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News & Features Discussion  » Guild Wars 2: It Just Keeps Getting Better

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82 posts found
  jbombard

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/06/08
Posts: 490

5/08/12 9:54:03 PM#61

While I like the news of it being challenging, it seems bad design to have it more challenging with more people.  I think good design would making it challenging solo and keep the same level of challenge as the group size increases.  If things become too difficult as more people participate, it seems it would discourage grouping as opposed to encourage it.  Instead of people inviting their freinds to come help out, they would be praying for nobody to come so they could actually finish it.  Unless of course these events provide better rewards with more people then there might be a carrot there to do it with more people.


  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 4147

5/08/12 10:04:11 PM#62
Originally posted by jbombard

While I like the news of it being challenging, it seems bad design to have it more challenging with more people.  I think good design would making it challenging solo and keep the same level of challenge as the group size increases.  If things become too difficult as more people participate, it seems it would discourage grouping as opposed to encourage it.  Instead of people inviting their freinds to come help out, they would be praying for nobody to come so they could actually finish it.  Unless of course these events provide better rewards with more people then there might be a carrot there to do it with more people.

Through scaling the challenge level stays the same no matter the amount of people you have. Challenging is challenging. :) The more you do in the event to contribute the bigger your reward is.

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  jbombard

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/06/08
Posts: 490

5/08/12 10:10:40 PM#63

Originally posted by Amjoco


Originally posted by jbombard


While I like the news of it being challenging, it seems bad design to have it more challenging with more people.  I think good design would making it challenging solo and keep the same level of challenge as the group size increases.  If things become too difficult as more people participate, it seems it would discourage grouping as opposed to encourage it.  Instead of people inviting their freinds to come help out, they would be praying for nobody to come so they could actually finish it.  Unless of course these events provide better rewards with more people then there might be a carrot there to do it with more people.



Through scaling the challenge level stays the same no matter the amount of people you have. Challenging is challenging. :) The more you do in the event to contribute the bigger your reward is.



 


Ok, thank you for the explanation.  The story kind of gave me the impression that small numbers made for a decent challenge, but large groups cranked up the difficulty so much that tons of people were dieing and caused the event to fail.  If the later was the case, I am afraid the novelty would wear off quickly and people would be more likely to shun large groups than participate in them.  If the challenge level stays consistent then it is pure win.


  terrant

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/07
Posts: 1685

5/08/12 10:14:54 PM#64
Originally posted by jbombard

Originally posted by Amjoco


Originally posted by jbombard


While I like the news of it being challenging, it seems bad design to have it more challenging with more people.  I think good design would making it challenging solo and keep the same level of challenge as the group size increases.  If things become too difficult as more people participate, it seems it would discourage grouping as opposed to encourage it.  Instead of people inviting their freinds to come help out, they would be praying for nobody to come so they could actually finish it.  Unless of course these events provide better rewards with more people then there might be a carrot there to do it with more people.


Through scaling the challenge level stays the same no matter the amount of people you have. Challenging is challenging. :) The more you do in the event to contribute the bigger your reward is.



 

Ok, thank you for the explanation.  The story kind of gave me the impression that small numbers made for a decent challenge, but large groups cranked up the difficulty so much that tons of people were dieing and caused the event to fail.  If the later was the case, I am afraid the novelty would wear off quickly and people would be more likely to shun large groups than participate in them.  If the challenge level stays consistent then it is pure win.

Don't let it fool you...specific events still need tuning. Flame shaman with more than about 20 people becomes ridiculously hard to kill because of the insane number of mobs spawning. It happens, it just means skillions of deaths.

 

But still, most events are well tuned at any size level I saw, and a good mix of fun and challenge.

  Ashen_X

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/22/10
Posts: 365

5/08/12 10:17:59 PM#65

Originally posted by BadSpock

Very accurate.


I've never died so much in a Beta (or even live MMO) and I absolutely love it.


Getting downed and having to Rally or be healed by other players is just part of the game, the more people in an event the harder the mobs/boss hits and the more you'll be rallying and healing.


I did find as I got higher level with more skills and I got more comfortable with how the combat system REALLY works, I died less and less compared to other people around me.


It really is a paradigm shift - you have to learn to play differently.


You can't just stand there and beat and stuff, and you can't just try and kite everything running in circles.


You will fail at both.


 



 


Technically its not a lie or slander if he only looks at the commentary of people who were displeased with the beta event.


I mean I asked my 2 year old niece if she would rather have a $100 bill or a scoop of icecream. I can now state that 100% of all people asked consider a scoop of vanilla icecream to be worth more than $100.


When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.

  Ashen_X

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/22/10
Posts: 365

5/08/12 10:18:44 PM#66

Originally posted by Ashen_X




Originally posted by BadSpock




Very accurate.




I've never died so much in a Beta (or even live MMO) and I absolutely love it.




Getting downed and having to Rally or be healed by other players is just part of the game, the more people in an event the harder the mobs/boss hits and the more you'll be rallying and healing.




I did find as I got higher level with more skills and I got more comfortable with how the combat system REALLY works, I died less and less compared to other people around me.




It really is a paradigm shift - you have to learn to play differently.




You can't just stand there and beat and stuff, and you can't just try and kite everything running in circles.




You will fail at both.




 







 




Technically its not a lie or slander if he only looks at the commentary of people who were displeased with the beta event.




I mean I asked my 2 year old niece if she would rather have a $100 bill or a scoop of icecream. I can now accurately state that 100% of all people asked (by me) consider a scoop of vanilla icecream to be worth more than $100.





 


 


When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.

  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 4147

5/08/12 10:22:09 PM#67
Originally posted by jbombard

Originally posted by Amjoco


Originally posted by jbombard


While I like the news of it being challenging, it seems bad design to have it more challenging with more people.  I think good design would making it challenging solo and keep the same level of challenge as the group size increases.  If things become too difficult as more people participate, it seems it would discourage grouping as opposed to encourage it.  Instead of people inviting their freinds to come help out, they would be praying for nobody to come so they could actually finish it.  Unless of course these events provide better rewards with more people then there might be a carrot there to do it with more people.


Through scaling the challenge level stays the same no matter the amount of people you have. Challenging is challenging. :) The more you do in the event to contribute the bigger your reward is.



 

Ok, thank you for the explanation.  The story kind of gave me the impression that small numbers made for a decent challenge, but large groups cranked up the difficulty so much that tons of people were dieing and caused the event to fail.  If the later was the case, I am afraid the novelty would wear off quickly and people would be more likely to shun large groups than participate in them.  If the challenge level stays consistent then it is pure win.

You are more than welcome. This video shows some Dynamic Events and the guy does pretty good explaining it a bit. Event This one also! Consequences.  Have fun

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 4147

5/08/12 10:26:46 PM#68
Originally posted by terrant
Originally posted by jbombard

Originally posted by Amjoco


Originally posted by jbombard


While I like the news of it being challenging, it seems bad design to have it more challenging with more people.  I think good design would making it challenging solo and keep the same level of challenge as the group size increases.  If things become too difficult as more people participate, it seems it would discourage grouping as opposed to encourage it.  Instead of people inviting their freinds to come help out, they would be praying for nobody to come so they could actually finish it.  Unless of course these events provide better rewards with more people then there might be a carrot there to do it with more people.


Through scaling the challenge level stays the same no matter the amount of people you have. Challenging is challenging. :) The more you do in the event to contribute the bigger your reward is.



 

Ok, thank you for the explanation.  The story kind of gave me the impression that small numbers made for a decent challenge, but large groups cranked up the difficulty so much that tons of people were dieing and caused the event to fail.  If the later was the case, I am afraid the novelty would wear off quickly and people would be more likely to shun large groups than participate in them.  If the challenge level stays consistent then it is pure win.

Don't let it fool you...specific events still need tuning. Flame shaman with more than about 20 people becomes ridiculously hard to kill because of the insane number of mobs spawning. It happens, it just means skillions of deaths.

 

But still, most events are well tuned at any size level I saw, and a good mix of fun and challenge.

So my simplistic explanation has now become muddied. dang. He will have to look up Flame Shaman.  Now you explain it to him! :) 

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  optikon

Novice Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 3

5/08/12 11:18:11 PM#69

Originally posted by Betaguy

*yawn* Feels like Warhammer I played it, game is not that great. Nice writing though.


Doesnt feel even remotely like Warhammer.Your pretty funny.


 


 


Optikon

  optikon

Novice Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 3

5/08/12 11:22:07 PM#70

Originally posted by BadSpock

Where the heck are you looking to find 50% of people who disliked the BWE?


Seriously man, the interwebs in general and every MMO site is just beaming with praise for this game.


You don't like it? Fine, to each their own, but please for the love of God can we stop with the lies and slander?


I'm sorry someone pissed in your cheerios, I really hope ya'll find a game you can get excited about too.


 


Let us have ours.


 


Here's a hint: Being excited and happy is a GOOD THING! I'm tired of all the negativity and disappointment.


Go watch some "Debby Downer" skits from SNL and then look in a mirror.


 


GW2 does just keep getting better, the more I go back and analyze what I really enjoyed and questioned in the game etc. post-BWE the more I want to play more and the more I realize how different things really are done in GW2 and especially how different it feels.


 Hehehe I love you man.Seriously you are spot on.Ive only had the pleasure of this past BWE and I had more fun in that than any other full on MMO in years.I am So looking forward to this game.



 


 


Optikon

  optikon

Novice Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 3

5/08/12 11:28:01 PM#71



Originally posted by ElVisitante



The tone of this article is so far from objective it's ridiculous. He "attacked again in a fit of rage" because a bandit dodged his attack? Being impressed is one thing, overexaggerating is another (unless he really did start raging, in which case this guy is way too easily excited and impressed).








Oh, and the reason no one was talking about other games in the beta was because the majority of the people in the beta were pre-purchasers who essentially knew they would love the game anyway. Open the floodgates and offer an open beta and I guarantee there will be people who think GW2 is terrible and who will compare it to other games.




Thus the stupidity of the MMO Community at Large.If there were no MMOs and all we had were dozens of different Ice Cream shops several different groups would pick different Shops then proceed to bash all the others.Hell if they could they would throw Icecream at each other .Im glad MMOs are Virtual worlds or we would all be in trouble.



I know silly analogy but its the reality of our geeky world.






 




 





 

Optikon

  Goreson

Novice Member

Joined: 1/26/11
Posts: 128

5/09/12 1:02:55 AM#72

Originally posted by BadSpock

You don't like it? Fine, to each their own, but please for the love of God can we stop with the lies and slander?


I'm sorry someone pissed in your cheerios, I really hope ya'll find a game you can get excited about too. 


Let us have ours. 


Here's a hint: Being excited and happy is a GOOD THING! I'm tired of all the negativity and disappointment.


Go watch some "Debby Downer" skits from SNL and then look in a mirror. 



 


Wow, isn't that a fantastic attitude?


I mean of course if you think that the game is great, superduper, fantastic, besteverwithcherryontop, how dare those who are not that happy with the game voice their opinion?


Afterall, it's "your" game, not potentially "anybody who maybe be willing to buy the game"'s game...


So, here is a hint for you: to criticize a game is a good thing because it will make people (gamers, game designers) aware of potential issues with that game.


I'm glad that you are happy and excited for GW2.


If you are tired of all the negativity others show, ignore them.


If you are tired of all the disappointment... well, not really sure what to suggest...


If it's disappointment expressed by others, well, I guess to ignore what they are saying would be the best option, again.


If on the other hand it's your own disappointment that you are tired of, well, stop playing games? Stop living your life? Escape into the steady high of drugs? Because your own disappointment is your own thing, nothing somebody else can do much about...


  vmoped

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 1722

5/09/12 6:46:24 AM#73
Originally posted by Indol

*cheers* Game feels utterly fantastic, and is great.




 




It actually felt like a true mmo experience. This is the first time i've felt that since playing the 'originals' (Ultima Online, Everquest, Asheron's Call and Dark Age of Camelot).





 

 

Exactly how I feel mate. This is the first mmo in a long time that pulled me in resulting in loss of time. The buggers at Anet have given me a taste of their drug and I am hooked! Cheers!

MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S

  BereKin

Novice Member

Joined: 1/22/12
Posts: 285

5/09/12 6:47:06 AM#74

I dont know what is the problem. There are always going to be people who like some particular game and people who dont like it. Everybody to there perspective, I say. For me, as a long time Guild Wars player, I cant wait to start playing GW2 for real.


 


  xenogias

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/13/07
Posts: 1945

5/09/12 7:01:21 AM#75
Originally posted by Betaguy

*yawn* Feels like Warhammer I played it, game is not that great. Nice writing though.

I highly doubt you played it if you say its WAR. I however did play both. The idea behind the dynamic system is the same but it ends there. WAR implimented the idea horribly. I think a person could say the heart events are the same as the WAR system and thats the extent of it.

 

As to the article. Try playing a melee next time and tell me things dont need adjusted. I did several events with both a ranged and melee character and ranged is by FAR the easier to play.  I dont think they need sweeping changes. Hell just being able to see the bosses animations would be a 100% improvment. When I was in groups of 10+ the particle effects would always be so bad as a melee I couldnt even see the boss.

  xenogias

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/13/07
Posts: 1945

5/09/12 7:02:44 AM#76
Originally posted by Nimar

I dont know what is the problem. There are always going to be people who like some particular game and people who dont like it. Everybody to there perspective, I say. For me, as a long time Guild Wars player, I cant wait to start playing GW2 for real.


 

Oh I agree people have diffrent opinions. And I respect anyone who says "I just dont like it" and gives real reasons. But all this "Its just WAR 2.0" crap drives me nuts. If you have played both you know full well the diffrences, even if you do not like them.

  jayarte

Novice Member

Joined: 8/21/09
Posts: 450

5/09/12 11:10:23 AM#77
Originally posted by Boardwalker

I'm looking forward to GW2. I like what I've been hearing, and hope that its gameplay can meet the high expectations.


What I don't like is all the bashing of WAR. WAR was and is a fine game, and made some innovative additions to the MMO genre. Yes, the population is way down, but when I played it was a lot of fun, and I see that GW2 has picked up on some of its better features. I have no problem with that. I'm all for new games iterating on the successful features of the games that came before it.


But let's not bash WAR to prop up GW2. WAR doesn't deserve that, and GW2 doesn't need it.

Well said.  I've noticed this trend in other genre's, too.  For example, some book reviewers will state (on the cover of a book) that the author under review is far superior to some other author.  Why? 

 

Same with games; there's no need to be negative about one game in order to promote another.  Why bother?  Sure it's fine to draw comparisons, helpful even for people who have played one of the games being compared but not the other, but stating that one game is crap whilst the other is pefect is just pointless.

 

Also, it makes me laugh that people try to "prove" each other "right or wrong" as if we were talking about objective facts, rather than opinion.  Not to mention, as I've said so many times (*yawns at self*) how on earth do people get so worked up about ruddy games?  There are so many things in the world of real importance where you can place your angry energy and strive for some change, but games ... a leisure pastime ... I mean, come on.

 

I enjoyed the write-up because I've deliberately held back from advancing too much into the game so as to keep that "fresh" feeling for launch, so I hadn't really noticed the AI scaling up, but now I think about it I did have that experience with those pesky bandits and the water.  At the time I didn't twig what was happening (ie deliberate scaling to match number of players at event) because GW2 has so many exciting features I occasionally forget one.  Sounds like a great idea which will make combat so much more engaging.

  Pratt2112

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1303

5/09/12 1:38:08 PM#78



Originally posted by Asamof



I've heard people cry about GW2 because the trailers were "misleading" and they were expecting DMC combat


the crowds are really overhyping themselves on this one. hopefully the game doesn't disappear as fast as your typical WoW killer mmo


the one advantage GW2 has is that they're actually experimenting with the formula, where every previous big budget MMO (poorly) emulated the formula while forcefully shoving in gimmicks (combo systems, winged flight, good/evil quest choices)


 "no wait everyone! our game really is different and unique!"


the mmosheep herd fall for it everytime, then act surprised when they realize how mediocre the core game really is

 



I dunno how GW2 will pan out, but I'm getting TOR deja vu every time I read a column, or the following poster commentary.


I'm curious to see if all the hoopla suddenly dies down post-launch, once people have gotten over the newness of it, the honeymoon phase ends, and they're "just playing the game", like it did for TOR. That's when the cracks begin to show, the glitches become more apparent the imbalances, the poor design elements, etc. It's when the genuine criticism starts coming out from numerous sources based not on hype or limited exposure to the game, but on significant hands-on experience with it.


Then we'll see how GW2 really stacks up against all the hype and praise being thrown at it now.


I'm not saying GW2 is or will be a bad game. I'm sure it'll be a fun game, just as the original was. I just have a really difficult time finding anything that resembles a level-headed opinion of the game during beta phases, because people are so given to hyperbole and lavish praise over a game they've only gotten to experience in "bite size chunks".




 




 





 

  tank-n-spank

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/11
Posts: 23

5/09/12 3:38:34 PM#79

I found GW2 to be very underwhelming in the BWE.


I enjoyed the difficulty (that IS a breath of fresh air in a 2012 MMO, something I haven't really seen since classics like EQ and UO) and the WvWvW combat/conquest looked fun.  The rest, however, came across as very gimmicky or just a new face put on features we've seen before.


We've already seen DEs under other names in WAR and Rift.  GW2 refines that a little, but fails to keep them from quickly becoming repetitive and boring.  Plus the much touted effect on the world is nil.


The active combat is gimmicky and simply exchanges reacting to a cast bar or ability warning for reacting to an animation.  It feeks like a hybrid of WoW and Mortal Kombat which is held back from being intense and fun by very limited energy and cooldowns / GCD.  On the other hand it demands enough attention that you can't just mechanically do it while focusing on some other aspect of the game that might be more enjoyable.











  bilal1019

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/12
Posts: 6

5/10/12 4:25:22 AM#80

I can't wait to start playing GW2 for real


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