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  Shmackpappy

Novice Member

Joined: 12/29/11
Posts: 77

 
OP  5/10/12 10:17:14 AM#41
Originally posted by maplestone
Originally posted by Shmackpappy
 
 
Just a request to the developers out there.  Please add a little bit of a challenge to these games.  Just a wee bit.   Without a challenge it’s just not fun. 

What would it take to make to convince you to take on an arbitrary handicap?  I mean, there are loads of ways of making a game harder on yourself by setting challenge (eg: non-magical gear only).   What's holding you back from taking on one of these challenge styles?  A lack of formal achievements/recognition for doing it?  Fear that other players will refuse to play with someone who isn't min-maxing?   An inability to feel accomplishment from something that *could* have been done more easily?

Despite your attempt to be provocative I will answer you.
 
What you are suggesting is basically what you do in a single player RPG when choosing a difficulty level.  An MMORPG is meant to be played with and against other people so by artificially handicapping yourself you take yourself out of the group dynamic so what’s the point?  Might as well play the single player game (which I am doing).  The rewards of getting better gear should hold some difficulty and be balanced with the level increase and level of the zone you are playing.  Out leveling a zone quickly and not being able to follow the storyline quests just ruin the game. 

 

 

  Shmackpappy

Novice Member

Joined: 12/29/11
Posts: 77

 
OP  5/10/12 10:28:32 AM#42
Originally posted by SuperXero89
Originally posted by Shmackpappy
I tend to be more casual than not when it comes to gaming so I don’t require I huge amount of difficulty but, come on, there should be at least a bit of challenge to the game to make it interesting.  Most recently I played Rift to the level cap and while I did enjoy the game it was way too easy to get there.  Not seeing anything that interested me that was out I took a step back and went back to EQ2.  Talk about easy!  My shadow knight was easily able to take on monsters that were 5 or 6 levels above.  To die I had to be mobbed by several of these critters.  It was usually quite easy to run away still.  I quit MMOs entirely for the moment and am now playing a single player RPG (Dragon Age: Origins) and enjoying it thoroughly.  I will wait for the new crop of MMOs to come out and see what they have to offer. 
 
Just a request to the developers out there.  Please add a little bit of a challenge to these games.  Just a wee bit.   Without a challenge it’s just not fun. 

You pick the most overpowered, FoTM class in the game then you complain about it being too easy?

Secondly, what are your achievements.  How many endgame dungeons have you cleared?  How many raids have you finished?  Have you maxed out your AAs?  Your gear?

It's easy to say any game is too easy when you willfully ignore the challenging parts.

The challaging parts?  I haven't even got to the end game yet and my shadownight was only an example.  I have other character classes as well.  The core of the game is questing.  No challange, no fun, no reason to continue on so I can play the endgame.  I'm not only picking on EQ2.  Other MMOs suffer from the same issue although EQ2 takes it to farther than most.  I can only walk around following the story and looking at the scenary for so long.  If I just wanted story with no challenge then I'll read a book.

  Shmackpappy

Novice Member

Joined: 12/29/11
Posts: 77

 
OP  5/10/12 10:32:49 AM#43
Originally posted by IIIcurrier
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by IIIcurrier

what the hell is Ironmanning?

 

Btw you have no taste in MMORPG's. How much money do you make?

Edit: whoops I may have mistaken you for of the many other reveiwers with heavy pockets.

This is Ironman Leveling

 

totally optional, and usually available in most MMO with leveling.
totally Hardcore, if you can handle it. Want hard gameplay? Well LEARN TO IRONMAN IT!!!

Just making the more difficult doesn't expand its playability. I can play mario drunk as many times as I want but it doesn't get any more interesting.

E: just means I have to do the grind infinite lives

LOL.  Playing drunk.  I should try that.

  arieste

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/11/04
Posts: 3311

5/10/12 10:46:48 AM#44
Originally posted by Shmackpappy
I tend to be more casual than not when it comes to gaming so I don’t require I huge amount of difficulty but, come on, there should be at least a bit of challenge to the game to make it interesting.  Most recently I played Rift to the level cap and while I did enjoy the game it was way too easy to get there.  Not seeing anything that interested me that was out I took a step back and went back to EQ2.  Talk about easy!  My shadow knight was easily able to take on monsters that were 5 or 6 levels above.  To die I had to be mobbed by several of these critters.  It was usually quite easy to run away still.  I quit MMOs entirely for the moment and am now playing a single player RPG (Dragon Age: Origins) and enjoying it thoroughly.  I will wait for the new crop of MMOs to come out and see what they have to offer. 
 
Just a request to the developers out there.  Please add a little bit of a challenge to these games.  Just a wee bit.   Without a challenge it’s just not fun. 

You killed an easy critter and complain about it being too easy?  I'm an 8 year vet of EQ2.  THe game has NEVER been more difficult than it is now. 

 

The last expansion for EQ2 was the first expansion in the history of the game (it's had like 8 expacs) that was not cleared by ANYONE worldwide before the level cap was raised.  And despite the level cap raise, it STILL has not been cleared.  

 

The game is designed to have plenty of easy, medium and difficult content in order to appeal to different players and to allow new players to easily jump in and work their way up to difficult content.  It sounds to me like you tried some of the easiest and quit.  If you want a challenge, I dare you to kill anything worthwhile in the game.

 

Also, fyi - as you may not have known this -  you say you were killing monsters 5-6 levels up.  With the level cap at 92, all chellenging encounters are currently level 100. (The game is designed to be killing higher rather than even-level stuff.)   Additionally, the difficulty in EQ2 is not indicated only by the level but by another attribute, regardless of level monsters can come in Solo, Heroic, Epic X2, Epic X3 and Epic X4.  

 

And while the greatest challenges are in 24-person encounters, one needn't even look that far.  There are some EXTREMELY challenging encounters for single-groups as well.   The idea is that you need to work your way up to them.  You clearly are a skilled player, so you expected a greater challenge right away and didn't get it, which is unfortunate because there is tons and tons of challenge out there.  

 

The game is also 8 years old, so most of the really challenging stuff is now at level cap, since earlier stuff wasn't designed to be done with new gear and all the AA points new characters now get.

 

p.s.   Just noticed your reply.. the "core" of EQ2 is not questing.  There is tons of questing for those that enjoy, but the true core of the game is group and raid dungeons.  This is where the majority of the challenge is.  Questing at this point is just a repetitive grind to get certain items and to level up (although most veterans don't level by questing anymore).  The questing WAS challenging 7 years ago when the game launched.  Since then, it has been revamped to be easy and quick in order to let new people get to the real content at cap.    It depends on what you want, if you want challenge, questing is not where it's at.

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  Jetrpg

Novice Member

Joined: 4/22/06
Posts: 2395

5/10/12 11:17:03 AM#45
Originally posted by Shmackpappy
I tend to be more casual than not when it comes to gaming so I don’t require I huge amount of difficulty but, come on, there should be at least a bit of challenge to the game to make it interesting.  Most recently I played Rift to the level cap and while I did enjoy the game it was way too easy to get there.  Not seeing anything that interested me that was out I took a step back and went back to EQ2.  Talk about easy!  My shadow knight was easily able to take on monsters that were 5 or 6 levels above.  To die I had to be mobbed by several of these critters.  It was usually quite easy to run away still.  I quit MMOs entirely for the moment and am now playing a single player RPG (Dragon Age: Origins) and enjoying it thoroughly.  I will wait for the new crop of MMOs to come out and see what they have to offer. 
 
Just a request to the developers out there.  Please add a little bit of a challenge to these games.  Just a wee bit.   Without a challenge it’s just not fun. 

I think they are nerfing the starting area champions , but GW2 has champiosn (aka elite mobs) that pretty much 1 shot everything with aoes while shootong like 8 of them out at a time. Super fun... you die alot in the game its hard but people rez you and your like donkey-middle-of-dougnut just killed me. And you jump back in for some more (and die agian).

Its pretty fun so far... but it was easier, they made it harder, and i have fears that they will make it easier agian, appeal to the masses (at day oen , when they just started, and don't make them think) . Pretty sure everyone here knows the harder the better but i feel dev.s don't becuase they have to worry about the masses .. at lvl 1 who don't wanna read their abilities.

"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine

  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

5/10/12 11:24:17 AM#46
Originally posted by Shmackpappy

Despite your attempt to be provocative I will answer you.
 
What you are suggesting is basically what you do in a single player RPG when choosing a difficulty level.  An MMORPG is meant to be played with and against other people so by artificially handicapping yourself you take yourself out of the group dynamic so what’s the point?  Might as well play the single player game (which I am doing).  The rewards of getting better gear should hold some difficulty and be balanced with the level increase and level of the zone you are playing.  Out leveling a zone quickly and not being able to follow the storyline quests just ruin the game. 

 

If I provoke, it is only to create a crusible in which the ideas can be melted down and explored.  Thank you for answering.

So you are saying that you are judging yourself by other players?  That you cannot enjoy being handicapped if the rest of the players playing around you are not equally handicapped?

Are you at least playing the zones that are a level or two higher than your character?  Or do you feel the story breadcrumbs keep leading you back to lower-level content than where you feel you are having the most fun?

  Shmackpappy

Novice Member

Joined: 12/29/11
Posts: 77

 
OP  5/10/12 11:29:49 AM#47
Originally posted by arieste
Originally posted by Shmackpappy
I tend to be more casual than not when it comes to gaming so I don’t require I huge amount of difficulty but, come on, there should be at least a bit of challenge to the game to make it interesting.  Most recently I played Rift to the level cap and while I did enjoy the game it was way too easy to get there.  Not seeing anything that interested me that was out I took a step back and went back to EQ2.  Talk about easy!  My shadow knight was easily able to take on monsters that were 5 or 6 levels above.  To die I had to be mobbed by several of these critters.  It was usually quite easy to run away still.  I quit MMOs entirely for the moment and am now playing a single player RPG (Dragon Age: Origins) and enjoying it thoroughly.  I will wait for the new crop of MMOs to come out and see what they have to offer. 
 
Just a request to the developers out there.  Please add a little bit of a challenge to these games.  Just a wee bit.   Without a challenge it’s just not fun. 

You killed an easy critter and complain about it being too easy?  I'm an 8 year vet of EQ2.  THe game has NEVER been more difficult than it is now. 

 

The last expansion for EQ2 was the first expansion in the history of the game (it's had like 8 expacs) that was not cleared by ANYONE worldwide before the level cap was raised.  And despite the level cap raise, it STILL has not been cleared.  

 

The game is designed to have plenty of easy, medium and difficult content in order to appeal to different players and to allow new players to easily jump in and work their way up to difficult content.  It sounds to me like you tried some of the easiest and quit.  If you want a challenge, I dare you to kill anything worthwhile in the game.

 

Also, fyi - as you may not have known this -  you say you were killing monsters 5-6 levels up.  With the level cap at 92, all chellenging encounters are currently level 100. (The game is designed to be killing higher rather than even-level stuff.)   Additionally, the difficulty in EQ2 is not indicated only by the level but by another attribute, regardless of level monsters can come in Solo, Heroic, Epic X2, Epic X3 and Epic X4.  

 

And while the greatest challenges are in 24-person encounters, one needn't even look that far.  There are some EXTREMELY challenging encounters for single-groups as well.   The idea is that you need to work your way up to them.  You clearly are a skilled player, so you expected a greater challenge right away and didn't get it, which is unfortunate because there is tons and tons of challenge out there.  

 

The game is also 8 years old, so most of the really challenging stuff is now at level cap, since earlier stuff wasn't designed to be done with new gear and all the AA points new characters now get.

 

p.s.   Just noticed your reply.. the "core" of EQ2 is not questing.  There is tons of questing for those that enjoy, but the true core of the game is group and raid dungeons.  This is where the majority of the challenge is.  Questing at this point is just a repetitive grind to get certain items and to level up (although most veterans don't level by questing anymore).  The questing WAS challenging 7 years ago when the game launched.  Since then, it has been revamped to be easy and quick in order to let new people get to the real content at cap.    It depends on what you want, if you want challenge, questing is not where it's at.

So, all the game play is at the end game?  I should waste my time for months until I get to the level cap and then it will be fun?  Why would I ever do that.  That makes the game even more pointless.  And, btw, I played for a few months before I finally gave up. 

  Twistingfate

Novice Member

Joined: 10/21/10
Posts: 178

5/10/12 11:33:08 AM#48

Just my two cents but I found Guildwars 2 pretty difficult. i really liked how easily the mobs could rip you end from end if you messed with the wrong ones or if you werent paying attention. Its was only the first beta weekend but it seems like it will be a hard game. 

 

EVE online is pretty difficult as well, as a 3 year veteran Im still learning new things.

 

Best wishes

Saint

  Angier2758

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/09
Posts: 1060

5/10/12 11:53:33 AM#49
Originally posted by mmoguy43

You should check out Vanguard once it goes F2P. It isn't as forgiving and there a many opportunities for a challenge solo or as a small group. It is doubtful that we will see much challenging content in new MMOs.

I found it painfully easy.. honestly the game was more tedious than difficult.

It's very forgiving... my shadowknight (if that's what it was called) could fight group mobs solo.... (and I use plural if you understand the mechanics.. many is easier than 1).

  Venger

Novice Member

Joined: 8/03/04
Posts: 1322

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5/10/12 11:53:34 AM#50

I don't disagree with you, problem is the standard class/level system we have.  There isn't enough mini milestones to go around to keep it feeling like a asian grind fest.  Plus the only skill base games that have released recently are ffa pvp, which are a niche market or very looooooow budget.

  tuzalov

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Joined: 7/11/07
Posts: 183

"Our birth is nothing but our death begun."

5/10/12 12:06:58 PM#51

Tired of easy MMOs

 

Why can't we have both,RO was/is a mmo that caters to the hardcore and casual player.

RO was huge why? Because it was accesible to both styles of play. - And please don't say RO sucked,the game is almost 15 years old,most likely older then the people replying to this and it still rox.

 

When we were asked to test WoW  I was floored by this game "WoW"  as I was a Lineage tester/player for almost 4 years at this point just blew me away and alot of us felt this way we had alot of hopes for it as we were sick of the Korean XP GRINDDDDDD...

It's just gotten so lazy.The only game I can think of is Fallen Earth that has tried to bridge the gap,I can't say whether they have or not,but I am happy they are trying.

MMO's from my baseline comparison of Meridian 59 Lineage 1 Dragon Raja and others have just been cookie cuttered out .

  Swollen_Beef

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/15/09
Posts: 203

5/10/12 12:18:49 PM#52
Companies want to make money. Yes I get that, but with blizzards success companies don't want to make money now, they want to hit the lottery.
  Shmackpappy

Novice Member

Joined: 12/29/11
Posts: 77

 
OP  5/10/12 1:42:17 PM#53
Originally posted by xDayx

I agree with the OP and welcome to your answer for your post.

www.mortalonline.com After the next expansion comes out in the next couple weeks try the free trial.

The developers dont plan to make it easy mode, players can loot anything your wearing or have on you, or kill your mount. If your naked people can see your junk. It is open-world with no maps or quests(learn your way by memorizing how the landscape looks). You will have to be wary of thieves in town and murderers outside of town. If your wearing a helm your view is slightly lessened. No insta-ports, etc.  Its not free-to-play and there is no cash-item shop. You need to eat and sleep lest you starve or run out of stamina/health, dont eat the wrong kind of food because you will puke. Skill-based so no formal classes or levels to restrict you. Nighttime is really really dark. You start the game with rags, a shortsword and pickaxe. Equipment weight and carry weight affects your movement and you could drown if you are too heavy.  There is no RvRvR or WvWvW -Ally yourself with whatever guild you want to and go to war with their enemies if you want to go the PVP/Siege route.  And last but not least the game will even grief you at times with some bugs and the haters of the game are also hardcore. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGFI8aHs1Y8&feature=related

(gameplay trailer from 2 yrs ago though, but it sums it up best imo)

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a4FSjX-F60 

   (video  G(

 

Or at least go play EVE. And I would agree with above... if you neeeeed to play a themepark, then VG.

 

 

 

 

 

I was looking at Mortal Online but the reviews say it is extremely buggy. 

  xDayx

Novice Member

Joined: 9/08/11
Posts: 713

5/10/12 1:52:26 PM#54
Originally posted by Shmackpappy
Originally posted by xDayx

I agree with the OP and welcome to your answer for your post.

www.mortalonline.com After the next expansion comes out in the next couple weeks try the free trial.

The developers dont plan to make it easy mode, players can loot anything your wearing or have on you, or kill your mount. If your naked people can see your junk. It is open-world with no maps or quests(learn your way by memorizing how the landscape looks). You will have to be wary of thieves in town and murderers outside of town. If your wearing a helm your view is slightly lessened. No insta-ports, etc.  Its not free-to-play and there is no cash-item shop. You need to eat and sleep lest you starve or run out of stamina/health, dont eat the wrong kind of food because you will puke. Skill-based so no formal classes or levels to restrict you. Nighttime is really really dark. You start the game with rags, a shortsword and pickaxe. Equipment weight and carry weight affects your movement and you could drown if you are too heavy.  There is no RvRvR or WvWvW -Ally yourself with whatever guild you want to and go to war with their enemies if you want to go the PVP/Siege route.  And last but not least the game will even grief you at times with some bugs and the haters of the game are also hardcore. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGFI8aHs1Y8&feature=related

(gameplay trailer from 2 yrs ago though, but it sums it up best imo)

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a4FSjX-F60 

   (video  G(

 

Or at least go play EVE. And I would agree with above... if you neeeeed to play a themepark, then VG.

 

 

 

 

 

I was looking at Mortal Online but the reviews say it is extremely buggy. 

Oh there are bugs. But you have a choice to make. Continue to support AAA crap or play something with some spine,or quit altogether. Your choice. Ive been playing for about 2 years and the bugs ive incurred had never made me want to play whatever the 'masses' are hyping this month.

  Shmackpappy

Novice Member

Joined: 12/29/11
Posts: 77

 
OP  5/10/12 2:15:12 PM#55
Originally posted by xDayx

 

Oh there are bugs. But you have a choice to make. Continue to support AAA crap or play something with some spine,or quit altogether. Your choice. Ive been playing for about 2 years and the bugs ive incurred had never made me want to play whatever the 'masses' are hyping this month.

If it's as buggy as they say then my decision (as stated in my original post) is to quit for now and play single player RPGs.  There are a lot of good ones out there.  A game that doesn't work is still crap regardless of its game play mechanics.

  Tyrranosaur

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/18/06
Posts: 283

5/10/12 2:20:13 PM#56

As a real casual player I'm actually finding Rift kind of challenging in a not-too-aggravating way. The OP may need to stick with non-MMOs for a while though, as I'm not entirely sure what sort of challenge he's looking for, but if its one where you have to die over and over again dozens of times before finally getting lucky or doing the exact sequence/actions just right, then most of today's MMO crop is not going to offer that. 

Current MMOs: Rift, GW2, Defiance
Blog: http://realmsofchirak.blogspot.com (old school tabletop gaming and more)

  Shmackpappy

Novice Member

Joined: 12/29/11
Posts: 77

 
OP  5/10/12 2:42:37 PM#57
Originally posted by Tyrranosaur

As a real casual player I'm actually finding Rift kind of challenging in a not-too-aggravating way. The OP may need to stick with non-MMOs for a while though, as I'm not entirely sure what sort of challenge he's looking for, but if its one where you have to die over and over again dozens of times before finally getting lucky or doing the exact sequence/actions just right, then most of today's MMO crop is not going to offer that. 

I played Rift and rather enjoyed it for a little bit.  Not too difficult but still somewhat fun.  Hit the level cap, got bored, and quit.  Don't misunderstand me, I would consider myself a somewhat casual player too but it seems to me most MMOs just make it easy to the extreme.  I see you played DDO.  I tried that for a couple weeks and I think they did a lot of things right.  Combat could be challaging especially when it is not easy to heal when you are solo-ing and I loved the inclusion of traps.  Also puzzles to solve made you think.  The lack of pollish and extreme use of instancing just got to me.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

5/10/12 2:59:07 PM#58
Originally posted by Shmackpappy
I would consider myself a somewhat casual player too but it seems to me most MMOs just make it easy to the extreme.

There's always ways to make your own challenge in the leveling (or any other) content.

People just don't want to commit to it...I would like the game to hand me "challenge" please. 

Too lazy...to...consciously...look for...challenge...  {eyes cross}

Is it really about challenging yourself, you want to be one of those "doing the impossible" raid-boss-soloing video-maker guys?

Or is it about external validation?

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Skear

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/07
Posts: 9

5/10/12 3:24:52 PM#59

Infantry will be one of the most challenging games youve ever played.

  Shmackpappy

Novice Member

Joined: 12/29/11
Posts: 77

 
OP  5/10/12 3:46:28 PM#60
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by Shmackpappy
I would consider myself a somewhat casual player too but it seems to me most MMOs just make it easy to the extreme.

There's always ways to make your own challenge in the leveling (or any other) content.

People just don't want to commit to it...I would like the game to hand me "challenge" please. 

Too lazy...to...consciously...look for...challenge...  {eyes cross}

Is it really about challenging yourself, you want to be one of those "doing the impossible" raid-boss-soloing video-maker guys?

Or is it about external validation?

Actually, yes, I do expect them to hand me a challenge.  And since I am paying them $15 a month, I don't think that it's unresonable.  If I am playing the game the way it's meant to be played and it's too easy then I'm not about to go out of my way to create a way to make it more challenging.  That's the developers job and it's why I'm paying them.  Since I can't seem gain satisfaction in this I have simply stopped playing MMOs and started playing games that provide the challenge and don't require me to manufacture my own.

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