Originally posted by svann

Originally posted by Kalfer

Originally posted by svann

If a tab targetted arrow will miss if you move out of the way does that mean that if someone is running you have to lead the target or it will always miss?

When you dodge you automatically protect yourself from damage. that is why rolls are important. they literally make you not take damage.

 

meaning dodging can be used offensively.. you can roll directly into an kiting enemy, avoiding taking the damage as you roll forward him.

 

which again explains why you only got two dodges before your out.. and which also explains why dodging is important in this game. 

I was just asking about normal movement not the dodge mechanic though.  Its been said that you can dodge, or you can just move out of the way.  So does a moving target have to be lead or will always miss?

Moving targets do not have to be led if the skill is a single target skill.

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

 

It doesn't equate, but I can imagine that when someone says "action-oriented" and they think of MMORPGs, they start thinking of aim targeting rather than GW2's style.

Keep in mind, that by putting "action-oriented" in their advertisement, they are implying that it is more action-oriented than other relevant games in the genre. So that leads to the question: in what way is GW2 more "action-oriented" than WoW? If a person doesn't have read much regarding GW2, that can lead to the guess that perhaps it is using a lot of aim targeting. 

Well, the only ones who might think that would be the Tera followers as it seems to be the only 'other' mmo with aim-based 'action'.

Action is also the problem word as you define it to make it fit your premise, as most would also I presume. However, it's only in the wording.

In other mmos like WoW, SWTOR etc, only the AoE spells/abilities could be used to hit multiple targets, everything else was single target only, so a mage 'can' be more action oriented if viewed in a certain light (again, definition of 'action')

They also have mainly stationary casting spells/abilities where you need to stand still and cast, except for melee most of which have instant abilities. GW2 have every class casting/using abilities while moving, so in essence, it IS more action-oriented than other mmo's and a dodge for use anytime provided you have the stam for it. See? My definition is used to reinforce my point of view.

In the end it's all a matter of perspective and you'll choose at the end of the day whatever you find makes you the happiest.

What makes a game action based is more about hit boxes then no targetting. GW2 doesn't use hit boxes which is why sometimes hits that should hit dont register and why swings that miss do register. 

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by svann

Originally posted by Kalfer

Originally posted by svann

If a tab targetted arrow will miss if you move out of the way does that mean that if someone is running you have to lead the target or it will always miss?

When you dodge you automatically protect yourself from damage. that is why rolls are important. they literally make you not take damage.

 

meaning dodging can be used offensively.. you can roll directly into an kiting enemy, avoiding taking the damage as you roll forward him.

 

which again explains why you only got two dodges before your out.. and which also explains why dodging is important in this game. 

I was just asking about normal movement not the dodge mechanic though.  Its been said that you can dodge, or you can just move out of the way.  So does a moving target have to be lead or will always miss?

Moving targets do not have to be led if the skill is a single target skill.

How does that jibe with the idea that you can "move out of the way" (not dodge skill) of a targetted range attack?  If you can step aside before an arrow arrives and it will miss then how does just running not also make an arrow also miss?  Or would the running target need to zigzag to cause a miss?

Originally posted by Sector13

What makes a game action based is more about hit boxes then no targetting. GW2 doesn't use hit boxes which is why sometimes hits that should hit dont register and why swings that miss do register. 

GW2 does use hit boxes.

Where the shit did you get the idea that it didn't?

Originally posted by svann

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by svann

Originally posted by Kalfer

Originally posted by svann

If a tab targetted arrow will miss if you move out of the way does that mean that if someone is running you have to lead the target or it will always miss?

When you dodge you automatically protect yourself from damage. that is why rolls are important. they literally make you not take damage.

 

meaning dodging can be used offensively.. you can roll directly into an kiting enemy, avoiding taking the damage as you roll forward him.

 

which again explains why you only got two dodges before your out.. and which also explains why dodging is important in this game. 

I was just asking about normal movement not the dodge mechanic though.  Its been said that you can dodge, or you can just move out of the way.  So does a moving target have to be lead or will always miss?

Moving targets do not have to be led if the skill is a single target skill.

How does that jibe with the idea that you can "move out of the way" (not dodge skill) of a targetted range attack?  If you can step aside before an arrow arrives and it will miss then how does just running not also make an arrow also miss?  Or would the target need to zigzag to cause a miss?

AoE often has a red circle. You can simply walk out of it (or dodge roll). But when it comes to single target skill, you get hit unless you time your dodge.

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

First of all: I want to state that no matter what a person says in a forum, that still doesn't make it okay for you to start insulting or do other hate-related activities towards the person in question. 

I've seen comments about how MMORPG.com is not a good ground for civilized discussions and I strongly believe that one major reason for that is how easily people resort to insults. 

-----

 

As for the topic:  I can buy that less informed people would automatically think that GW2 is more aim-oriented than it actually is.  An official advertisement video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXwLxIkTcYI does say "action-oriented combat" which implies more action-oriented than the MMORPG norm, which could possibly make a less informed person believe that it may be aim-based. 

So in that sense, the topic holds merit.

 

I do think it is a good idea for the topic starter to link to posts or other sources which claim what you say they claim, since it is always good to present a source. 

 

Sorry, but where does 'Action-oriented' have to equate with aim targeting.

Is it your premise to say that if a game has a tab targeting system then it can't be action-oriented? Really?

When I played with my War in the BWE I never used the tab, I either just swung my 2h hammer at anyone in front of me and it worked great or clicked on a particular atop the ramps if I needed to use my bow, even the greatsword cleaved through multiple enemies. Not action-oriented indeed.

 

 

It doesn't equate, but I can imagine that when someone says "action-oriented" and they think of MMORPGs, they start thinking of aim targeting rather than GW2's style.

Keep in mind, that by putting "action-oriented" in their advertisement, they are implying that it is more action-oriented than other relevant games in the genre. So that leads to the question: in what way is GW2 more "action-oriented" than WoW? If a person doesn't have read much regarding GW2, that can lead to the guess that perhaps it is using a lot of aim targeting. 

Why is action combat equated to aiming or a crosshair?

From wiki

[quote]Action game is a video game genre that emphasizes physical challenges, including hand–eye coordination and reaction-time. The genre includes diverse subgenres such as fighting games, shooter games, and platform games, which are widely considered the most important action games, though some real-time strategy games are also considered to be action games.[/quote]

In the case of GW2 describes movement during combat. In a game like WoW you can mostly play it standing still slapping the mob while the mob slaps you.

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by svann

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by svann

Originally posted by Kalfer

Originally posted by svann

If a tab targetted arrow will miss if you move out of the way does that mean that if someone is running you have to lead the target or it will always miss?

When you dodge you automatically protect yourself from damage. that is why rolls are important. they literally make you not take damage.

 

meaning dodging can be used offensively.. you can roll directly into an kiting enemy, avoiding taking the damage as you roll forward him.

 

which again explains why you only got two dodges before your out.. and which also explains why dodging is important in this game. 

I was just asking about normal movement not the dodge mechanic though.  Its been said that you can dodge, or you can just move out of the way.  So does a moving target have to be lead or will always miss?

Moving targets do not have to be led if the skill is a single target skill.

How does that jibe with the idea that you can "move out of the way" (not dodge skill) of a targetted range attack?  If you can step aside before an arrow arrives and it will miss then how does just running not also make an arrow also miss?  Or would the target need to zigzag to cause a miss?

AoE often has a red circle. You can simply walk out of it (or dodge roll). But when it comes to single target skill, you get hit unless you time your dodge.

Thanks that clears it up.  So its not like skyrim where you can just step aside when the arrow is incoming.

Originally posted by svann

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by svann

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by svann

Originally posted by Kalfer

Originally posted by svann

If a tab targetted arrow will miss if you move out of the way does that mean that if someone is running you have to lead the target or it will always miss?

When you dodge you automatically protect yourself from damage. that is why rolls are important. they literally make you not take damage.

 

meaning dodging can be used offensively.. you can roll directly into an kiting enemy, avoiding taking the damage as you roll forward him.

 

which again explains why you only got two dodges before your out.. and which also explains why dodging is important in this game. 

I was just asking about normal movement not the dodge mechanic though.  Its been said that you can dodge, or you can just move out of the way.  So does a moving target have to be lead or will always miss?

Moving targets do not have to be led if the skill is a single target skill.

How does that jibe with the idea that you can "move out of the way" (not dodge skill) of a targetted range attack?  If you can step aside before an arrow arrives and it will miss then how does just running not also make an arrow also miss?  Or would the target need to zigzag to cause a miss?

AoE often has a red circle. You can simply walk out of it (or dodge roll). But when it comes to single target skill, you get hit unless you time your dodge.

Thanks that clears it up.  So its not like skyrim where you can just step aside when the arrow is incoming.

Right. For instance:

If a ranger clicks a single target arrow skill, it hits you. There is a skill where they channel arrows and you can LoS it while they are channeling. But if they use MEGAWOWZERS arrow attack and you are in LoS, you will get hit.

Originally posted by svann

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by svann

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by svann

Originally posted by Kalfer

Originally posted by svann

If a tab targetted arrow will miss if you move out of the way does that mean that if someone is running you have to lead the target or it will always miss?

When you dodge you automatically protect yourself from damage. that is why rolls are important. they literally make you not take damage.

 

meaning dodging can be used offensively.. you can roll directly into an kiting enemy, avoiding taking the damage as you roll forward him.

 

which again explains why you only got two dodges before your out.. and which also explains why dodging is important in this game. 

I was just asking about normal movement not the dodge mechanic though.  Its been said that you can dodge, or you can just move out of the way.  So does a moving target have to be lead or will always miss?

Moving targets do not have to be led if the skill is a single target skill.

How does that jibe with the idea that you can "move out of the way" (not dodge skill) of a targetted range attack?  If you can step aside before an arrow arrives and it will miss then how does just running not also make an arrow also miss?  Or would the target need to zigzag to cause a miss?

AoE often has a red circle. You can simply walk out of it (or dodge roll). But when it comes to single target skill, you get hit unless you time your dodge.

Thanks that clears it up.  So its not like skyrim where you can just step aside when the arrow is incoming.

You can do that too.

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

First of all: I want to state that no matter what a person says in a forum, that still doesn't make it okay for you to start insulting or do other hate-related activities towards the person in question. 

I've seen comments about how MMORPG.com is not a good ground for civilized discussions and I strongly believe that one major reason for that is how easily people resort to insults. 

-----

 

As for the topic:  I can buy that less informed people would automatically think that GW2 is more aim-oriented than it actually is.  An official advertisement video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXwLxIkTcYI does say "action-oriented combat" which implies more action-oriented than the MMORPG norm, which could possibly make a less informed person believe that it may be aim-based. 

So in that sense, the topic holds merit.

 

I do think it is a good idea for the topic starter to link to posts or other sources which claim what you say they claim, since it is always good to present a source. 

 

Sorry, but where does 'Action-oriented' have to equate with aim targeting.

Is it your premise to say that if a game has a tab targeting system then it can't be action-oriented? Really?

When I played with my War in the BWE I never used the tab, I either just swung my 2h hammer at anyone in front of me and it worked great or clicked on a particular atop the ramps if I needed to use my bow, even the greatsword cleaved through multiple enemies. Not action-oriented indeed.

 

 

It doesn't equate, but I can imagine that when someone says "action-oriented" and they think of MMORPGs, they start thinking of aim targeting rather than GW2's style.

Keep in mind, that by putting "action-oriented" in their advertisement, they are implying that it is more action-oriented than other relevant games in the genre. So that leads to the question: in what way is GW2 more "action-oriented" than WoW? If a person doesn't have read much regarding GW2, that can lead to the guess that perhaps it is using a lot of aim targeting. 

Why is action combat equated to aiming or a crosshair?

From wiki

[quote]Action game is a video game genre that emphasizes physical challenges, including hand–eye coordination and reaction-time. The genre includes diverse subgenres such as fighting games, shooter games, and platform games, which are widely considered the most important action games, though some real-time strategy games are also considered to be action games.[/quote]

In the case of GW2 describes movement during combat. In a game like WoW you can mostly play it standing still slapping the mob while the mob slaps you.

I've been stating over and over again: that it doesn't equate to aiming, but it may be the people's first guess when they see the advertisement and try to imagine how something may be more "action-oriented" than WoW. Is it really that unreasonable for a person who spends max 30 minutes everyday reading about games @@?

This is exactly why Tera's combat system is more fun than GW2.

GW2 is closer to traditional mmorpg combat but with extra twist (dodge mechanic).

Originally posted by svann

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by svann

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by svann

Originally posted by Kalfer

Originally posted by svann

If a tab targetted arrow will miss if you move out of the way does that mean that if someone is running you have to lead the target or it will always miss?

When you dodge you automatically protect yourself from damage. that is why rolls are important. they literally make you not take damage.

 

meaning dodging can be used offensively.. you can roll directly into an kiting enemy, avoiding taking the damage as you roll forward him.

 

which again explains why you only got two dodges before your out.. and which also explains why dodging is important in this game. 

I was just asking about normal movement not the dodge mechanic though.  Its been said that you can dodge, or you can just move out of the way.  So does a moving target have to be lead or will always miss?

Moving targets do not have to be led if the skill is a single target skill.

How does that jibe with the idea that you can "move out of the way" (not dodge skill) of a targetted range attack?  If you can step aside before an arrow arrives and it will miss then how does just running not also make an arrow also miss?  Or would the target need to zigzag to cause a miss?

AoE often has a red circle. You can simply walk out of it (or dodge roll). But when it comes to single target skill, you get hit unless you time your dodge.

Thanks that clears it up.  So its not like skyrim where you can just step aside when the arrow is incoming.

The arrow will be shot at your location or at the direction of movement at the moment of the shot.

If you move out of the location or change direction of movement the arrow can miss depending of distances and such.

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by svann

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by svann

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by svann

Originally posted by Kalfer

Originally posted by svann

If a tab targetted arrow will miss if you move out of the way does that mean that if someone is running you have to lead the target or it will always miss?

When you dodge you automatically protect yourself from damage. that is why rolls are important. they literally make you not take damage.

 

meaning dodging can be used offensively.. you can roll directly into an kiting enemy, avoiding taking the damage as you roll forward him.

 

which again explains why you only got two dodges before your out.. and which also explains why dodging is important in this game. 

I was just asking about normal movement not the dodge mechanic though.  Its been said that you can dodge, or you can just move out of the way.  So does a moving target have to be lead or will always miss?

Moving targets do not have to be led if the skill is a single target skill.

How does that jibe with the idea that you can "move out of the way" (not dodge skill) of a targetted range attack?  If you can step aside before an arrow arrives and it will miss then how does just running not also make an arrow also miss?  Or would the target need to zigzag to cause a miss?

AoE often has a red circle. You can simply walk out of it (or dodge roll). But when it comes to single target skill, you get hit unless you time your dodge.

Thanks that clears it up.  So its not like skyrim where you can just step aside when the arrow is incoming.

You can do that too.

Not in the way that he is asking. You can dodge roll at the right time to become invincible to avoid any attack. I don't think that was anywhere near what he was asking though.

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by svann

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by svann

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by svann

Originally posted by Kalfer

Originally posted by svann

If a tab targetted arrow will miss if you move out of the way does that mean that if someone is running you have to lead the target or it will always miss?

When you dodge you automatically protect yourself from damage. that is why rolls are important. they literally make you not take damage.

 

meaning dodging can be used offensively.. you can roll directly into an kiting enemy, avoiding taking the damage as you roll forward him.

 

which again explains why you only got two dodges before your out.. and which also explains why dodging is important in this game. 

I was just asking about normal movement not the dodge mechanic though.  Its been said that you can dodge, or you can just move out of the way.  So does a moving target have to be lead or will always miss?

Moving targets do not have to be led if the skill is a single target skill.

How does that jibe with the idea that you can "move out of the way" (not dodge skill) of a targetted range attack?  If you can step aside before an arrow arrives and it will miss then how does just running not also make an arrow also miss?  Or would the target need to zigzag to cause a miss?

AoE often has a red circle. You can simply walk out of it (or dodge roll). But when it comes to single target skill, you get hit unless you time your dodge.

Thanks that clears it up.  So its not like skyrim where you can just step aside when the arrow is incoming.

The arrow will be shot at your location or at the direction of movement at the moment of the shot.

If you move out of the location or change direction of movement the arrow can miss depending of distances and such.

Wow... 

Yes, you can be out of range. But for 99% of the skills, if both parties are in range and you unleash a single target attack, it will hit unless the person dodge rolls at just the right moment.

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter 

Why is action combat equated to aiming or a crosshair?

From wiki

[quote]Action game is a video game genre that emphasizes physical challenges, including hand–eye coordination and reaction-time. The genre includes diverse subgenres such as fighting games, shooter games, and platform games, which are widely considered the most important action games, though some real-time strategy games are also considered to be action games.[/quote]

In the case of GW2 describes movement during combat. In a game like WoW you can mostly play it standing still slapping the mob while the mob slaps you.

 

By that definition, any mmo could fit that category. I believe the whole 'up in arms' over this GW2 label is that people will just use what they believe the term used, like 'action-oriented' is to them.

Using a well aimed interrupt in any of the current mmo's could be construed as using reaction time thus fall into wiki's definition of an action oriented game.  :)

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know how this thread was gonna go since OP has been hating on this game for weeks. Oh well.

Here is GW2 combat:

It is more like EQ tab targetting combat. You need to tactically use your skills and skill chains.

You have active dodge in the game like some of the new RPGs.

You active aim AOE skills in combat.

Ok, so this thread actually explains a lot about dodging attacks and such.  But what about the mesmer Greatsword skill 1 ability that is a lightning bolt shot instantly and directly at you?

Also, for those that did pvp in the beta, since pvp becoems one big running around fest, did aoe's end up becoming king? 

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by IPolygon

Wow, the op is full of old news and false information. On the other hand, how can there be still rumors about the game. Everything that's in can be seen in BWE. Everything that's not seen is not in the game.

First of all: all information doesn't get transfered instantly to all potential customers, that's one big reason why there are rumors. Furthermore, the previous BWE had limitations in what content was available. If I recall it correctly, Asura is a part of the game, but it wasn't in the previous BWE. 

However, combat mechanics were in game.

 

I interpretated his statement as a general one regarding all possible rumors and the game as a whole, rather than just such in connection with combat mechanics. However, you may be right, maybe he just meant the combat ones.

Maybe I did word it a bit harshly, but everything that makes this game can be seen in various locations on the internet and everything they (ANet) want to implement has been discussed with the public. Things may not be finished, but you can get a pretty good impression of the game by watching and reading liable sources. Rumors appear when people don't want to educate themselves and guess. However it is the duty of every single person to educate themself.