From what I  have seen... the basics are a pve game,unlimited skills you can acquire, set in modern day.Has crafting.Has a little player vs player conflict .And thats pretty much it ??

Any other compelling features...or is most of the game still a mystery ?

It's definitely more of a themepark.

The sandbox elements are:

- Classless progression system

- Multiple options for progressing through content

- Deconstructing items to craft ones suited to your spec.

Pretty much all other elements are pure themepark and there isn't much for characters to create in the world in order to create their own experiences.  I believe there is some PvP-related stuff that's somewhat sandboxy, but i don't plan to pvp, so i haven't bothered to look into it.

Oh and in terms of PvE vs. PvP, i'm playing it for the PvE / story, but since there is no large scale PvE content, i would assume that the endgame is largely PvP, making this as much a PvP game.  

I would go as far as to call it a Hybrid, but its definatly more Themepark than Sandbox. The theme of the game and the classless progression is what speaks to me.

Originally posted by arieste

It's definitely more of a themepark.

 

The sandbox elements are:

- Classless progression system

- Multiple options for progressing through content

- Deconstructing items to craft ones suited to your spec.

I agree it's a themepark, full stop.

But what you listed may be some of the PvE sandbox elemtents.

Lets not forget one of the most important PvP sandbox factors. Full loot and no true safe zones.

Originally posted by StarI

 Full loot and no true safe zones.

These have nothing whatsoever to do with being a sandbox.  

You can have a sandbox game without these things and you can have a themepark WITH these things.   These are just PvP rulesets.  If you want an example, just think of the most 100% themepark MMO you can think of.. let's say "SWTOR".  If tomorrow it was made full loot and no safe zones, it would still be 100% themepark.  

Originally posted by Shadanwolf

From what I  have seen... the basics are a pve game,unlimited skills you can acquire, set in modern day.Has crafting.Has a little player vs player conflict .And thats pretty much it ??

Any other compelling features...or is most of the game still a mystery ?

Investigation missions (look stuff up from google and think the clues through)

Sabotage missions (hinder other societies efforts)

Build switching fast and necessary.

Clothes don't affect stats, look how you please and cash shop for more cosmetic items.

Combat fully mobile, every skill can be used on the run.

Really deep story and it slowly reveals once you progress in the game.

Cutscenes with voiceovers.

Good graphics with excellent mood.

SCARY, they are trying to frighten you.

Really challenging dungeons.

And the list goes on...

The PvP is actually quite a large part of the game, especially in the "endgame".

There's 5vs5vs5 and 15vs15vs15 minigames.

50vs50vs50 Persistent warzones.

Originally posted by arieste

These have nothing whatsoever to do with being a sandbox.  

 

You can have a sandbox game without these things and you can have a themepark WITH these things.   These are just PvP rulesets.  If you want an example, just think of the most 100% themepark MMO you can think of.. let's say "SWTOR".  If tomorrow it was made full loot and no safe zones, it would still be 100% themepark.  

Wrong. You probably intentionaly skimmed over the part where I said PvP element. You can't have true PvP sandbox without full loot and no safe zones.

What you can have tho is a PvE sandbox with themepark PvP. With other words, a hybrid full rounded game.

Nice edit btw. Anyway PvP is as much as feature as is PvE. If some peopel only like PvE it doesn't mean PvP is just a ruleset.

Originally posted by StarI

Originally posted by arieste

These have nothing whatsoever to do with being a sandbox.  

 

You can have a sandbox game without these things and you can have a themepark WITH these things.   These are just PvP rulesets.  If you want an example, just think of the most 100% themepark MMO you can think of.. let's say "SWTOR".  If tomorrow it was made full loot and no safe zones, it would still be 100% themepark.  

 

Wrong. You probably intentionaly skimmed over the part where I said PvP element. You can't have true PvP sandbox without full loot and no safe zones.

What you can have tho is a PvE sandbox with themepark PvP. With other words, a hybrid full rounded game.

Well, you're welcome to have your own definition.  Like i said, take a themepark game, add Full Loot and take away safe zones and it still remains a themepark game.  

What makes a game sandbox is world interaction elements that allow for creation of additional gameplay that was not pre-written by the developers.  For example, being able to build a castle and use it to defend from your PvP foes is a sandbox element.  What happens when you kill someone in PvP really is irrelevant. As far as safe zones - being able to build safe zones and determine what the safe conditions are - THIS would be sandbox. If safezones simply exist, it's a 100% dev pre-defined gameplay - themepark.  Is safezones simply don't exist, it's the same thing, 100% dev pre-defined gameplay - themepark.   I guess the same thing can be said for loot - if you're able to set looting threshholds and rules, this would be sandbox, if the loot is simply always 100% full loot or 100% not full loot, then it's a predefined experience - i.e. themepark.

Originally posted by ShakyMo
There is a sandbox element to bother character progression and crafting. But its sat on top of your typical linear themepark, you do the zones of the world in order, it has quests, once you've finished the story its an instance grinder. The game is not a sandbox.

Also its not that pvp either, was once, not anymore. It's sad the devs started listening to the typical anti pvp brigade a year or do back and the game started getting wowified with pve massively overtaking pvp in priority, hiden levels in the form of weapeon skills, linear progress from playfield to playfield etc..

You are able to do the zones how ever you feel. From the moment you walk into the game, you can hit the toughest boss in the game. Direction and difficulty is up to you.

WHat I want to know is, is it closer to AOC or AO in it's gameplay?

Originally posted by Distopia

WHat I want to know is, is it closer to AOC or AO in it's gameplay?

I haven't played it myself, but i would think AoC combat + AO character progression.   (obviously not exactly, but closest to)

swg was a sandbox game, tsw is a themepark mmo with a classless system.

Originally posted by arieste

Well, you're welcome to have your own definition.  Like i said, take a themepark game, add Full Loot and take away safe zones and it still remains a themepark game.  

 

What makes a game sandbox is world interaction elements that allow for creation of additional gameplay that was not pre-written by the developers.  For example, being able to build a castle and use it to defend from your PvP foes is a sandbox element.  What happens when you kill someone in PvP really is irrelevant. As far as safe zones - being able to build safe zones and determine what the safe conditions are - THIS would be sandbox. If safezones simply exist, it's a 100% dev pre-defined gameplay - themepark.  Is safezones simply don't exist, it's the same thing, 100% dev pre-defined gameplay - themepark.   I guess the same thing can be said for loot - if you're able to set looting threshholds and rules, this would be sandbox, if the loot is simply always 100% full loot or 100% not full loot, then it's a predefined experience - i.e. themepark.

a) WoW exactly as it is, but with full loot and no safe zones would be nothing but a masterpiece idiocy. There is a reason why there is no such game on market, or if it was i'm sure it died before it really came out. Or can you serve me with real, non imaginary examples?

b) You can not build a castle in a game if developers didn't decide and implement a feature with elements that makes it possible to build. EVERYTHING possible to make in a game is prewritten by developers. You have a serious logical problem if you think in a sandbox game you can make stuff out of thin air.

A REAL sandbox element in this case is the chance of keeping or loosing this said castle. If you build it and have it forever, than this is pure themepark. But you can build castles in both, themepark and sandbox. The difference is in sandbox your castle can get destroyed, taken over, or looted, whereas in themepark game no such horible thing can happen and you are protected by game mechanics.

Originally posted by arieste
  What happens when you kill someone in PvP really is irrelevant. As far as safe zones - being able to build safe zones and determine what the safe conditions are - THIS would be sandbox. If safezones simply exist, it's a 100% dev pre-defined gameplay - themepark.  Is safezones simply don't exist, it's the same thing, 100% dev pre-defined gameplay - themepark.   I guess the same thing can be said for loot - if you're able to set looting threshholds and rules, this would be sandbox, if the loot is simply always 100% full loot or 100% not full loot, then it's a predefined experience - i.e. themepark.

An online empty zone is not "safe" or "not safe" by default. People need to come in this zone and than they decide what they want.

In a PvP Sandbox, "no safe" zones are only safe or not safe as much as people want themself. THIS is TRUE sandbox element. THIS is something  devs can't pre script. They can't prescript how people will act and live day by day. They can only prescipt tools such as building castles and offer more content. Building a castle would already go under PvE. Making sure you keep it (if you can loose to players) is PvP tho.  Exactly the same is on gear level. Loosing something in PvP IS a sandbox feature, not themepark. PvP Sandboxes does (else it's not true sandbox!). 

For a good PvP Sandbox, a big world, territory and resource control, full loot and no real safe zones is ALL YOU NEED. The rest is building a good PvE side of your sanbox game to support itself as much as PvP.

By reading your response I can only conclude  you have no clue what differences are and your logic is downright retarded.

Come up with something worthwile discussing please or we can finish this here.

     Its funny but with the 3 factions I figured it would be more of a PVP game with PVE elements (kinda like DAoC)....... From what I have seen and heard though it sounds like its more PVE based.

Originally posted by StarI

For a good PvP Sandbox, a big world, territory and resource control, full loot and no real safe zones is ALL YOU NEED. The rest is building a good PvE side of your sanbox game to support itself as much as PvP.

You identified 4 things there that according to YOU make a sandbox game:

1.  big world

2.  territory / resource control

3.  full loot

4.  no safe zones.

Only one of them really has anything to do with being a sandbox (territory/resource control).  Use whatever game you want for example.  The world's two best sandboxes are EVE and (rip) SWG.   Neither one has all 4 of these elements.  Yet there they are - amazing sandbox games.

EVE has 3/4 (it has safe zones, so it doesn't qualify for #4). 

But let's take EVE as it's generally accepted not only as the best sandbox, btu the best PvP MMO ever made.

1.  It has a big world.  If you take a big world away from EVE and let's say limit it to 20 systems.  Does it become a themepark MMO?  Absolutely not.  So, big world not required to be sandbox.  Let's take a different example, TOR, it has a MASSIVE world, does that make it a sandbox?  Absolutely not.  So, big world not required.

2.  It has territory / resource control.  Take it away, does it remain a sandbox?  In my opinion, no.  You take away territory control and resources and it's just a game where for PvE you run missions like any themepark and for PvP you kill random people for no reason at all.  So, this feature definitely is something that makes the game sandbox.  (it's obviously not the only thing).  I can't think of any game that had Territory and Resource control that wasn't at the LEAST a hybrid.  The inclusion of this feature takes it away from themepark on its own.

3.  EVE has looting (sorry, i'm not sure if it's 100% full loot).  If you take looting out of EVE, does it become a themepark game?  Absolutely not.  PvP still exists and still exists for many good reasons (i.e. Territory and Resource control).  And i'm not disputing whether TOR with full loot would be retarded or not.  It is YOUR contention that Full Loot makes a game more sandbox.  I know that if i add territory  / resource control to TOR, it'll be a more sandbox game.  You yourself admit that adding full loot to it will just make it retarded.  So, in a weird way, we agree that full loot is not what makes a sandbox game into a sandbox.

4.  No safe zones.  Best PvP sandbox games i've played have been Shadowbane and EVE, somewhat less sandboxy were AoC and AO.  All 4 have safe zones.  It didn't  prevent them from being sandbox games.   Again, remove safezones from TOR or EQ2 or WoW or whatever... these games have PvP servers with lack (or limited) safe zones.  Gameplay on those servers isn't anymore sandbox.    

If you don't like my examples, you're welcome to provide you own.  GIve me an example of any Themepark game that with added Full Loot and removal of safe zones would become a Sandbox game due to those factors.  Or give me an example of an accepted sandbox games, that without those two features would become a themepark.

Originally posted by Theocritus

     Its funny but with the 3 factions I figured it would be more of a PVP game with PVE elements (kinda like DAoC)....... From what I have seen and heard though it sounds like its more PVE based.

I think it offers both.  Being a 3 faction game gives it more interest in the PvP area vs. other themepark games that only have 2 factions.

PvE is going to be a big thing for this game though.

It's story driven gameplay (ala SWTOR) meets classless and levelless skill system

Originally posted by GoldenArrow

Originally posted by Shadanwolf

From what I  have seen... the basics are a pve game,unlimited skills you can acquire, set in modern day.Has crafting.Has a little player vs player conflict .And thats pretty much it ??

Any other compelling features...or is most of the game still a mystery ?

Investigation missions (look stuff up from google and think the clues through)

Sabotage missions (hinder other societies efforts)

Build switching fast and necessary.

Clothes don't affect stats, look how you please and cash shop for more cosmetic items.

Combat fully mobile, every skill can be used on the run.

Really deep story and it slowly reveals once you progress in the game.

Cutscenes with voiceovers.

Good graphics with excellent mood.

SCARY, they are trying to frighten you.

Really challenging dungeons.

And the list goes on...

 

The PvP is actually quite a large part of the game, especially in the "endgame".

There's 5vs5vs5 and 15vs15vs15 minigames.

50vs50vs50 Persistent warzones.

Of which most of that wont be in at launch