I hear alot of pay-2-win hate, but I've been playing Warhammer lately and I see /advice channel get spammed alot with gold farmer websites. From 400 gold for $5.84 up to 10000 gold for $146. Also power-levelers.

So my question is whats the difference between pay-2-win / F2P cash shop games and subscription games with gold farmers / power levelers?

In a way I guess, it's a good point.

There is so much WoW gold for sale that Wow is definetly PAY 2 WIN. 

That depends on what you can buy with the gold.

Originally posted by Ergload

I hear alot of pay-2-win hate, but I've been playing Warhammer lately and I see /advice channel get spammed alot with gold farmer websites. From 400 gold for $5.84 up to 10000 gold for $146. Also power-levelers.

So my question is whats the difference between pay-2-win / F2P cash shop games and subscription games with gold farmers / power levelers?

One is official and part of the game design:  F2P.  They put little things while you play to nudge you closer and closer with the temptationt o buy.

The other is not part of the game design, but is sneaked in by a 3rd party:  P2P + Gold Sellers.

Then there's a special thing that I really despise more than F2P.  And those are the titles that are P2P that have official Cash Shops.

If its supported by the company(like in some F2P games) its legal and intended. In a P2P game the company is officially on my(the P2W haters) side.  People that are buying and selling gold/items for RM in a P2P game are cheaters and they are breaking the rules(EULA/TOS). They can be banned. I can report them... It feels good knowing that. Even if its impossible to stop all RM traders.

Originally posted by Gaborik

There is so much WoW gold for sale that Wow is definetly PAY 2 WIN. 

 Gold is so easy to obtain in WoW, it's not really relevant. 

Aslong as there is demand there will be supply no matter what it is. If people use these 3rd parties, which obviously they do, then these gold farmers are going to continue doing what they do as it is how they make money. It has come to my attention that these 3rd parties are used by a much greater percentage of the population then what I had originally thought, not having ever used one myself I guess I never got in with the type. In my mind if the company does not intend their game to be p2w and actively works to eradicate the gold sellers and RMT aspect of the game I would not call it p2w. Only if it is a system that has been implemented by the developer in which people can spend money to be stronger then other people. Exp boosts etc I do not consider p2w items but if you can buy gear (RMAH or cash shop) then I believe it to be p2w.

never needed to buy any gold from any farming ... helper.

so, short answer: no.

long answer: noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

and whoever thinks that goldfarming/selling makes for example WoW p2w should play wow before starting assumptions