When I read the many angry and negative posts about Elder Scrolls Online, I wonder if the fail of SWTOR just finally turned the perception of MMO gamers. I know those who preached the failure of MMOs had been few in these forums. Of course some did always warn and point the fingers on design errors and flaws. But by and large fans seemed to have to upper hand. Now TESO has barely been announced and already a shitstorm in upon them. I guess the people working on TESO for years by now must be really smitten, teh.

From my point of view, I think SWTOR really woke up people that some lazy ideas and "play it all safe", sticking to the known and proven WOW-model just isn't good enough. As DarkPony pointed out so well in his blog, we gamers just got older, but games did not evolve with us. I think SWTORs failure to capitalize on the experience of MMOs of the last year really opened many players eyes. Finally, I can only say. As someone who for many years was in the minority of critics todwards the MMO trends, I am kinda glad to see people now are less blind to cheap design methods of the past. If that were so, the failure of SWTOR would at least have some good. ;)

Opinions?

Fail? When did this happen?

By the way, go see The Avengers. Its awesome, and it might take your mind off of TOR for a while.

I would agree that many more gamers are skeptical these days. It seem like the games that we want to play are just not being made. I think the problem lies with the explosion of the gaming industry.

Games take a bazillion dollars to make, especially AAA titles like SWTOR. The problem is that with a pricetag like that, no one is going to take a risk and try something new for risk of losing a ton of money. We are seeing this over and over. The problem is that the games that are going to the "safe and easy" route are failing as well. If I were attempting to make an MMO out of a favorite IP, I would be scared to death.

The next big thing is not going to be a familiar IP with all the high expectations and price. It's going to be something new and cheap and  INNOVATIVE.  

To us, SWTOR is a failure, it may be losing subs, but it made an enormous amount money in its first 6 months. So, I dont really see how the industry doesn't just keep doing it. FOr there are enough gamers now who will keep playing those type of games to float them.

The trend you should be calling for is an end to preorders. If players would stop doing that, that would be a far more effective message that somethign is wrong. Cuz it was the preorders that proved SWTOR a success.

Originally posted by WhiteLantern

Fail? When did this happen?

 

By the way, go see The Avengers. Its awesome, and it might take your mind off of TOR for a while.

I agree witth both statements. The Avengers was pretty awesome 

Even though I hate SWTOR as much as the next guy around here, I don't think it exactally "failed". Actually it's doing quite well from the stats I've heard. Anyways, hopefully some of the upcoming games that are trying to change things will open up producers to more innovative game design, but that's just me being a wishful thinker.

There will always be people that will complain about anything- it gives them something to do. Regarding TOR, I think the only thing it has done (along with ME:3) is show players that when EA assimilates a developer nothing but EA remains.

If TOR really had an impact I think we'd see fewer pre-orders and pre-purchases in MMOs but that certainly isn't the case. There will seemingly always be players that will throw money at games because they are the "next big thing."

Originally posted by WhiteLantern

Fail? When did this happen?

 

By the way, go see The Avengers. Its awesome, and it might take your mind off of TOR for a while.

I do not discuss the question if SWTOR is or is not a fail. I respect if someone disagrees, but at least here we can be pretty sure those who do see it as fail are the majority.

Please stick to the topic. ;)

I still play the game and I'm still having fun.  Didn't fail to me

And I'm still going to pre-order cause I know what I'm buying.

Any change won't be felt for 3+ years. It takes time to make an MMO.

Edit: Look at ES online, it is another themepark grinder and it won't be released for more than an year still.  If ES fails like Swtor though, I'm pretty sure the developers will start to get the message (even moreso if GW2 is a success).

I hope it helps people redefine what -AAA- is supposed to mean. Instead of just slapping these fiat ratings on anything with some new shinny..

People need to be self informed. Don't always think the new #trend is the thing to do..

In all aspects of life..

SWTOR hasn't failed yet.  There's still some hope for them.  A killer expansion with amazing space combat or converting to a GW2 B2P model are two possibilities.

Sandboxers will hate any Theme Park MMO.  AAA Theme Park MMO's need to release with current standard features and improve the genre in some way.

Originally posted by Elikal

Originally posted by WhiteLantern

Fail? When did this happen?

 

By the way, go see The Avengers. Its awesome, and it might take your mind off of TOR for a while.

I do not discuss the question if SWTOR is or is not a fail. I respect if someone disagrees, but at least here we can be pretty sure those who do see it as fail are the majority.

Please stick to the topic. ;)

Okay - the perception here will not cause designers to change given that

1 SWTOR is the Number 2 MMO in America

2 SWTOR has been the number 1 seller globally in half the weeks since release - in top 3 the other weeks.

3 SWTOR has made a ton of money.

Not much else to be discussed unless you want to change subject about will the actual success  cause companies to create more SWTOR/WoW clones

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

SWTOR hasn't failed yet.  There's still some hope for them.  A killer expansion with amazing space combat or converting to a GW2 B2P model are two possibilities.

Swtor is going the way of AoC and WAR, nice launch day box sales, then a very steep sub decline within the first few months.

Considering BW had the money, time, and IP and still released a sub-par game, I wouldn't get my hopes up that they will release an awesome expansion or even fix the problems they currently have.

Swtor will go the way of WAR once EA starts crunching the numbers, maintenance only with bugs and other issues that  exsist for years.

Originally posted by Elikal

Originally posted by WhiteLantern

Fail? When did this happen?

 

By the way, go see The Avengers. Its awesome, and it might take your mind off of TOR for a while.

I do not discuss the question if SWTOR is or is not a fail. I respect if someone disagrees, but at least here we can be pretty sure those who do see it as fail are the majority.

Please stick to the topic. ;)

   I find it amazing with your arrogant attitude toward the millions of us who enjoy swtor and Biowares amazing products. Bioware set out to do what it does best and that is make a great story with great production values and mmo elements. If you and many others see swtor as a failure that is ok, however don't lump the rest of us into your morass. mmorpg.com while i enjoy the site is filled with haters of every game including Tera, pre and post cu swg, wow, eve, etc, etc

Originally posted by Elikal

Originally posted by WhiteLantern

Fail? When did this happen?

 

By the way, go see The Avengers. Its awesome, and it might take your mind off of TOR for a while.

I do not discuss the question if SWTOR is or is not a fail. I respect if someone disagrees, but at least here we can be pretty sure those who do see it as fail are the majority.

Please stick to the topic. ;)

Holy shit Elikal, really? I am honestly disappointed in you, not that you care. Thought you were better than this. You of all people here acting like you are the arbiter of all that is correct and right in the MMO world. That just because SOME people on a site that hates ALL MMO's since DAoC thinks that a game is "fail" IN THEIR OPINION means it is written in stone. And when someone rightly points out you are wrong you tell them "can't talk about that because it does not agree with my mindset".

Honestly I can't believe you would post such shit as this obvious troll topic is and feel good about yourself.

Sticking to your troll topic: Yes it has. It has shown that some people would bitch if their ass was wiped for them. It has shown that you cannot please everybody. It has shown that those that are not pleased will cry FAIL and expect everyone to agree with them.

Is that the answer you were looking for? Another "Spotlight Post" to add to your count?

Originally posted by bartoni33

Originally posted by Elikal

Originally posted by WhiteLantern

Fail? When did this happen?

 

By the way, go see The Avengers. Its awesome, and it might take your mind off of TOR for a while.

I do not discuss the question if SWTOR is or is not a fail. I respect if someone disagrees, but at least here we can be pretty sure those who do see it as fail are the majority.

Please stick to the topic. ;)

Holy shit Elikal, really? I am honestly disappointed in you, not that you care. Thought you were better than this. You of all people here acting like you are the arbiter of all that is correct and right in the MMO world. That just because SOME people on a site that hates ALL MMO's since DAoC thinks that a game is "fail" IN THEIR OPINION means it is written in stone. And when someone rightly points out you are wrong you tell them "can't talk about that because it does not agree with my mindset".

Honestly I can't beleive you would post such shit as this obvious troll topic is and feel good about yourself.

Sticking to yout troll topic: Yes it has. It has shown that some people would bitch if their ass was wiped for them. It has shown that you cannot please everybody. It has shown that those that are not pleased will cry FAIL and expect everyone to agree with them.

Is that the answer you were looking for? Another "Spotlight Post" to add to your count?

   Agreed!,  and this is a spotlight poster? of what?

Well I actually understand what hes saying. I dont get it either why people are bashing Elder scrolls. As for TOR people need to realize that not to many people bashed it when it was announced, if anything the majority of the people were happy and excited. It wasent until beta and then when the game was released that people realized that it was like Ferrari making Lada. Sure it works and people play it, but lets be realistic here and agree that the money that was put into it and the outcome of what they actually produced was a fail. 

I dont think its change. Look at TESO. Theyre doing the exact same thing. I think whats going on is the age of MMO players who started(with WoW/Ultima) are older and now these games dont satisfy our gaming needs. The companies try to recreate what we thought was fun (years ago) instead of creating new games. If anything I think SWTOR is just another sign the MMO market is stagnant.

Originally posted by snoop101

Well I actually understand what hes saying. I dont get it either why people are bashing Elder scrolls. As for TOR people need to realize that not to many people bashed it when it was announced, if anything the majority of the people were happy and excited. It wasent until beta and then when the game was released that people realized that it was like Ferrari making Lada. Sure it works and people play it, but lets be realistic here and agree that the money that was put into it and the outcome of what they actually produced was a fail. 

   It is the only mmo out there with a good story, The space game right now is a fail but Bioware has a chance to improve that and I hope they will

Originally posted by eddieg50

   It is the only mmo out there with a good story,

Yeah, cuz Knights of the Old Republic is a much better story than say..oh I dont know.. Lord of the Rings?