Originally posted by Edeus

Ok, so this thread actually explains a lot about dodging attacks and such.  But what about the mesmer Greatsword skill 1 ability that is a lightning bolt shot instantly and directly at you?

 

Also, for those that did pvp in the beta, since pvp becoems one big running around fest, did aoe's end up becoming king? 

What pvp? arena or wvw? I felt aoe to be more usefull in arena since you can defend points more effectively with aoe. In wvw aoe can be effective whille attacking or defending a keep but in skirmishes or zerg battles picking off enemies one by one seems way more effective.

Originally posted by Edeus

Ok, so this thread actually explains a lot about dodging attacks and such.  But what about the mesmer Greatsword skill 1 ability that is a lightning bolt shot instantly and directly at you?

 

Also, for those that did pvp in the beta, since pvp becoems one big running around fest, did aoe's end up becoming king? 

It's a beam that you can dodge or evade.

Why should aoe become king in highly mobile fights. Aoes are great when people bunch up, though it is currently capped to 5 foes. They are bad in 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 2 fights.

Originally posted by Edeus

Ok, so this thread actually explains a lot about dodging attacks and such.  But what about the mesmer Greatsword skill 1 ability that is a lightning bolt shot instantly and directly at you?

 

Also, for those that did pvp in the beta, since pvp becoems one big running around fest, did aoe's end up becoming king? 

No, not at all. At least in structured PvP. In World PvP if you were on D it came into play obviously. They try to get in at 1 point, they get AoE'd.

But in general, you should take your AoE's off your bars (weapons/bars) if you want to control your opponent in PvP.

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

First of all: I want to state that no matter what a person says in a forum, that still doesn't make it okay for you to start insulting or do other hate-related activities towards the person in question. 

I've seen comments about how MMORPG.com is not a good ground for civilized discussions and I strongly believe that one major reason for that is how easily people resort to insults. 

-----

 

As for the topic:  I can buy that less informed people would automatically think that GW2 is more aim-oriented than it actually is.  An official advertisement video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXwLxIkTcYI does say "action-oriented combat" which implies more action-oriented than the MMORPG norm, which could possibly make a less informed person believe that it may be aim-based. 

So in that sense, the topic holds merit.

 

I do think it is a good idea for the topic starter to link to posts or other sources which claim what you say they claim, since it is always good to present a source. 

 

Sorry, but where does 'Action-oriented' have to equate with aim targeting.

Is it your premise to say that if a game has a tab targeting system then it can't be action-oriented? Really?

When I played with my War in the BWE I never used the tab, I either just swung my 2h hammer at anyone in front of me and it worked great or clicked on a particular atop the ramps if I needed to use my bow, even the greatsword cleaved through multiple enemies. Not action-oriented indeed.

 

 

It doesn't equate, but I can imagine that when someone says "action-oriented" and they think of MMORPGs, they start thinking of aim targeting rather than GW2's style.

Keep in mind, that by putting "action-oriented" in their advertisement, they are implying that it is more action-oriented than other relevant games in the genre. So that leads to the question: in what way is GW2 more "action-oriented" than WoW? If a person doesn't have read much regarding GW2, that can lead to the guess that perhaps it is using a lot of aim targeting. 

Why is action combat equated to aiming or a crosshair?

From wiki

[quote]Action game is a video game genre that emphasizes physical challenges, including hand–eye coordination and reaction-time. The genre includes diverse subgenres such as fighting games, shooter games, and platform games, which are widely considered the most important action games, though some real-time strategy games are also considered to be action games.[/quote]

In the case of GW2 describes movement during combat. In a game like WoW you can mostly play it standing still slapping the mob while the mob slaps you.

 

I've been stating over and over again: that it doesn't equate to aiming, but it may be the people's first guess when they see the advertisement and try to imagine how something may be more "action-oriented" than WoW. Is it really that unreasonable for a person who spends max 30 minutes everyday reading about games @@?

It also depends of your definition of aiming - Tera you need to aim to choose a target for the skill but you aren't necessarely aiming the fireball or the swing of the sword.

In GW2 you don't need to aim to choose a target but depending on the skill in question you migth actually have to aim the path/projectile of the skill.

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by Edeus

Ok, so this thread actually explains a lot about dodging attacks and such.  But what about the mesmer Greatsword skill 1 ability that is a lightning bolt shot instantly and directly at you?

 

Also, for those that did pvp in the beta, since pvp becoems one big running around fest, did aoe's end up becoming king? 

What pvp? arena or wvw? I felt aoe to be more usefull in arena since you can defend points more effectively with aoe. In wvw aoe can be effective whille attacking or defending a keep but in skirmishes or zerg battles picking off enemies one by one seems way more effective.

Ok I see.  I might be un-informed, but if 2 ranged people are fighting each other, and both use spells/abilities that can be cast while moving, and both are moving to avoid the other's attacks, how will anyone ever die?

PS: I suppose it will involve the terrain, setting traps, using targetting aoe, etc.

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Sector13

What makes a game action based is more about hit boxes then no targetting. GW2 doesn't use hit boxes which is why sometimes hits that should hit dont register and why swings that miss do register. 

GW2 does use hit boxes.

 

Where the shit did you get the idea that it didn't?

GW2 uses one hitbox for all playable races. I don't know if the hitboxes in Tera are all the same size too, but afaik they only have one for each model too. That's why Tera has an illusion of aimed ranged combat. It doesn't matter where you hit your target.

Originally posted by Edeus

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by Edeus

Ok, so this thread actually explains a lot about dodging attacks and such.  But what about the mesmer Greatsword skill 1 ability that is a lightning bolt shot instantly and directly at you?

 

Also, for those that did pvp in the beta, since pvp becoems one big running around fest, did aoe's end up becoming king? 

What pvp? arena or wvw? I felt aoe to be more usefull in arena since you can defend points more effectively with aoe. In wvw aoe can be effective whille attacking or defending a keep but in skirmishes or zerg battles picking off enemies one by one seems way more effective.

Ok I see.  I might be un-informed, but if 2 ranged people are fighting each other, and both use spells/abilities that can be cast while moving, and both are moving to avoid the other's attacks, how will anyone ever die?

PS: I suppose it will involve the terrain, setting traps, using targetting aoe, etc.

 

I can only see something similar to your scenario with two REALLY good players. Remember that most of the playyer base is not really that good and will be able to get out of the reach of harms way.

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

 

 

I've been stating over and over again: that it doesn't equate to aiming, but it may be the people's first guess when they see the advertisement and try to imagine how something may be more "action-oriented" than WoW. Is it really that unreasonable for a person who spends max 30 minutes everyday reading about games @@?

It isn't unreasonable. However, having played it and knowing this isn't true, as most who've tried would also see

IMO. The spreading of misinformation as fact can be even more hurtful to the uninitiated to the game.

Which is why posters here are trying to debunk what we perceive as inaccuracies by these misinformed people.

The effect is being called a fanboy simply by providing a more positive view of said game. Do you realize the pages upon pages of posts here on GW2, do you really think someone with less than 30 minutes/day can scan and read all of it just to happen and fall on pertinent information?

It also doesn't help when posters here know of certain poster's views and agendas regarding certain games that, in wishing to help those new viewers, try to rectify the facts so the thread isn't simply taken for granted?

Originally posted by Edeus

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by Edeus

Ok, so this thread actually explains a lot about dodging attacks and such.  But what about the mesmer Greatsword skill 1 ability that is a lightning bolt shot instantly and directly at you?

 

Also, for those that did pvp in the beta, since pvp becoems one big running around fest, did aoe's end up becoming king? 

What pvp? arena or wvw? I felt aoe to be more usefull in arena since you can defend points more effectively with aoe. In wvw aoe can be effective whille attacking or defending a keep but in skirmishes or zerg battles picking off enemies one by one seems way more effective.

Ok I see.  I might be un-informed, but if 2 ranged people are fighting each other, and both use spells/abilities that can be cast while moving, and both are moving to avoid the other's attacks, how will anyone ever die?

PS: I suppose it will involve the terrain, setting traps, using targetting aoe, etc.

 

Player skill. (Correct use of CC, correct use of skills, which means not on cooldown but when it makes sense, etc.)

Originally posted by IPolygon

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Sector13

What makes a game action based is more about hit boxes then no targetting. GW2 doesn't use hit boxes which is why sometimes hits that should hit dont register and why swings that miss do register. 

GW2 does use hit boxes.

 

Where the shit did you get the idea that it didn't?

GW2 uses one hitbox for all playable races. I don't know if the hitboxes in Tera are all the same size too, but afaik they only have one for each model too. That's why Tera has an illusion of aimed ranged combat. It doesn't matter where you hit your target.

The guy was just straight wrong in an embarrassingly obvious way to those that have actually played. He literally said that GW2 doesn't use hit boxes. Obviously this is false if you've played even 1 second of melee.

Why can't people just play them both and decide which combat they find to be more fun? Neither is "right' or "wrong", they're different and will appeal to different folks. 

Not having played gw2 yet, I can't really comment on it. Recently playing Tera I can say that it's the most fun I've had in combat just about ever. It makes just grinding mobs and trying different abilities really fun. 

Originally posted by Ezhae

It's actually partially non-tab based. Yes, you can tab target and you will attack in the direction of the mob/person you have targetted but:

- many attacks have arc and can be done without targetting anyone, which means you can run into group and spam your wide attack to hit several people at once without targetting any of them. 

- ranged attack have defined range and it won't autorun you into range, you can also shoot them without targetting anyone and still hit people 

- you can dodge away from both physical attacks as well as projectiles 

- there is also a lot of ground targetted attacks even for melee characters that you will have to aim to hit somoene.

swtor have the same system is not just gw2.

Originally posted by IPolygon

Originally posted by Edeus

Originally posted by Kuppa
 

What pvp? arena or wvw? I felt aoe to be more usefull in arena since you can defend points more effectively with aoe. In wvw aoe can be effective whille attacking or defending a keep but in skirmishes or zerg battles picking off enemies one by one seems way more effective.

Ok I see.  I might be un-informed, but if 2 ranged people are fighting each other, and both use spells/abilities that can be cast while moving, and both are moving to avoid the other's attacks, how will anyone ever die?

PS: I suppose it will involve the terrain, setting traps, using targetting aoe, etc.

 

Player skill. (Correct use of CC, correct use of skills, which means not on cooldown but when it makes sense, etc.)

Ah ok.  And thanks Kuppa for your reply, and all the rest.  (this thread moves so quickly).  Now I'm curious as to how well all the different classes and weapon combo's mesh with all the other classes/weapon combo's. 

What's the big deal?

It's tab-targetting with some evasion mechanics.  Like it hasn't been done before.

Its been done to death so far but......

No, GW2 is not a Tab-Targeting game in the sense of most MMO's

No, GW2 is not an Aim-based system, at least not entirely. Some aiming is nessecary, but the mechanics support target lock.

It looks like melee is not in doubt. That is a style that needs next to zero Tab-Targeting. You hit what your aiming at. It needs to be said that you CAN use Tab-Targeting as well and it will auto-face you if you do, so this is a more effective method in general.

With ranged combat, its a little more complicated.

Lets say I'm a  Ranger. If i hit the 1 key I fire an arrow, wether or not I have an enemy targeted. If he is targeted, and in range, then he will be hit unless 

1) He uses an ability to dodge or absorb the hit or

2) Someone or something obstructs the shot.

If no one is targeted, it will move in a straight line until hitting something. An enemy will take damage if hit. So while its possible to play ranged without tab targeting, because of the small hitboxes and the increased accuracy while tab targeted, it is not very effective.

TL;DR - To say that tab-targeting is not a major part of combat is foolish. To say that it is a tab targeting game is foolish. It is a hybrid style in every sense of the word. You are encouraged to target, but keep your opions open and realize you attacks are not confinded to the targeted indiviual.

Originally posted by hikaru77

Originally posted by Ezhae

It's actually partially non-tab based. Yes, you can tab target and you will attack in the direction of the mob/person you have targetted but:

- many attacks have arc and can be done without targetting anyone, which means you can run into group and spam your wide attack to hit several people at once without targetting any of them. 

- ranged attack have defined range and it won't autorun you into range, you can also shoot them without targetting anyone and still hit people 

- you can dodge away from both physical attacks as well as projectiles 

- there is also a lot of ground targetted attacks even for melee characters that you will have to aim to hit somoene.

swtor have the same system is not just gw2.

There is one major difference. (besides the obvious ones you missed by not reading the post you quoted)

SWTOR PvP sucks giant balls.

Too much missinformation in here. You can have a target? yes. You can tab a target? Is an option, you can do it. Do you auto face your target? absolutely not. 

That's all, you don't auto-face ur oponent .yYu actually have to follow the action wich is pretty fast since melees have skills to cut distance fast and even have skill that place them in ur back. You actually need skills, tab is a pve thing. Pointless disscussion ever.

Just play the game when you have the chance and find it for yourselves.

Originally posted by Hayasa

Too much missinformation in here. You can have a target? yes. You can tab a target? Is an option, you can do it. Do you auto face your target? absolutely not. 

That's all, you don't auto-face ur oponent .yYu actually have to follow the action wich is pretty fast since melees have skills to cut distance fast and even have skill that place them in ur back. You actually need skills, tab is a pve thing. Pointless disscussion ever.

Just play the game when you have the chance and find it for yourselves.

There is an option to autoface on casting a skill if you are not holding the right mouse button.

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Volkon
You can do that too.

Not in the way that he is asking. You can dodge roll at the right time to become invincible to avoid any attack. I don't think that was anywhere near what he was asking though.

Yeah, I'm not talking about dodge-rolling. I avoided many arrows simply by changing direction after they were fired. If you're keeping a good distance (as I was on my mesmer) it's not terribly hard to do.

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

 

 

I've been stating over and over again: that it doesn't equate to aiming, but it may be the people's first guess when they see the advertisement and try to imagine how something may be more "action-oriented" than WoW. Is it really that unreasonable for a person who spends max 30 minutes everyday reading about games @@?

It isn't unreasonable. However, having played it and knowing this isn't true, as most who've tried would also see

IMO. The spreading of misinformation as fact can be even more hurtful to the uninitiated to the game.

Which is why posters here are trying to debunk what we perceive as inaccuracies by these misinformed people.

The effect is being called a fanboy simply by providing a more positive view of said game. Do you realize the pages upon pages of posts here on GW2, do you really think someone with less than 30 minutes/day can scan and read all of it just to happen and fall on pertinent information?

It also doesn't help when posters here know of certain poster's views and agendas regarding certain games that, in wishing to help those new viewers, try to rectify the facts so the thread isn't simply taken for granted?

I think it is great that people try to give their views to broaden the picture of different aspects, no matter if it is correcting inaccuracies or just giving a different perspective. One reason for why I think it is important, is because of the reason you mention: people with little time to spend reading, will not be able to scan and read all information, so we have to make sure that what they read contains good information if they choose to read large parts of that particular thread.

The opening post would have been better if it contained sources for the rumors though. Other than that, the title is good and the posts that followed reasoned how it was more than regular tab-targetting and it touched the dodge mechanics as well.