Originally posted by bazak

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by bazak

why does everyone always forget about the Golem butler?? that you can unlock chests with continualy untill it deactivates (i dun remember i think it lasts like 5 min once u activate anyone in bwe get one and test it?) and considering the drop rates and the ways of gaining a golem butler that are currently known (combined with the stuff in he chest being only helpfull to everyone in pvp or just for laughs). i dun get why people are still up in arms about the chest unless they are being lazy and posting angrily about the chest without actualy doing their research first.

 

i think people shud try google b4 they start fighting with other people over things.... especialy when they are just worried about something possibly happening when all circumstancial evidence says it aint gonna happen(anets personal track record, generalizing is for stupid people who are lazy so dont lump all mmo developers in together) and there being no solid evidence either way..... tbh its trollish behavior.

 

if ur having trouble finding stuff on your own politely asking on a forum is fine but comeing in complaining(aka masquerading what your saying as a question while being obviously combative and not looking for any answer) and getting in fights over stuff you have just decided you know..... yea no..

 

my honest opinion.

 

(not directed at OP sry for derailing a bit but considering the way these forums have been lately i had to say the 2 second bits.)

 

(my 2 cents on subs really quick, bring that price down to 10$ max 5$ if your WoW and id be ok with it given the current rate and quality of content updates with most mmo's which is really what your (not) paying for. but 15$ is just gouging given the main valid reason for such prices is gone (server upkeep= penny compared to b4).)

 

If Golem Butler together with the current droprate of keys, make purchase of gem keys obsolete, then we solve one problem and introduce a new one: why are they putting an useless item in the item mall? If that is the case, they should just remove the key from the item mall, altogether. It only makes sense to put it there if a person, on average, will have a shortage of keys. 

its not obsolete, its one option instead of spending resources (time, in-game currency) getting keys and butlers you can do it in the cash shop. very simple and fits in with the fluff/minor convienyance items (misspelled convienyance i kno) theme in the cash shop.

 

i personaly think that silly extra costumes (not armor but special costumes like in gw1 that only come from the cash shop) will be the main income from the cash shop. along with minis and the other cool things that i wouldnt mind throwing a bit of cash at if i had money to throw around. will be the main income from the cash shop, you underestimate the sheer amount of people who love costumes/silly things/to play dressup. its not just girls its guys too and there are a massive amount of us especialy when it comes to rpg's

its not a "useless item mall" its a "just for fun/ a minor amount of timesaving item mall"

combine that decent income with the box price then expansions down the road and you have a great source of income. does it hit the same high that a sub+item mall with more incentive to buy convience items (cuz of the games design) games will? no, hell no, but it will bring in lots of money and may get somewhere close it gets big enough one day but thats a moot point not worth discussing here atm.

 

the point is its a viable system.

I think it was wrong of me to use the word "useless". I think convenience has its use. I am though thinking that if a person, on average, doesn't have a shortage of keys, it would mean that the market-price through the trading post risks being low enough to make buying keys through gems, obsolete. If the market price for mystic keys is significantely lower than the gem-price, then noone in their right mind would ever buy from the gem shop. That's the possibility I tried to convey by using the word "useless", but it was a bad choice of words.

Edit: I would though have to withdraw the suggestion to remove them, since I realize that it is just a matter of pricing really. It should be priced so that it is cheaper to buy keys through gem-shop than it is buying it through the trading post.

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by bazak

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by bazak

why does everyone always forget about the Golem butler?? that you can unlock chests with continualy untill it deactivates (i dun remember i think it lasts like 5 min once u activate anyone in bwe get one and test it?) and considering the drop rates and the ways of gaining a golem butler that are currently known (combined with the stuff in he chest being only helpfull to everyone in pvp or just for laughs). i dun get why people are still up in arms about the chest unless they are being lazy and posting angrily about the chest without actualy doing their research first.

 

i think people shud try google b4 they start fighting with other people over things.... especialy when they are just worried about something possibly happening when all circumstancial evidence says it aint gonna happen(anets personal track record, generalizing is for stupid people who are lazy so dont lump all mmo developers in together) and there being no solid evidence either way..... tbh its trollish behavior.

 

if ur having trouble finding stuff on your own politely asking on a forum is fine but comeing in complaining(aka masquerading what your saying as a question while being obviously combative and not looking for any answer) and getting in fights over stuff you have just decided you know..... yea no..

 

my honest opinion.

 

(not directed at OP sry for derailing a bit but considering the way these forums have been lately i had to say the 2 second bits.)

 

(my 2 cents on subs really quick, bring that price down to 10$ max 5$ if your WoW and id be ok with it given the current rate and quality of content updates with most mmo's which is really what your (not) paying for. but 15$ is just gouging given the main valid reason for such prices is gone (server upkeep= penny compared to b4).)

 

If Golem Butler together with the current droprate of keys, make purchase of gem keys obsolete, then we solve one problem and introduce a new one: why are they putting an useless item in the item mall? If that is the case, they should just remove the key from the item mall, altogether. It only makes sense to put it there if a person, on average, will have a shortage of keys. 

its not obsolete, its one option instead of spending resources (time, in-game currency) getting keys and butlers you can do it in the cash shop. very simple and fits in with the fluff/minor convienyance items (misspelled convienyance i kno) theme in the cash shop.

 

i personaly think that silly extra costumes (not armor but special costumes like in gw1 that only come from the cash shop) will be the main income from the cash shop. along with minis and the other cool things that i wouldnt mind throwing a bit of cash at if i had money to throw around. will be the main income from the cash shop, you underestimate the sheer amount of people who love costumes/silly things/to play dressup. its not just girls its guys too and there are a massive amount of us especialy when it comes to rpg's

its not a "useless item mall" its a "just for fun/ a minor amount of timesaving item mall"

combine that decent income with the box price then expansions down the road and you have a great source of income. does it hit the same high that a sub+item mall with more incentive to buy convience items (cuz of the games design) games will? no, hell no, but it will bring in lots of money and may get somewhere close it gets big enough one day but thats a moot point not worth discussing here atm.

 

the point is its a viable system.

I think it was wrong of me to use the word "useless". I think convenience has its use. I am though thinking that if a person, on average, doesn't have a shortage of keys, it would mean that the market-price through the trading post risks being low enough to make buying keys through gems, obsolete. If the market price for mystic keys is significantely lower than the gem-price, then noone in their right mind would ever buy from the gem shop. That's the possibility I tried to convey by using the word "useless", but it was a bad choice of words.

 

Edit: I would though have to withdraw the suggestion to remove them, since I realize that it is just a matter of pricing really. It should be priced so that it is cheaper to buy keys through gem-shop than it is buying it through the trading post.

 

ah i understand now, tho it doesnt really matter in the end cuz the keys arent the only thing in the cash shop, curious tho gems are a different currency than gold which is what u buy things with in the trading post. so being cheaper is a subjective thing for most people and it really becomes more about time. tbh they to me just appear to be an option they threw in even tho most people wont need or want it. as long as it isnt harmfull to gameplay, why not put it in there?

in the end its a choice between getting the gold to buy the keys or waiting on getting a golem or keys to drop so its really just about time, changing price wont matter so long as the price is reasonable in the first place.

thanks for the calm composed and polite response tho, very nice and not something i run into often if everyone calmly talked about stuff in a polite manner in these forums i wouldnt be a lurker >.>

the person who create is wrong, giving 100% wrong information. so why this topic still open? this forum dont have any mods?

is start to became ridiculous with so many topic create with guys that just give wrong information.

anyone who want create a topic must at leats do a brief research, if dont find any information dont create a topic and say like you are 100% true about something when are 100% wrong.  you could just say:  "i THINK we need to buy keys from shop to open boxes " but no...

i see the 1st post was reported,  have wrong information, its a forum so obvious have moderators (right??!!) ...so why this is still open?? 

Originally posted by p_c_sousa

the person who create is wrong, giving 100% wrong information. so why this topic still open? this forum dont have any mods?

is start to became ridiculous with so many topic create with guys that just give wrong information.

anyone who want create a topic must at leats do a brief research, if dont find any information dont create a topic and say like you are 100% true about something when are 100% wrong.  you could just say:  "i THINK we need to buy keys from shop to open boxes " but no...

 

i see the 1st post was reported,  have wrong information, its a forum so obvious have moderators (right??!!) ...so why this is still open?? 

Actually the OP discovered that the keys drop in game and isn't so gripey about the lockboxes now. Anet saves another soul.

Originally posted by Magnetia

Originally posted by p_c_sousa

the person who create is wrong, giving 100% wrong information. so why this topic still open? this forum dont have any mods?

is start to became ridiculous with so many topic create with guys that just give wrong information.

anyone who want create a topic must at leats do a brief research, if dont find any information dont create a topic and say like you are 100% true about something when are 100% wrong.  you could just say:  "i THINK we need to buy keys from shop to open boxes " but no...

 

i see the 1st post was reported,  have wrong information, its a forum so obvious have moderators (right??!!) ...so why this is still open?? 

Actually the OP discovered that the keys drop in game and isn't so gripey about the lockboxes now. Anet saves another soul.

i know that because i read the firts 2 pages (he even gratz arenanet when he saw he was wrong) , but that isnt the point. someone could just see the first few post and get the sensation that the information was correct. 

at least he or mods  could edit the post and topic title .  sometimes i get sensation that exist few mods on this forum

At the end of the BWE I had something like five lockboxes and I never saw a key drop.  And due to a bug, I couldn't access the cash shop to use my free games.  Irritating.  I really wanted to polymorph into a small furry animal.

The cash shop in this game does not bother me one bit. I don't give a rats ass about it it's not going to imnpact my game play. I'll trash any lock boxes I get.

Originally posted by Torqia

Its Pay to not be annoyed...

So you need to pay real money to open lockboxes.... sigh

Yes that isnt pay to win but if you dont pay, your gonna feel like you cant get the items you grinded for and that would piss me off terribly.

Yes they need to make money but i for one HATE HATE HATE this model. 

First of all the keys drop in game. Secondly are there junk in those boxes anyways.

I run by plenty of chests in GW1 because I don´t have keys or lockpicks (or don´t want to risk my expensive lockpick), not really that annoying after a while.. Same thing here except that you have one option more if you really must open all but are short on gold..

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by VowOfSilence

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by VowOfSilence
  

Actually, any gambling is generally illegal in many countries & US states as soon as money is involved. If Diablo 3 had mystic chests along with RMT, that would be flat-out illegal. So, yeah, you could sue quite a lot of developers - question is if you're really gonna win.

http://venturebeat.com/2009/06/04/could-social-gaming-companies-get-nailed-for-illegal-gambling/

But ArenaNet does not have gambling for real money.

Of course they do xP

Unlock chests with money, get a random item with a monetary value from them. Done!

It's a gray area because you're not allowed to actually sell it for money again, but you still save money if you get good drops.

But you can unlock chests without money and the items inside those chests do not have any monetary value.

Chests drop regular cash shop items as well, so there is a definite monetary value to them. Alternatives to gambling don't matter, it's still gambling. F.e. if I gamble for a car, it's not legal just because I have the option to just buy / earn that car instead.

So, what F2P games are doing is the equivalent to: Have an illegal poker tournament with a car as a prize. To get away with it, don't allow the winner to "cash out" by selling the car. Then, allow 12-year old kids to join the gambling fun!

Totally legit and ethical buisiness practice, nothing to see here, move along...

Originally posted by Torqia

Its Pay to not be annoyed...

So you need to pay real money to open lockboxes.... sigh

Yes that isnt pay to win but if you dont pay, your gonna feel like you cant get the items you grinded for and that would piss me off terribly.

Yes they need to make money but i for one HATE HATE HATE this model. 

Keys drop. Boxes drop. I don't understand the problem.   Oh wait, you're impatient and can't handle delayed gratification.     Now I understand the problem. 

Sorry.   Such is life.

Besides, the rewards are trivial.   Some silly potion that makes an animal.  Some minor butts.    Didn't use any of it.   Didn't want to spend 30-minutes as a parrot or some such thing...

Originally posted by VowOfSilence

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by VowOfSilence

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by VowOfSilence
  

Actually, any gambling is generally illegal in many countries & US states as soon as money is involved. If Diablo 3 had mystic chests along with RMT, that would be flat-out illegal. So, yeah, you could sue quite a lot of developers - question is if you're really gonna win.

http://venturebeat.com/2009/06/04/could-social-gaming-companies-get-nailed-for-illegal-gambling/

But ArenaNet does not have gambling for real money.

Of course they do xP

Unlock chests with money, get a random item with a monetary value from them. Done!

It's a gray area because you're not allowed to actually sell it for money again, but you still save money if you get good drops.

But you can unlock chests without money and the items inside those chests do not have any monetary value.

Chests drop regular cash shop items as well, so there is a definite monetary value to them. Alternatives to gambling don't matter, it's still gambling. F.e. if I gamble for a car, it's not legal just because I have the option to just buy / earn that car instead.

So, what F2P games are doing is the equivalent to: Have an illegal poker tournament with a car as a prize. To get away with it, don't allow the winner to "cash out" by selling the car. Then, allow 12-year old kids to join the gambling fun!

Totally legit and ethical buisiness practice, nothing to see here, move along...

lol.  What a funny argument you guys have going on here....    If you think all those state, city and federal prosecuting attornies who play these games, and many of them do, haven't already laughed off even the thought of this being some 'illegal gambling operation' you're kidding yourself.

Plus, if you think all the companies, with billions of dollars of revenue haven't vetted these issues vis gambling laws...   You're doubling kidding yourselves.

Originally posted by VowOfSilence

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by VowOfSilence

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by VowOfSilence
  

Actually, any gambling is generally illegal in many countries & US states as soon as money is involved. If Diablo 3 had mystic chests along with RMT, that would be flat-out illegal. So, yeah, you could sue quite a lot of developers - question is if you're really gonna win.

http://venturebeat.com/2009/06/04/could-social-gaming-companies-get-nailed-for-illegal-gambling/

But ArenaNet does not have gambling for real money.

Of course they do xP

Unlock chests with money, get a random item with a monetary value from them. Done!

It's a gray area because you're not allowed to actually sell it for money again, but you still save money if you get good drops.

But you can unlock chests without money and the items inside those chests do not have any monetary value.

Chests drop regular cash shop items as well, so there is a definite monetary value to them. Alternatives to gambling don't matter, it's still gambling. F.e. if I gamble for a car, it's not legal just because I have the option to just buy / earn that car instead.

So, what F2P games are doing is the equivalent to: Have an illegal poker tournament with a car as a prize. To get away with it, don't allow the winner to "cash out" by selling the car. Then, allow 12-year old kids to join the gambling fun!

Totally legit and ethical buisiness practice, nothing to see here, move along...

You can get certain cash shop items by just playing the game, the chests are just one possible way of getting them.

These anti-cash shop posts are getting absolutely bananas at this point! Using your logic, buying a bag of assorted candies is gambling too and should be outlawed. I mean, seriously, give up and move on, you're really grasping here.

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by VowOfSilence

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by VowOfSilence

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by VowOfSilence
  

Actually, any gambling is generally illegal in many countries & US states as soon as money is involved. If Diablo 3 had mystic chests along with RMT, that would be flat-out illegal. So, yeah, you could sue quite a lot of developers - question is if you're really gonna win.

http://venturebeat.com/2009/06/04/could-social-gaming-companies-get-nailed-for-illegal-gambling/

But ArenaNet does not have gambling for real money.

Of course they do xP

Unlock chests with money, get a random item with a monetary value from them. Done!

It's a gray area because you're not allowed to actually sell it for money again, but you still save money if you get good drops.

But you can unlock chests without money and the items inside those chests do not have any monetary value.

Chests drop regular cash shop items as well, so there is a definite monetary value to them. Alternatives to gambling don't matter, it's still gambling. F.e. if I gamble for a car, it's not legal just because I have the option to just buy / earn that car instead.

So, what F2P games are doing is the equivalent to: Have an illegal poker tournament with a car as a prize. To get away with it, don't allow the winner to "cash out" by selling the car. Then, allow 12-year old kids to join the gambling fun!

Totally legit and ethical buisiness practice, nothing to see here, move along...

You can get certain cash shop items by just playing the game, the chests are just one possible way of getting them.

These anti-cash shop posts are getting absolutely bananas at this point! Using your logic, buying a bag of assorted candies is gambling too and should be outlawed. I mean, seriously, give up and move on, you're really grasping here.

Depends on which definition of "gambling" you use. If you consider gambling to be as simple as spending money/material resources to access items/money without being certain of getting exactly those items/money due to probabilty reasons, then yeah buying a bag of assorted candies may be a form of gambling. 

Whether or not it is against the law and where the law draws a line: we would need someone who knows that particular field very well.

Also keep in mind, that just because something is illegal, it doesn't necessarely mean that there will be people who will find it worthwhile to attempt to "punish" you.

Furthermore, laws can become ridiculous at times, while making sense in general: such as the age-restrictive laws, which work great in general but become absurd for people close to the line. 

ok so..your complaining about keys you can buy...that also drop on mobs and you get at certain queusts to and even if you open the chest it gives you some temp. buffs and some pots that changes you into animals

all hail the trollking

What did the OP expect? at the end of the day they have to make money...

If there is no monthly sub then they have no make cash by selling stuff in their shop... so there has to be stuff in the shop that people will want and need.. it does not have to be items that will make a person win or anything but things people will want.. otherwise whats the point.

Originally posted by VowOfSilence

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by VowOfSilence

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by VowOfSilence
  

Actually, any gambling is generally illegal in many countries & US states as soon as money is involved. If Diablo 3 had mystic chests along with RMT, that would be flat-out illegal. So, yeah, you could sue quite a lot of developers - question is if you're really gonna win.

http://venturebeat.com/2009/06/04/could-social-gaming-companies-get-nailed-for-illegal-gambling/

But ArenaNet does not have gambling for real money.

Of course they do xP

Unlock chests with money, get a random item with a monetary value from them. Done!

It's a gray area because you're not allowed to actually sell it for money again, but you still save money if you get good drops.

But you can unlock chests without money and the items inside those chests do not have any monetary value.

Chests drop regular cash shop items as well, so there is a definite monetary value to them. Alternatives to gambling don't matter, it's still gambling. F.e. if I gamble for a car, it's not legal just because I have the option to just buy / earn that car instead.

So, what F2P games are doing is the equivalent to: Have an illegal poker tournament with a car as a prize. To get away with it, don't allow the winner to "cash out" by selling the car. Then, allow 12-year old kids to join the gambling fun!

Totally legit and ethical buisiness practice, nothing to see here, move along...

Do these chests have a chance to have nothing in them at all ? If you get something for your money it is a gamble as to whether or not you will get what you want, but, since there is a return on your investment, generally won't fall under gambling restrictions any more than collectible card games do.

I agree with your statement that selling a harmless product to people who want it (and only those who want it as it is not at all forced) is completely ethical and legit.

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by VowOfSilence

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by VowOfSilence

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by VowOfSilence
  

Actually, any gambling is generally illegal in many countries & US states as soon as money is involved. If Diablo 3 had mystic chests along with RMT, that would be flat-out illegal. So, yeah, you could sue quite a lot of developers - question is if you're really gonna win.

http://venturebeat.com/2009/06/04/could-social-gaming-companies-get-nailed-for-illegal-gambling/

But ArenaNet does not have gambling for real money.

Of course they do xP

Unlock chests with money, get a random item with a monetary value from them. Done!

It's a gray area because you're not allowed to actually sell it for money again, but you still save money if you get good drops.

But you can unlock chests without money and the items inside those chests do not have any monetary value.

Chests drop regular cash shop items as well, so there is a definite monetary value to them. Alternatives to gambling don't matter, it's still gambling. F.e. if I gamble for a car, it's not legal just because I have the option to just buy / earn that car instead.

So, what F2P games are doing is the equivalent to: Have an illegal poker tournament with a car as a prize. To get away with it, don't allow the winner to "cash out" by selling the car. Then, allow 12-year old kids to join the gambling fun!

Totally legit and ethical buisiness practice, nothing to see here, move along...

You can get certain cash shop items by just playing the game, the chests are just one possible way of getting them.

These anti-cash shop posts are getting absolutely bananas at this point! Using your logic, buying a bag of assorted candies is gambling too and should be outlawed. I mean, seriously, give up and move on, you're really grasping here.

Depends on which definition of "gambling" you use. If you consider gambling to be as simple as spending money/material resources to access items/money without being certain of getting exactly those items/money due to probabilty reasons, then yeah buying a bag of assorted candies may be a form of gambling.

That seems to be the main compaint here. Since you're not 100% sure what you're going to get from those chests, it's gambling and unethical.

It's absolutely ridiculous as using that same logic any product can be considered gambling and/or unethical.

Originally posted by Torqia

Random drop.. Its basicly just a drop item that you cant acces without gems bought in the shop.

Ofc you can trade gems from others but somebody has to buy them..

Its actualy a pretty normal use of cash shop.. Some games sell keys, Anet sells gems.. same deal. 

Keys drop as well, its not a gem exclusive buy.

What the OP is stating is if a lock box drops for him, and the key doesn't immediately, the only way to open it at that time is to buy the key, but of course you can still play till the key drops.

What many is stating is that key is gem only, which is incorrect, they already stated that the key and lock boxes both drops randomly.

Its just convenience that if you want it now, you can always just buy the keys.

gw2 is soooo doomed!

i got around 9001 lockboxes dropped at around level 10 and i had to buy a key for every one for 10 bucks each!

this costed me 378923497290287349087104 bucks!

but boy, this was worth it.

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by VowOfSilence

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by VowOfSilence

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by VowOfSilence
  

Actually, any gambling is generally illegal in many countries & US states as soon as money is involved. If Diablo 3 had mystic chests along with RMT, that would be flat-out illegal. So, yeah, you could sue quite a lot of developers - question is if you're really gonna win.

http://venturebeat.com/2009/06/04/could-social-gaming-companies-get-nailed-for-illegal-gambling/

But ArenaNet does not have gambling for real money.

Of course they do xP

Unlock chests with money, get a random item with a monetary value from them. Done!

It's a gray area because you're not allowed to actually sell it for money again, but you still save money if you get good drops.

But you can unlock chests without money and the items inside those chests do not have any monetary value.

Chests drop regular cash shop items as well, so there is a definite monetary value to them. Alternatives to gambling don't matter, it's still gambling. F.e. if I gamble for a car, it's not legal just because I have the option to just buy / earn that car instead.

So, what F2P games are doing is the equivalent to: Have an illegal poker tournament with a car as a prize. To get away with it, don't allow the winner to "cash out" by selling the car. Then, allow 12-year old kids to join the gambling fun!

Totally legit and ethical buisiness practice, nothing to see here, move along...

You can get certain cash shop items by just playing the game, the chests are just one possible way of getting them.

These anti-cash shop posts are getting absolutely bananas at this point! Using your logic, buying a bag of assorted candies is gambling too and should be outlawed. I mean, seriously, give up and move on, you're really grasping here.

Depends on which definition of "gambling" you use. If you consider gambling to be as simple as spending money/material resources to access items/money without being certain of getting exactly those items/money due to probabilty reasons, then yeah buying a bag of assorted candies may be a form of gambling.

That seems to be the main compaint here. Since you're not 100% sure what you're going to get from those chests, it's gambling and unethical.

It's absolutely ridiculous as using that same logic any product can be considered gambling and/or unethical.

And gaming is gambling, in SWTOR you were constantly gambling for that 1/4 drop for your PVP gear. In Raids you were always gambling that you might get that drop, and if it does drop, you were gambling with others with your dice rolls.

Every mob you kill in game is gambling, because you never know if you will get that one world drop that others gotten and sold for tons of ingame money.

Just exploring in GW2 and every MMO is an Gamble, you never know if you will succeed in killing that boss for the loot that might or might not drop, or maybe someone already is there tagging the Named Mobs like in FFXI

Gaming is Gambling, if you can't handle that, I think gaming is really not for you.