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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Headline: Elder Scrolls Online - The most negatively received "reveal" in MMORPG history

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291 posts found
  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5327

5/10/12 3:42:41 PM#281
Originally posted by ShakyMo
So why are you bothered then,stick to playing skyrim until tes6 comes out and let the rest of us who want to get on with playing the "cartoon" version.

P.s. I remember you banging on about tsw gaming "wow clone" crafting, your prediction didn't quite turn out right then either did it when people in beta kept telling you like minecraft meets uo.

1. this forum has a quote feature it took me awhile to be sure you were replying to me.

2. I havent been following tsw like at all because of that lack of crafting information. I just did a search and did some reading. It sounds somewhat intresting but I am still leary based on past experiences. words like 'it isn’t meant to be a full-time activity for players ' makes me curious to wonder the details of that statement. I could be wrong though but like I said, they arent focused much on it until last makes me wonder why. was that unreasonable? you seem to think so. (p.s. I just took a look at actual game play for TSW radically different then all promotional videos I noticed.)

 

Correlation does not imply causation

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/10/12 4:10:19 PM#282
1 I'm in my phone
2 no I just think you jump on a blinked bandwagon "it uses hero engine, and has a ability bar, its swtor all over again"
  severius

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/10/04
Posts: 1528

5/10/12 5:03:42 PM#283
Originally posted by Chuckanar

So why did they waste a lot of money in court getting the rights to Fallout back just to announce they will try and make a MMO out of there Elder scrolls genre. Makes no financial sense to me.

They might as well lol.  They raped, beat, and pissed all over Fallout with their bastardized take on it, and now they are bastardizing their own.  Good for them, hope it bites them right in the ass at the end of the day :)


  LifePositive

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/04
Posts: 133

5/10/12 5:29:25 PM#284

The criticism is definitely well founded. Look at Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim. 

First Person Perspective

Skill Based Progression

Active Attack, Casting, and Block

Abilities Modify Active Commands

Open World With Unguided Content

No Class, Race, or Faction Restirctions

NPC Companions

Player Property

You'll notice that, given even the limited information available about ESO, that not a single one of these defining features is being integrated into the MMO. Most of them could, many of them are features of other released or near released MMOs. The disappointed here is two fold: first, the lack of respect for the intellectual property and second, the severe lack of imagination. 

If the IP was respected, we would get an AWESOME and potentially groundbreaking game. Imagine making a character, any race and skill combination you want, and entering a world of warring factions that you could declare allegiance to or not. Imagine having authentic freedom to choose your own goals and access content without arbitrary restrictions. Imagine interacting with people who have this same kind of freedom. 

It is abundantly clear that this game is essentially WoW with three faction PvP and Elder Scrolls lore. 

On the one hand, there is nothing inherently wrong with adopting innovations of previous games. However, there are better games to emulate. The Secret World's skill progression and story telling system spring to mind. Better yet, emulate the series your damn game is based on! Or innovate. Or develop a new IP instead of abusing a loved and respected one. 

“How do you kill that which has no life?”

  SlyLoK

Elite Member

Joined: 7/04/08
Posts: 1043

5/10/12 6:44:44 PM#285
Originally posted by PyscoJuggalo
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by morlock9

Welcome to next week's headline across the gaming community.

Regardless of the state of the recently revealed game or its ability to stand on it's own as an MMO, the development team has departed significantly from the features that characterized previous Elder Scrolls games and has resulted in a backlash from the fan base.

With the leak of some detailed information on game play, many have begun to wonder if the title of Elder Scrolls Online should be replaced with something more fitting a traditional MMO "Based upon the lore of the Elder Scrolls Series".

At a time when most MMO's benifit from exciting announcments, ESO is already being heralded as a falure for lack of vision. This appears to be the most negatively received "reveal" in the history of the modern MMORPG.         
 

...and you're basing that on the responses from the boards on this website?  No surprise there, knowing that many of the lurkers here are devoted to sandbox / action games.  I don't see much if any negativity on other websites in regards to the release, with exception to MMORPG.com as usual.

On the Bethesda forum there has been PLENTY of negative respose.  Sure there are the fanbois, like you probably, but many many people simply saying "This ain't an Elder Scrolls game!"
 

Want to know why?  Because TES is a sandbox game or for the effing zealous sandboxers, a hybrid sandbox...

From what I can tell it seems like its the same handful of posters over and over again.. Much like here.

  SlyLoK

Elite Member

Joined: 7/04/08
Posts: 1043

5/10/12 7:06:09 PM#286
Originally posted by Manveru

The criticism is definitely well founded. Look at Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim. - Look at what? Oblivion and Skyrim were " dumbed down " compared to Morrowind.

First Person Perspective - There is still no certainty that there will not be a first person option. Even then FPP works well in a single player environment because everything of import is infront of you. No need to worry about any group mates or player enemies on a battlefield.

Skill Based Progression - They could have added this but there would had to been a skill cap since some balance is required in an MMO .. Cant have tank mages running around everywhere. I think a class based system ( which is there in the Single Player games except for Skyrim mind you ) is the lesser of two evils considering changes for balance purposes.

Active Attack, Casting, and Block - In an MMO lag makes a system like this nothing but a headache. Want to miss every attack and be obliterated by a mage because they dont need to aim with AE attacks?

Abilities Modify Active Commands - No idea what this even means.

Open World With Unguided Content - TESO will have a mostly open world from the looks of it.. Oblivion and Skyrim didnt have guided content because of how the critter leveling was handled. You couldnt go anywhere in Morrowind right off or else you would be slaughtered.

No Class, Race, or Faction Restirctions - We dont know if there will be any Race or Class restrictions .. Just what races are in each faction and in one of the interviews they gave valid ideas as to why each races are in each faction due to that race / groups on agenda.

NPC Companions -Party with other players perhaps? I love to solo myself but the use of companions would just turn the game into EQ2 ( and EQ1 ) where noone parties together because of their mercenaries.

Player Property - Housing would be nice but I am against open world housing as it just clutters up the landscape. A system like EQ2 would suffice.

You'll notice that, given even the limited information available about ESO, that not a single one of these defining features is being integrated into the MMO. Most of them could, many of them are features of other released or near released MMOs. The disappointed here is two fold: first, the lack of respect for the intellectual property and second, the severe lack of imagination.

I see plenty of respect being given especially to most of the lore aspects. And MMOs at their core are all alike and the sooner people realize this the better. Most of TES single player features wouldnt fit into an MMO and if you forced them in then it would just be a mess and a complete choatic environment.

If the IP was respected, we would get an AWESOME and potentially groundbreaking game. Imagine making a character, any race and skill combination you want, and entering a world of warring factions that you could declare allegiance to or not. Imagine having authentic freedom to choose your own goals and access content without arbitrary restrictions. Imagine interacting with people who have this same kind of freedom. 

We dont know yet if this game will be good or bad .. And as before any class combination just leads to headachdes balance wise especially in a game that will have a good bit of PvP. And balance trumps just about everything in that regard. I dont see any restrictions myself and we also dont know how much freedom there will be in the game yet.

It is abundantly clear that this game is essentially WoW with three faction PvP and Elder Scrolls lore.

Abundantly is it? Looks closer like a GW2 / DAoC mix to me.

On the one hand, there is nothing inherently wrong with adopting innovations of previous games. However, there are better games to emulate. The Secret World's skill progression and story telling system spring to mind. Better yet, emulate the series your damn game is based on! Or innovate. Or develop a new IP instead of abusing a loved and respected one.

TSW isnt going to be any different than any MMO before just like TESO , GW2 and even ArcheAge will be no different than any MMO before them. 

 

  iceman00

Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/05
Posts: 1367

Kevin Tierney

5/10/12 7:26:27 PM#287
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Entinerint
Originally posted by Corehaven
snip

People will be quick to assume NO WAY, but they are not thinking the way executives of a major media corporation think.

Brand is brand is brand.  You are only as good as your last project.  These two pillars will basically send TES hurtling into a problematic area. 

IF the MMO fails, which in all likelihood it will, then Zenimax may cut funding to TES VI and/or simply pushed the Fallout franchise to the forefront, not making any more TES games.

IF the MMO is successful, we might see some of the "typical MMO features" making their way into the single-player game.

Don't be so quick to dismiss the idea that TES and ESO are inextricably linked and that non-gaming executives generally don't see the subtle nuance between MMORPG and SPRPG.  They see only profit and loss.

I think there is a good chance it will just be like sims online was...'oopsy, nevermind, lets go back to what we know'

That's my prayer.  That the game ends up either never making it to launch, or dies a quiet death after release with a few vague references here or there in future ES games, maybe even a few inside jokes.  Or the best case scenario, they put off release for a considerable time and rework things.  But that ain't gonna happen.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15685

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

5/10/12 7:50:20 PM#288
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Distopia

Uhmm, I don't know, what else do you expect me to say? I have no idea why they make the decisions they do. Maybe they didn't want to make an MMO, but Zenimax made one anyway?

They wanted to make an MMO.

You are a CEO of a major corporation.

You have 2 video game subsidies.

One has a long running series of very popular games.

The other is a new group that hasnt produced jack most people know about that is being run by a guy from another MMO that is hell bent on starting another project.

You cant call that project a sequal to the game he worked on and shouldnt even want to anyway seeing as how long its been since anyone cared about the game...but you can take a product from the other seeing as how they are riding high on a new release and use its name to push the new MMO.

That is exactly what it is. TESO is going to be TES in name only because its the NAME thats going to be used to push a product that originally had nothing to do with it.

I actually do hope the game fails hard because it would seem that this industry needs to be slapped more than a few times before it wakes up and sees what they are doing wrong.

A game does not become popular and stay so because of its NAME. A good story sells SINGLE player RPGs, It may drive original sales of MMOs but it doesnt retain many players.

EQ2 never became as popular as EQ1 because of the changes in gameplay.

Asherons Call 2 didnt last 1/6th as long as part 1...because of the changes in gameplay.

SWTOR will not top KOTORs sales...and the reasons are many including the story sample above.

Once you have your hands on a beloved series...you need to tred lightly.

YEs of course Zenimax wanted to make an MMO they created a studio just for that reason, I was asked why Bethesda isn't making it, I offered a wild guess that they didn't want to be the devs to make it.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  IIIcurrier

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/10/05
Posts: 109

5/10/12 8:43:37 PM#289
Originally posted by SlyLoK
Originally posted by Manveru

The criticism is definitely well founded. Look at Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim. - Look at what? Oblivion and Skyrim were " dumbed down " compared to Morrowind.

First Person Perspective - There is still no certainty that there will not be a first person option. Even then FPP works well in a single player environment because everything of import is infront of you. No need to worry about any group mates or player enemies on a battlefield.

This statement is false, either design the game purely in the sense that players shouldn't be able to see where the 'character' could not, or have 3rd person. Both require situation awareness.

 

Skill Based Progression - They could have added this but there would had to been a skill cap since some balance is required in an MMO .. Cant have tank mages running around everywhere. I think a class based system ( which is there in the Single Player games except for Skyrim mind you ) is the lesser of two evils considering changes for balance purposes.

Implement credit cost for skills. aka light weapons 4/credits, necromancy 8 credits. Spread skill points over levels. Look at Asheron's Call, open-system, in TES terms, you could specialize Heavy Armor, and Destruction, be a battle mage, but having draw backs like less Cast speed/Armor Level in Robes which may have 'easily' got mage enchantments. But a tank mage perfected worked.

 

Active Attack, Casting, and Block - In an MMO lag makes a system like this nothing but a headache. Want to miss every attack and be obliterated by a mage because they dont need to aim with AE attacks?

There is plenty of anti-lag scripting out that this should easily be over-came with good mechanics. another excuse for hero-engine mechanics.

 

Abilities Modify Active Commands - No idea what this even means.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but this sounds like how in TES engine athletics altered your jump distance/height, also allowing other abilities like strafing to be used more realistically out and in of combat, among other things.But knowing much they missed in there current "sequals" of fallout and tes, they'll leave mechanics like this to basic things like run speed and stamina regeneration/loss, and forget to add SPRINTING (this could be fixed on PC, don't even get me started on console versions).

 

Open World With Unguided Content - TESO will have a mostly open world from the looks of it.. Oblivion and Skyrim didnt have guided content because of how the critter leveling was handled. You couldnt go anywhere in Morrowind right off or else you would be slaughtered.

It made sense in Morrowind that if you go into the creepy cave in the middle of the forest there might be something unknown, and most likey will slaughter you first hand.

Now games I know in every "zone", I will most likey be able to handle anything thrown at me, and "group encounters" are faked out mob 10x HP crap, and avoidable, almost always.

 

No Class, Race, or Faction Restirctions - We dont know if there will be any Race or Class restrictions .. Just what races are in each faction and in one of the interviews they gave valid ideas as to why each races are in each faction due to that race / groups on agenda.

I aswell hope they don't turn factions in solid, non-moving Red Vs Black. Faction restriction should depend on lore, "priesthood" doesn't accept "criminals", unless "ammended".

 

NPC Companions -Party with other players perhaps? I love to solo myself but the use of companions would just turn the game into EQ2 ( and EQ1 ) where noone parties together because of their mercenaries.

Null and void, companions have proven to work fine in many games mmo and single, if anything they need more work into companion depth.

 

Player Property - Housing would be nice but I am against open world housing as it just clutters up the landscape. A system like EQ2 would suffice.

If the Open Landscape theme is implemented corrected, and not some small crap. I'm talking 1/1 ratio to earth scale and TES Lore.

Asheron's Call open land was great if you've seen it. if not make a character, put on you man pants and take a look around the world on a 14-day free trial, from lone cottages, town-ships of villas, or massive mansions, what could be improved in a more detailed building "Wurm Style".

 

You'll notice that, given even the limited information available about ESO, that not a single one of these defining features is being integrated into the MMO. Most of them could, many of them are features of other released or near released MMOs. The disappointed here is two fold: first, the lack of respect for the intellectual property and second, the severe lack of imagination.

I see plenty of respect being given especially to most of the lore aspects. And MMOs at their core are all alike and the sooner people realize this the better. Most of TES single player features wouldnt fit into an MMO and if you forced them in then it would just be a mess and a complete choatic environment.

No.

 

If the IP was respected, we would get an AWESOME and potentially groundbreaking game. Imagine making a character, any race and skill combination you want, and entering a world of warring factions that you could declare allegiance to or not. Imagine having authentic freedom to choose your own goals and access content without arbitrary restrictions. Imagine interacting with people who have this same kind of freedom.

We dont know yet if this game will be good or bad .. And as before any class combination just leads to headachdes balance wise especially in a game that will have a good bit of PvP. And balance trumps just about everything in that regard. I dont see any restrictions myself and we also dont know how much freedom there will be in the game yet.

My guess is that they planned to use classes, like you assumed above, because both you and developers are in the same "box".

 

It is abundantly clear that this game is essentially WoW with three faction PvP and Elder Scrolls lore.

Abundantly is it? Looks closer like a GW2 / DAoC mix to me.

All of the above you mention seems more correct each also was very limited in-respects to GW class balance, and DAOC was just another shit box with PVP.

 

On the one hand, there is nothing inherently wrong with adopting innovations of previous games. However, there are better games to emulate. The Secret World's skill progression and story telling system spring to mind. Better yet, emulate the series your damn game is based on! Or innovate. Or develop a new IP instead of abusing a loved and respected one.

TSW isnt going to be any different than any MMO before just like TESO , GW2 and even ArcheAge will be no different than any MMO before them. 

Again, both you and current developers like to sit in this "box", GET OUT OF THE F*CKING BOX.

 

 

  iceman00

Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/05
Posts: 1367

Kevin Tierney

5/10/12 9:47:15 PM#290
Originally posted by IIIcurrier

Again, both you and current developers like to sit in this "box", GET OUT OF THE F*CKING BOX.

 

 

Shut up.  You had me at hello.

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5327

5/11/12 8:22:11 AM#291
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Distopia

Uhmm, I don't know, what else do you expect me to say? I have no idea why they make the decisions they do. Maybe they didn't want to make an MMO, but Zenimax made one anyway?

They wanted to make an MMO.

You are a CEO of a major corporation.

You have 2 video game subsidies.

One has a long running series of very popular games.

The other is a new group that hasnt produced jack most people know about that is being run by a guy from another MMO that is hell bent on starting another project.

You cant call that project a sequal to the game he worked on and shouldnt even want to anyway seeing as how long its been since anyone cared about the game...but you can take a product from the other seeing as how they are riding high on a new release and use its name to push the new MMO.

That is exactly what it is. TESO is going to be TES in name only because its the NAME thats going to be used to push a product that originally had nothing to do with it.

I actually do hope the game fails hard because it would seem that this industry needs to be slapped more than a few times before it wakes up and sees what they are doing wrong.

A game does not become popular and stay so because of its NAME. A good story sells SINGLE player RPGs, It may drive original sales of MMOs but it doesnt retain many players.

EQ2 never became as popular as EQ1 because of the changes in gameplay.

Asherons Call 2 didnt last 1/6th as long as part 1...because of the changes in gameplay.

SWTOR will not top KOTORs sales...and the reasons are many including the story sample above.

Once you have your hands on a beloved series...you need to tred lightly.

YEs of course Zenimax wanted to make an MMO they created a studio just for that reason, I was asked why Bethesda isn't making it, I offered a wild guess that they didn't want to be the devs to make it.

this is a side note but its something to consider.

If this game as it has been described came out under a different name all the press and all the players reactions would be radically different. Same game design, different reaction. Everyone would be saying 'omg Dark Age is coming back in a new form'. So ALREADY using the IP as a gateway has already backfired on them

Correlation does not imply causation

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