Originally posted by musicmann

Originally posted by davestr1zl

Originally posted by bcbully

Leveling to level cap sounds so ridiculous in the day and age. Gogo TSW! I crimge at the thought of leveling for the sake of leveling lol. I still don't understand why gw2 has levels. 

Levels are an out dated concept that we will see come to an end after 2013. releases.

You heard it hete first. 

MMORPG - A fundamental element of RPG's is progression, and a levelling system is the most logical, easy to understand, and easy to implement form of progression. Leveling and leveling systems wont cease to exist until another major form of progression is developed or realised that works in a wider sale acroscs RPG's and games with RPG elements. Simply removing progression wont work, as whether you realise it or not it is a core reason and motivation for people continuing to play the game. Without it people either conciously or subconciously lose the desire to play. Its why most MMO's have players fall off at 'end-game'. Its not because there is a lack of content (theres always content if you want to look for it even in some of the worst MMO's), the problem is there is no longer a form of guided progression.

For all these years i thought the RPG in these games meant, actual role playing, didn't realize it meant a leveling progression. So, back in my SWG pre-cu days, when i went into the cantina and asked for a buff and the person i was talking to was totally into that dancers roll,  and i was totally into being that stormtrooper who walked in to check for rebel scum that was said to be hiding, i wasn't RPing . On the other hand, when i was running around as a Blood Elf  taking every quest that i could find in WOW and leveling up and progressing, i was actually Role playing.

I don't think i have ever read something so dumb in my life.

Of course RPG means 'role playing game', I'm not saying RPG = progression, im saying a core element of RPG's is progression. A core element of MMO's is progression too. Role playing is another core element of RPG's too, obviously. That has nothing to do with my argument and doesnt make it 'dumb' in the slightest. Thanks for the input.

Originally posted by kingotnw

How are people surprised by this? The Final Fantasy online games are certainly nothing like the offline versions, and there are a crap-ton more Final Fantasy games than there are Elder Scroll games. World of Warcraft is nothing like the original Warcraft games... It's going to be an MMORPG, it needs to play like one.

With GW2, we know that MMORPG can be developed differently than what we all know. With a familiar IP, they could have challenged themselves and added some new features, new twists, and people will still come and play it because its TES .

No one expected the game to play like an Single Player RPG, they just wanted the features they loved from TES translated into MMORPG. Why couldn't we marry and have player housing, other MMORPG's have Player housing.

Why couldn't we choose our own factions, other MMORPG offers a choose your own faction

Other MMO's offer you to transform into other things through elite skills, why can't I transform into a werewolf, or vampire.

They could have added them, and translate them into their MMO, but they stated that they are not doing that.

It just sounded like its all because of their choosen Engine that they aren't doing any of the minor features of TES that everyone loves. Features that gives life to the IP.

Btw I have always been able to play a mixture of classes in my TES games, I wonder what limits are they gonna put on gamers now that they are introducing Class based characters.

Clear statement about copying old MMO's, the use of HeroEngine, and Bethesda not being involved, is enough to smell a huge fail like SWTOR was. I'll just stick to Skyrim and the next single player TES game (which probably will be Elsweyr) and skip this pathetic mony grabbing attempt. After all I'll have Guild Wars 2 :) But it's always sad to see a beloved IP being destroyed by money hungry, braindead suits ;/ Still trying to recover after Star Wars...

Yeah it's a real shame that they are being so lazy with this type of game. If they truly think that they will be successful with what they are planning, they have rocks in their head. My prediction is that the game will sell some copies around it's release time and then die after about a month, give or take a few days.

By doing this they're going to seriously damage the reputation of their company and the ES series. They're going to have to come out with a really badass single player game to recover from this one...

I think I'll end up buying GW2 afterall. Initially I thought I'd skip it and wait for something better, and TESO was announced. Was really hyped up by this announcement. Then I learned that it wasn't developed by BethGameStudio but by Zenimas Online Studios and that was the first red flag, then the engine was revealed and a second red flag appeared. Now we learn that the game will ressemble WoW or SWTOR and take out many (if not most) of the features that made The TES serie popular. That's the 3rd and last red flag. I will not touch this game. Enough with publishers and developers using popular IPs to put out WoW clones for a quick cash grab.

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Lol at the gw2 comments what we know so far of TESO, the game it has most in common with is....................gw2

No. TESO appears to be closer to DAoC's PvP (in TESO's case 3 Factions at war, which in itself is great) and WoW-like Dungeons (and Questing?). TESO does not offer any Dynamic features (no Radiant AI) and instead seems to offers the traditional classes (holy trinity) found in most MMORPGs. Doesn't sound like GW2 to me, admittedly, I didn't really bother to look into GW2 all that much but, from what I know TESO is nothing like it.

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Lol at the gw2 comments what we know so far of TESO, the game it has most in common with is....................gw2

I think the post above me explained it well.

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Lol at the gw2 comments what we know so far of TESO, the game it has most in common with is....................gw2

From feature list it is still very much TES game with some elements of GW2. Not intentional but following the same trend of non linear approach to the world.

OP, this is crushing news about TESO.  And the game's been in work since 2007.  It's too late to complain about the details now, this being so far along in development.  That ship has left port long ago and is well on its predetermined course.

These rough details about TESO are the exact fears I have of what a TES MMORPG would adversely be.

At least actual Bethesda isn't mired down in this.  They probably have the luxury of standing back and watch other people sweat.

Originally posted by MadnessRealm

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Lol at the gw2 comments what we know so far of TESO, the game it has most in common with is....................gw2

No. TESO appears to be closer to DAoC's PvP (in TESO's case 3 Factions at war, which in itself is great) and WoW-like Dungeons (and Questing?). TESO does not offer any Dynamic features (no Radiant AI) and instead seems to offers the traditional classes (holy trinity) found in most MMORPGs. Doesn't sound like GW2 to me, admittedly, I didn't really bother to look into GW2 all that much but, from what I know TESO is nothing like it.

yeah teso sounds better PVP wise for not having the balanced obssesed wow kid server reset every 2 weeks.  The dungeons are open, so more like EQ.  The combat reminds me of GW2 from what they are saying, as does the wandering off and just encountering quests and open dungeons.  Also no quest hubs.  Also they have NO agro rules and they stated you dont need trinity to do the dungeons, it has healers but you don't need healers, it doesn't have tanks as such.