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News & Features Discussion  » General: Introducing the Disgruntled Pony!

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43 posts found
  Ozmodan

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 6682

5/06/12 11:26:19 AM#21
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Ozmodan

Preaching to the choir here.  You have to wonder how so many intelligent people can be so ignorant of what you state.

The problem is they are making games for the "I want it now" generation.  They don't want challenges in any shape or form, just hurry up and get through the game so they can move on to the next one.  And this stupid developers continue to turn out these lead me by the hand games one after the other.  

Just take SWTOR for example.  Everyone was lauding it for the hand holding, but now many people are already bored with the game.  Now many of them are moving on to TERA.  Except for graphical differences they are essentially the same game.  By fall TERA will be a ghost town and the developers hastily converting it to a free to play.   SWTOR will remain around a bit longer as the Star Wars theme will entice a few to stick around.

GW2 is no savior, it is essentially a theme park with a few different angles.  

It will probably take an outsider from the east to change that thinking.  Like with Archage or another game.

 

Since when have you had a list of people's intelligence? I am curious.

Actually that was in reference to the development studios, I am making the assumption they are fairly intelligent to code such games.

  Razeekster

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/09/11
Posts: 1927

May the game be ever in your favor.

5/06/12 11:32:44 AM#22

I'm just waiting and praying ArcheAge comes to the NA. It looks like the perfect blend of a themepark plus sandbox game. Guild Wars 2 will be the game that gets me through all the waiting... Imagine that.


Smile

  SoulOfRaziel

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/23/06
Posts: 411

5/06/12 11:41:48 AM#23
Originally posted by MikeB

Our resident pony, DarkPony, has started his own blog here at MMORPG.com and we're adding him to our highlighted blogs list!

As a kid of 6 years old I was really happy to get a toy car at my birthday but at 16 years old I would have severely frowned at such a gift to say the least.

To me it seems that what the mmorpg industry is doing (at least the "AAA" branded part of it), is consistently developing the gaming equivalent of toy cars, or dolls, if you will, but not realizing that their audience has grown older, more experienced and more able. Even the younger generations are more proficient and more intelligent gamers compared to us older folks when we had their age.

Then why is it that it seems the industry is mainly catering for inexperienced, juvenile gamers?

Check out his debut entry, "A delayed message for AAA mmorpg developers".

This pony scares me.

  Calerxes

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/06/09
Posts: 1659

5/06/12 11:45:20 AM#24

The answer is as simple as this THE PLAYERS have played games and added 3rd party apps that have just told the developers thats how they want to play. All the 3rd party apps like quest helpers, more detailed maps, DPS metres, game wiki's etc... Players always find the path of least resistence in games and that shows the dev's that players want a linear world and this will happen to the lauded GW2 most players will not explore to find the skill point challenges or hidden Dynamic Events they will look them up on a wiki like players in SW:TOR do for the Datacron positions and Codex's you are really swimming upstream with a liking for open worlds where you have to find objectives or make your own and here's where I get to the moderm MMO cliche, you are not the market modern games are aimed at its a bitter pill to swallow but thats the reality.

 

So all you can really do is enjoy modern MMO's for what they are or support the Indie Industry, this is what I do with music, I buy 80% from small independant record labels and there are thousands of music lovers like me so the indie music industry is stronger than ever. But yes I know indie MMO's are poor quality but without your support they'll stay that way. Also you can support these guys with things other than money try to help out in other ways thats how the Linux industry grew to the size it is today and starting to compete with Microsoft and Apple, start supporting and stop bleating on forums about an industry thats doesn't have you in their sights anymore and help the guys that want the same things as you do. 

This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  Sythion

Novice Member

Joined: 6/30/11
Posts: 427

5/06/12 1:11:39 PM#25
Originally posted by Calerxes

 Players always find the path of least resistence in games and that shows the dev's that players want a linear world and this will happen to the lauded GW2 most players will not explore to find the skill point challenges or hidden Dynamic Events they will look them up on a wiki like players in SW:TOR do for the Datacron positions and Codex's you are really swimming upstream with a liking for open worlds where you have to find objectives or make your own and here's where I get to the moderm MMO cliche, you are not the market modern games are aimed at its a bitter pill to swallow but thats the reality

That's not true. Players will both look up in the informaiton online and figure it out themselves. Don't assume that just because some people will skip content that the content has no value.

 

  RizelStar

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2823

We all breathe and we all die.

5/06/12 1:18:49 PM#26
Originally posted by Sythion
Originally posted by Calerxes

 Players always find the path of least resistence in games and that shows the dev's that players want a linear world and this will happen to the lauded GW2 most players will not explore to find the skill point challenges or hidden Dynamic Events they will look them up on a wiki like players in SW:TOR do for the Datacron positions and Codex's you are really swimming upstream with a liking for open worlds where you have to find objectives or make your own and here's where I get to the moderm MMO cliche, you are not the market modern games are aimed at its a bitter pill to swallow but thats the reality

That's not true. Players will both look up in the informaiton online and figure it out themselves. Don't assume that just because some people will skip content that the content has no value.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=7PcKoED7IjM#t=106s

 

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  MMOarQQ

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 659

"Against stupidity the very gods themselves contend in vain."

5/06/12 1:24:44 PM#27

Finally, a little positive news here.

  Calerxes

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/06/09
Posts: 1659

5/06/12 3:52:52 PM#28
Originally posted by Sythion
Originally posted by Calerxes

 Players always find the path of least resistence in games and that shows the dev's that players want a linear world and this will happen to the lauded GW2 most players will not explore to find the skill point challenges or hidden Dynamic Events they will look them up on a wiki like players in SW:TOR do for the Datacron positions and Codex's you are really swimming upstream with a liking for open worlds where you have to find objectives or make your own and here's where I get to the moderm MMO cliche, you are not the market modern games are aimed at its a bitter pill to swallow but thats the reality

That's not true. Players will both look up in the informaiton online and figure it out themselves. Don't assume that just because some people will skip content that the content has no value.

 

 

I'm not saying everyone does it but enough do it so that affects the development process.

This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  just1opinion

Smart-Alek

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 4933

5/06/12 4:07:02 PM#29

 

So someone has picked a new "Savior of the Genre" in Archeage, hm?  Seriously....will you guys ever learn?  No game...N O

GAME is going to be the Savior of the Genre.  Do you know why?  Because gamers have ALL DIFFERENT ideas about what they prefer in games, and there is enough variety in those preferences that ONE game is never going to be "the" game. Period.

 

Aside from that, Pony....great blog with many good points.  But I think I'm one of those "different" gamers that doesn't care for the Archeage direction of things and I'm one of the many people that is holding your blessed genre back (in your eyes).  I mean, after all, I like GW2 and I don't see WoW as the devil and I felt like SWTOR was a really good single player RPG and enjoyed it for what it was and didn't try to make it more than it was.  I gave SoE a sub AND extra money in their cash shops playing EQ2 and loved, loved, loved the game....was happy as a clam.  So I don't fit into the mold of disgruntled players looking for salvation from some new game.  Many games are good, a few are great, but none of them will be the "savior" of the genre.

 

Post onward, Pony!  I love reading your thoughts even if I don't agree with them. :)

President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  Vorthanion

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1917

5/06/12 5:09:15 PM#30



Originally posted by TruthXHurts






Originally posted by Vorthanion





I don't agree with much of your analysis or conclusions and I'm an intelligent person, imagine that.





Do you have some sort of proof? In my experience the only people who claim to be intelligent are usually complete morons. 




 




"When I left him, I reasoned thus with myself: I am wiser than this man, for neither of us appears to know anything great and good; but he fancies he knows something, although he knows nothing; whereas I, as I do not know anything, so I do not fancy I do. In this trifling particular, then, I appear to be wiser than he, because I do not fancy I know what I do not know."







 




That was in response to the first poster who implied anyone who doesn't agree with the blog to be ignorant.  Also, I'm a better judge of my intelligence than some anonymous poster on a backwater website who hasn't a clue who I am or what I am capable of.





 

  AutemOx

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/04
Posts: 1719

5/06/12 6:53:40 PM#31

Originally posted by Distopia

It's funny that you mention item placement, because that is one set of incidents in SWG I was talking about. I guess they never learned from Koster's fix in UO for that, because it happened quite a bit, and the only solution was to contact a GM.


But it's not just that, it's everything players had done over those years. Exploiting open dungeons despite multiple warnings about it from GM's, griefing of any kind be it clone camping ( in games where death mattered this was a pain in the ass). Ganking newbs etc..


In games where this stuff is possible it's always abused.



I still don't think I understand your complaints.  What about an dungeon being open makes it exploitable?  What about dropping Items in SWG caused problems (items could not be dropped in SWG except in private areas)?  


How does a game being sandboxy cause griefing and ganking?  Open world PvP games may result in spawn camping, but as DarkPony says in his article, sandbox games do not require PvP (SWG for instance).  Furthermore theres many ways to deter spawn camping so I am not sure why you brought it up: Multiple spawn points, safe timer, safe zones, etc.


Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.

  Calerxes

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/06/09
Posts: 1659

5/06/12 7:53:10 PM#32
Originally posted by just1opinion

 

So someone has picked a new "Savior of the Genre" in Archeage, hm?  Seriously....will you guys ever learn?  No game...N O

GAME is going to be the Savior of the Genre.  Do you know why?  Because gamers have ALL DIFFERENT ideas about what they prefer in games, and there is enough variety in those preferences that ONE game is never going to be "the" game. Period.

 

Aside from that, Pony....great blog with many good points.  But I think I'm one of those "different" gamers that doesn't care for the Archeage direction of things and I'm one of the many people that is holding your blessed genre back (in your eyes).  I mean, after all, I like GW2 and I don't see WoW as the devil and I felt like SWTOR was a really good single player RPG and enjoyed it for what it was and didn't try to make it more than it was.  I gave SoE a sub AND extra money in their cash shops playing EQ2 and loved, loved, loved the game....was happy as a clam.  So I don't fit into the mold of disgruntled players looking for salvation from some new game.  Many games are good, a few are great, but none of them will be the "savior" of the genre.

 

Post onward, Pony!  I love reading your thoughts even if I don't agree with them. :)

 

It would be great if this sentiment was felt by more around here modern MMO's are what they are and you should just try and balance the good and the bad to make your ultimate decision on whether you like a game and as you say not pin your hopes on an up coming game. If its all bad with every game then its time to get your coat and move on to different games or leave games behind for awhile. I know that would be tough if you've played for many many years but thats the reality that some vets have to realise. For me I've looked at GW2 and there are to many problems with it for me so I'm not buying it but thats a personal decision and it doesn't mean its going to be a bad game, I'm enjoying TERA and TOR at the moment just got off from playing my Bounty Hunter and feel great about the game and I'm looking forward to future development. Hopefully there is game thats floats Dark Pony et al's boat in the future because its tiresome sometimes reading all the deep negativity, thats almost hopelessness at times, that happens around here.

This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3542

Hipster

5/06/12 8:00:51 PM#33
Originally posted by Vorthanion



Originally posted by TruthXHurts






Originally posted by Vorthanion





I don't agree with much of your analysis or conclusions and I'm an intelligent person, imagine that.





Do you have some sort of proof? In my experience the only people who claim to be intelligent are usually complete morons. 




 




"When I left him, I reasoned thus with myself: I am wiser than this man, for neither of us appears to know anything great and good; but he fancies he knows something, although he knows nothing; whereas I, as I do not know anything, so I do not fancy I do. In this trifling particular, then, I appear to be wiser than he, because I do not fancy I know what I do not know."







 




That was in response to the first poster who implied anyone who doesn't agree with the blog to be ignorant.  Also, I'm a better judge of my intelligence than some anonymous poster on a backwater website who hasn't a clue who I am or what I am capable of.





 

 

For an intelligent man you spend far too much time arguing about your intelligence with strangers on a random website.
  shadowkras

Novice Member

Joined: 2/08/09
Posts: 11

5/06/12 10:44:37 PM#34

I would have given this even the smallest thought if the whole thing didnt have ponies involved.


  DarkPony

Steed of Tardcore

Joined: 8/29/08
Posts: 5637

Confident, cocky, lazy, dead.

5/07/12 1:05:38 AM#35

Originally posted by just1opinion

 


So someone has picked a new "Savior of the Genre" in Archeage, hm?  Seriously....will you guys ever learn?  No game...N O


GAME is going to be the Savior of the Genre.  Do you know why?  Because gamers have ALL DIFFERENT ideas about what they prefer in games, and there is enough variety in those preferences that ONE game is never going to be "the" game. Period.


 


Aside from that, Pony....great blog with many good points.  But I think I'm one of those "different" gamers that doesn't care for the Archeage direction of things and I'm one of the many people that is holding your blessed genre back (in your eyes).  I mean, after all, I like GW2 and I don't see WoW as the devil and I felt like SWTOR was a really good single player RPG and enjoyed it for what it was and didn't try to make it more than it was.  I gave SoE a sub AND extra money in their cash shops playing EQ2 and loved, loved, loved the game....was happy as a clam.  So I don't fit into the mold of disgruntled players looking for salvation from some new game.  Many games are good, a few are great, but none of them will be the "savior" of the genre.


 


Post onward, Pony!  I love reading your thoughts even if I don't agree with them. :)



 


Thanks for your reply, Just1.


Actually, ArchAge isn't so much the savior of the genre to me but more of an inkling of hope. It isn't so much that I gushed all over over AA in this post, I mentioned it as it had to be mentioned because it is an in development mmorpg that attempts to break the mold and be more sandboxy in many places and maybe the only one that reeks of AAA quality that tries to do so, currently. But yeah, I'd much rather bet on multiple horses.


I fully realize that placing all your faith on a single title is a great way to set yourself up for disappointment. There are things which I really like to it (mostly in the feature set) and there are things that I don't like so much (disco dancing in bikinis or bermuda shorts in a high fantasy setting, for one). And then there's tons of things we don't really know yet.


And if anything: when and how it will release in the west is still anyone's guess. Whether it will be able to really appeal to those like me is still very uncertain. But yeah, had to mention it. It's also why I wrote "it isn't by choice."


  TwoThreeFour

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2148

5/07/12 8:02:30 AM#36
Originally posted by Ozmodan
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Ozmodan

Preaching to the choir here.  You have to wonder how so many intelligent people can be so ignorant of what you state.

The problem is they are making games for the "I want it now" generation.  They don't want challenges in any shape or form, just hurry up and get through the game so they can move on to the next one.  And this stupid developers continue to turn out these lead me by the hand games one after the other.  

Just take SWTOR for example.  Everyone was lauding it for the hand holding, but now many people are already bored with the game.  Now many of them are moving on to TERA.  Except for graphical differences they are essentially the same game.  By fall TERA will be a ghost town and the developers hastily converting it to a free to play.   SWTOR will remain around a bit longer as the Star Wars theme will entice a few to stick around.

GW2 is no savior, it is essentially a theme park with a few different angles.  

It will probably take an outsider from the east to change that thinking.  Like with Archage or another game.

 

Since when have you had a list of people's intelligence? I am curious.

Actually that was in reference to the development studios, I am making the assumption they are fairly intelligent to code such games.

Where have you seen scientific studies about what an average IQ person is able to achieve when it comes to coding games? 

  Ozmodan

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 6682

5/07/12 8:05:45 AM#37

How about personal experience.  Coding a game is not a trivial experience, from what I have seen it takes talented and intelligent people to understand and create the complex designs that make up games.  Did you think otherwise?

  TwoThreeFour

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2148

5/07/12 8:33:19 AM#38
Originally posted by Ozmodan

How about personal experience.  Coding a game is not a trivial experience, from what I have seen it takes talented and intelligent people to understand and create the complex designs that make up games.  Did you think otherwise?

 

I'll believe that it requires "talented and intelligent" people to do that when I see scientific studies proving that. What makes you so sure that a hard-working person with average IQ but with great discipline wouldn't be able to do that?

  Sythion

Novice Member

Joined: 6/30/11
Posts: 427

5/07/12 10:30:42 AM#39
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Ozmodan

How about personal experience.  Coding a game is not a trivial experience, from what I have seen it takes talented and intelligent people to understand and create the complex designs that make up games.  Did you think otherwise?

 

I'll believe that it requires "talented and intelligent" people to do that when I see scientific studies proving that. What makes you so sure that a hard-working person with average IQ but with great discipline wouldn't be able to do that?

Discipline alone can get you through college and into the working field. But that's all.

  Ambros123

Novice Member

Joined: 12/04/11
Posts: 891

5/07/12 10:45:43 AM#40
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Ozmodan

How about personal experience.  Coding a game is not a trivial experience, from what I have seen it takes talented and intelligent people to understand and create the complex designs that make up games.  Did you think otherwise?

 

I'll believe that it requires "talented and intelligent" people to do that when I see scientific studies proving that. What makes you so sure that a hard-working person with average IQ but with great discipline wouldn't be able to do that?

No task is required to have "talented and intellignet" people as hard work, discipline, dedication can all do that.  Like the classical "smart as a book but no common sense" phrase comes to mind.  However I think it does require a whole higher level in intelligence (could be practical intelligence or book smarts) to design innovative or revolutionary features in a game not coding.

As far as the coding difficulty... is it you need to be intelligent or is it simpely a very complex  and time consuming job? 

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