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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » GW2 the New Touchstone for MMOs?

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166 posts found
  Eir_S

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4703

GW2 socialist.

5/07/12 1:10:43 PM#21

Blizzard's already borrowing ideas from the game, and take it from Games Workshop, having Blizzard copy you is the sign of success.

  Zeroxin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/21/06
Posts: 2516

My words are not here to sway you,they are here to make you understand.

5/07/12 1:10:52 PM#22
Originally posted by Jimmydean
 

GW2's BWE proved nothing. Even SWTOR was fun for the first few days. The issues that GW2 has are longevity factors, and after 3 days of playing I don't think anyone can say whether or not GW2 has any sort of longevity.

Depends on the player, GW2 will have longevity for me because I like exploring and I like challenges. GW2 probably won't have much for the gear grinders unless they switch to prestige grinders.

This is not a game.

  Meleagar

Novice Member

Joined: 6/12/09
Posts: 407

5/07/12 1:13:52 PM#23

I think the great big middle finger to the holy trinity and it's stranglehold on what "balance" means is going to do the most for the industry as a whole, especially as GW2 becomes the MMOG success story of the decade.

  Unlight

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 2586

5/07/12 1:21:44 PM#24
Originally posted by Jimmydean
Originally posted by vesuvias
Originally posted by Unlight
Originally posted by Phry

Whether GW2 will have that much, or any, influence on other games, really depends on how well the game does after release. By the same token, SW;TOR will probably have a negative effect on overly scripted themeparks. It is far too early to be able to make any kind of prediction of the games effect on future MMO developments. This is the sort of question that can only be answered, even then only in a speculative fashion, 3 months after launch, whenever that may be..

This.

I don't think anyone is going to be copying GW2 until it proves itself a success.  That hasn't happened yet, despite how awesome it looks to most of us.  Popularity and financial success aren't always synonmous.  The game has the former, but it still needs to attain the latter.  Only then might other studios look at what GW2 is doing and consider it a viable path. 

With such a risk averse industry, nobody wants to be the first to plunge off the beaten path.  Leave that to the lunatic visionaries.  The rest will follow so long as the trailblazer doesn't get eaten by jungle monsters.

There is certianly risk adversity in the industry. But I also think there were simply quite a few sacred cows in the minds of game designers in this industry. You see it on these forums all the time: You can't make a MMO without healers!!!, "What no raiding!?!?111!", "How long till I get to end game and is there one with this game", "Without gear progression people won't play". Anet challenged those long held assumptions on what actually makes a MMO fun but they really couldn't prove it till the gameplay was in the hands of the players.

 

I am willing to bet with the relitive postive success of the BWE they have proven thier point about a lot of these gameplay decisions. Those game designers who were watching closely to see how it actually played out probably have enough information now to say "Yeah they were right". GW2 is likely influencing a great deal the MMOs that are still in design phase right now.

 

Honestly as much as this community bitches about stale gameplay fostered by the corprate money machine, I really think  most of the game design mechanisms are left to game designers not corprate suits. MMOs have not inovated because too many in the MMO community, game designers and players alike, couldn't imagine it working any other way than the way it had always worked.

GW2's BWE proved nothing. Even SWTOR was fun for the first few days. The issues that GW2 has are longevity factors, and after 3 days of playing I don't think anyone can say whether or not GW2 has any sort of longevity.

I'm confident it will, but you're right, nothing has been proven yet. 

  Wickedjelly

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

5/07/12 1:23:55 PM#25

Way too early to tell. The key factors most newer mmos are failing in are retention and sustained population growth. They have mostly started out hot and then fizzled sometimes even in dramatic fashion. So will this game pull it off? Maybe...has the potential. Although that has been said about a lot of games.

Regardless even my own personal opinion of the game it will take a couple months to gauge if the game can keep players' interest, if the game/company can actually build a thriving community on its servers, and has a reasonable level of updates adding more community, immersion, and gameplay criteria to their world.

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  vesuvias

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/13/04
Posts: 126

5/07/12 1:32:50 PM#26
Originally posted by Jimmydean
Originally posted by vesuvias

There is certianly risk adversity in the industry. But I also think there were simply quite a few sacred cows in the minds of game designers in this industry. You see it on these forums all the time: You can't make a MMO without healers!!!, "What no raiding!?!?111!", "How long till I get to end game and is there one with this game", "Without gear progression people won't play". Anet challenged those long held assumptions on what actually makes a MMO fun but they really couldn't prove it till the gameplay was in the hands of the players.

 

I am willing to bet with the relitive postive success of the BWE they have proven thier point about a lot of these gameplay decisions. Those game designers who were watching closely to see how it actually played out probably have enough information now to say "Yeah they were right". GW2 is likely influencing a great deal the MMOs that are still in design phase right now.

 

Honestly as much as this community bitches about stale gameplay fostered by the corprate money machine, I really think  most of the game design mechanisms are left to game designers not corprate suits. MMOs have not inovated because too many in the MMO community, game designers and players alike, couldn't imagine it working any other way than the way it had always worked.

GW2's BWE proved nothing. Even SWTOR was fun for the first few days. The issues that GW2 has are longevity factors, and after 3 days of playing I don't think anyone can say whether or not GW2 has any sort of longevity.

Longevity wasn't the only factor on display here. There were plenty of people that didn't think this approach would be fun at all. Some that still can't wrap there heads around a MMO without healers. They proved plenty, they proved that you can craft a fun experience "thier" way. But in terms of longevity your right that can't be proven until sometime after release. That said, I personally always considered longevity a meta factor anyway, make your game fun and players will continue to play it for a long time.

  helthros

Novice Member

Joined: 10/24/09
Posts: 1477

5/07/12 1:43:48 PM#27
Originally posted by Meleagar

I think the great big middle finger to the holy trinity and it's stranglehold on what "balance" means is going to do the most for the industry as a whole, especially as GW2 becomes the MMOG success story of the decade.

 

Meh, it remains to be seen just how "awesome" eliminating the holy trinity will be. The few dungeons I've seen on youtube were zerg fests with lots and LOTS of rezzing. That's one way to eliminate the trinity I suppose. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but is there even a death penalty?

 

Also, I distinctly remember this same hype and craze when Rift came out how Rifts (public quests, dynamic events, whatever) were going to revolutionize gaming and yada yada.

Wait for the game to release before it's heralded as the next coming of mmo-jesus.

  OldManFunk

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/29/06
Posts: 900

5/07/12 2:49:13 PM#28
Originally posted by helthros
Originally posted by Meleagar

I think the great big middle finger to the holy trinity and it's stranglehold on what "balance" means is going to do the most for the industry as a whole, especially as GW2 becomes the MMOG success story of the decade.

 

Meh, it remains to be seen just how "awesome" eliminating the holy trinity will be. The few dungeons I've seen on youtube were zerg fests with lots and LOTS of rezzing. That's one way to eliminate the trinity I suppose. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but is there even a death penalty?

 

Also, I distinctly remember this same hype and craze when Rift came out how Rifts (public quests, dynamic events, whatever) were going to revolutionize gaming and yada yada.

Wait for the game to release before it's heralded as the next coming of mmo-jesus.

GW2 is still in beta. Not many people outside of ANet have played the game to 30 which is where dungeons start. The people who posted videos are from the press, had very little experience with the game's mechanics, and recorded their frist dungeon attempts.

 

Rift's rifts and zone events are not anything like GW2's dynamic events.

 

I played GW2 during the BWE. It is the next coming of mmo-jesus. If you don't like mmo-jesus then don't play it. Nobody is forcing you to like the game.

  just1opinion

Smart-Alek

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 4933

5/07/12 2:58:54 PM#29
Originally posted by helthros
Originally posted by Meleagar

I think the great big middle finger to the holy trinity and it's stranglehold on what "balance" means is going to do the most for the industry as a whole, especially as GW2 becomes the MMOG success story of the decade.

 

Meh, it remains to be seen just how "awesome" eliminating the holy trinity will be. The few dungeons I've seen on youtube were zerg fests with lots and LOTS of rezzing. That's one way to eliminate the trinity I suppose. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but is there even a death penalty?

 

Also, I distinctly remember this same hype and craze when Rift came out how Rifts (public quests, dynamic events, whatever) were going to revolutionize gaming and yada yada.

Wait for the game to release before it's heralded as the next coming of mmo-jesus.

 

As of right now, yes, there is a death penalty in place....you lose vitality, which is your health pool.  I don't know how MUCH you lose exactly or whether it stacks if you die close together, but it seems to me that it does stack and is enough that I NOTICED it.  Others that didn't notice that will have to pay attention next time. :)  What I did NOT notice is just how long it took for my regular health pool to be restored and vitality returned.  It wasn't immediate is all I know.

President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  p_c_sousa

Novice Member

Joined: 3/31/08
Posts: 627

5/07/12 3:01:19 PM#30
Originally posted by helthros
Originally posted by Meleagar

I think the great big middle finger to the holy trinity and it's stranglehold on what "balance" means is going to do the most for the industry as a whole, especially as GW2 becomes the MMOG success story of the decade.

 

Meh, it remains to be seen just how "awesome" eliminating the holy trinity will be. The few dungeons I've seen on youtube were zerg fests with lots and LOTS of rezzing. That's one way to eliminate the trinity I suppose. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but is there even a death penalty?

 

Also, I distinctly remember this same hype and craze when Rift came out how Rifts (public quests, dynamic events, whatever) were going to revolutionize gaming and yada yada.

Wait for the game to release before it's heralded as the next coming of mmo-jesus.

lol. people dont even know the mechanic of dungeons. in LOTRO raids and hard dungeons if we didnt know the mechanic of them you  will just die and die  and keep die. in raids you even could have 12 guys all 20lvl above the raid lvl and if you didnt know boss mechanic you didnt have any chance.

in the videos you saw about dungeons GW2 is the same thing, new peple on dungeon (without any guide available) so how do you want that wasnt a mess? isnt the fact they didnt have specific classes that was a mess and have lot of dies, is because no one had a clue of what they were doing.

yes, we have death penalty (appear a skull icon near endurance bar) and  that penalty stack.(yes i die many times xDD)

about RIFT the one thing they suppose have revolutionary was the rifts, nothing more.  from what i play in beta GW2 was so fun and i even were doing DE "right", didnt follow any NPC but even without that they were so epic, really amazing, but GW2 is  much more than DE

  SuperXero89

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/16/09
Posts: 2610

5/07/12 3:05:27 PM#31
Originally posted by fiontar
Originally posted by Kabaal

It isn't changing anything. The game is combining good features from other games, it's not anything revolutionary but rather just seems that way due to the sheer amount of drivel that has tried to pass as the next best thing over the past few years.


All I can say is you are in for a pleasant surprise if you decide to play the game.

GW2 is pretty impressive as a game and fun as hell, but it isn't even the most perfect implimentation of it's own "on paper" MMORPG design doctrine possible. That's one thing that excites me about the game. I love GW2 itself, but there is room for others to take the lessons of GW2 design and deliver an even more compelling game experience.

GW2 would have been a more modest evolution over the competition if the genre hadn't essentially stopped innovating after WoW was released. With a five year + development process, GW2 was designed to be an evolutionary step ahead of the anticipated competition. When everyone else essentially stood still, or even fell back a step from vanilla WoW, it set up GW2 to be something revolutionary in it's launch window.

Some people got this just by reading and watching everything they could find from the developers over the last two years. Others won't get it until they play it and play it long enough to get the old way of thinking completely out of their systems.

I don't love the game.  I don't even think it's all that good.  I will say that GW2 brings a lot of good ideas to the table, but as you say, I don't feel as if the execution is always there.

  spaceport

Novice Member

Joined: 11/24/11
Posts: 417

5/07/12 3:10:26 PM#32

God, i hope not.

I actually like to play the same MMO for years.

GW2 doesn't look to be that MMO, carebear PVP, lack of sandbox elements, simplified group mechanics, "everyone is special", lack of progression in PVE and PVP (no i don't want a gear grind either), no community, solo grouping, yeah... nop.

At least not for me, but maybe it's because im just tired of themeparks with 2 or 3 gimmicks that get boring really fast.

 

The PVP also looks to be a boring zergfest.

 

Im not saying i would rather have another wow clone, GW2 at least as a couple of gimmicks that look fun for a while.

But it still has the same problem every themepark has.... it's so shallow that i can't imagine myself playing it for more than a couple of months.


"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7749

Logic be damned!

5/07/12 3:13:29 PM#33
Originally posted by spaceport

God, i hope not.

I actually like to play the same MMO for years.

GW2 doesn't look to be that MMO, carebear PVP, lack of sandbox elements, simplified group mechanics, "everyone is special", lack of progression in PVE and PVP (no i don't want a gear grind either), no community, solo grouping, yeah... nop.

At least not for me, but maybe it's because im just tired of themeparks with 2 or 3 gimmicks that get boring really fast.

The PVP also looks to be a boring zergfest.

Either your sig is what it is out of irony or sarcasm or you my friend are quite confused.

"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."

Now Playing: Destiny, WoW

  Maelkor

Novice Member

Joined: 8/20/05
Posts: 462

5/07/12 3:14:07 PM#34

I voted no. I enjoy GW2 and have allready purchased the game, however, while there are many great things about GW2 it is still only one direction a game company can decide to go. Many will decide similar but different directions. I think the game will have an impact on future games but not as a "cornerstone" meaning a bunch of GW2 clones and nothing but.

  spaceport

Novice Member

Joined: 11/24/11
Posts: 417

5/07/12 3:15:05 PM#35
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by spaceport

God, i hope not.

I actually like to play the same MMO for years.

GW2 doesn't look to be that MMO, carebear PVP, lack of sandbox elements, simplified group mechanics, "everyone is special", lack of progression in PVE and PVP (no i don't want a gear grind either), no community, solo grouping, yeah... nop.

At least not for me, but maybe it's because im just tired of themeparks with 2 or 3 gimmicks that get boring really fast.

The PVP also looks to be a boring zergfest.

Either your sig is what it is out of irony or sarcasm or you my friend are quite confused.

"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."

Yeah otacu said that a couple of weeks ago, im still laughing my ass off everytime i read it.


"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu

  achesoma

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/05/05
Posts: 960

5/07/12 3:19:45 PM#36

Could be.  All I know is that the BWE ruined me.  I don't think I can go back to a traditional holy-trinity ever again.  It made my current MMO feel very bland and haven't played much since. 

If anything, it will make other developers realize a great quality MMO can be done without monthly subs.  I guarantee other companies are watching very closely. 

  gestalt11

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/17/06
Posts: 6171

5/07/12 3:19:52 PM#37

Caveat:  While I said Yes.  That means its the same as WoW many will imitate almost no one will actually see the same success.

 

And the parade of huge expensive MMO failures will continue.

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7749

Logic be damned!

5/07/12 3:19:58 PM#38
Originally posted by spaceport
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by spaceport

God, i hope not.

I actually like to play the same MMO for years.

GW2 doesn't look to be that MMO, carebear PVP, lack of sandbox elements, simplified group mechanics, "everyone is special", lack of progression in PVE and PVP (no i don't want a gear grind either), no community, solo grouping, yeah... nop.

At least not for me, but maybe it's because im just tired of themeparks with 2 or 3 gimmicks that get boring really fast.

The PVP also looks to be a boring zergfest.

Either your sig is what it is out of irony or sarcasm or you my friend are quite confused.

"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."

Yeah otacu said that a couple of weeks ago, im still laughing my ass off everytime i read it.

Good, because I am going to start laughing every time you think ganking/griefing is a "hardcore" PvP mechanic. :)

You know, there is a reason that the hordes of barbarians raping/killing defensless villagers are always the "bad guys" in the stories/movies - the same reason the noble hero who defends/protects the weak against long odds is the good guy -

Gankers/griefers are the most carebear p#$$ies in PvP.

Now Playing: Destiny, WoW

  spaceport

Novice Member

Joined: 11/24/11
Posts: 417

5/07/12 3:24:30 PM#39
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by spaceport
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by spaceport

God, i hope not.

I actually like to play the same MMO for years.

GW2 doesn't look to be that MMO, carebear PVP, lack of sandbox elements, simplified group mechanics, "everyone is special", lack of progression in PVE and PVP (no i don't want a gear grind either), no community, solo grouping, yeah... nop.

At least not for me, but maybe it's because im just tired of themeparks with 2 or 3 gimmicks that get boring really fast.

The PVP also looks to be a boring zergfest.

Either your sig is what it is out of irony or sarcasm or you my friend are quite confused.

"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."

Yeah otacu said that a couple of weeks ago, im still laughing my ass off everytime i read it.

Good, because I am going to start laughing every time you think ganking/griefing is a "hardcore" PvP mechanic. :)

You know, there is a reason that the hordes of barbarians raping/killing defensless villagers are always the "bad guys" in the stories/movies - the same reason the noble hero who defends/protects the weak against long odds is the good guy -

Gankers/griefers are the most carebear p#$$ies in PvP.

Only that open world PVP is not just about griefing and ganking.

That only happens in shallow wow clones with open world PVP.

 

But someone who never played an MMO with good open world PVP wouldn't understand.

In Lineage 2 we had clan wars, rivalries, politics, it made the gameplay feel really dynamic.

And there was almost no ganking, since if you killed someone and became red, the whole server would hunt you to loot every piece of gear you had.

So open world PVP with mindless ganking is crap, i agree.

Open world PVP needs consequences.


"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu

  gestalt11

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/17/06
Posts: 6171

5/07/12 3:25:47 PM#40
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by spaceport
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by spaceport

God, i hope not.

I actually like to play the same MMO for years.

GW2 doesn't look to be that MMO, carebear PVP, lack of sandbox elements, simplified group mechanics, "everyone is special", lack of progression in PVE and PVP (no i don't want a gear grind either), no community, solo grouping, yeah... nop.

At least not for me, but maybe it's because im just tired of themeparks with 2 or 3 gimmicks that get boring really fast.

The PVP also looks to be a boring zergfest.

Either your sig is what it is out of irony or sarcasm or you my friend are quite confused.

"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."

Yeah otacu said that a couple of weeks ago, im still laughing my ass off everytime i read it.

Good, because I am going to start laughing every time you think ganking/griefing is a "hardcore" PvP mechanic. :)

You know, there is a reason that the hordes of barbarians raping/killing defensless villagers are always the "bad guys" in the stories/movies - the same reason the noble hero who defends/protects the weak against long odds is the good guy -

Gankers/griefers are the most carebear p#$$ies in PvP.

They aren't carebears.  They are cowards.  There is a difference.
 

Some carebears are quite brave.

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