Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Originally posted by daltanious

Every good game should be only P2P. Mainly because there is no F2P, nothing is free, there is ALWAYS price to pay, sooner or later. I agree on F2P on mediocre or average games. But for serious and commited playing and enjoyment .... P2P.

Good, so you agree TESO should be F2P.

 

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If the game is worthy of a sub it will have a sub, but if its not then it will just be another failure such as AoC, Aion etc... ftp equates to failure in my eyes.

I would do a buy to play / freemium hybrid.

• Buy the box, get premium benefits (all content unlocked) and half off on cash shop items.  Sort of like VIP programs.
• Download the game free, access is limited.  Content (zones, dungeons, character slots) can be purchased as an account upgrade.  No cash shop discount.

However, I expect the game will be full subscription.  I don't expect it will go well.

Personally, I believe there is extra risk involved in going f2p, which makes that option less appealing to title such as this one. In a f2p model more players only means more income when you do it right. The risk of not doing it right does not outweigh the safety of selling boxes and asking for a monthly fee. For outsiders it is easy to invent arguments for a title to go f2p. The investment cost involved is just too high to take unnecessary risks for a title like The Elder Scrolls online. It will not and also should not go f2p for this reason alone.

Seriously Aihoshi............... nobody uses the term F2P to describe cash shop games anymore.  It is all about the P2W.   Some don't like the term, but it is here to stay, and LOL at people still calling GW2 B2P.   I can't believe players still believe that with how the cash shop for GW2 is set up.

IMHO, no real developer should ever start their game with the P2W design model.   It is essentially making a statement that they know their game is junk, and don't care about their players.  

I don't really think  we need a TES MMO.One of the reason that makes TES popular is how they let's player's create their own mod,and i doubt they can afford to do that in a mmo.Without that TES will be just another hack and slash game out there.

BUT if they DO make one;IMO , F2P is for those games that can't hold player's interest or do not offer enough to charge a 15/month fees. A famous title like TES have no reason to go F2P(aka P2W).

Given what they have spelled out I don't care which  way they go.  It is not appealing to me. I will play the "actual" Elder Scroll games and not what they are offering under the TES name for online. My opinion.

I rather them stop making Elder Scolls Online. Elder Scrolls is one of those names that just shouldn't go MMO. After SW:TOR, I'm pushing any great RPG's to not go MMO.

No games should be ftp other than fps lobby games. All other games should have the content,quality,polish,innovation, and passion behind them to require subs. Stop pushing ftp and ptw crap,kkthx.

Originally posted by GrumpyMel2

Originally posted by Lavec

Originally posted by GrumpyMel2

Here is the deal....

F2P model: You have 20 people who pay on average $1 per month (some will pay more, but balanced out with others who will pay nothing). However each user costs you $.50 per month to support. Your total proffit is (20 x 1) - (20 x .5) = $10 per month.







 

Sub Model: You have only 1 person that is willing to pay the subscription price but that person pays $15 per month fixed.  Lets assume that you have to provide a higher level of service for that player, so lets QUADRUPLE your costs and say you pay $2 per month to support each user. So your total proffit is (1 x 15) - ( 1 x 2) = $13 per month.

You tell me which one makes for the more PROFFITABLE business model? That's why F2P is NOT ALWAYS the obvious/better business model choice.

F2P is a very SEDUCTIVE model to those without much financial background, because the HUGE numbers of users sound like they give you alot of revenue potential....but that's just it, it's only POTENTIAL.

You sound like you just pulled those numbers out of thin air. One could just as easily pull different numbers out of thin air and reverse your argument.

Clearly F2P is about getting the balance right to make it profitable, not to mention the huge sale potential from a B2P model from the start. SUB model puts off a lot of buyers from the start and then the game dies and gets a bad rep making the only choice to go F2P with no purchase and it's a slow battle up hill. No SUB means massive sales from the start - GW2 is going to be a good case study here - and I think that is the future.

 

Of course I pulled the numbers from "thin air". It's the only thing one can possibly do when speculating in the generic or about service offerings of which one is not privy to the actual details involved in building, running and selling the service. It's functionaly no different then what Mr. Aihoshi is engaging in here though, since he has stated he has not been privy to any of the details of the TESO offering.

However as a person employed in technical management for an SaaS vendor (business services vertical not entertainment), I can tell you from experience that the principles are sound. In the "Free Services" model, each user of your services is a COST to you, not a source of revenue. They only become a revenue source when you CONVERT them to a sale (or find other ways to monetize them). They only become proffitable to you when you can sell them enough to more then offset the costs of supporting them.

The only thing having a huge user base does for you in the "Free Services" model is make you run out of money quicker, UNLESS you can find a way to sufficiently convert enough of those users to sales. Alot of businesses have found that out the hard way.

That's why I'm trying to make the point that there is no one clearly "BEST" revenue model for any given service offering when speaking in the generic sense. It's only when diving into the specifics that  you can start to see how things might make sense.

Sub-Model is a pretty solid revenue model since it gives you secure RECURRING revenue and you can control pricing so that you know you'll be exceeding your operating costs on each user under that model. Thus you pretty much know your going to be making an operating proffit, it's just whether your making enough of a proffit to recoup your initial development  costs in a timely fashion. There is a reason why Microsoft, Oracle and alot of the other software companies have been driving away from traditional boxed sales and towards LICENSING software and software services (SaaS )....that's essentialy the SUB based model and it can be EXTREMELY proffitable over the long run if you can produce a quality service and operate it efficiently. It can even be more proffitable then "Free Service" equivalents with much larger user bases.

Thing is, each revenue model has it's strong and weak points, and each one can be made to work under the right conditions. But just because alot of people have been falling all over themselves hyping the F2P model, doesn't neccesarly mean it's going to be the best or even a workable model in any given circumstance.

Note, one thing I've observed some Sub-Based models do to overcome some of the initial hesitation of purchasing is to GIVE away thier clients for FREE and then just charge the user as they are using the service. Thus there is no real financial commitment involved....you pay your $10-$15 for a month and see how you like it. The average person isn't going to be too put off by an initial outlay that is no more then what it would cost them to order lunch at McDonalds, if they think the product might have some interest for them. Frankly at that stage, unless you are a kid, most peoples TIME investment in installing and checking out the product is more of a factor then that sort of small financial outlay.

 

I would vote for B2P but its a cash-grab so itll be P2P.

In my opinion if it doesn't launch F2P it is going to flop. From what I have read it sounds like they are going completely away from what Elder Scrolls was as an RPG game and basically turning it into a Themepark WoW clone with 3 faction PvP....

It is really sad that they would bastardize the franchise with a themepark game :-/

In my opinion if it doesn't launch F2P it is going to flop. From what I have read it sounds like they are going completely away from what Elder Scrolls was as an RPG game and basically turning it into a Themepark WoW clone with 3 faction PvP....

It is really sad that they would bastardize the franchise with a themepark game :-/