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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » SWTOR subs dip from 1.7 Million to 1.3

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396 posts found
  spizz

Novice Member

Joined: 7/11/04
Posts: 2591

5/08/12 10:19:41 PM#341

1.3 million subscriber ? ......

 

 

* the free 30 days are still running

* trial players are included

* only recently they added a huge new market with east europe and middle east:

 --> around 40 new countries opened to the market  in April

 

The decline of subs seems to be a trend currently, depending also on the new countries recently added to the market but at the end a part of the new players will react similar. Actually the decline of subscribtion has beend predicted and isnt really surprising.

  Sabic133

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/07
Posts: 46

5/08/12 11:39:29 PM#342
Originally posted by Fratman

Bioware/EA basically spent 200 million dollars to barely hold the spot for 2nd best mmo for a few months until GW2 comes out. Ouch.

The worst part will actually be 2-3 years from now when games like Titan and WOD completely put the nail in the coffin of themepark grinders like SWTOR. 

Has there ever been a game developed with less foresight and respect for its playerbase? Bioware actually thought people were going to spend the next 5 years or more grinding out purples in their WoW clone. It boggles the mind that no one on their development team spoke up and pointed out what a bad idea it would be to release a game like this in 2011.

Haha, it would be comical if blizzard hit the market with a deep sandbox MMO next, then remained at the top of the MMO market for the next decade.  

1.2 mil is about what I expected after the 1.7 announcement.  The game just doesn't have anything to do once you finish the quests and raids.  

  Bushi13

Novice Member

Joined: 4/17/12
Posts: 124

5/09/12 12:01:40 AM#343

EVen if it is a cash sink they still got more money than most of game studios to support SWTOR untill it become something descent that a lot of player would want to play.

If GW2 is not to fast to publish they might actually get a nice player base.

With that amount of money the rest is all bull****

Diablow 3, it sucks ...

  Xenostalker

Novice Member

Joined: 1/20/12
Posts: 6

5/09/12 12:55:21 AM#344

I'm not surpised at the number drops that keep popping up everywhere.

I was like the 8th or something person to level cap on my server and even began raiding... the game is just completely terrible. Quit before my 1st month ran out. The only gimmick I really enjoyed was having your own ship to travel around in.

Also, Huttball was an absolute blast but the crappy UI and ability queue system (a monstrosity to MMOs, one of the worst implementations of all time for the genre) made it less appealing after x amount of games (I want to stun the target now not 3 seconds later; and this is all coming from a powerful PC and network, not to mention the issue was pretty common on the forums).

Well.... digression aside, the developers nailed up the coffin before it was even released. Why release an unfinished game? Legacy system - nope (was this not a highlight at some point?). Guild banks - nope. Reactive UI - nope. Enjoyable PvP - didn't last (Illum, anyone?). I'm pretty sure there are dozens of things I am missing but I'll just end it there. Was let down, really wanted a SWTOR universe that worked - not to mention the PvP theme was perfect, being a PvP junkie myself.

I doubt SWTOR will hold up with TSW and GW2 on the horizon, especially since their head count includes oddities such as trial accounts and free playtime.

  SolisArith

Novice Member

Joined: 8/11/05
Posts: 10

5/09/12 1:35:19 AM#345

now don't get me wrong.  I've never played TOR so i'm not able to make any judgements about it.  Except i guess the fact that i watched vids on the gameplay and was turned off by the auto attack / whack-a-mole skill system in star wars  (i'd so play if the game was more action driven)

anyways i digress sorry.  but the previous poster made a point i totally agree on.  "Why release an unfinished game?".  Of course the constant reply to this from the forums is "it's just been released wait for the next patch" which laughably enough is the follow up to "It's Open Beta wait til release" and "It's closed beta wait for Open Beta". 

Maybe there are more than a few of us that don't think it's appropriate annymore for a company to charge top shelf prices (80 ish dollars for a box at release, more for collectors etc) for a game that isn't even finished or at least what some would deam (*sp) an acceptable level of completion for the developement cycle.  (who remembers STO releasing and the Klingons having no story arc to cap) 

Perhaps gamers, as some have said before, are older now, expect more from a company and "It will get better X" (asking me to fork out another 3 months in subs for the game to get better) just doesn't cut it anymore when vying for our hard or not so hard earned dollar.

 

Oh and don't forget d3 is out in 7 days w00t.  Sorry saw mostly references to GW2.  got my pre order nom nom nom nom.

 

 

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8152

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

5/09/12 2:29:04 AM#346

So essentially Daniel Erickson, who said a week ago SWTOR had actually gotten more subs, was lying.

Surprise!

People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  daltanious

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 2103

5/09/12 2:31:09 AM#347
Originally posted by JohnShields

I quit playing less than a month after release. Unfortunately I'm still subbed because my 6 year old loves to play it. I keep threatning him that I'll delete it and cancel the sub if he's bad... and oddly enough he keeps doing better after that. :\ I just cant get rid of TOR.

Playing since day 1, sometimes 1 hour per day time schedule permitting, but usually 4 hours at least, sometimes 18 hours strait. Still enjoying a lot and guess will be attracted for at least few months before I will do some detour to Rift or Wow. Ad then back. Best game ever and of all times.

Btw, I'm not 6 years old, im close to 50.

  erictlewis

Novice Member

Joined: 11/08/08
Posts: 3067

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results.

5/09/12 2:48:02 AM#348

Well I paid for a 6 month sub. I was like in 6 months they should be able to show us what they can do.  So far I have 4 empire toons to 50.  At that it just becomes a gear grind/check. My sub expires in August due to the fact they tagged on an extra 30 days.

I will say this, as an swg vet this feels like NGE V1.2.   I quit swg because of the nge and its really to bad thats all we got. Heck even Kotor was better than this game.

It was fun to play the first couple of alts but after all that and the story line its just linear questing, and it becomes very boring.  It is no wonder subs are going down.

The past few weeks I only logged in an hour or so, and that is in prime time and hardly nobody is online. I know its 2:45am CST I just logged into game there were 4 folks on the fleet lol this most certainly not prime time hours,  I could not sleep do to my oldest child be a dirt bag, and in need of an attitude adjustment.

You can add this star wars game to the long list of other star wars games that just did not do justice to the brand.

  AtmaDarkwolf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/08/04
Posts: 364

5/09/12 7:25:59 AM#349

I wonder, if u don't like the game, why are you spending so much energy 'reporting' how it fails.

 

Most people know SWTOR has failed. They made a great single player game and tried to crowbar it into a mmo, bad idea, being bioware, chances are they won't learn, but OTHER companies wil(I Freaking hope, lookin at you TESO and zenimax/bethesda)

 

So why waste the energy. Let it die and feel that pride swell in your chest, but to come to forums and plant the 'Imatroll' flag on your immaginary hill.

 

Go hype in the games u like, or help people, just don't get why people waste so much energy on this.

 

(Don't get me wrong, I can understand people who LIKE something and watch it get destryoed complaining, voicing concerns, etc, but to not 'be intrested' in a product and keep declaring how much it fails while never having actually PAID for, or WANT to pay for the product? It makes no sense.)

  Precusor

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 4766

Aim Bot

5/09/12 7:56:26 AM#350

nm

  noncley

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/16/12
Posts: 654

5/09/12 8:57:05 AM#351

So EA still think people are stupid enough not to know the difference between 'active accounts' and 'paying subscribers'?

It's exactly this mentality that has led to the creation of such a short-term, dead-end game.

  Axehilt

Elite Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 8366

5/09/12 10:14:51 AM#352
Originally posted by iceman00

Except if you look at the way EA's stock has plummetted, especially since the release of TOR, I don't think you'd be calling it a "healthy profit."

And actually, you really don't understand what people don't like.  We don't like the fact that Bioware made essentially a WoW clone, that much is true.

What he is talking about is investor risk/reward.  In other words, maximizing the investors profit margins, not anyone else's.  And the question becomes:  what's the payoff for investing in a game that is bleeding subs pretty fast, and the devs really don't seem to have a clue with how to fix it.  (1.2 only confirmed this.)  That isn't an "arbitrary definition."  It is the classic mechanic behind all decisions to invest money.

You are confusing "risk" in the sense of innovating in the game world, to risk in investing and maximizing profits.  While in some cases they are similiar, this case proves right here they are not so.

You act like EA's stock was purely driven by ToR, which clearly isn't true.

"Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
"There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  Axehilt

Elite Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 8366

5/09/12 10:18:32 AM#353
Originally posted by iceman00

Yeah wasn't sure what to make of that.  WoT is basically just an honordueling skirmish game, and LoL is a dueling skirmish game without the honor on any of the players.  But, it does offer some pretty compelling gameplay for those who like that sorta thing.  Yet certainly isn't an MMO, or a persistent world game for that matter.

Not sure I'd call WoT "honordueling" (wtf does that even mean?).

It's a fantastic game completely marred by premium ammo being pay2win.  If it was only paying for lateral playstyle unlocks like LoL, it'd be great (and I would've not only given them money, but probably given them a lot of money like I did with LoL.)  As it stands, there's no honor in it at all. :P

But that strays offtopic.

"Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
"There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  AegisSaga

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/12
Posts: 33

5/09/12 10:19:35 AM#354

I usually don't like to see games sink, specially games that I know many people enjoy, but a small part of me is smiling. I guess like many others, I just got dissapointed that the game didn't appeal to the veteran MMO players who have had enough of WoW gameplay for the past 7 years and wanted something new.

 

On another note, because of this same reason I'm really worried about TESO. If the Star Wars franchise wasn't enough to save a new "WoW clone" big budget, subscription MMO; then the Elder Scrolls franchise can't possibly do it either. They really need to make their game different or it'll sink just the same. 

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

5/09/12 10:31:15 AM#355
Originally posted by Axehilt

You act like EA's stock was purely driven by ToR, which clearly isn't true.

You act like the companies own report did not list the cost of ToR as the reason for the companies poor results.

And you can try to spin that all you want, it was spoken about by EAs own CEO during the conference call and listed as the reason by the people that rated their stock.

The stock industry states you are wrong, thus you ARE wrong no matter how much you personally like the game.

Your personal opinion does not change what the stock market or the company spending report states is fact.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  Wickedjelly

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

5/09/12 10:44:04 AM#356
Originally posted by Axehilt

You act like EA's stock was purely driven by ToR, which clearly isn't true.

 It certainly isn't the only reason but it has played a significant factor. Don't believe it? Just do a search. Here's the title and sub headline from just one article written in the LA Times:

EA's good earnings eclipsed by loss of Star Wars game subscribers

Electronic Arts shares plunge 10% in after-hours trading on news that the number of Star Wars: The Old Republic subscribers has fallen.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-ct-ea-earns-20120508,0,7656059.story

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  ebonized

Novice Member

Joined: 3/31/11
Posts: 61

5/09/12 12:04:50 PM#357
Originally posted by Monorosso
Originally posted by kartool

I guess all the people who said it would be f2p after 6 months better update their hyperbole.

More like eradicate this incredibly dumb prediction altogether. Game is not going F2P for a very long time, if ever, at this rate.

LOL! 25% of the entire playerbase in 2 months isn't fast enough for you?

  ebonized

Novice Member

Joined: 3/31/11
Posts: 61

5/09/12 12:22:40 PM#358
Originally posted by Fratman

Bioware/EA basically spent 200 million dollars to barely hold the spot for 2nd best mmo for a few months until GW2 comes out. Ouch.

The worst part will actually be 2-3 years from now when games like Titan and WOD completely put the nail in the coffin of themepark grinders like SWTOR. 

Has there ever been a game developed with less foresight and respect for its playerbase? Bioware actually thought people were going to spend the next 5 years or more grinding out purples in their WoW clone. It boggles the mind that no one on their development team spoke up and pointed out what a bad idea it would be to release a game like this in 2011.

exactly. seems pretty damn obvious to most people, but from what I've seen of the SWTOR dev team, they're nearly braindead and absolutely clueless. watching 'update' videos with James Ohlson (sp?) and Gabe Antemelago (sp? lol) is literally cringe worthy - they sound like they have no idea what they're talking about, have never played an MMO let alone their own game, and are reading from some PR cue cards

  ebonized

Novice Member

Joined: 3/31/11
Posts: 61

5/09/12 12:25:40 PM#359
Originally posted by kcypher2000
Originally posted by Fratman

Bioware/EA basically spent 200 million dollars to barely hold the spot for 2nd best mmo for a few months until GW2 comes out. Ouch.

The worst part will actually be 2-3 years from now when games like Titan and WOD completely put the nail in the coffin of themepark grinders like SWTOR. 

Has there ever been a game developed with less foresight and respect for its playerbase? Bioware actually thought people were going to spend the next 5 years or more grinding out purples in their WoW clone. It boggles the mind that no one on their development team spoke up and pointed out what a bad idea it would be to release a game like this in 2011.

And here comes the doom sayers.  Havent you guys also been preaching that WoW will die for like 7 or 8 years now?  

Here is the real kicker, people whine about the end game content being like WoW, then they whine that the end game content does not have a dungeon finder so they can play this end game content exactly like WoW and if it lacked any of these features they would whine that the game is missing something WoW has.

You can't win.  Then again thats only the loud minority of whiners on gaming forums who also hate any Call of Duty or Halo game just because they too are popular. 

It's called being realistic, as opposed to putting on those rose-coloured glasses and pretending losing 25% of your playerbase in 2 months is a good thing. Everything Fratman said is spot on, and if you can't realize that, then you're deluded.

  TheLizardbones

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Joined: 6/11/08
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I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

5/09/12 12:34:05 PM#360


Originally posted by ebonized


Originally posted by kcypher2000


Originally posted by Fratman

Bioware/EA basically spent 200 million dollars to barely hold the spot for 2nd best mmo for a few months until GW2 comes out. Ouch.
The worst part will actually be 2-3 years from now when games like Titan and WOD completely put the nail in the coffin of themepark grinders like SWTOR. 
Has there ever been a game developed with less foresight and respect for its playerbase? Bioware actually thought people were going to spend the next 5 years or more grinding out purples in their WoW clone. It boggles the mind that no one on their development team spoke up and pointed out what a bad idea it would be to release a game like this in 2011.


And here comes the doom sayers.  Havent you guys also been preaching that WoW will die for like 7 or 8 years now?  
Here is the real kicker, people whine about the end game content being like WoW, then they whine that the end game content does not have a dungeon finder so they can play this end game content exactly like WoW and if it lacked any of these features they would whine that the game is missing something WoW has.
You can't win.  Then again thats only the loud minority of whiners on gaming forums who also hate any Call of Duty or Halo game just because they too are popular. 


It's called being realistic, as opposed to putting on those rose-coloured glasses and pretending losing 25% of your playerbase in 2 months is a good thing. Everything Fratman said is spot on, and if you can't realize that, then you're deluded.



It's better than every game since WoW losing at least half their player base or more at the 3 month mark. Being realistic should include not expecting 'success' to equal WoW's behavior. A reasonable expectation is a big release, followed by a drop in sales and subscriptions over time. There will be a period of stability where subs coming in match the subs going out, finally followed by a long sunset where the game tries several different methods to gain new subs (like free to play, trials to level 20, etc.) ending at long last in the game shutting down. Over the lifetime of the game there might be a couple of times when the subs jump up again - releasing in other regions would be a big reason, with expansions causing much smaller increases in subs.

The days of a game running like gang-busters for years are done. WoW was an aberration and it won't repeat. I thought SWToR was a good game, but there's no reason to think they've changed the landscape...it's an MMO and it will go the way of all the other MMO's before it (except WoW of course). It'll just make more money than the others (except WoW of course).

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

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