You know how it is in grouping, and this repeated experience the whole party sort of pummelling one mob. It doesn't quite seem right. (not that it needs to in gaming)

Surely a different mmorpgs may provide the challenge whereby your group is split up in a dungeon, each sort of facing their own challenges to sort of refind the rest. Or maybe there's Crystal Maze- like tasks to accomplish?

Of course there's shortfalls of the idea but it's a little bit of difference of challenge to the same old all-on-one-mob.

  splitting the party up might make for a nice gimmick for maybe 1 dungeon in a game..but not for all.  Might as well play single player games then if your  never actually going to work togeather in a group.

A rat maybe, a dragon not so much. Besides it's usually a pack of rats and if you're all concentrating on one rat you're doing it wrong. Yes I can see forcing parties to split up into two paths to complete a goal. It is a pretty standard theme after all. "You hold them off here and I'll cut them off at the pass."

First, I'm all for many people pounding on a single mob, as long as their strength is not in just numbers, but a group actually ends up being more than its parts. Take the classic trinity synergy or even better, group combos as in LOTRO.

On a related note... Somehow, one player taking on a load of mobs just doesn't feel "heroic" to me (sorry, Bioware). Maybe much later in the game, where I may feel my character "earned" that through all the stuff he's accomplished... But early on, it just makes me feel like the trashman, where I'm getting rid of the garbage out there. Hey, maybe that's why called trash mobs. :P

As for splitting the group... Sure, as long as it's not always the norm. You could make it so that one or two in the group (I guess usually the rogue would be fitting) could split and do her own thing. For example, stealth through an insanely dangerous area, and open a booby-trapped door from the other side for the group.

That kind of thing would strengthen the meaning of roles in group - which is something I think has been neglected way too much in MMOs lately, especially when it comes to anything outside of actual combat.

I thought it was silly at first, too - especially when I spent an entire 5 hours with a group grinding on epic rats in EverQuest II. However, after all the crying for realism and soloistic ideas, the genre has made a turn for the worst.

I'd rather have my group fight rats than fighting them alone with everything else.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

A rat maybe, a dragon not so much. Besides it's usually a pack of rats and if you're all concentrating on one rat you're doing it wrong. Yes I can see forcing parties to split up into two paths to complete a goal. It is a pretty standard theme after all. "You hold them off here and I'll cut them off at the pass."

Focusing on one "rat" is not wrong, it's the fastest way to remove a threat and remove pressure on your group, unless there is a specific mechanic involved say the other mobs become stronger if one dies.

Originally posted by spades07

You know how it is in grouping, and this repeated experience the whole party sort of pummelling one mob. It doesn't quite seem right. (not that it needs to in gaming)

Surely a different mmorpgs may provide the challenge whereby your group is split up in a dungeon, each sort of facing their own challenges to sort of refind the rest. Or maybe there's Crystal Maze- like tasks to accomplish?

Of course there's shortfalls of the idea but it's a little bit of difference of challenge to the same old all-on-one-mob.

 

What is not right for 5 adventurers to fight a dragon? a Lich or a end boss?

With all the work in phasing and load-balancing going on, I suspect we will soon see experiments in another tier of content that falls between open-world and instances: maps that are open to a subset of players who are not formally grouped and who may or may not share a common objective.

Imagine a game with randomly-generated islands containing resources, monsters and puzzles.  Each island is essentially it's own little open world minigame that is shared by a random shipload of player characters.  You'd have a week to explore, harvest, build, challenge the monsters, etc before your ship leaves for home.  Some of the objectives would be solo, some would be cooperative, some might be competitive.  Each new island would be like starting a fresh little server with a bunch of strangers (or guildmates) for a week.

Originally posted by dlld

Originally posted by zymurgeist

A rat maybe, a dragon not so much. Besides it's usually a pack of rats and if you're all concentrating on one rat you're doing it wrong. Yes I can see forcing parties to split up into two paths to complete a goal. It is a pretty standard theme after all. "You hold them off here and I'll cut them off at the pass."

Focusing on one "rat" is not wrong, it's the fastest way to remove a threat and remove pressure on your group, unless there is a specific mechanic involved say the other mobs become stronger if one dies.

 Unless one or two people can kill a rat as fast as five. Which is usually the case with rats.

Originally posted by spades07

You know how it is in grouping, and this repeated experience the whole party sort of pummelling one mob. It doesn't quite seem right. (not that it needs to in gaming)

Surely a different mmorpgs may provide the challenge whereby your group is split up in a dungeon, each sort of facing their own challenges to sort of refind the rest. Or maybe there's Crystal Maze- like tasks to accomplish?

Of course there's shortfalls of the idea but it's a little bit of difference of challenge to the same old all-on-one-mob.

 

Personally, I think its a great idea and would love to see an MMO do something along these lines.

The unfortunate part is that such a dungeon would require a level of planning and coordination that, sadly, today's average MMO player just does not have. People seem to have enough difficulty with simple instructions like "Let the tank attack first" or "Dont attack the ones the caster puts to sleep!". To coordinate individual efforts working together from various locations...I'm afraid that would just be beyond the grasp of a lot of players.

Originally posted by mmoDAD

I thought it was silly at first, too - especially when I spent an entire 5 hours with a group grinding on epic rats in EverQuest II. However, after all the crying for realism and soloistic ideas, the genre has made a turn for the worst.

 

I'd rather have my group fight rats than fighting them alone with everything else.

I'm sorry, but I have to ask....epic rats in EQ2?  What level are these rats and are you sure you don't mean Fippy Darkpaw and his brood, because technically.....those mobs are NOT rats.  I played EQ2 for 7 years and somehow I managed to never see any epic "rats."  Gnolls yes.....rats, no.  So please tell me where these critters are, because I feel as if I'm losing my mind not to remember epic rats.....no, really.  I don't doubt you....I just want to know where they are that I missed them.  lol  :)

The point of grouping is typically to group, although I would love to see some clever mechanics tried in that way.  At least, as long as they tried CoX and understood what doesn't work (never really liked the jail-break mechanics in that game, especially as non-damage characters who pretty much got stranded and needed to be rescued.)

...also what MMORPG even has rat mobs?  WAR is the only one I've played in the last ~10 years, and Skaven technically aren't rats so much as they're rat-people...   Just always feels silly people mention rats in games so often, yet they're virtually nonexistant.

Personally I think it's fair to point out how silly it looks, and use that as a launchpad for discussions on how it could be better (large-scale battles with the party vs. multiple opponents, or arena-style fights like WOW has.)  But it clearly works as a mechanic.

Originally posted by just1opinion

Originally posted by mmoDAD

I thought it was silly at first, too - especially when I spent an entire 5 hours with a group grinding on epic rats in EverQuest II. However, after all the crying for realism and soloistic ideas, the genre has made a turn for the worst.

 

I'd rather have my group fight rats than fighting them alone with everything else.

 

I'm sorry, but I have to ask....epic rats in EQ2?  What level are these rats and are you sure you don't mean Fippy Darkpaw and his brood, because technically.....those mobs are NOT rats.  I played EQ2 for 7 years and somehow I managed to never see any epic "rats."  Gnolls yes.....rats, no.  So please tell me where these critters are, because I feel as if I'm losing my mind not to remember epic rats.....no, really.  I don't doubt you....I just want to know where they are that I missed them.  lol  :)

http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Coldtooth

http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Bile_soaked_rat

Originally posted by Axehilt

The point of grouping is typically to group, although I would love to see some clever mechanics tried in that way.  At least, as long as they tried CoX and understood what doesn't work (never really liked the jail-break mechanics in that game, especially as non-damage characters who pretty much got stranded and needed to be rescued.)

...also what MMORPG even has rat mobs?  WAR is the only one I've played in the last ~10 years, and Skaven technically aren't rats so much as they're rat-people...   Just always feels silly people mention rats in games so often, yet they're virtually nonexistant.

Personally I think it's fair to point out how silly it looks, and use that as a launchpad for discussions on how it could be better (large-scale battles with the party vs. multiple opponents, or arena-style fights like WOW has.)  But it clearly works as a mechanic.

Why do people on these forums always get caught up on semantics? You know damn well the point of his post wasn't about the rat. Why bother going there?

Originally posted by helthros

 Why do people on these forums always get caught up on semantics? You know damn well the point of his post wasn't about the rat. Why bother going there?

Sure which is why I addressed that part first and last.

The semantics are just particularly ridiculous due to the extreme lack of rats in MMORPGs.  There are a hundred other types of monsters more common in MMORPGs, yet we never hear about "Kill 10 orcs" or "Five guys pummeling a boar".  It's just comedically out of place as a reference is all (:

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by just1opinion

Originally posted by mmoDAD

I thought it was silly at first, too - especially when I spent an entire 5 hours with a group grinding on epic rats in EverQuest II. However, after all the crying for realism and soloistic ideas, the genre has made a turn for the worst.

 

I'd rather have my group fight rats than fighting them alone with everything else.

 

I'm sorry, but I have to ask....epic rats in EQ2?  What level are these rats and are you sure you don't mean Fippy Darkpaw and his brood, because technically.....those mobs are NOT rats.  I played EQ2 for 7 years and somehow I managed to never see any epic "rats."  Gnolls yes.....rats, no.  So please tell me where these critters are, because I feel as if I'm losing my mind not to remember epic rats.....no, really.  I don't doubt you....I just want to know where they are that I missed them.  lol  :)

http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Coldtooth

http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Bile_soaked_rat

 

Ahh thank you.  Yes, after seeing them I DO indeed remember.  I did, however, manage to not ever fight them, so I guess that's why my brain didn't retain a clear memory of them.  Thanks. :)  Epic rats..... seems a bit silly, doesn't it?

Originally posted by just1opinion Epic rats..... seems a bit silly, doesn't it?

You just described every fantasy game known to mankind, single and multiplayer.

I'd say an "epic rat" is no more silly than a hobbit playing a guitar to kill it.

It's quite frankly why I'm about to give up on mmos and gaming in general. Tired of the silly sword, board, and fireball fantasy crap.

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by helthros

 Why do people on these forums always get caught up on semantics? You know damn well the point of his post wasn't about the rat. Why bother going there?

Sure which is why I addressed that part first and last.

The semantics are just particularly ridiculous due to the extreme lack of rats in MMORPGs.  There are a hundred other types of monsters more common in MMORPGs, yet we never hear about "Kill 10 orcs" or "Five guys pummeling a boar".  It's just comedically out of place as a reference is all (:

You might be right, but I can't help but feel like rats are readily killed in most MMOs.

I want to say Vanguard and maybe.. Lotro?

Well now I'm curious. Damn you! :)

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Originally posted by maplestone
With all the work in phasing and load-balancing going on, I suspect we will soon see experiments in another tier of content that falls between open-world and instances: maps that are open to a subset of players who are not formally grouped and who may or may not share a common objective.
Imagine a game with randomly-generated islands containing resources, monsters and puzzles.  Each island is essentially it's own little open world minigame that is shared by a random shipload of player characters.  You'd have a week to explore, harvest, build, challenge the monsters, etc before your ship leaves for home.  Some of the objectives would be solo, some would be cooperative, some might be competitive.  Each new island would be like starting a fresh little server with a bunch of strangers (or guildmates) for a week.

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And people caught up on me saying rat:D I admit I was being flippant but you know what I mean. All versus.