Originally posted by SEANMCAD

2. fans of other games are playing those other games, what does your game offer them as a reason to switch if its basiclaly the same?

3. you want to trash your existing fan base in hopes of getting a new fan base that is larger BUT its completely unfamilar terrortory for you. Your current fan base is large, proove, easy to understand

3. This is the beauty of another company handling this game, they don't have to trash TES fans to make this game, as they can still focus 100% on expanding Skyrim, and creating new FO or TES games. It's really as simple as that.

2. I'll let Zenimax worry about that... they have to cross that bridge on their own afterall, it's up to them to create a reason to play their game.

enuff of the BLAH BLAH BLAH like TESO is gonna make the elder scroll franchise fall off the face of the earth...even if they make it..if YOU dont like it..DONT PLAY IT...they will keep bringing out their great titles that were on xbox / console / pc ..geesh everyone get a grip..take a deep breath..its ok

It must be kind of disheartening to work on a game for so many years in secret, only to have people hate it the first 16 minutes you talk about it publically.

Originally posted by odinsrath

enuff of the BLAH BLAH BLAH like TESO is gonna make the elder scroll franchise fall off the face of the earth...even if they make it..if YOU dont like it..DONT PLAY IT...they will keep bringing out their great titles that were on xbox / console / pc ..geesh everyone get a grip..take a deep breath..its ok

You don't know that for sure. When was the last time a Warcraft RTS was made? Think we'll see a single player KOTOR anytime soon?

Originally posted by Sabic133

It must be kind of disheartening to work on a game for so many years in secret, only to have people hate it the first 16 minutes you talk about it publically.

 Surely by the same logic the problem may lay in the "Working in secret" part because if they climbed out of their bubble and asked around, even desceetly they would of known this would be the reaction, or they do know and have either constriants (engine, ability to produce or agreement of IP use) or (same old same old lets conform use a industry template and delude ourselves its a WOW cash machine in the making).

Either way if they didnt see this coming then it doesnt bode well for them.

Originally posted by Kelthius

 

You don't know that for sure. When was the last time a Warcraft RTS was made? Think we'll see a single player KOTOR anytime soon?

Totally different situation, Star Wars isn't Bioware's IP, and it's nowhere close to their most important franchise. On the flipside TES is Bethesda's.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

2. fans of other games are playing those other games, what does your game offer them as a reason to switch if its basiclaly the same?

3. you want to trash your existing fan base in hopes of getting a new fan base that is larger BUT its completely unfamilar terrortory for you. Your current fan base is large, proove, easy to understand

3. This is the beauty of another company handling this game, they don't have to trash TES fans to make this game, as they can still focus 100% on expanding Skyrim, and creating new FO or TES games. It's really as simple as that.

2. I'll let Zenimax worry about that... they have to cross that bridge on their own afterall, it's up to them to create a reason to play their game.

3. two different threads completely. the thread of TES Online has the problem of name recogination attracting the wrong player base to look into the game and then react as I have done. if however they created a game called 'barny' they wouldnt have the issue.

2. its a classic unanswered question. if I play game X why would I play game Y. In fact in business they use the word differentiator to address this exact concern.

I think maybe this is for the good, now they might realize you can just release crap with a fancy name.

Stars wars plus this might be a wake up call.

Originally posted by Vorthanion

Originally posted by morlock9

Welcome to next week's headline across the gaming community.

Regardless of the state of the recently revealed game or its ability to stand on it's own as an MMO, the development team has departed significantly from the features that characterized previous Elder Scrolls games and has resulted in a backlash from the fan base.

With the leak of some detailed information on game play, many have begun to wonder if the title of Elder Scrolls Online should be replaced with something more fitting a traditional MMO "Based upon the lore of the Elder Scrolls Series".

At a time when most MMO's benifit from exciting announcments, ESO is already being heralded as a falure for lack of vision. This appears to be the most negatively received "reveal" in the history of the modern MMORPG.         
 

...and you're basing that on the responses from the boards on this website?  No surprise there, knowing that many of the lurkers here are devoted to sandbox / action games.  I don't see much if any negativity on other websites in regards to the release, with exception to MMORPG.com as usual.

But basically, the point is that TES games are pretty powerful, open sandboxes with a heavy action element. Taking that away pretty much guts the feel of the series, and a lot of people feel thta way, not just on these forums, but all over.

Originally posted by kruler

Originally posted by Sabic133

It must be kind of disheartening to work on a game for so many years in secret, only to have people hate it the first 16 minutes you talk about it publically.

 Surely by the same logic the problem may lay in the "Working in secret" part because if they climbed out of their bubble and asked around, even desceetly they would of known this would be the reaction, or they do know and have either constriants (engine, ability to produce or agreement of IP use) or (same old same old lets conform use a industry template and delude ourselves its a WOW cash machine in the making).

Either way if they didnt see this coming then it doesnt bode well for them.

There have been rumous about this for quite some time, and almost everything I saw included the vast majority of people hoping it was a sandbox and had the level of freedom and the fast-paced combat and all of the many and varied options in any other TES game. They should have been knowing TES players wouldn't love this. 

So maybe they are planning to go another route? I don't know. It seems weird to me.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Kelthius

 

You don't know that for sure. When was the last time a Warcraft RTS was made? Think we'll see a single player KOTOR anytime soon?

Totally different situation, Star Wars isn't Bioware's IP, and it's nowhere close to their most important franchise. On the flipside TES is Bethesda's.

Then why isn't Bethesada making it. Why not make the game that people want. Why did they keep it secret for almost 7 yrs. now. Why didn't they take public feedback on what would make the perfect online version of TES and go with that instead of a retread and tired mmo system concept.

I can't understand why these dev companies keep insisting on these NDA's. They keep so much secret, like it's a national security secret and end up creating something that people hate. Honesty, openess and public feedback  from the first day of creation is what's needed. A room full of investors and secret playtesters are what's ruining this genre the most. I find it funny that developers think that other companies are gonna steal their ideas, when in fact every title plays the same.

Originally posted by musicmann

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Kelthius

 

You don't know that for sure. When was the last time a Warcraft RTS was made? Think we'll see a single player KOTOR anytime soon?

Totally different situation, Star Wars isn't Bioware's IP, and it's nowhere close to their most important franchise. On the flipside TES is Bethesda's.

Then why isn't Bethesada making it. Why not make the game that people want. Why did they keep it secret for almost 7 yrs. now. Why didn't they take public feedback on what would make the perfect online version of TES and go with that instead of a retread and tired mmo system concept.

I can't understand why these dev companies keep insisting on these NDA's. They keep so much secret, like it's a national security secret and end up creating something that people hate. Honesty, openess and public feedback  from the first day of creation is what's needed. A room full of investors and secret playtesters are what's ruining this genre the most. I find it funny that developers think that other companies are gonna steal their ideas, when in fact every title plays the same.

Arrogance, plain and simple.  You get these guys who have been in the "industry" for awhile, so they think they know what the players want better than the players themselves.  This is exactly the reason we are seeing a rise in kickstarter, open development, alpha funding and the lot.  People want some kind of transparency and insight.  When you are top secret mode up until the last minute, then this kind of thing happens.  You think they really have time to change the core of the game 1 year before release?  probably not.

Originally posted by musicmann

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Kelthius

 

You don't know that for sure. When was the last time a Warcraft RTS was made? Think we'll see a single player KOTOR anytime soon?

Totally different situation, Star Wars isn't Bioware's IP, and it's nowhere close to their most important franchise. On the flipside TES is Bethesda's.

Then why isn't Bethesada making it. Why not make the game that people want. Why did they keep it secret for almost 7 yrs. now. Why didn't they take public feedback on what would make the perfect online version of TES and go with that instead of a retread and tired mmo system concept.

I can't understand why these dev companies keep insisting on these NDA's. They keep so much secret, like it's a national security secret and end up creating something that people hate. Honesty, openess and public feedback  from the first day of creation is what's needed. A room full of investors and secret playtesters are what's ruining this genre the most. I find it funny that developers think that other companies are gonna steal their ideas, when in fact every title plays the same.

Uhmm, I don't know, what else do you expect me to say? I have no idea why they make the decisions they do. Maybe they didn't want to make an MMO, but Zenimax made one anyway?

Originally posted by Sabic133

Originally posted by musicmann

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Kelthius

 

You don't know that for sure. When was the last time a Warcraft RTS was made? Think we'll see a single player KOTOR anytime soon?

Totally different situation, Star Wars isn't Bioware's IP, and it's nowhere close to their most important franchise. On the flipside TES is Bethesda's.

Then why isn't Bethesada making it. Why not make the game that people want. Why did they keep it secret for almost 7 yrs. now. Why didn't they take public feedback on what would make the perfect online version of TES and go with that instead of a retread and tired mmo system concept.

I can't understand why these dev companies keep insisting on these NDA's. They keep so much secret, like it's a national security secret and end up creating something that people hate. Honesty, openess and public feedback  from the first day of creation is what's needed. A room full of investors and secret playtesters are what's ruining this genre the most. I find it funny that developers think that other companies are gonna steal their ideas, when in fact every title plays the same.

 

Arrogance, plain and simple.  You get these guys who have been in the "industry" for awhile, so they think they know what the players want better than the players themselves.  This is exactly the reason we are seeing a rise in kickstarter, open development, alpha funding and the lot.  People want some kind of transparency and insight.  When you are top secret mode up until the last minute, then this kind of thing happens.  You think they really have time to change the core of the game 1 year before release?  probably not.

 

Thing is I have seen this kind of thing in my personal working life too. its amazing the choices that are made. Some people (not all) are very attracted to power for the sake of power and they tend to elevate  up. Anyway if anyone wants an intresting example of this happening in the past read on wikipedia about the history of Gary Gygax. The father of all RPG's

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Originally posted by musicmann

I can't understand why these dev companies keep insisting on these NDA's. They keep so much secret, like it's a national security secret and end up creating something that people hate. Honesty, openess and public feedback  from the first day of creation is what's needed. A room full of investors and secret playtesters are what's ruining this genre the most. I find it funny that developers think that other companies are gonna steal their ideas, when in fact every title plays the same.

---

Quoted for truth and sorrow.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Kelthius

 

You don't know that for sure. When was the last time a Warcraft RTS was made? Think we'll see a single player KOTOR anytime soon?

Totally different situation, Star Wars isn't Bioware's IP, and it's nowhere close to their most important franchise. On the flipside TES is Bethesda's.

How about DA3 being pushed back for SWTOR (don't know whether it's true)? TES single player will most likely suffer because of this game.

Originally posted by Distopia

Uhmm, I don't know, what else do you expect me to say? I have no idea why they make the decisions they do. Maybe they didn't want to make an MMO, but Zenimax made one anyway?

They wanted to make an MMO.

You are a CEO of a major corporation.

You have 2 video game subsidies.

One has a long running series of very popular games.

The other is a new group that hasnt produced jack most people know about that is being run by a guy from another MMO that is hell bent on starting another project.

You cant call that project a sequal to the game he worked on and shouldnt even want to anyway seeing as how long its been since anyone cared about the game...but you can take a product from the other seeing as how they are riding high on a new release and use its name to push the new MMO.

That is exactly what it is. TESO is going to be TES in name only because its the NAME thats going to be used to push a product that originally had nothing to do with it.

I actually do hope the game fails hard because it would seem that this industry needs to be slapped more than a few times before it wakes up and sees what they are doing wrong.

A game does not become popular and stay so because of its NAME. A good story sells SINGLE player RPGs, It may drive original sales of MMOs but it doesnt retain many players.

EQ2 never became as popular as EQ1 because of the changes in gameplay.

Asherons Call 2 didnt last 1/6th as long as part 1...because of the changes in gameplay.

SWTOR will not top KOTORs sales...and the reasons are many including the story sample above.

Once you have your hands on a beloved series...you need to tred lightly.

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Tes single player won't get pushed back
Tes single player is made by bethseda
TESO is made by zenimax online, completely separate studio
Swtor & da3 are both made by by eaware

yes, its much 'there is star trek and then there is the star trek cartoons.

both targeted for two different audiences, one failed, the other spaned more than one generation.