed above specially Guilds vs Guilds which was pretty fun, but the game was far from perfect. 

The reason why I don't try some of these games is because the combat is just stupid, I know MMOs use tab targeting, homing spells that will hit and no way to dodge them. Crowns of power had the combat right, with fast movements (I hate slow movement games like Forsaken World) responsive keys and you could actually dodge in that game which made PvP plenty of fun. Unfortunately the developing team was too small and the game closed this past february.

I just want the combat right, I wasn't able to get into other MMOs because of the above and now that there has been some innovation with the combat such as GW2 and Tera I'm interested again, it's time to evolve. Though I'm willing to try the games mentioned, on the other hand I don't really want to play something with crappy combat and outdated graphics.

 

i know nothing of Crowns of Power, but from what i've read on the Wikapidia this is not a full loot, free for all, open world pvp game. you have a choice to either participate in pvp or not. that right there is a luxury a pvp game doesnt have. you are forced to pvp. that rigth there is a feature 80% of mmo players will not touch with a 10 foot pole.

 

 

..so you dont like fps style combat. fair enough, but you still fail to understand the kind of hell that a pvp focused game can be when you have a ton of higher level greefers doing nothing all day but try to make your life miserable. that is the kind of people that play the hard core pvp games. a large majority are complete ass hats that do nothing all day but find ways to kill, greef, annoy, and piss off anyone they can any way possible.

 

i have played DF, and MO for years and i'm perfectly aware of just how incredibly frustrating a hard core pvp game can be, especially while learning and levelling. this is why when you mention additional death penalty, i say to you "it's completely unnecessary".

 

just about all the features you mention are already in those game like DF, MO, Eve, even Xsyon. a full loot, ffa, open world pvp already has an incredibly small group of niche followers, exactly because it's frustrating as hell. make it even harder and you will have to pay people to play your game.

 

so please first play a real ffa, full loot, open world game and then come back here and we can talk about adding level loss to deathe penalties.

  Konfess

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/07
Posts: 702

5/12/12 9:20:55 PM#16

The fan of this type of game expects to be at the head of the leader board. When they are not they leave the game behind. And once again demand the same game be made. This is a game of timing. To be fun the fan must be first in and at the top, it is no fun to be last in and at the bottom. This game exists as an MMORPG as Eve, Darkfall, and MU online. Closer still as a MMOFPS since 2003 as Planetside, It has 7 out 9 features listed.  If a fan of Open World PvP is still looking, they have no reason.

Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
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Mom: We don't talk to Priests.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17126

5/12/12 9:26:00 PM#17
Originally posted by xposeidon

 

, unfortunately PvP in Tera is close to meaningless.

pvp in lineage 2 was meaningless as well but we created our own meaning.

Just a thought.

Also I love everything "else" you wrote but don't believe in level scaling. It should be that a group of low level players should be able to take out a higher lvl player.

Otherwise it completley negates any reason to level. You want to stop being ganked? work hard and level and meet you opponent on his turf.

  Adalwulff

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/18/10
Posts: 1191

"I am not the light, or the darkness, but the twilight in between"

5/12/12 9:35:29 PM#18

I hate open world PvP for 2 reasons, all the asshats and the fact I cannot change the world.

Meaning, to answer your question, the only way I could stand a open world PvP is if I could actually shape the world, something like TERA and WoD.

The reason is, its a lot of work leveling in that kind of enviroment, I want something for my efforts, something big. I was really stoked about TERAs political system, but it turned out kinda weak. I was hoping TSW would give me something close to open world PvP, but it also failed.

Planetside 2 is looking to be it. You can actually control areas, which means you can almost shape the world, not what I wanted but it might be close enough.

GW2 will give me that fix for awhile, hopefully a long while!

  xposeidon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 393

What is "real"? How do you define "real"?

 
OP  5/12/12 9:53:42 PM#19

Hehe hey guys thanks for the replies. I love the MMORPG community, I make a post with just some random thrown out ideas in there and people are quick to jump on the wagon and see what they can criticize which is a nice compliment, though I love it I'm really not making a game here, but if I did that's what i would like to see on it :)

Again combat plays a huge role for me in a game, specially PvP, I love Tera and GW2 combat, along with a PvP game that resembles what I described and it would be perfect for me. 

Cheers!

 

Remember... all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.

  Jakdstripper

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/10
Posts: 2108

5/12/12 10:12:17 PM#20

it's good to be loved....and way to be a good sport and take all this constructive criticism like a man. a man with some weird mmo ideas, but still a man....:P

 

 

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