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General Discussion  » The only reason people are hating on this game

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126 posts found
  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7195

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

5/06/12 9:32:05 AM#81
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Vesavius

Your general tone means I really cba to try and and have a deep conversation with you about the game, so I will just say I didn't call it a WoW clone... I called it simply a 'generic clone' and said it's feature list was disapointing, especially compared to what Archeage is showing.

I personally think my use of the 'unambitious' is valid for the title, based on what they have chosen to show.

Right now AA is setting the bar for what a modern 'conventional' MMO should look like in terms of features. If XL games can do it, why not the cash rich Zenimax?

My general tone is no more or no less what has been seen through the entirety of these conversations. I'm looking forward to AA myself, doesn't mean every game has to be what AA is.

 

No it certainly doesn't, I agree.

But it is undeniable that Zenimax and XL are in the same race (much more so then, say, SWtOR and GW2 are) and comparisons are unavoidable.

Isn't TESO meant to land next year? That might well put it more or less in the same window as AA in the West... If I was Zenimax I wouldn't be looking forward to that.

  Chrome1980

Novice Member

Joined: 4/14/12
Posts: 523

5/06/12 9:33:09 AM#82
Originally posted by Ryowulf

Everything suggests its not going to be a "freely roaming a vast living world". It looks like they started this game a few years ago, when it was believed WoW was still the thing to copy, but that ship has sailed. How could they know GW2 and Tera would be coming? Heck the cost model is probably still sub based.

Now they have invested to much time and money or they are to set in their ways to change the game.

Don't know if we are reading the same articles but whatever i have read shows that TESO is a free roaming open world MMO. If you see something in distance you can go there. it has no quest hubs and you find objectives, quests etc by roaming and exploring.

 

  Burntvet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2757

5/06/12 9:33:11 AM#83
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Burntvet
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Chrisbox

Is because its using hero engine, and people think that it will fail like swtor.  Im hardcore laughing at these threads from people who are already trying to judge this game after it just gets ANNOUNCED. 

 

Lets not be juvenile about it.... 'hater this, 'hater' that... it is all so childish.

I am 'hating' (ie being critical and expressing my thoughts) on it due to the stated feature list. Information the devs have released for us to see and talk about.

It is extremely dissapointing for a modern game and if it ends up being launched anywhere near Archeage it will look even worse.

I also agree with the guys stating that it actually seem a TES game at all, but just a generuc clone with TES branding.

A lot of people just expected better. If they are reacting strongly it is because they have recently been bitten by another unambitious generic clone sold on a popular branding, so the timing makes it doubly bad for Zenimax.

Yeah, I am right there with you.

And shame on the designers for claiming that certain things are "too hard" to put in an MMO. Really? I seem to remember player housing all the way back to say... let's see, alot of the original MMOs made 10+ years ago, and these guys are copping out on it now?

Pathetic....

 

I do agree with the parts I clipped, I just did so in the interest of space and clarity :)

 

I especially agree with the last paragraph though. And the truth is it isn't even 10 years ago, it is happening right now in a game in a no NDA beta state.

It is getting to be an all too common refrain from developers these days... "It's too hard to put in an MMO..."

Cryptic pulled that, for instance, with no multiplayer ships in STO, when SWG had the same things many years before...

Same thing with player owned NPC vendors in various games before, but now, "it's too hard..." (That was kind of what I meant with the 10+ years bit, devs could do it then, but the modern devs with better engines and better tools can't? Probably because devs needed to be better in their design and programming back then....

 

It's like the whole genre has regressed to the point, that apparently, there was no such thing as an MMO prior to WoW...

 

 

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16706

5/06/12 9:35:27 AM#84
Originally posted by Ryowulf

Everything suggests its not going to be a "freely roaming a vast living world". It looks like they started this game a few years ago, when it was believed WoW was still the thing to copy, but that ship has sailed. How could they know GW2 and Tera would be coming? Heck the cost model is probably still sub based.

Now they have invested to much time and money or they are to set in their ways to change the game.

Nah, they hired in their lead designers because he was one of the people behind DaoC so it makes sense that they want the game to be closer to it.

I don't think it will be a bad game, there are numerous threads of people here begging for a new DaoC but the rel question is what the current Bethesda fans will think of it. And maybe the mechanics of DaoC wont feel so great when the game releases 10 years after the original game or so.

  SoulOfRaziel

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/23/06
Posts: 411

5/06/12 9:37:56 AM#85

the real reason is because TES online is going to be like any other mmorpg out there but with tes history

  grimfall

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/07
Posts: 1157

5/06/12 9:40:15 AM#86
Originally posted by SoulOfRaziel

the real reason is because TES online is going to be like any other mmorpg out there but with tes history

Pretty much this.  All the people who have been screaming for Elder Scrolls online for years... it's already been made.  It's called Vanguard and you don't play it.

  NomadMorlock

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/09/07
Posts: 450

5/06/12 9:44:50 AM#87
Originally posted by Chrisbox

Is because its using hero engine, and people think that it will fail like swtor.  Im hardcore laughing at these threads from people who are already trying to judge this game after it just gets ANNOUNCED. 

 

 

Op, your statment is ignorant.

 

It is the lack of features even remotely resembling the games of this series.

  NomadMorlock

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/09/07
Posts: 450

5/06/12 9:47:53 AM#88
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Vesavius

Your general tone means I really cba to try and and have a deep conversation with you about the game, so I will just say I didn't call it a WoW clone... I called it simply a 'generic clone' and said it's feature list was disapointing, especially compared to what Archeage is showing.

I personally think my use of the 'unambitious' is valid for the title, based on what they have chosen to show.

Right now AA is setting the bar for what a modern 'conventional' MMO should look like in terms of features. If XL games can do it, why not the cash rich Zenimax?

My general tone is no more or no less what has been seen through the entirety of these conversations. I'm looking forward to AA myself, doesn't mean every game has to be what AA is.

 

No it certainly doesn't, I agree.

But it is undeniable that Zenimax and XL are in the same race (much more so then, say, SWtOR and GW2 are) and comparisons are unavoidable.

Isn't TESO meant to land next year? That might well put it more or less in the same window as AA in the West... If I was Zenimax I wouldn't be looking forward to that.

 

If I were Zenimax, I would be thinking "How can I remake this game, include at least some of the features of an Elder Scrolls game, and still get it out next year."  That, or "Maybe I should jump ship before my name as a developer is linked forever to this monumental failure."

  p_c_sousa

Novice Member

Joined: 3/31/08
Posts: 627

5/06/12 10:00:31 AM#89
Originally posted by morlock9
Originally posted by Chrisbox

Is because its using hero engine, and people think that it will fail like swtor.  Im hardcore laughing at these threads from people who are already trying to judge this game after it just gets ANNOUNCED. 

 

 

Op, your statment is ignorant.

 

It is the lack of features even remotely resembling the games of this series.

true. the really fans of TES games know this. 

  SelfDestructPro

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/08
Posts: 322

5/06/12 10:06:34 AM#90

No the real reason people are pissed is because they're taking on the autoaim, hotkey special combat mechanics that every other MMO out there uses.  The whole Hero Engine thing is an added bonus to the uproar.  Seriously, what elements of the Elder Scrolls games are they even going to be using if not the combat?

  darker70

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/21/08
Posts: 821

A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five.
Groucho Marx

5/06/12 10:07:42 AM#91
Originally posted by firefly2003
Originally posted by Chrisbox

Is because its using hero engine, and people think that it will fail like swtor.  Im hardcore laughing at these threads from people who are already trying to judge this game after it just gets ANNOUNCED. 

I've been kinda scratching my head over that one myself consider The Repopulation http://www.therepopulation.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=175&Itemid=457 is using the Hero Engine and its a spiritual sucessor of SWG and its got player cities and housing and all the things sandbox players want, there's nothing wrong with the engine just the studio that makes bad games with it.

I only dislike cause what I've seen so far the game is so far removed from what the ES really is player freedom, and there used to be that in MMOs once upon a time its a slap in the face to the core of their fanbase including myself, I'm glad Zenimax is doing this so I can't lose any respect for the Bethesda team. If all of this is true being and been there done that MMO when I read the article soon I don't think this MMO will do really well at all.

Well  done nice to see somebody with a bit of bloody common sense,sometimes i feel i f i got a hammer and a nail and repeatedly smacked a trolls head with it  i still would not knock any common sense into their skulls,thanks again for restoreing my faith in humanity !!

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15598

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

5/06/12 10:18:21 AM#92
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Vesavius

Your general tone means I really cba to try and and have a deep conversation with you about the game, so I will just say I didn't call it a WoW clone... I called it simply a 'generic clone' and said it's feature list was disapointing, especially compared to what Archeage is showing.

I personally think my use of the 'unambitious' is valid for the title, based on what they have chosen to show.

Right now AA is setting the bar for what a modern 'conventional' MMO should look like in terms of features. If XL games can do it, why not the cash rich Zenimax?

My general tone is no more or no less what has been seen through the entirety of these conversations. I'm looking forward to AA myself, doesn't mean every game has to be what AA is.

 

No it certainly doesn't, I agree.

But it is undeniable that Zenimax and XL are in the same race (much more so then, say, SWtOR and GW2 are) and comparisons are unavoidable.

Isn't TESO meant to land next year? That might well put it more or less in the same window as AA in the West... If I was Zenimax I wouldn't be looking forward to that.

This may be so, and I'm not saying TESO is going to do well, my beef is the assertion that it's a clone of WOW or TOR, when what I've read doesn't resmeble those games much if at all.

AA is more or less a new take on the sand-themepark hybrid. And it looks very impressive. That's based on all things considered of what we know and have seen, not just one or two things that may be in the game or not.

This is the problem when it comes to those commenting on how good or bad this game may or may not be. We don't have the whole picture. For instance their take on PVE sounds rather interesting for an MMO IMO. Real explortation seems to be the focus, that alone could do very well, if it's done well, on top of that three way PVP can be a lot better than FFA or TWo way if done rght. It all comes down to how well this stuff is executed. Which we have no idea of at this point. It also depends on what the whole package turns out to be, which we have no idea of as well.

THose who are up in arms about the diversion from TES have a point, and I can't argue against it, I respect their right to feel that way. But when they let that guide nonsensical points and witty retorts well that's a different story.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7195

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

5/06/12 11:30:22 AM#93
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Vesavius

Your general tone means I really cba to try and and have a deep conversation with you about the game, so I will just say I didn't call it a WoW clone... I called it simply a 'generic clone' and said it's feature list was disapointing, especially compared to what Archeage is showing.

I personally think my use of the 'unambitious' is valid for the title, based on what they have chosen to show.

Right now AA is setting the bar for what a modern 'conventional' MMO should look like in terms of features. If XL games can do it, why not the cash rich Zenimax?

My general tone is no more or no less what has been seen through the entirety of these conversations. I'm looking forward to AA myself, doesn't mean every game has to be what AA is.

 

No it certainly doesn't, I agree.

But it is undeniable that Zenimax and XL are in the same race (much more so then, say, SWtOR and GW2 are) and comparisons are unavoidable.

Isn't TESO meant to land next year? That might well put it more or less in the same window as AA in the West... If I was Zenimax I wouldn't be looking forward to that.

This may be so, and I'm not saying TESO is going to do well, my beef is the assertion that it's a clone of WOW or TOR, when what I've read doesn't resmeble those games much if at all.

the diversion from TES have a point, and I can't argue against it, I respect their right to feel that way. But when they let that guide nonsensical points and witty retorts well that's a different story.

*edited for space rather then content*

 

I can see where you are coming from and the majority of what you say is valid.

Are folks over reacting? Sure they are, they always do, but there is a kernal of truth to the over reaction... People expected the unique play experience of Skyrim to be ported into a game they could share with others, which this obviously isn't (whatever else it may be). They see it as a missed opportunity to do something special.

 

I would personally rather just have seen an optional multiplayer DLC launched for Skyrim then what is being offered here tho tbh, but that's just me.

 

 

  Uhwop

Elite Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1656

5/06/12 3:40:14 PM#94
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Chrisbox

Is because its using hero engine, and people think that it will fail like swtor.  Im hardcore laughing at these threads from people who are already trying to judge this game after it just gets ANNOUNCED. 

 

Lets not be juvenile about it.... 'hater this, 'hater' that... it is all so childish.

I am 'hating' (ie being critical and expressing my thoughts) on it due to the stated feature list. Information the devs have released for us to see and talk about.

It is extremely dissapointing for a modern game and if it ends up being launched anywhere near Archeage it will look even worse.

I also agree with the guys stating that it actually seem a TES game at all, but just a generuc clone with TES branding.

A lot of people just expected better. If they are reacting strongly it is because they have recently been bitten by another unambitious generic clone sold on a popular branding, so the timing makes it doubly bad for Zenimax.

What aspect of that feature list is so bad, a lot of it seemed to deviate from these clones people are tired of?  FACT

This is what I find so ironic, as its a clear sign people are ignoring the feature list only to label it with their witty clone remarks, when it's nothing like WOW (today) or TOR in terms of overall design. No quest hubs, actual exploration in an open world, Three faction PVP, open dungeons (not all).

There may be raids but with actual RVR that leaves more than one viable end-game option. WHich none of these clones people keep comparing it to have had.

This hate is all about it not being in lock step with TES designs, not the feature list. That is obvious saying otherwise is laughable.

 I like this.  Some people evolve the arguement to the point of "people are ignoring the feature list".

It's "ironic" that you would say that, when the leak mad it a point to indicate that almost all features of TESO will function like WoW.

That "vast open world to explore" I'm seeing people say is just like an ES game, aslo ended with the blurb "although, you may have to LEVEL UP in order to survive."  Am I the only one that understood that it means the world will split into level appropriate zones intended for characters of specific levels to adventure in.  I can go anywhere I want in just about any themepark MMO, including WoW, but I always have to LEVEL UP in orer to survive.  That doesn't mean quite the samething as an open world to explore that isn't broken down into effectively level restricted zones that are intended to guide you through the world as you level up.  It's also a clear indication that I you won't be able to just go to any zone and level up, because you'll have to level up before you go to that zone to level up. 

No quest hubs doesn't mean no quest hubs any more then GW2 has no quest hubs; it in fact does.  It was only pointed out that it won't have your traditional go into an area, grab 10 quest type quest hubs, but will instead use something more "event" like, ala GW2.  Every one of those events in GW2 is the exact same thing as a quest hub, chaging the devlivery mechanic doesn't change the fact that you're still playing a quest grinder. 

I go into a town, there are one or two NPC's that may have something for me to do.  One of them tells me about a cave not far from town and suggests I go explore it.  I go to the cave and find it occupied by goblins; so I kill a few of them as I venture a little deaper into the cave.  I then come upon an object that I can interact with, I click it and it gives me some information that there's something special about this item, and perhaps if I venture a little further into the cave I may discover more info.  After going a little deeper I stumble on a scholar in trouble, I help him and he explains that the item I found earlier is a special artifact, he thanks me for saving him and askes me to deliver the artifact to an NPC in the town I came from or another one not far away.  I deliver the artifact to the NPC, or perhaps I'm given the option to take it to someone else, irregardless the NPC I take it to gives me another quest based.  So on and so forth. 

Sure I didn't go into a town, grab ten quests, go out and complete them and then return to the quest givers for my reward.  But it's still grinding quests; something you never had to do in the ES games, and which was a big point of those games. 

I'm not saying that's bad, I would in fact prefer to quest like I described or like GW2 is doing, but it doesn't actually change what it is.  I'm sorry, but everything I read was a pretty clear indicator that you'll be doing quests as your primary means of LEVELING UP in TESO.  Objectivie based gameplay that you couldn't diverge from was not what Weaver ever intended the ES franchise to be.

All of the features, including the 3 faction pvp, and endgame focus on pvp, are a step backwards for the ES franchise. 

Writing  fact in all caps doesn't make what you wrote a fact, it just means you wrote a bunch of words and want to pass them off as facts.

  GroovyFlower

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/11
Posts: 1252

Skyrim

5/06/12 4:24:38 PM#95
Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by Chrisbox

Is because its using hero engine, and people think that it will fail like swtor.  Im hardcore laughing at these threads from people who are already trying to judge this game after it just gets ANNOUNCED. 

No, not really. The reason is closer to Diablo 3s cold reception here.

The elder scroll series have many fans here, just like the Diablo serie have and in both cases are the companies changing the formula that the old fans love.

That does not mean either of the games are bad, but D3 is made for people who enjoy Wow and ESO is made for fans of regular themepark MMOs. I personally think that keeping the old fans happy should be the main priority of games like this but Bethesda and Blizzard don't agree.

And they might be right too, there is a potential to get even more players when you change stuff like this, but it might fail miserably as well. If you make a game for old fans you at least have them.

Lets get something straight here OLD fans ?

As i remember from not long ago Skyrim was released not long ago and with the reputation that Elder Scrolls already had MILLIONS of more newly fans are part of fanbase now so partly your right about older fanbase, but new fans that bought Skyrim is almost more then morrowind and oblvion combined.

Bottem line is, this proofs that old and new fans like the way the ELDER SCROLLS series is. And as we all know SKyrim on this MMORPG.COM site was for many months one most spoken and discussed game here even its not a mmo so popular is this game and series among mmorpg.com members.

This btw also apply to bethesda forums.

So the discision that bethesda make is REDICULOUS and betrayal of its fans base, OLD or NEW.

  Savageone

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/13/05
Posts: 62

5/06/12 4:58:31 PM#96

Just wrap it in bacon and everyone will love the game.

Better yet add some bacon coupons inside the CE box.

 

I love it how some have this game DOA.

 

 

  Gishgeron

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 1297

5/06/12 5:00:38 PM#97
Originally posted by Savageone

Just wrap it in bacon and everyone will love the game.

Better yet add some bacon coupons inside the CE box.

 

I love it how some have this game DOA.

 

 

 

  Better be a lot of bacon.  I do love bacon.  Bacon Cupcakes are OMG AWESOME.

  Chrisbox

Elite Member

Joined: 7/15/10
Posts: 1525

 
OP  5/12/12 12:33:07 AM#98
Originally posted by Dredphyre
Originally posted by Chrisbox

Is because its using hero engine, and people think that it will fail like swtor.  Im hardcore laughing at these threads from people who are already trying to judge this game after it just gets ANNOUNCED. 

Oh the fucking irony. Here you are crying about people attacking ESO with unfounded claims, while at the same time attacking SWTOR with unfounded claims (hint: SWTOR is not failing).

 

Maybe next time when you think to attack another game you'll remember when people attacked your game.  Then again, probably not.

I actually played swtor, and supported the hell out of it, only to end up quitting a month ago.  You say its not failing, yet they drop hundreds of thousands of subs in months.  Its not some kind of conspiracy, Bioware has delivered story but has failed to deliver the MMO they promised.  Theres a difference between saying a negative about a game based on fact or gibberish.

Played-Everything
Playing-FFXIV:ARR, DESTINY

  LordZeik

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/17/08
Posts: 185

5/12/12 4:31:03 PM#99

I'm sorry but the hero engine has already been the decisive killer to two mmos....Hero's Journey and Faxion.  So, when people speak up about how they dislike this engine being used I tend to agree with them. I'm sure all those old UTV Ignition employees now working at some gamesalad company would agree that the hero engine is problematic. Look at SWTOR for a moment... They have tossed money, and additional devs from other game projects like DA3 just to try and get things working. Maybe Zenimax will be able to throw enough money and manpower to beat this engine into submission. I just hope if they can manage to get the upper hand of this engine it won't be a little too late down the road.

 

As for the style of the game itself. Let's face it we can stand here all day look at a few screenshots. Hang on the every word of Zenimax.....Where does that get us? Realistically lets just wait eight or so months while they start forming the game. It makes no sense to yell at people for what the masses believe to be wrong ESO concepts.

  MikeJT

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/28/09
Posts: 83

5/13/12 3:25:01 AM#100

I didn't know they were going to run it using the Hero Engine. Quite frankly I haven't even heard of the Hero Engine before.

 

What I have heard is every single press-release that has come out regarding this game and every detail that the developers have let slip to the general public, and I think I can safely say that this game is going to blow.

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