This is NOT an anti-bash "LEAVE ELDER SCROLLS ALONE!" thread.

What this thread is, is an intervention against people blaming Hero Engine for SWTOR, and subsequently saying TES will be a failure because of the Hero Engine IF all of that leaked information is actually "true".

The facts are that Bioware licensed the Hero Engine EVEN when they were told it wasn't even near completetion, and that more than 3/4ths of the code wasn't commented correctly for restructuring. 

Bioware took the UNFINISHED Hero Engine code and "made it their own" for what they needed and wanted. Essentially, they stripped it bare of MANY attributes that would have made it an open world game in favor of extensive instancing, linear questing, etc etc etc.

So there you go! Don't believe me? Google the information yourself. I'm not going to link ~50 site links where it's been beaten to death enough already. 

How good IS the "Hero Engine" then? I honestly don't know as I've not seen a "proper" representation of how strong the Hero Engine can be utilized. It could very well be a piece of crap. However, friends of mine who have poked around with the engine only have positive things to say about it, so there ya go.

Hero Engine, not SWTOR's fault. Bioware is SWTOR's fault. :)!

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Bioware took the UNFINISHED Hero Engine code and "made it their own" for what they needed and wanted. Essentially, they stripped it bare of MANY attributes that would have made it an open world game in favor of e

Which is exactly what Zenimax did.

They started developing this game in 2007.

The Hero engine is so bad it's can't support more than 8 v 8 in a battleground, what a fail engine.

Originally posted by spaceport

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Bioware took the UNFINISHED Hero Engine code and "made it their own" for what they needed and wanted. Essentially, they stripped it bare of MANY attributes that would have made it an open world game in favor of e

Which is exactly what Zenimax did.

They started developing this game in 2007.

Oops!  LOL!

Originally posted by Warmaker

Originally posted by spaceport

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Bioware took the UNFINISHED Hero Engine code and "made it their own" for what they needed and wanted. Essentially, they stripped it bare of MANY attributes that would have made it an open world game in favor of e

Which is exactly what Zenimax did.

They started developing this game in 2007.

Oops!  LOL!

Oh my, you're kidding O_o?

From everything I've read, TESO isn't a title that they're just starting to work on, or began maybe 2 years ago.  This thing has been brewing a while now.

Also, don't laugh when I say that I'm clinging tightly to my chest my pristine CDs of Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim.  I can't find my CD-ROM of Daggerfall.  Not since... 1998.

Originally posted by spaceport

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Bioware took the UNFINISHED Hero Engine code and "made it their own" for what they needed and wanted. Essentially, they stripped it bare of MANY attributes that would have made it an open world game in favor of e

Which is exactly what Zenimax did.

They started developing this game in 2007.

no you're wrong! zenimax was created in 2007 and they started planning for the game in 2008. developement probably started in 2009

Every game that is built on Hero Engine will be clones of eachothers when it comes to features, graphics and gameplay. Just like every game built on Unreal engine, they are all pretty much the exact same games with different lore and skin.

Here are examples of Unreal Engine 3 games that are basically clones of eachothers: Blade & Soul, Borderlands, Mass Effect Series, Mortal Kombat, TERA, Dungeon Defenders, Tom Hawk's pro skater, Zumba fitness. It's like playing the same game basically with different skin.

Obviously we are getting The Elder Republiccs just because of the engine choise. Btw help me decide should I play Borderlands or Zumba fitness, afterall they are so similar.

Yeah, I'll just wait for the final product, it's so stupid to see comments "I'll never buy a game with this engine blah blah" when the fact is that everyone who says so, will buy the game if it turns out to be good.

I can corroborate this. TESO is ZeniMax Online's raison d'etre, and they've been at it since ZeniMax Media fired the studio up in 07. 

I'll withold comments re: some of the folks I used to work with that have since gone over to Zeni. Heh.

Edit: You don't start from square one after the studio "gets settled". Proof of concept and requirements gathering surely started at ZM prior to ZM online. They likely didn't have too many elements built though.

"The company was built to specialize in the creation of an MMOG. In 2007 the company announced a partnership with Simutronics for the use of HeroEngine."

from- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZeniMax_Online_Studios

Sounds like they were already working with the Hero Engine in 2007

If it looks anything like SWOTOR it will be a complete failure. People are going to expect it to look like Skyrim, and if it doesn't it will be scorned and spit upon.

Originally posted by FreeBooteR

If it looks anything like SWOTOR it will be a complete failure. People are going to expect it to look like Skyrim, and if it doesn't it will be scorned and spit upon.

Looks like RIFT or LOTRO. Cant really tell

Could easily be SWTOR if you put a Glowbat where the sword is

Originally posted by Kuinn

Every game that is built on Hero Engine will be clones of eachothers when it comes to features, graphics and gameplay. Just like every game built on Unreal engine, they are all pretty much the exact same games with different lore and skin.

 

Here are examples of Unreal Engine 3 games that are basically clones of eachothers: Blade & Soul, Borderlands, Mass Effect Series, Mortal Kombat, TERA, Dungeon Defenders, Tom Hawk's pro skater, Zumba fitness. It's like playing the same game basically with different skin.

 

Obviously we are getting The Elder Republiccs just because of the engine choise. Btw help me decide should I play Borderlands or Zumba fitness, afterall they are so similar.

 

Yeah, I'll just wait for the final product, it's so stupid to see comments "I'll never buy a game with this engine blah blah" when the fact is that everyone who says so, will buy the game if it turns out to be good.

Here's the points of concern being brought up because of TESO being an "MMORPG" and utilizing the Hero Engine.

As has been pointed out, only 2 games have used the Hero Engine.  Some MMO that I've never even heard of, and then SWTOR.  SWTOR's limitations are made known now, and it was developed with alot of time and resources (esp. $$$).  And the end result is what's out there now for that game.

That's not exactly a good track record.

Secondly, because TESO is of course going the MMORPG route, most especially with Bethesda steering clear of this cruise ship, this game I feared long ago would be going the standard MMORPG route.  Themepark, Class + Levels, very guided progression and travelling.  Which is completely against what TES gaming in general has been all about since Daggerfall in 1996/1997.  The staple of TES gaming is freedom to do what you want, when you want, however you want.  The freedom to develop your character in whatever way you want.  There had never been a restrictive Class system before.  You were never forced to do a progression of quests, events, etc. to play the game.  In a TES game, you could ignore the main quest altogether and run around and do things, yet your gaming experience would never suffer.  To drop you in the game like a kid getting dropped off in a playground with Dad saying, "Have fun" and letting you run around doing what your imagination presented.

That's why there's alot of stink.  For me, the use of the Hero Engine, especially since the only noteworthy example using that engine is SWTOR, is of secondary concern.  Secondary to what the gameplay is already made known going to be like.  Engine limiations will be just secondary dagger strikes to the stomach.

Originally posted by Warmaker

Originally posted by Kuinn

Every game that is built on Hero Engine will be clones of eachothers when it comes to features, graphics and gameplay. Just like every game built on Unreal engine, they are all pretty much the exact same games with different lore and skin.

 

Here are examples of Unreal Engine 3 games that are basically clones of eachothers: Blade & Soul, Borderlands, Mass Effect Series, Mortal Kombat, TERA, Dungeon Defenders, Tom Hawk's pro skater, Zumba fitness. It's like playing the same game basically with different skin.

 

Obviously we are getting The Elder Republiccs just because of the engine choise. Btw help me decide should I play Borderlands or Zumba fitness, afterall they are so similar.

 

Yeah, I'll just wait for the final product, it's so stupid to see comments "I'll never buy a game with this engine blah blah" when the fact is that everyone who says so, will buy the game if it turns out to be good.

Here's the points of concern being brought up because of TESO being an "MMORPG" and utilizing the Hero Engine.

As has been pointed out, only 2 games have used the Hero Engine.  Some MMO that I've never even heard of, and then SWTOR.  SWTOR's limitations are made known now, and it was developed with alot of time and resources (esp. $$$).  And the end result is what's out there now for that game.

That's not exactly a good track record.

~ snipped non-engine talk ~

That's why there's alot of stink.  For me, the use of the Hero Engine, especially since the only noteworthy example using that engine is SWTOR, is of secondary concern.  Secondary to what the gameplay is already made known going to be like.  Engine limiations will be just secondary dagger strikes to the stomach.

I understand the non-engine related stuff you are bringing up, but lets stick with the engine here.

The track record indeed is nothing to brag about, but we have to remember that Bioware bought the engine, cut ties more or less to the original engine builders, broke it into pieces and then put back up their own version of it. We dont know how much they modified it, but it sounds like they turned it inside out.

Was it for worse and that's why TOR had all its problems? Or is the TOR team just incompetent? Both? I'm not sure so once again I'm not going to judge the engine or this game completely based on possibly very unrelated stuff because I dont know for sure what Bioware did to the engine, and based only on one title which might have an engine that is close to the TES hero engine only in name.

I dont like jumping into heavy conclusions based purely on feelings and assumptions with very little facts around. You could be right, it's possible that the engine is good for nothing no matter what you do with it, also the exact opposite is possible too at this point.