AC2 was a fun game out of the box.  Almost immediately, Turbies started waving the dreaded "tweaking" bat and nerfed their player base into non-existance.  From this exerpt of Q&A, I can easily tell that they STILL don't get it!

People want to ENJOY games - they play them to have FUN - not to WORK.  People want their characyers to evolve at a noticable rate.  People don't want to go slow - they like to move fast.  It was fun in beta, and it was fun until 8 or 9 months after release.  Then it became the same ol' same ol' "lets nerf everybody till they are the same.... God forbid a Defender sholud be able to **gasp** solo!"

If Turbine doesn't start putting the "fun factor" back in (and I give them kudos for doing so in AC 2 beta) and leaving it in, (like maybe let your build team have some input on the maintenance team),then both LoTR online and D&D are as doomed as this once great game was.

We can only hope that Turbine has learned from AC2, and doesn't repeat some of the same errors in their upcoming games. Unfortunately for AC2, it was caught in the middle of a power struggle between Turbine and Microsoft, and simply never recovered.

AC2 didn't really break any new ground for MMORPGs. Sure, the graphics were awesome, but everything new about AC2 (compared to AC1) was not really new. Yes, beta and the first few months were fun, but once the server consolidation took place, the handwriting was on the wall. It tried too hard to rest on the AC name, but really didn't live up to anyone's expectations of a sequel to Asheron's Call: In the final analysis, it stole place names, race names, and a tiny bit of the lore from its parent--but didn't live up to the promise.

RIP, AC2.

I'm a 5-year subscriber to AC1. I did the AC2 beta and subscribed for a couple months at release, then again a year or so later. While the game had some great tech going for it, it was still really broken for a long, long time.

First thing that comes to mind was the rampant "perching" of tyrants, huge creatures with tons of XP. Players could get them stuck on the landscape and rack up big. Turbine allowed this to go on for much too long, just like they allowed XP "chains" to go on in AC1 for years. The XP chains were just the player's response to a core feature of the game, which allowed players to swear allegiance to other players of equal or higher level and "pass up" a percentage of their earned XP. Trouble was, the XP snowballed "up the chain" so that entire hierarchies of players amassed huge pools of experience for almost nothing.

Granted, this is old news and Turbine eventually fixed the problems, but not until both issues changed their respective games so much that content had to be tailored for these hyper-advanced player populations.

I only hope Turbine has learned some lessons for their upcoming D&D Online and LOTR Online.

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So they are counterproductive, unlike sequels in other game genres where they can be really successful.

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This one causes a palm plant. No, I wouldn't call sequels counter productive. What I would call counter productive is making a sequel that's so different from the first as to be something completely different, not to mention down right cheesy.

AC1 was a fun game back when I played it. There's a lot of good things about it. It wasn't some hokey game with characters running around beating drums as an attack.

I mean no disrespect to anyone who actually enjoyed AC2, but from my point of view the game was cheesy and boring. It deviated so far from what I saw as the AC1 spirit and fun that I had no desire to continue playing it.

Sequels counter productive... heh, what was counter productive about AC2 is that it was lame.

~Me

I played from jan '04 till last weekend, will cancel my account this week.

This was and still is the best game for me, a skillsystem that really is fun, you can play solo as well as in groups, you don't have to hunt mobs to advance, there are enough quests to do, it all was good, except: Marketing.

It's funny to read that Q&A, I'm not surprised at all, that ac1 is still going on, and ac2 is not, Turbine never meant too. The answer were they told us, that they advertised on websites and magazines, it's simply not true. I read a lot of magazines, most of them lately to check if anything is written about ac2, and it wasn't. And I only found 1 ad at an website, and that was an ac2 fansite, how should that attract the attention of retired or new players?

And one question was really good, you feel really tricked, if you buy a new addon for the game just to hear a little later, the game is going down. I think providing ther servercode, to make a playerrun server is the least they can do, and if the game is really unrescuable, than what do they fear for?

Good luck for those who will play LotR or DDo, I won't be tricked a second time by Turbine, there are other games out there, and even if they will never be what AC2 was, they aren't at least Turbine games.

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Originally posted by Derex

I played from jan '04 till last weekend, will cancel my account this week.

This was and still is the best game for me, a skillsystem that really is fun, you can play solo as well as in groups, you don't have to hunt mobs to advance, there are enough quests to do, it all was good, except: Marketing.

It's funny to read that Q&A, I'm not surprised at all, that ac1 is still going on, and ac2 is not, Turbine never meant too. The answer were they told us, that they advertised on websites and magazines, it's simply not true. I read a lot of magazines, most of them lately to check if anything is written about ac2, and it wasn't. And I only found 1 ad at an website, and that was an ac2 fansite, how should that attract the attention of retired or new players?

And one question was really good, you feel really tricked, if you buy a new addon for the game just to hear a little later, the game is going down. I think providing ther servercode, to make a playerrun server is the least they can do, and if the game is really unrescuable, than what do they fear for?

Good luck for those who will play LotR or DDo, I won't be tricked a second time by Turbine, there are other games out there, and even if they will never be what AC2 was, they aren't at least Turbine games.

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I can confirm that Turbine ran a large ad campaign for "Legions" here at MMORPG.com in May 2005 and also ran a contest at the same time giving away free swag and games.  I also know for a fact that this same campaign ran on the Warcry network and GameSpot.com (saw ads on both sites while ours were running).

Marketing didn't kill AC2...

AC2 just wasn't a good game, nor did it appeal to a large population.

Good games market themselves, unfortunately bad ones do as well.

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Originally posted by Paldarion
(snip)
People don't want to go slow - they like to move fast.
(snip)

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I would like to humbly disagree with this statement. I don't enjoy a game in which everything is handed to me on a silver platter. Yes, it is great to actually see the experience moving up at each kill, and yes, it is nice to have a warrior running around after a week able to heal themselves and casting spells thanks to items... but this is immediate satisfaction, and it lasts for only so long.

The games that I still play, or remember with fondness, are the ones that are/were *reasonably* difficult, to provide me with a sense of achievement. I have never, and will never play WoW for the same exact reason you mentioned : people wanted it fast (and easy). All that people get in heading that way are pizza delivery buttons in the end.

A game should bring variety, it should bring challenges at every level, it should favour human interaction but allow many different playing styles (grouping, soloing, raiding style guild, family style guild, etc.)

Once for all, please stop generalizing about what people want to find in a game, or transposing what *you* want, it is becoming a bad habit on these boards.

Obviously, AC2 didn't provide enough of that, eh Nissa?

I loved the way Hannah danced around the last question, which was the best of all of the questions. (Other than how many were subscribing when they pulled the plug?)

"There are many factors that contributed to AC2’s ultimate fate, and it’s really hard to single one factor out above the others. There are a lot of things that Turbine has learned from AC2, and we’re constantly applying those lessons to Dungeons & Dragons Online and Lord of the Rings Online."

*translation* AC2 sucked big-time and not enough people were playing it. Lesson learned? Make sure DDO and LOTR Online don't suck.

With two premier 'A' quality MMORPGs coming out in 2006, why throw any more cash at a sinking ship like AC2? Put those assets (and talent) into titles that will matter. Both of those titles already have legions (hundreds of thousands) of fans ready to give them a shot. Just like WoW. Something AC2 never had going for it.

Not trying to defend AC2, I've never played it.

I was just interested in reading the interview, and more specificially about the reasons provided to explain the failure of the game. If I could concur with many posters in this thread bringing up objective and valid points, the one I quoted was not.

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Originally posted by Paldarion
AC2 was a fun game out of the box. Almost immediately, Turbies started waving the dreaded "tweaking" bat and nerfed their player base into non-existance. From this exerpt of Q&A, I can easily tell that they STILL don't get it!

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The problem is, they had feedback after feedback from players. People started dropping like flies, yet they still didn't listen. Truly it boggles the mind as to why they kept up the same actions that were so obviously destroying the game and alienating most of their player base.

Obviously there were a few loyal fans that stuck around. Just not enough to support the game.

Turbine really makes a bad impression as a company.
A) They shut down the game right after the expansion.
B) They dodged most of the pertinent questions in the interview here. This leads me to believe that they have learned nothing from the mistakes they made with AC2. Good luck on DDO and LOTR guys... An upstanding company would admit their mistakes.
C) They won't release the server for other people to host their own games. Why NOT? They have proven again that they could care less about their fans. Who is it going to hurt? It's not going to compete with legitimate servers, because they are turning those off. They just figure since they couldn't do it, they don't want anyone else to either.

It makes me wonder. What happens if you invest a ton of time in DDO, and they decide to shut it down, or LOTR? I'd like to think that they'd be good enough to at least give out a working copy of the server. But nope, not Turbine.

Sorry guys, you have made a HUGE mistake. Even shutting down the servers you could have maintained some raport with your fans by providing them with a way to keep playing. I'll be surprised if ANY of the upcoming Turbine games are considered a retail success.

All I can say is Rest In Peace AC2. I've played AC2 beta and about 6-8 months after it went Live. It was fun until the nerf bat came swinging. Unlike AC1, AC2 didn't have too much content and lore going for it so I guess even the most ardent of fans simply gave up. Yeah I remember back then people were soloing Tyrants easily (end game dragons that is meant to be defeated by many players). Oh well, I hope Turbine puts in their best talent and resources for DDO and LOTR and make it one hell of a great game that is at par or even surpases AC1.

[quote=Administrator]I can confirm that Turbine ran a large ad campaign for "Legions" here at MMORPG.com in May 2005 and also ran a contest at the same time giving away free swag and games. I also know for a fact that this same campaign ran on the Warcry network and GameSpot.com (saw ads on both sites while ours were running).[/quote]

Sry forgot to mention, I'm from Europe, I talked about our magazins, but I only can say what I heard of the US players, and they didn't see much ad.

Well..from my point of view AC2 was a fun game and actually reminds me alot of a game that has huge success right now..

It had it's own cartonish style and was based on action and fast paced combat, leveling wasn't slow and graphichs was totally on par with just about anything today part from EQ2, hell the graphics in AC2 was much better than WoW in my opinion atleast.

also had a great crefting system on par with all the others out there.

What it sadly didn't have for some odd reason was players, but when i told my friends about AC2 and they tried it, they all stayed in the game..and they really enjoyed it. So my conclusion is this, when it all went bad in the start they simply scared the players to much for most of them to ever return, and the rumours also went rampage how bad AC2 really was etc, and this they newer recovered from..

Why not go for a "free" subscription plan like Anarchy online with advertising, and those that wish to contribute with their monthly fee doesn't get the adds..Well, just an idea..!!

I had a god time in AC2 and will always remeber it..RIP

"No. We have no plans to open source the server code."

As sorry as I am for them...that would be the GREATEST move ever done by a mmo company. If your game is dead etc etc etc...

And you release the source...my god.

I wish you would of had a follow up question as to why...seriously.

But oh well, good interview.