Originally posted by jtcgs

Originally posted by napalmninja

Originally posted by DSWBeef

Originally posted by napalmninja

Originally posted by DSWBeef

When i read that TESO was officially announced i was like "yay a sandbox set in the world of TES" What we have seen so far makes me cry. Theres really nothing special about it. Im sure people will buy it. But until something changes i see it no more as a cash grab. They are either lazy or just plain oblivious. IM DONE. I feel like we need to get our voice across. Becuase of this i made a Facebook cause. Elder Scrolls Online Betrayal Campaign

 

Join and let your voice be heard!

 

Reason for edit. To clarify my position. I do not think its a wow clone (that comment was out of anger and frustration) I only wish to have an TES mmo that the franchise deserves. I will admit when im wrong, i just did.

WHy shoudl i stand by and "deal with it" Just because you will? No i will actually stand up for my opinion and speak up.

You should deal with it because no matter how much outcry, no matter how much you protest it's not going to change. The game is practically finished and they aren't going to start over after about 6 years of work. Lifes too short to worry about things like this imo.

You basically just showed yourself as being the rainbow pony who needs a strong arm around you...those that speak up and try to do something about issues are the only ones that change the world.

You are being bent over and are just telling everyone its better to just relax...than turn around and deck the person forcing themselves on you. No wonder so many businesses no longer have any respect for the  consumer.

No I just choose what battles to take place in. I don't jump in to protest everything I hate or disagree with, but I will protest if the cause is strong enough and I know some change can be made. In this case it will do nothing but annoy those who are actually okay with the game being this way.

Originally posted by napalmninja

No I just choose what battles to take place in. I don't jump in to protest everything I hate or disagree with, but I will protest if the cause is strong enough and I know some change can be made. In this case it will do nothing but annoy those who are actually okay with the game being this way.

I chose not to protest Hitler just because I hated and disagreed with him, I knew nothing would come out of it because he had the army and government under his control...besides, it just would have annoyed those that actually was okay with what he was doing.

I voice my opinion no matter how many people may disagree with me...I dont live for others, I dont live to be accepted by others and I dont expect people to just pretend everything fits into their world view.

Voice your freaking opinion and dont be silent because of others.

Originally posted by Chrome1980

*snip*

 

Doomer and gloomers have striked way too early this time. Hard to say if TESO essence has been captured on not when game is not even playable right now. Moreover, 'the essence' is matter of prespective. For me the essence of TES is in non linear world design which we are getting with TESO.

For other it might be different. Stop trying to project your own idea of what is essence of TES on others. You say you are not a fan of TES and i can only imagine the rant if you were a fan.

Let me break it down for you boo.

In the first sentence, you say people are complaining too early because we do not know whether TESO captures the essence of TES.

In the following sentences, you say you are satisified because we know that TESO captures the essence of TES.

Do you comprehend, or do we need to just get your mom to tuck you into bed?

Originally posted by Spiider

Star Trek

Star Wars

Lor of The Rings

Dungeons and Dragons

 

Why would Elder Scrolls be any different?

 

It's about making money and not about making good games. Gaming companies are led by accountants and not by creative people.

Its not going to be.

It will be yet another Shallow, Linear, Derivative Themepark MMO

Thats all these "AAA" Game Developement Companies do any more.

I believe thats because they dont have the talent or skill to develop something better.

ITS TOO HARD!

Originally posted by jtcgs

Originally posted by napalmninja

No I just choose what battles to take place in. I don't jump in to protest everything I hate or disagree with, but I will protest if the cause is strong enough and I know some change can be made. In this case it will do nothing but annoy those who are actually okay with the game being this way.

I chose not to protest Hitler just because I hated and disagreed with him, I knew nothing would come out of it because he had the army and government under his control...besides, it just would have annoyed those that actually was okay with what he was doing.

I voice my opinion no matter how many people may disagree with me...I dont live for others, I dont live to be accepted by others and I dont expect people to just pretend everything fits into their world view.

Voice your freaking opinion and dont be silent because of others.

If this were a major world issue I would agree with you. This issue isn't massive scale genocide however, its just a game being released amongst thousands of others. Hitler was like a school bully he needed to be stood up to, but this isn't like that. You aren't trying to change the world by standing up against this game. It's just a game, a form of art, and if the artist wants to change how it looks, no matter how perfect it may be, he has every right to do so.

They have at least a full year ahead till release. I hope the community's backlash has forced them to go back to the drawing board. THe information leaked was little, but pretty adamant in certain key FAIL features leaving no room for any doubt. If this releases like generic MMO #346, it is going to fail hard and everyone will be unhappy; Zenimax for throwing a couple hundred millions down the gutter, and the players for not getting a game worth playing. So they still have time to save whatever they can.

Originally posted by napalmninja

Originally posted by jtcgs

Originally posted by napalmninja

No I just choose what battles to take place in. I don't jump in to protest everything I hate or disagree with, but I will protest if the cause is strong enough and I know some change can be made. In this case it will do nothing but annoy those who are actually okay with the game being this way.

I chose not to protest Hitler just because I hated and disagreed with him, I knew nothing would come out of it because he had the army and government under his control...besides, it just would have annoyed those that actually was okay with what he was doing.

I voice my opinion no matter how many people may disagree with me...I dont live for others, I dont live to be accepted by others and I dont expect people to just pretend everything fits into their world view.

Voice your freaking opinion and dont be silent because of others.

If this were a major world issue I would agree with you. This issue isn't massive scale genocide however, its just a game being released amongst thousands of others. Hitler was like a school bully he needed to be stood up to, but this isn't like that. You aren't trying to change the world by standing up against this game. It's just a game, a form of art, and if the artist wants to change how it looks, no matter how perfect it may be, he has every right to do so.

I am not the least bit surprised that the point was going to be avoided and excuses were going to be made.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Lucioon

Bethesda really have to thread carefully, consumers are getting smarter to not fall into the brands = good buys anymore. And with another few years of development in TESO, I really hope they go back to the drawing board and think really hard on what made The Elder Scroll Popular in the first place.

Thing is it's not bethesda creating this game. It's someone else, within the same overall organization. That's a bit different than slapping the Bioware name on a bunch of different studios and releasing games under that banner that are not recieved well by certain people.

Bethesda's wording has been "we don't want to do an MMO", and they're still not doing an MMO. TES will live or die by Bethesda not by a side project featuring the license, as it should be

I don't know Distopia, people associate TES with Bethesda, they -will- be associated with this game as proven by the people here on this site that think they are making it.

And people -will- associate it with the singleplayer TES games, no doubt about that.

Damage will be done to the IP.

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Lucioon

Bethesda really have to thread carefully, consumers are getting smarter to not fall into the brands = good buys anymore. And with another few years of development in TESO, I really hope they go back to the drawing board and think really hard on what made The Elder Scroll Popular in the first place.

Thing is it's not bethesda creating this game. It's someone else, within the same overall organization. That's a bit different than slapping the Bioware name on a bunch of different studios and releasing games under that banner that are not recieved well by certain people.

Bethesda's wording has been "we don't want to do an MMO", and they're still not doing an MMO. TES will live or die by Bethesda not by a side project featuring the license, as it should be

I don't know Distopia, people associate TES with Bethesda, they -will- be associated with this game as proven by the people here on this site that think they are making it.

And people -will- associate it with the singleplayer TES games, no doubt about that.

Damage will be done to the IP.

You mean ignorant people will associate it with Bethesda and their games.

---

Originally posted by AdamTM

I don't know Distopia, people associate TES with Bethesda, they -will- be associated with this game as proven by the people here on this site that think they are making it.
And people -will- associate it with the singleplayer TES games, no doubt about that.
Damage will be done to the IP.

---

You can't really protect yourself from ignorance and stupidity of human kind.

Originally posted by jtcgs

Originally posted by napalmninja

Originally posted by jtcgs

Originally posted by napalmninja

No I just choose what battles to take place in. I don't jump in to protest everything I hate or disagree with, but I will protest if the cause is strong enough and I know some change can be made. In this case it will do nothing but annoy those who are actually okay with the game being this way.

I chose not to protest Hitler just because I hated and disagreed with him, I knew nothing would come out of it because he had the army and government under his control...besides, it just would have annoyed those that actually was okay with what he was doing.

I voice my opinion no matter how many people may disagree with me...I dont live for others, I dont live to be accepted by others and I dont expect people to just pretend everything fits into their world view.

Voice your freaking opinion and dont be silent because of others.

If this were a major world issue I would agree with you. This issue isn't massive scale genocide however, its just a game being released amongst thousands of others. Hitler was like a school bully he needed to be stood up to, but this isn't like that. You aren't trying to change the world by standing up against this game. It's just a game, a form of art, and if the artist wants to change how it looks, no matter how perfect it may be, he has every right to do so.

 

I am not the least bit surprised that the point was going to be avoided and excuses were going to be made.

What was your point exactly? That you have an opinion and you like to voice it very loudly? I agree your entitled to your opinion, but until we have tried the game for ourselves your opinion and my opinion are moot and going back and forth  about whose right is just a fools game.

Originally posted by Lucioon

Originally posted by dzoni87

OP, you are fighting windlmills here. Millions will still buy it, only because it have written "The Elder Scrolls" over it. The same case as for Blizzard games. They built up their glory and now they can live 20 years out of it. Nowadays, people may buy graphically updated version of 'E.T.' for Atari 2600 if it have label "Blizzard" or "Bethesda" over it.

Dont get me wrong, i enjoyed both 'single player' TES games and 'old' Blizzard games, but i find D3, SC2 and... sigh... new Elder Scrolls to be easy money grabs. As an economist i understand both of Development teams, but as a gaming fan, i am astronomically pissed-off.

It only takes 1 or 2 games to ruin a brand.

BIOWARE used to be a brand in my opinion of a great RPG maker, they can make no wrong. The Old Republic, Mass Effect, Dragon Age are just the three biggest games known through them. Then you got SWTOR, ME3, DA2

Will I buy Bioware games because its Bioware games now?? nope, first day purchases are no longer viable for this company anymore, their lack of customer support, and their current track record shows me as a consumer to be careful of their future products.

Blizzard is also getting some bad press for not upgrading their games, its not as strong an reaction because they didn't change the formula that made those games popular. SC2 played pretty much just like SC1 only with updated graphics , and Diablo 3 is pretty much a reskinned Diablo 2 with a new color swap. But it will still be popular because it will play just like what everyone remembers.

Bethesda really have to thread carefully, consumers are getting smarter to not fall into the brands = good buys anymore. And with another few years of development in TESO, I really hope they go back to the drawing board and think really hard on what made The Elder Scroll Popular in the first place.

I don't anything to suggest that mmorpg consumers are smarter than before.  They used to play games and have fun, now they have lists of game feature likes and dislikes that only serves to take away from their enjoyment.  With the move to cash shops, I wonder if that is really smarter.  In general, I think people are taking games way too seriously too enjoy them.

I

Originally posted by zevni78

OK, Once and for all.

 

To all who defend this game.

 

This is not about the game being bad or good, its doesn’t matter

 

It will not be the mmo Elder Scrolls fans wanted.

 

It’s that simple, please understand and respect that, instead of splitting hairs about the definition of "sandbox" or listing the game features you like, or labelling people understandablely disappointed as irrational fanbois.

 

I am no TES fan, but I know a farmed out attempt to miss-label something when i see one.

 

 

As to whether it’s a WoW clone, (based on it being referenced in the leaked source not its features) or the next SWTOR, or GW2, or Daoc 2, notice that the games that we are not comparing it to are the Elder Scrolls.

 

 I can get behind this.  If the leak is true, this is very much what people should be considering; not if the game itself is good or bad.

You can't tell people that you're finally making "the ES mmo the fans have always wanted", because the fans have always wanted Morrowind with online play, and that's clearly not what the leak describes.  GW2 or DAoC are nothing like the ES, and an ES game like that could be great, but it's not what the fans have always wanted.

And why would anyone not think of the game described in the leak as a wow clone?  Every page in the leak mentiions world of warcraft.  Everytime they describe a feature they say world of warcraft to explain how it'll work.  The words "world of warcraft" are used more then the words "elder scrolls".  It goes so far as to say that certain things will work exactly like they do in WoW.  Phasing?  It said it's going to function just like it does in WoW, and that you'll see parts of the world diffierently then other people, and won't be able to interact with someone who is in a diffierent phase of from you, but you'll be able to have a friend do a quest in a diffirent phase; which wow doesn't. 

If I make a product, and I have to repeatedly tell you that my product will work like another companies product, why would I not believe you'd come to the conclusion that my product is just a clone of that other companies product.  After all, I told you it's going to work just like that other product.

12 million peole purchased skyrim, plus all the millions of copies of all the other ES games.  Why would I need TESO to play like WoW in order to understand it? 

No one is a fan of the words Elder scrolls, we're fans of the gameplay in the ES series.  If you don't make an ES game with an online companent then it's not an ES MMO for the fans.  It's just an MMO with the ES name, trying to get it's share of WoW fans. 

I don't beleive the leak, but anything's possible when you put a lawyer in charage of a company.

Originally posted by DSWBeef

 They are either lazy or just plain oblivious

My exact sentiments about the OP.

Maybe it's a little premature for something like this.  The game isn't even out yet.  Let them make the game they want and let the chips fall where they may.  If it's a worthwhile effort they will be rewarded, if not their sales and retention will be as mediocre as their offering.  I'm let down by what they have said so far, but I think I'll just take a wait and see attitude.  

It wouldn't surprise me at all if a large corporation threw 100 million dollars at their game and came up with garbage as I think that strategy is trending right now (see SWTOR).  We seem to have moved beyond the creative, innovative stage of mmo development.  Now we are into the multiple forumulaic iteration phase.

I think it's probably too late to make the kind of changes to the game that people want from a TESO game.  We'll just have to watch to see how things develop.  But I think fans of the IP have every right to be vocal about how they feel the direction of the game is going, because it's the fans that bought the games and made the IP worth something.

Originally posted by waynejr2

Originally posted by Lucioon

Originally posted by dzoni87

OP, you are fighting windlmills here. Millions will still buy it, only because it have written "The Elder Scrolls" over it. The same case as for Blizzard games. They built up their glory and now they can live 20 years out of it. Nowadays, people may buy graphically updated version of 'E.T.' for Atari 2600 if it have label "Blizzard" or "Bethesda" over it.

Dont get me wrong, i enjoyed both 'single player' TES games and 'old' Blizzard games, but i find D3, SC2 and... sigh... new Elder Scrolls to be easy money grabs. As an economist i understand both of Development teams, but as a gaming fan, i am astronomically pissed-off.

It only takes 1 or 2 games to ruin a brand.

BIOWARE used to be a brand in my opinion of a great RPG maker, they can make no wrong. The Old Republic, Mass Effect, Dragon Age are just the three biggest games known through them. Then you got SWTOR, ME3, DA2

Will I buy Bioware games because its Bioware games now?? nope, first day purchases are no longer viable for this company anymore, their lack of customer support, and their current track record shows me as a consumer to be careful of their future products.

Blizzard is also getting some bad press for not upgrading their games, its not as strong an reaction because they didn't change the formula that made those games popular. SC2 played pretty much just like SC1 only with updated graphics , and Diablo 3 is pretty much a reskinned Diablo 2 with a new color swap. But it will still be popular because it will play just like what everyone remembers.

Bethesda really have to thread carefully, consumers are getting smarter to not fall into the brands = good buys anymore. And with another few years of development in TESO, I really hope they go back to the drawing board and think really hard on what made The Elder Scroll Popular in the first place.

I don't anything to suggest that mmorpg consumers are smarter than before.  They used to play games and have fun, now they have lists of game feature likes and dislikes that only serves to take away from their enjoyment.  With the move to cash shops, I wonder if that is really smarter.  In general, I think people are taking games way too seriously too enjoy them.

I

See, that's where the problem lies. People are just getting sick and tired of playing the same retreaded game with a different name and skin. Anyone that has played the TES singelplayer games associate a huge open game world that has sandbox elements and not some level based, raid and dungeon running themepark.

Why change and remove the elements that so many people love about the game, just because your moving into the mmorpg genre. This is the core reason why people are pissed off. Wouldn't it be much smarter to incorporate as many elements that people expect to be in a ES game and not follow every other dev company and make a clone of another clone of yet another clone.

Tab targetting combat.

Third person view

5 skills

Factions based on race

No housing because it's "too difficult"

Yeah it's not an Elder Scrolls Game

See Tera for action combat

ArcheAge has housing

Oh but they do have the game fully voiced over...

What a joke, next thing we know we are going to have an Age of Empires FPS, and it would still be good for some people on this thread.

Originally posted by revy66

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Lucioon

Bethesda really have to thread carefully, consumers are getting smarter to not fall into the brands = good buys anymore. And with another few years of development in TESO, I really hope they go back to the drawing board and think really hard on what made The Elder Scroll Popular in the first place.

Thing is it's not bethesda creating this game. It's someone else, within the same overall organization. That's a bit different than slapping the Bioware name on a bunch of different studios and releasing games under that banner that are not recieved well by certain people.

Bethesda's wording has been "we don't want to do an MMO", and they're still not doing an MMO. TES will live or die by Bethesda not by a side project featuring the license, as it should be

I don't know Distopia, people associate TES with Bethesda, they -will- be associated with this game as proven by the people here on this site that think they are making it.

And people -will- associate it with the singleplayer TES games, no doubt about that.

Damage will be done to the IP.

You mean ignorant people will associate it with Bethesda and their games.

Its true, people who accociate a series that goes back more than 10 years and 5 games to the company that made them all are ignorant...no really. really they are. I said the same thing about Diablo 3...why would anyone assume its the same company that made the others...or WoW, why would that be made by the same company as Warcraft?

Why WOULD anyone think a game, with the name of a series of other games, expect any tie at all to them...

I think this game is too Far Along for this crusade to have any effect.

It didn't work on Diablo 3.  I don't think it will work here.

That being said... I couldn't be more sickened by what Zenimax Online have done with this game so far.  Its... disgusting.

Originally posted by Uhwop

And why would anyone not think of the game described in the leak as a wow clone?  Every page in the leak mentiions world of warcraft.  Everytime they describe a feature they say world of warcraft to explain how it'll work.  The words "world of warcraft" are used more then the words "elder scrolls".  It goes so far as to say that certain things will work exactly like they do in WoW.  Phasing?  It said it's going to function just like it does in WoW, and that you'll see parts of the world diffierently then other people, and won't be able to interact with someone who is in a diffierent phase of from you, but you'll be able to have a friend do a quest in a diffirent phase; which wow doesn't. 

If I make a product, and I have to repeatedly tell you that my product will work like another companies product, why would I not believe you'd come to the conclusion that my product is just a clone of that other companies product.  After all, I told you it's going to work just like that other product.

 

I've just reread the 'leaked' article and all the mentions of WoW and SW:TOR have been by the journalist explaining his perception of the concept, not once does Firor mention WoW. The journalist (Adam Biessener) also seems to have a limited MMO background to draw on for examples, his 'about me' (admittidly from 2009) mentions WoW as his only MMO and further stalking only reveals mention of playing SW:TOR.

My point, the only person who has likened 'aspects' of it to WoW is Adam and he appears to be using wow to explain his understanding of the concepts, nothing more.

P.S. its far from every page that mentions WoW, in fact its 3 out of 18 pages that do!