Originally posted by spookytooth

then my question to you would be is it worth the $200million? If you were the boss of EA and you knew then what is known now would you sign off on this game? It occurs to me that noone invests 200m just to peak at 1.7million subs and then watch it slowly drop. The risk/reward doesnt seem to be there. Other companies have cloned WoW for a lot less money.

With the breakeven point being at ~500k subscribers?

And the game has 1.3mm subscribers now?

Abso-fuckin-lutely!

Your arbitrary definition of "risk vs. reward" is pretty inconsequential if the game is making a healthy profit.

For that matter, you're the one gamer in the world even calling ToR a "risk".  Everyone else's cry has been that it's the exact opposite of a risk and that's why they hate the game and want to see it fail.

Originally posted by kcypher2000

On a side note I do not think SWTOR is perfect, I just think alot of the hatred seems unfounded and most complaints seem totally unfounded for an mmo fan, considering my take of SWTOR is that it played it safe by copying all the conventions done in other mmos like WoW and has done them well.  The only innovative aspect is the emphasis on story. 

 

I really wonder what you complainers like then?  Name an mmo that you are enjoying now.  Cause I have played them all and most share a lot of similar mechanics with SWTOR. 

I just want a game that is fun.  The only reason I got through the free month in SWTOR is that my friends wanted to keep playing.  I couldn't make it through the second month.  It wasn't fun.  Also, those friends have all quit the game as well at this point.

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by kcypher2000

Do you guys even play the game?  LFG is fine, you broadcast you get a group, just like every other mmo before dungeon finders took out that scary chat aspect need in massively multiplayer games.  Rakghoul plague was a community event that brought a lot of gamers on and got them working together. 

 

What end game content are you looking for?  It has pvp it has raids, heroics?  What do you people expect now?  This is my primary complaint about SWTOR naysayers, it seems like you people hate ALL mmos because these problems of grinding, and repetitive end game content are universal in the genre. 

Do you? Because there has only been like how many threads and complaints about the lfg mechanics from the word "go". Get a clue. The current setup is awful and hardly anyone uses it. This has only been said countless times by countless players. The lower the server population and the worse their feeble tool works.

Rakghoul was one event. One. It is a step in the right direction but you need a lot more than that.

The PvP in this game is awful. Or was it so awesome that is why they have essentially scrapped Ilum? The rest still needs work.

I have always told people this game is worth checking out. Just warned many that it may not be a long term investment. Don't believe me? Read over my posts.

Pull your head out of your rear and realize not everyone that speaks of the negatives of this game is a hater or naysayer.

World pvp is dead in the game but its been dead in WoW and most other mmos also.  Even Warhammers world pvp is badly unbalanced.  I have not seen a game execute good world pvp since DAOC.  Rakghoul is one event and the game is new by mmo standards, what do you expect one every week?

LFG works fine, problem is that people expect a dungeon finder to force them into a group without the scary notion of them simply broadcasting at the fleet.  I have never found it hard to get in a group no matter what role i play.  If i see a broadcast for an instance my level i join.  Easy as that.  Just like every other mmo out there. 

Originally posted by kcypher2000

On a side note I do not think SWTOR is perfect, I just think alot of the hatred seems unfounded and most complaints seem totally unfounded for an mmo fan, considering my take of SWTOR is that it played it safe by copying all the conventions done in other mmos like WoW and has done them well.  The only innovative aspect is the emphasis on story. 

 

I really wonder what you complainers like then?  Name an mmo that you are enjoying now.  Cause I have played them all and most share a lot of similar mechanics with SWTOR. 

I still play SWTOR and I still like it quite a bit, but it was a WAY better game pre-1.2.  I think the sweeping class changes were the biggest letdown.  WOW has rollercoaster balancing, and I left that game partly because of it.  For nearly six months SWTOR looked like it wasn't going to pull the same crap, then 1.2 came out and it did the same thing.  The further they differentiate from WOW, the more success SWTOR will have.

Originally posted by kcypher2000

Do you guys even play the game?  LFG is fine, you broadcast you get a group, just like every other mmo before dungeon finders took out that scary chat aspect need in massively multiplayer games. 

You broadcast, you get a group...in 45 minutes just like every MMO before Dungeon Finders.

Most of us want our game time filled with gameplay.  And most of us don't consider "LFG for Dungeon x, just need a tank!" for 45 minutes to be gameplay.

I wanted to enjoy ToR as a grouping game, but they made it tremendously inconvenient so I quit and went back to RIFT where I can group every time I'm online.

Originally posted by killion81

Originally posted by kcypher2000

On a side note I do not think SWTOR is perfect, I just think alot of the hatred seems unfounded and most complaints seem totally unfounded for an mmo fan, considering my take of SWTOR is that it played it safe by copying all the conventions done in other mmos like WoW and has done them well.  The only innovative aspect is the emphasis on story. 

 

I really wonder what you complainers like then?  Name an mmo that you are enjoying now.  Cause I have played them all and most share a lot of similar mechanics with SWTOR. 

 

I just want a game that is fun.  The only reason I got through the free month in SWTOR is that my friends wanted to keep playing.  I couldn't make it through the second month.  It wasn't fun.  Also, those friends have all quit the game as well at this point.

See if you simply do not enjoy the game then I cannot argue with that, thats your opinion.  My wife and i love it.  To each their own.  My question then is what parts of the game do you find boring?  The combat?  Too much story? 

Cause real gamers should be offering that kind of constructive feedback in hopes the game would improve.  Simply bragging that a game declined in subs after its high launch number just seems pity like you want the game to fail. 

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by kcypher2000

Do you guys even play the game?  LFG is fine, you broadcast you get a group, just like every other mmo before dungeon finders took out that scary chat aspect need in massively multiplayer games. 

You broadcast, you get a group...in 45 minutes just like every MMO before Dungeon Finders.

Most of us want our game time filled with gameplay.  And most of us don't consider "LFG for Dungeon x, just need a tank!" for 45 minutes to be gameplay.

I wanted to enjoy ToR as a grouping game, but they made it tremendously inconvenient so I quit and went back to RIFT where I can group every time I'm online.

What mmo you playing where all the dungeon finders are instant?  I played rift and WoW and both of those it takes up to an hour sometimes for a dps to find a group. 

Originally posted by Souldrainer

Originally posted by kcypher2000

On a side note I do not think SWTOR is perfect, I just think alot of the hatred seems unfounded and most complaints seem totally unfounded for an mmo fan, considering my take of SWTOR is that it played it safe by copying all the conventions done in other mmos like WoW and has done them well.  The only innovative aspect is the emphasis on story. 

 

I really wonder what you complainers like then?  Name an mmo that you are enjoying now.  Cause I have played them all and most share a lot of similar mechanics with SWTOR. 

I still play SWTOR and I still like it quite a bit, but it was a WAY better game pre-1.2.  I think the sweeping class changes were the biggest letdown.  WOW has rollercoaster balancing, and I left that game partly because of it.  For nearly six months SWTOR looked like it wasn't going to pull the same crap, then 1.2 came out and it did the same thing.  The further they differentiate from WOW, the more success SWTOR will have.

Why do you think so?  Was your class nerfed?  I found 1.2 pretty underwhelming myself and think of the legacy system as only a money sink that benefits my alts.  New warzone is pretty fun though.  My lowbie jedi knight killed some level 40ish sorceror a few times.

Originally posted by kcypher2000

World pvp is dead in the game but its been dead in WoW and most other mmos also.  Even Warhammers world pvp is badly unbalanced.  I have not seen a game execute good world pvp since DAOC.  Rakghoul is one event and the game is new by mmo standards, what do you expect one every week?

LFG works fine, problem is that people expect a dungeon finder to force them into a group without the scary notion of them simply broadcasting at the fleet.  I have never found it hard to get in a group no matter what role i play.  If i see a broadcast for an instance my level i join.  Easy as that.  Just like every other mmo out there. 

 

 

I would have expected them to have those types of thing in from the word go.

I would have expected community building items like things to return to planets for, mini games in cantinas, other events, etc.

The lfg tool does not work fine. You guys can keep beating this drum all you want. That type of stubbornness is exactly the reason this game needs to merge servers. Which ironically even BW themselves said their tool needs work and it is being revamped. Just doesn't seem to be coming soon enough for some unfortunately. But I know...it works fine right?

Go ahead and keep thinking this game doesn't have any glaring issues. That's okay.

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by kcypher2000

World pvp is dead in the game but its been dead in WoW and most other mmos also.  Even Warhammers world pvp is badly unbalanced.  I have not seen a game execute good world pvp since DAOC.  Rakghoul is one event and the game is new by mmo standards, what do you expect one every week?

LFG works fine, problem is that people expect a dungeon finder to force them into a group without the scary notion of them simply broadcasting at the fleet.  I have never found it hard to get in a group no matter what role i play.  If i see a broadcast for an instance my level i join.  Easy as that.  Just like every other mmo out there. 

 

 

I would have expected them to have those types of thing in from the word go.

I would have expected community building items like things to return to planets for, mini games in cantinas, other events, etc.

The lfg tool does not work fine. You guys can keep beating this drum all you want. That type of stubbornness is exactly the reason this game needs to merge servers. Which ironically even BW themselves said their tool needs work and it is being revamped. Just doesn't seem to be coming soon enough for some unfortuantely. But I know...it works fine right?

Go ahead and keep thinking this game doesn't have any glaring issues. That's okay.

Why are you so scared of general chat?  Did the barrens give you PTS?  Are you guys new to MMOs?  Get a guild, or just wait to you see a group, they are always broadcasting on general chat. 

I would love more mini games but thats something I have been asking for in most mmos for years.  That and SWTOR needs real space combat.  Hell buy the SWG card game and throw it in too. 

Originally posted by kcypher2000

Originally posted by killion81

Originally posted by kcypher2000

On a side note I do not think SWTOR is perfect, I just think alot of the hatred seems unfounded and most complaints seem totally unfounded for an mmo fan, considering my take of SWTOR is that it played it safe by copying all the conventions done in other mmos like WoW and has done them well.  The only innovative aspect is the emphasis on story. 

 

I really wonder what you complainers like then?  Name an mmo that you are enjoying now.  Cause I have played them all and most share a lot of similar mechanics with SWTOR. 

 

I just want a game that is fun.  The only reason I got through the free month in SWTOR is that my friends wanted to keep playing.  I couldn't make it through the second month.  It wasn't fun.  Also, those friends have all quit the game as well at this point.

See if you simply do not enjoy the game then I cannot argue with that, thats your opinion.  My wife and i love it.  To each their own.  My question then is what parts of the game do you find boring?  The combat?  Too much story? 

Cause real gamers should be offering that kind of constructive feedback in hopes the game would improve.  Simply bragging that a game declined in subs after its high launch number just seems pity like you want the game to fail. 

The fact that the game felt like it was designed to a single player game with a party of companions or at best a cooperative multiplayer game rather than an MMORPG.  I wanted an MMORPG, SWTOR does not feel like one.  It doesn't even feel like a really good single player game.

As far as wanting SWTOR to fail, I certainly do.  The reason has everything to do with EA and their business practices that have stunted creativity in the industry, destroyed promising game dev studios and buried many great IPs.  As a gamer that prefers good games, I really would like EA out of the industry.

Originally posted by killion81

Originally posted by kcypher2000

Originally posted by killion81

Originally posted by kcypher2000

On a side note I do not think SWTOR is perfect, I just think alot of the hatred seems unfounded and most complaints seem totally unfounded for an mmo fan, considering my take of SWTOR is that it played it safe by copying all the conventions done in other mmos like WoW and has done them well.  The only innovative aspect is the emphasis on story. 

 

I really wonder what you complainers like then?  Name an mmo that you are enjoying now.  Cause I have played them all and most share a lot of similar mechanics with SWTOR. 

 

I just want a game that is fun.  The only reason I got through the free month in SWTOR is that my friends wanted to keep playing.  I couldn't make it through the second month.  It wasn't fun.  Also, those friends have all quit the game as well at this point.

See if you simply do not enjoy the game then I cannot argue with that, thats your opinion.  My wife and i love it.  To each their own.  My question then is what parts of the game do you find boring?  The combat?  Too much story? 

Cause real gamers should be offering that kind of constructive feedback in hopes the game would improve.  Simply bragging that a game declined in subs after its high launch number just seems pity like you want the game to fail. 

 

The fact that the game felt like it was designed to a single player game with a party of companions or at best a cooperative multiplayer game rather than an MMORPG.  I wanted an MMORPG, SWTOR does not feel like one.  It doesn't even feel like a really good single player game.

 

As far as wanting SWTOR to fail, I certainly do.  The reason has everything to do with EA and their business practices that have stunted creativity in the industry, destroyed promising game dev studios and buried many great IPs.  As a gamer that prefers good games, I really would like EA out of the industry.

Then team with people, SWTOR encourages teaming more than most mmos ive played, you actually get points for teaming and its funny when people pick different decisions.  My wife is pure evil and im a hero, makes thing interesting and led to some duels. 

Btw that last paragraph just proves to me how horribly biased and hypocritical you are.  You want to see SWTOR a game many people enjoy, even if you dont, buried because their publisher does some things you don't agree with.  Wow talk about a hypocrite. 

Lets be honest, that proves my point that some people want SWTOR to fail no matter what they do with the game, they can make it your dream mmo and you will still hate it just because you are biased.

Originally posted by kcypher2000

Why are you so scared of general chat?  Did the barrens give you PTS?  Are you guys new to MMOs?  Get a guild, or just wait to you see a group, they are always broadcasting on general chat. 

Feel free to point out where I said I was scared of general chat or had problems using it. If anyone is acting like they're new to mmos it is you since you're so quick to assumptions about other players and apparently can't take any negative discussion towards your precious.

Least you said something I can agree with. The game does need real space combat. Gonna be tough for them to incorporate now though.

I was a healer. Was much easier for me to group then dps and sometimes even tanks. When you only have a dozen to two dozen people on planets or you're hovering at forty on fleet finding a group can be a pain with their current mechanics. Would better ones solve everything? No...but it would make things a lot easier for those on less populated servers.

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by kcypher2000

Why are you so scared of general chat?  Did the barrens give you PTS?  Are you guys new to MMOs?  Get a guild, or just wait to you see a group, they are always broadcasting on general chat. 

Feel free to point out where I said I was scared of general chat or had problems using it. If anyone is acting like they're new to mmos it is you since you're so quick to assumptions about other players and apparently can't take any negative discussion towards your precious.

Intersting leap in logic there kiddo but any real mmo veteran is used to findings groups on general chat and played mmos YEARS before dungeon finders and queues were ever thought up. 

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by kcypher2000

Why are you so scared of general chat?  Did the barrens give you PTS?  Are you guys new to MMOs?  Get a guild, or just wait to you see a group, they are always broadcasting on general chat. 

Feel free to point out where I said I was scared of general chat or had problems using it. If anyone is acting like they're new to mmos it is you since you're so quick to assumptions about other players and apparently can't take any negative discussion towards your precious.

Least you said something I can agree with. The game does need real space combat. Gonna be tough for them to incorporate now though.

About the space combat.  As a SWG vet I can tell you that people said the same thing about that game until Jump to lightspeed came out. 

Originally posted by kcypher2000

Originally posted by Souldrainer

Originally posted by kcypher2000

On a side note I do not think SWTOR is perfect, I just think alot of the hatred seems unfounded and most complaints seem totally unfounded for an mmo fan, considering my take of SWTOR is that it played it safe by copying all the conventions done in other mmos like WoW and has done them well.  The only innovative aspect is the emphasis on story. 

 

I really wonder what you complainers like then?  Name an mmo that you are enjoying now.  Cause I have played them all and most share a lot of similar mechanics with SWTOR. 

I still play SWTOR and I still like it quite a bit, but it was a WAY better game pre-1.2.  I think the sweeping class changes were the biggest letdown.  WOW has rollercoaster balancing, and I left that game partly because of it.  For nearly six months SWTOR looked like it wasn't going to pull the same crap, then 1.2 came out and it did the same thing.  The further they differentiate from WOW, the more success SWTOR will have.

 

Why do you think so?  Was your class nerfed?  I found 1.2 pretty underwhelming myself and think of the legacy system as only a money sink that benefits my alts.  New warzone is pretty fun though.  My lowbie jedi knight killed some level 40ish sorceror a few times.

I played a PVP DPS sorc, but I never used Death Field because I did not like the mechanic.  With the class changes to that class, you *have to* use Death Field to survive in PVP.  The title changes in PVP were terrible.  Being a sorc in PVP is now a complete joke, but moreso if you try to DPS without Death Field.  They essentially deleted my play style from the game.  You can't do that to people.  Same thing happened to WOW with Cata.  These kinds of sweeping changes tend to sweep loyal subscribers right out the door.

But I digress.  If SWTOR ends up being just like WOW, it will lose.  Some people claim it always was so, but this is false.  Their old class balance was fantastic.  Sure tracer missle spam happened, and sure, some healer/tank duos were insanely hard to kill, but now PVP is a gib fest.  1.2 is trying to do things that other MMOs and games do better.

Originally posted by Souldrainer

Originally posted by kcypher2000

Originally posted by Souldrainer

Originally posted by kcypher2000

On a side note I do not think SWTOR is perfect, I just think alot of the hatred seems unfounded and most complaints seem totally unfounded for an mmo fan, considering my take of SWTOR is that it played it safe by copying all the conventions done in other mmos like WoW and has done them well.  The only innovative aspect is the emphasis on story. 

 

I really wonder what you complainers like then?  Name an mmo that you are enjoying now.  Cause I have played them all and most share a lot of similar mechanics with SWTOR. 

I still play SWTOR and I still like it quite a bit, but it was a WAY better game pre-1.2.  I think the sweeping class changes were the biggest letdown.  WOW has rollercoaster balancing, and I left that game partly because of it.  For nearly six months SWTOR looked like it wasn't going to pull the same crap, then 1.2 came out and it did the same thing.  The further they differentiate from WOW, the more success SWTOR will have.

 

Why do you think so?  Was your class nerfed?  I found 1.2 pretty underwhelming myself and think of the legacy system as only a money sink that benefits my alts.  New warzone is pretty fun though.  My lowbie jedi knight killed some level 40ish sorceror a few times.

I played a PVP DPS sorc, but I never used Death Field because I did not like the mechanic.  With the class changes to that class, you *have to* use Death Field to survive in PVP.  The title changes in PVP were terrible.  Being a sorc in PVP is now a complete joke, but moreso if you try to DPS without Death Field.  They essentially deleted my play style from the game.  You can't do that to people.  Same thing happened to WOW with Cata.  These kinds of sweeping changes tend to sweep loyal subscribers right out the door.

 

But I digress.  If SWTOR ends up being just like WOW, it will lose.  Some people claim it always was so, but this is false.  Their old class balance was fantastic.  Sure tracer missle spam happened, and sure, some healer/tank duos were insanely hard to kill, but now PVP is a gib fest.  1.2 is trying to do things that other MMOs and games do better.

Sorry to hear that, i haven't tried a Sorc yet but it does suck when the nerf bat is swung too hard.  Hopefully they fix it. 

I agree about WoW though.  SWTOR needs to set itself apart.  They did a great job with the story but their end game model mirrors WoW too much. 

Originally posted by kcypher2000

Intersting leap in logic there kiddo but any real mmo veteran is used to findings groups on general chat and played mmos YEARS before dungeon finders and queues were ever thought up. 

Yeah no shit. Seeing how I've been playing since EQ I'm well aware. Feel free to keep making assumptions and being wrong as seems to be your m.o.

Times have changed and so has the community. Not to mention the games.

...and never did I say I thought the game needed an insta queue for fps. That wouldn;t solve the problem many have with 4 man heroics anyways.

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by kcypher2000

Intersting leap in logic there kiddo but any real mmo veteran is used to findings groups on general chat and played mmos YEARS before dungeon finders and queues were ever thought up. 

Yeah no shit. Seeing how I've been playing since EQ I'm well aware. Feel free to keep making assumptions and being wrong as seems to be your m.o.

Times have changed and so has the community. Not to mention the games. If you were such a "hallowed veteran" you would think you would have noticed.

I did notice that it turned most mmos into queue fests where people wait around capitals and have become scared of interacting with others.  Btw am i making you angry?  Cause you seem to be getting rather upset.   I am really finding it hard to believe you were born when EQ was around considering how upset you are getting over a small debate on a game. 

Bioware/EA basically spent 200 million dollars to barely hold the spot for 2nd best mmo for a few months until GW2 comes out. Ouch.

The worst part will actually be 2-3 years from now when games like Titan and WOD completely put the nail in the coffin of themepark grinders like SWTOR. 

Has there ever been a game developed with less foresight and respect for its playerbase? Bioware actually thought people were going to spend the next 5 years or more grinding out purples in their WoW clone. It boggles the mind that no one on their development team spoke up and pointed out what a bad idea it would be to release a game like this in 2011.